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Thread: Animals Have First Rights of Creation

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
    Yes but I would have to take you back to Ecclesiastes and explain to you his thinking and how he was wrong in his questions, then take you to 1st Kings chapter 1. Humans have a body(breath- spirit) and soul. Animals have a body and breath. They go back to the earth and we have a eternal soul. You would have to read both chapters to understand.
    Humans and animals both are the same. We are animals. Watch the news for 10 minutes and it's obvious.
    I know this for certain- when I die, my body will be burnt or dissolved. Either way, it will take on a form I would not recognize as myself. Likewise, even my body now is made up entirely of elements from breathing, eating, and drinking, none of which are myself until they have contributed to my form. Some people think I will return to the earth when I die, but actually, I am not separated from it now. Stop eating, drinking, and breathing for awhile and experience reality directly. Animals are no different.
    The distinctions we try to make is consciousness, or a "soul", and being able to have feelings and perceptions of right and wrong.
    Consciousness could simply be the perception we are taught from birth. There is a "self" and a world outside that self. No distinction exists in reality. It is a complete fabrication of our mind. We were probably meant to grow beyond such a crude perception of being separated from reality. Much like that one person we all probably know who is 40 and still acts like they are in high school, worried about what others are wearing, trying to be cool, and to fit in. When we see it plainly, we realize we are not separate from anything. Consciousness based on a wholly egotistical perspective is more like a mental illness. And animals have consciousness. They are aware of their self and surroundings just like we are.
    We have feelings, or emotions. We have classified them as pleasant and unpleasant. Animals have emotions too. And they are pleasant and unpleasant for them also.
    We have established morality amongst ourselves. But this is no surprise. Once we start living in a non-egotistical world, we start to see things through other's eyes. This makes us want to treat others like we would want to be treated. Our system of law and justice is based on this morality. Animals have this too. They are hierarchical, with a societal structure that can only come from morality. Different animals have, by nature, different morality, and thus, different social structures. But so do human beings from different cultures and environments.
    I would say there is only one difference between animals and humans, and it is based on a book created by the Early Catholic church at the behest of a Roman emperor who sought to become the bridge between his citizens and God, and control the gates to "heaven" based on how obedient the citizens were to his authority.
    And the question of where do animals go when they die? That is based upon the supposition that there is anything called "death". As I laid out earlier, I am made up of entirely non-self elements. All of these elements together make my body. These elements have been in this universe for a very long time. They have been in many forms. They constantly leave my form and take up others. They were here billions of years before my form, and will remain for billions more after my form seems to vanish. Nothing is ever destroyed or eliminated from the universe. Nothing just "vanishes". Likewise, nothing is ever just "created" out of nothing. Things are created out of other things. Death is not real, it is a mental concept we have to explain a change of forms. Likewise, birth is only a mental construct. Everything I am has existed before the universe came to be. I have not come from anywhere specific, nor will I go anywhere.
    The people of the present are easy to spot all around us. Can you also see the people from the remote past and future around you right now?
    If there is no birth and death, then there is no heaven and hell. And if that is true, then both people and animals go to the same place when they die. Ironically, it's the same place we are when we're alive.
    I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis

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  3. #52
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    It's easier to explain to a believer than a none believer. I could have shown scripture after scripture and compared scripture to prove what He was saying but if one doesn't believe it does no good. Humans are not animals. In the History of the Bible ones who exalted animals to humans were a wicked generation

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    Quote Originally Posted by ODB View Post
    I don't like it, but that's been my understanding. I've not seen it confirmed or denied in the Bible though. But because we (humans) were given the ability to reason, make intelligent (subjective) and moral decisions, whereas animals can't, they can't choose to believe or disbelieve in God.
    I don't think the requirement to believe is on creatures that cannot reason. Only those creatures that can reason and have been given free will.

    You have to have both- free will, and the ability to reason. Then those who knowingly reject, are cast down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    Food for thought, it is also said by religious people that the earth is only 6K years old. But science says it is billions of years old. Also keep in mind the bible is heavily edited and many things were omitted and added. So you should relax just a bit..... You cannot know if it is the 100% truth. None of us knows. I felt I was being really reasonable. I think we can respect each others opinions without getting so serious.
    Where in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old (or 8000 if you take into account BC and AD)?

