User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: A libertarian paradise in…mexico?

  1. #1
    Points: 395,069, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 58.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    388317
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    133,074
    Points
    395,069
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    12,387
    Thanked 35,885x in 26,715 Posts
    Mentioned
    1581 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    A libertarian paradise in…mexico?

    Towns that secede.

    A LIBERTARIAN PARADISE IN…MEXICO?

    ...And it does seem that many so-called public goods actually can be handled by the market. I’ve written about private roads and private money, for instance, but the example that really caught my attention was the private, church-run city in Nigeria.

    And the New York Times has a fascinating story about similar developments in Mexico.
    Fifteen-foot stone turrets are staffed by men whose green uniforms belong to no official force. Beyond them, a statue of an avocado bears the inscription “avocado capital of the world.” And beyond the statue is Tancítaro, an island of safety and stability amid the most violent period in Mexico’s history. Local orchard owners, who export over $1 million in avocados per day, mostly to the United States, underwrite what has effectively become an independent city-state. Self-policing and self-governing, it is a sanctuary from drug cartels as well as from the Mexican state. …Tancítaro represents a quiet but telling trend in Mexico, where a handful of towns and cities are effectively seceding, partly or in whole. These are acts of desperation, revealing the degree to which Mexico’s police and politicians are seen as part of the threat.

    ...Anyhow, back to our story about de facto secession and privatization.
    …such enclaves…you will find a pattern. Each is a haven of relative safety amid violence, suggesting that their diagnosis of the problem was correct. …The central government has declined to reimpose control, the researchers believe, for fear of drawing attention to the town’s lesson that secession brings safety.

    Tancítaro is not the only example of a quasi-private town.
    Rather than ejecting institutions, Monterrey’s business elite quietly took them over… C.E.O.s would now oversee one of the most central functions of government. …they circumvented the bureaucracy and corruption that had bogged down other police reform efforts. Crime dropped citywide. Community leaders in poorer areas reported safer streets and renewed public trust… Monterrey’s experience offered still more evidence that in Mexico, violence is only a symptom; the real disease is in government. The corporate takeover worked as a sort of quarantine.

    Wow, who would have imagined the New York Times would ever have a story stating that “the real disease is in government.”

    Sadly, the story goes on to say traditional politicians are now regaining control in Monterrey, so the period of good governance is coming to an end.

    In an ideal world, the central government would allow towns to formally secede, and those towns could then contract to have private management. But that’ll never happen since politicians wouldn’t want real-world examples showing the superiority of markets over government....
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  2. #2
    Points: 231,677, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 48.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Common's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    319827
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    41,005
    Points
    231,677
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    14,638
    Thanked 21,873x in 14,694 Posts
    Mentioned
    795 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A bit off topic chris, about 2 yrs before I was retiring a good friend and Lt who was retireing in a week came in my office and handed me some pamphlets. It was about retirement communities in mexico, anyway I was stunned at how inexpensive it was. This was 1991 im sure prices are far higher now but you could live far above your means there than you could in the USA.

    For like 25 grand you could have a gorgeous villa with a sea view and a gardner/handyman and cleaning person and for a few bucks more a cook, we werent interested in living there but theres alot of american retirees living in mexico
    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it"



    George Orwell

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Common For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (01-18-2018)

  4. #3
    Points: 395,069, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 58.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    388317
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    133,074
    Points
    395,069
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    12,387
    Thanked 35,885x in 26,715 Posts
    Mentioned
    1581 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    A bit off topic chris, about 2 yrs before I was retiring a good friend and Lt who was retireing in a week came in my office and handed me some pamphlets. It was about retirement communities in mexico, anyway I was stunned at how inexpensive it was. This was 1991 im sure prices are far higher now but you could live far above your means there than you could in the USA.

    For like 25 grand you could have a gorgeous villa with a sea view and a gardner/handyman and cleaning person and for a few bucks more a cook, we werent interested in living there but theres alot of american retirees living in mexico
    There's couple people on the forum retired down there I believe. Do you remember mainecoons? He's down there. There it's beautiful and fairly inexpensive--otherwise why retire there!

    The places in the OP are more up in northern Mexico, I think, were drug cartels tend to run the government, thus these towns seceding.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Common (01-12-2018)

  6. #4
    Points: 26,401, Level: 39
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 549
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    VeteranTagger First Class25000 Experience PointsSocial
    waltky's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    5038
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    7,590
    Points
    26,401
    Level
    39
    Thanks Given
    1,568
    Thanked 1,515x in 1,209 Posts
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Exclamation

    Mexico too dangerous to visit...

    State Department Warns Americans Not To Travel To Five Mexican States
    January 11, 2018 - The highest-level alert cites deadly violence and widespread crime. The frequency of attacks has "limited the U.S. government's ability to provide emergency services to citizens."
    The U.S. State Department is warning Americans not to travel to five Mexican states, issuing a "do not travel" advisory. "Violent crime, such as homicide, kidnapping, carjacking, and robbery, is widespread," the State Department said in the notice Thursday. As a result, the department says the frequency of the attacks by criminal organizations in the states of Sinaloa, Colima, Michoacan, Guerrero and Tamaulipas has "limited the U.S. government's ability to provide emergency services to citizens in the states." And, in many cases, not even Mexican officials can do much to protect or prevent the widespread scourge of lawlessness against American travelers.


    Mexican journalist Javier Valdez lies on the street after he was shot dead in Sinaloa, Mexico, on May 15, 2017. The U.S. State Department is telling Americans to completely avoid five Mexican states because of rising crime and violence.

