Are religions, our tribes within tribes, now redundant and a costly moral and financi

[Gnostic]

Are religions, our tribes within tribes, now redundant and a costly moral and financial burden.

Governments create laws for us, and some think some Gods do as well. Most countries are following their secular government laws while ignoring religious laws.

I think religions, our tribes within tribes, are now redundant, and a costly moral and financial burden. Like it or not, the state is now our real Gods. We follow state laws.

I like that, given that secular law is rather more moral than the laws of the supernatural Gods.

Those Gods like and use all kinds of evils against their powerless creations. They kill us with frivolous cause when they can just as easily cure, --- when they are not asking us to hate our LGBTQ children, --- and devalue the souls of women, --- just for the hell of it.

Nice that most states do not allow that evil to go too far within its borders.

Governments should raise the bar of goodness for religions though. They are getting way too loony in the far Qanon riddled right wing.

Religions promote that we trust our governments as they are there by the will of God.

Religions then proceed to preach for laws that are well below the standards of good governance and what the states have put into place.

The states that allow this are not doing their duty of having the secular law preached by those tax exempt professional con men and liars who run the religion.

If religions are so corrupt to not recognize the better state ideology and law, they should not be allowed to preach it’s evil and inferior theology and laws.

Our children deserve better than what our God religions are giving them.

We pay them many hundreds of dollars yearly.

I am a religious person. My God is as real as all other Gods. He is redundant. That is why Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers for a better set of laws and rules to live by.

I think all the other Gods are redundant, regardless of the vast amount of good they gave us in the past.

I think they have become harmful to our Western societies.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

[Common Sense]

The belief and adherence to the concepts of Gods, deities and the supernatural, have historically been important foundations of law, social order and community. These beliefs have been used to throughout history to offer simplistic answers to complex questions, to unite communities, and even as a tool of control.

Religions and the laws they created, have been important foundations that society has built upon (and also fought over). However, as the age of reason, science and rationality began to disprove elements of religious dogma, it became clear that these beliefs weren’t infallible. In fact, they were deeply flawed. And despite the efforts of zealots and fundamentalists, laws and moral codes have largely replaced the belief in magic and myth, with reason and science.

And while people should be free to hold their own religious beliefs, they should have no influence on laws and government.

[Chris]

...

And while people should be free to hold their own religious beliefs, they should have no influence on laws and government.

What utter nonsense. Religious people do and should have just as much influence on laws and be represented and hold offices in government just as much as those who hold secular beliefs.

[Common Sense]

What utter nonsense. Religious people do and should have just as much influence on laws and be represented and hold offices in government just as much as those who hold secular beliefs.

Agreed. I misspoke.

Everyone should be free to participate in the democratic process. Regardless of their beliefs.

What I meant was, personal religious beliefs should not be codified into law, based on theology alone.

[Chris]

Agreed. I misspoke.

Everyone should be free to participate in the democratic process. Regardless of their beliefs.

What I meant was, personal religious beliefs should not be codified into law, based on theology alone.

You mean like laws against murder, theft, lying, and so on?

[Common Sense]

You mean like laws against murder, theft, lying, and so on?

Like I said, based on theology alone. Certainly there are basic laws that are described in both religious doctrine and secular laws. I haven’t suggested that a law or value should be dismissed simply because it is included in a religious code. But you already knew that.

[FindersKeepers]

Agreed. I misspoke.

Everyone should be free to participate in the democratic process. Regardless of their beliefs.

What I meant was, personal religious beliefs should not be codified into law, based on theology alone.

Great answer.

In the best case scenario--laws will be based on secular reasoning.

The problem lies in electing leaders who are enlightened enough to see past their own religious constraints in order to make truly beneficial choices for society.

Religions tout their own flavor of morality, but the highest morality exists outside of religious indoctrination. Religion provides a context for immoral behavior--usually in the form of immoral acts perpetrated against those of other religions. So, to be truly moral, laws must be secular in nature.

[Peter1469]

Secular reasoning is still informed by our religious past although secular humanist expend a lot of energy to hide this.

[Chris]

Like I said, based on theology alone. Certainly there are basic laws that are described in both religious doctrine and secular laws. I haven’t suggested that a law or value should be dismissed simply because it is included in a religious code. But you already knew that.

Those laws originate in religion alone. But you knew that. As you said earlier, you misspoke.

[FindersKeepers]

Like I said, based on theology alone. Certainly there are basic laws that are described in both religious doctrine and secular laws. I haven’t suggested that a law or value should be dismissed simply because it is included in a religious code. But you already knew that.

I agree. We had a similar discussion here a couple of months ago. Laws and morality do not need religion in order to develop. However, religion depends on an adherence to laws and z morals. That suggests secular laws predate religious laws.


The earliest laws were kind of like today's techie acronym' - IFTTT. Or, If this, then that. Like the Mesopotamian Code of Ur-Nammu. Those laws were like (paraphrase) If you steal from your neighbor -- you will be put to death. Stuff like that. Those types of laws were the basis of all ancient civilizations. Eventually, they worked religion into their laws and that's where it got a little screwy. They still kept a good deal of the earlier laws, but they added some oddities. Like the Aztecs with moral that idolized parents who offered up their children for sacrifice. Or, a more modern example--the Islamic law that does not allow insulting the Prophet.

So while religion plays a role in enforcing laws, it pretty much came after the fact.