    Who knows what a year was in reference too. If each year in human terms in 1000 years in God's terms, then those 600,000 and 800,000 fit what we find about human history.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioGod View Post
    Humans and animals both are the same. We are animals. Watch the news for 10 minutes and it's obvious.
    I know this for certain- when I die, my body will be burnt or dissolved. Either way, it will take on a form I would not recognize as myself. Likewise, even my body now is made up entirely of elements from breathing, eating, and drinking, none of which are myself until they have contributed to my form. Some people think I will return to the earth when I die, but actually, I am not separated from it now. Stop eating, drinking, and breathing for awhile and experience reality directly. Animals are no different.
    The distinctions we try to make is consciousness, or a "soul", and being able to have feelings and perceptions of right and wrong.
    Consciousness could simply be the perception we are taught from birth. There is a "self" and a world outside that self. No distinction exists in reality. It is a complete fabrication of our mind. We were probably meant to grow beyond such a crude perception of being separated from reality. Much like that one person we all probably know who is 40 and still acts like they are in high school, worried about what others are wearing, trying to be cool, and to fit in. When we see it plainly, we realize we are not separate from anything. Consciousness based on a wholly egotistical perspective is more like a mental illness. And animals have consciousness. They are aware of their self and surroundings just like we are.
    We have feelings, or emotions. We have classified them as pleasant and unpleasant. Animals have emotions too. And they are pleasant and unpleasant for them also.
    We have established morality amongst ourselves. But this is no surprise. Once we start living in a non-egotistical world, we start to see things through other's eyes. This makes us want to treat others like we would want to be treated. Our system of law and justice is based on this morality. Animals have this too. They are hierarchical, with a societal structure that can only come from morality. Different animals have, by nature, different morality, and thus, different social structures. But so do human beings from different cultures and environments.
    I would say there is only one difference between animals and humans, and it is based on a book created by the Early Catholic church at the behest of a Roman emperor who sought to become the bridge between his citizens and God, and control the gates to "heaven" based on how obedient the citizens were to his authority.
    And the question of where do animals go when they die? That is based upon the supposition that there is anything called "death". As I laid out earlier, I am made up of entirely non-self elements. All of these elements together make my body. These elements have been in this universe for a very long time. They have been in many forms. They constantly leave my form and take up others. They were here billions of years before my form, and will remain for billions more after my form seems to vanish. Nothing is ever destroyed or eliminated from the universe. Nothing just "vanishes". Likewise, nothing is ever just "created" out of nothing. Things are created out of other things. Death is not real, it is a mental concept we have to explain a change of forms. Likewise, birth is only a mental construct. Everything I am has existed before the universe came to be. I have not come from anywhere specific, nor will I go anywhere.
    The people of the present are easy to spot all around us. Can you also see the people from the remote past and future around you right now?
    If there is no birth and death, then there is no heaven and hell. And if that is true, then both people and animals go to the same place when they die. Ironically, it's the same place we are when we're alive.
    I believe animals are not gone when they die, but there is still a difference between man and animals here in this existence. Man can reason and make moral decisions. Animals can't do that.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Animals can't seek God, they don't pray. They don't make decisions to believe on Him or not. There is a big difference between God and man. Man is made in His image.

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    Plant farms and animal sanctuaries with just compensation: Genesis 1:29-30, 2-3, Lev. 24:18-22, Psalm 50, Isaiah 1, 11:6-9, 65, 66, Daniel 1, Hosea 2:18, Revelation 20-22.

    Creation of horses: Zechariah 6:1-8, 14:20. Wild Horses, burros persecuted, parted out in violation of Public Law 92-195:
    https://twitter.com/WildHorseEdu

    Jesus was a Vegetarian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6J6jh1Dzo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Where in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old (or 8000 if you take into account BC and AD)?

    Who knows what a year was in reference too. If each year in human terms in 1000 years in God's terms, then those 600,000 and 800,000 fit what we find about human history.
    I never said that it says that in the bible. Read it again, I said religious people say it. Why would you nit pick that comment, it is well known that many religious people believe that? https://rcg.org/realtruth/articles/0...6-science.html Here is another https://answersingenesis.org/evidenc...f-young-earth/
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I never said that it says that in the bible. Read it again, I said religious people say it. Why would you nit pick that comment, it is well known that many religious people believe that? https://rcg.org/realtruth/articles/0...6-science.html Here is another https://answersingenesis.org/evidenc...f-young-earth/
    I was just wondering the source of it. I realize a small number of Christians believe it.
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    5 generations past Noah they are still debating as to whether God causes all the calamity He causes just because He is God.
    Plant farms and animal sanctuaries with just compensation: Genesis 1:29-30, 2-3, Lev. 24:18-22, Psalm 50, Isaiah 1, 11:6-9, 65, 66, Daniel 1, Hosea 2:18, Revelation 20-22.

    Creation of horses: Zechariah 6:1-8, 14:20. Wild Horses, burros persecuted, parted out in violation of Public Law 92-195:
    https://twitter.com/WildHorseEdu

    Jesus was a Vegetarian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6J6jh1Dzo

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