    Armed groups frequently maintain roadblocks in many areas of Guerrero. A number of Mexico's most violent criminal organizations are based in and operate out of Sinaloa. The streets of Tamualipas are often the scene of gang-led gun battles, while armed criminal groups target public and private passenger buses, often taking passengers hostage and demanding ransom payments. But not all parts of Mexico are covered under the warning. Sixteen of the country's 32 states received a level-two "exercise caution" warning, the department's second-lowest advisory. Citizens were told to "reconsider travel" to another 11 states.

    Mexico reached record levels of deadly violence in 2017, making it the bloodiest year in the country's modern history, notes The Guardian. The first 11 months of the year brought 23,101 murder investigations, surpassing the 22,409 registered in the whole of 2011, when the country was in the depths of rampant inter-cartel warfare, says Business Insider. And as NPR's Carrie Kahn reports, outside of global conflict zones, Mexico takes the No. 1 spot for journalists murdered in 2017. The Paris-based Reporters Without Borders says Mexico is the "Western Hemisphere's deadliest country for the media."

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mexican-states

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to waltky For This Useful Post:

    Dr. Strangelove (01-12-2018)

  8. #5
    Points: 128,445, Level: 86
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 805
    Overall activity: 88.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranOverdrive
    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    248774
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Bremerton Washington or Sayulita Mexico depending on the time of year.
    Posts
    56,442
    Points
    128,445
    Level
    86
    Thanks Given
    6,545
    Thanked 17,734x in 13,592 Posts
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    There's couple people on the forum retired down there I believe. Do you remember mainecoons? He's down there. There it's beautiful and fairly inexpensive--otherwise why retire there!

    The places in the OP are more up in northern Mexico, I think, were drug cartels tend to run the government, thus these towns seceding.

    It was Maineman. Both him and I relocated to Mexico. Him on the Caribbean coast and me on the Pacific coast. I just winter in Mexico.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tahuyaman For This Useful Post:

    Chris (01-18-2018),waltky (01-19-2018)

  10. #6
    Points: 395,069, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 58.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    388317
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    133,074
    Points
    395,069
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    12,387
    Thanked 35,885x in 26,715 Posts
    Mentioned
    1581 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    It was Maineman. Both him and I relocated to Mexico. Him on the Caribbean coast and me on the Pacific coast. I just winter in Mexico.
    It was mainecoons too, though I think he retired to a more central area, iirc, sourrounded by mountains, with a lake, all I can remember. He's been down there for a couple decades.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    waltky (01-19-2018)

  12. #7
    Points: 81,005, Level: 69
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 1,445
    Overall activity: 100.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveSocial50000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Frequent Poster
    resister's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    153574
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Arcadia Fl
    Posts
    28,595
    Points
    81,005
    Level
    69
    Thanks Given
    22,348
    Thanked 9,555x in 7,257 Posts
    Mentioned
    252 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    It was Maineman. Both him and I relocated to Mexico. Him on the Caribbean coast and me on the Pacific coast. I just winter in Mexico.
    Patrick too.
    I believe in the Sun, even at night. I believe in love, even when I am alone. I believe in God, even when He is silent. (Especially , then)Report illegal aliens, call ICE @ 1-866-DHS-2ICE (347-2423)



  13. The Following User Says Thank You to resister For This Useful Post:

    waltky (01-19-2018)

  14. #8
    Points: 128,445, Level: 86
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 805
    Overall activity: 88.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranOverdrive
    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    248774
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Bremerton Washington or Sayulita Mexico depending on the time of year.
    Posts
    56,442
    Points
    128,445
    Level
    86
    Thanks Given
    6,545
    Thanked 17,734x in 13,592 Posts
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It was mainecoons too, though I think he retired to a more central area, iirc, sourrounded by mountains, with a lake, all I can remember. He's been down there for a couple decades.
    . Well, that's of no issue to me.

    The Mexican state I live in has been listed on a travel advisory once or maybe twice in the past. I ignore them. I have never once witnessed any violent act here. Not even a simple bar fight. It's safer here than it is in downtown Seattle.


    Once I saw an elderly drunk American tourist yelling at a girl who worked in our condominium complex. She just stood there politely listening to him scream and yell.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Tahuyaman For This Useful Post:

    waltky (01-19-2018)

  16. #9
    Points: 12,895, Level: 27
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 655
    Overall activity: 12.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience Points
    Agent Zero's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    18419
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,591
    Points
    12,895
    Level
    27
    Thanks Given
    992
    Thanked 584x in 472 Posts
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by resister View Post
    Patrick too.
    Patrick who?
    RECOMMENDATION FROM THE STATE DEPT FOR EMPLOYEES TO POST WHEN PARTICIPATING IN INTERNET FORUMS
    3. Recommending and Endorsing Others on Social Media. The Standards of Conduct permit employees to use social media to make such recommendations or endorsements in their personal capacity.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Agent Zero For This Useful Post:

    waltky (01-19-2018)

  18. #10
    Points: 128,445, Level: 86
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 805
    Overall activity: 88.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranOverdrive
    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    248774
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Bremerton Washington or Sayulita Mexico depending on the time of year.
    Posts
    56,442
    Points
    128,445
    Level
    86
    Thanks Given
    6,545
    Thanked 17,734x in 13,592 Posts
    Mentioned
    336 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    A bit off topic chris, about 2 yrs before I was retiring a good friend and Lt who was retireing in a week came in my office and handed me some pamphlets. It was about retirement communities in mexico, anyway I was stunned at how inexpensive it was. This was 1991 im sure prices are far higher now but you could live far above your means there than you could in the USA.

    For like 25 grand you could have a gorgeous villa with a sea view and a gardner/handyman and cleaning person and for a few bucks more a cook, we werent interested in living there but theres alot of american retirees living in mexico

    25K.... Not any more.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Tahuyaman For This Useful Post:

    waltky (01-19-2018)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Critical Acclaim
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO