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Thread: A libertarian paradise in…mexico?

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    A libertarian paradise in…mexico?

    Towns that secede.

    A LIBERTARIAN PARADISE IN…MEXICO?

    ...And it does seem that many so-called public goods actually can be handled by the market. I’ve written about private roads and private money, for instance, but the example that really caught my attention was the private, church-run city in Nigeria.

    And the New York Times has a fascinating story about similar developments in Mexico.
    Fifteen-foot stone turrets are staffed by men whose green uniforms belong to no official force. Beyond them, a statue of an avocado bears the inscription “avocado capital of the world.” And beyond the statue is Tancítaro, an island of safety and stability amid the most violent period in Mexico’s history. Local orchard owners, who export over $1 million in avocados per day, mostly to the United States, underwrite what has effectively become an independent city-state. Self-policing and self-governing, it is a sanctuary from drug cartels as well as from the Mexican state. …Tancítaro represents a quiet but telling trend in Mexico, where a handful of towns and cities are effectively seceding, partly or in whole. These are acts of desperation, revealing the degree to which Mexico’s police and politicians are seen as part of the threat.

    ...Anyhow, back to our story about de facto secession and privatization.
    …such enclaves…you will find a pattern. Each is a haven of relative safety amid violence, suggesting that their diagnosis of the problem was correct. …The central government has declined to reimpose control, the researchers believe, for fear of drawing attention to the town’s lesson that secession brings safety.

    Tancítaro is not the only example of a quasi-private town.
    Rather than ejecting institutions, Monterrey’s business elite quietly took them over… C.E.O.s would now oversee one of the most central functions of government. …they circumvented the bureaucracy and corruption that had bogged down other police reform efforts. Crime dropped citywide. Community leaders in poorer areas reported safer streets and renewed public trust… Monterrey’s experience offered still more evidence that in Mexico, violence is only a symptom; the real disease is in government. The corporate takeover worked as a sort of quarantine.

    Wow, who would have imagined the New York Times would ever have a story stating that “the real disease is in government.”

    Sadly, the story goes on to say traditional politicians are now regaining control in Monterrey, so the period of good governance is coming to an end.

    In an ideal world, the central government would allow towns to formally secede, and those towns could then contract to have private management. But that’ll never happen since politicians wouldn’t want real-world examples showing the superiority of markets over government....
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    A bit off topic chris, about 2 yrs before I was retiring a good friend and Lt who was retireing in a week came in my office and handed me some pamphlets. It was about retirement communities in mexico, anyway I was stunned at how inexpensive it was. This was 1991 im sure prices are far higher now but you could live far above your means there than you could in the USA.

    For like 25 grand you could have a gorgeous villa with a sea view and a gardner/handyman and cleaning person and for a few bucks more a cook, we werent interested in living there but theres alot of american retirees living in mexico
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

    GROUCHO MARX,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    A bit off topic chris, about 2 yrs before I was retiring a good friend and Lt who was retireing in a week came in my office and handed me some pamphlets. It was about retirement communities in mexico, anyway I was stunned at how inexpensive it was. This was 1991 im sure prices are far higher now but you could live far above your means there than you could in the USA.

    For like 25 grand you could have a gorgeous villa with a sea view and a gardner/handyman and cleaning person and for a few bucks more a cook, we werent interested in living there but theres alot of american retirees living in mexico
    There's couple people on the forum retired down there I believe. Do you remember mainecoons? He's down there. There it's beautiful and fairly inexpensive--otherwise why retire there!

    The places in the OP are more up in northern Mexico, I think, were drug cartels tend to run the government, thus these towns seceding.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Exclamation

    Mexico too dangerous to visit...

    State Department Warns Americans Not To Travel To Five Mexican States
    January 11, 2018 - The highest-level alert cites deadly violence and widespread crime. The frequency of attacks has "limited the U.S. government's ability to provide emergency services to citizens."
    The U.S. State Department is warning Americans not to travel to five Mexican states, issuing a "do not travel" advisory. "Violent crime, such as homicide, kidnapping, carjacking, and robbery, is widespread," the State Department said in the notice Thursday. As a result, the department says the frequency of the attacks by criminal organizations in the states of Sinaloa, Colima, Michoacan, Guerrero and Tamaulipas has "limited the U.S. government's ability to provide emergency services to citizens in the states." And, in many cases, not even Mexican officials can do much to protect or prevent the widespread scourge of lawlessness against American travelers.


    Mexican journalist Javier Valdez lies on the street after he was shot dead in Sinaloa, Mexico, on May 15, 2017. The U.S. State Department is telling Americans to completely avoid five Mexican states because of rising crime and violence.

    Armed groups frequently maintain roadblocks in many areas of Guerrero. A number of Mexico's most violent criminal organizations are based in and operate out of Sinaloa. The streets of Tamualipas are often the scene of gang-led gun battles, while armed criminal groups target public and private passenger buses, often taking passengers hostage and demanding ransom payments. But not all parts of Mexico are covered under the warning. Sixteen of the country's 32 states received a level-two "exercise caution" warning, the department's second-lowest advisory. Citizens were told to "reconsider travel" to another 11 states.

    Mexico reached record levels of deadly violence in 2017, making it the bloodiest year in the country's modern history, notes The Guardian. The first 11 months of the year brought 23,101 murder investigations, surpassing the 22,409 registered in the whole of 2011, when the country was in the depths of rampant inter-cartel warfare, says Business Insider. And as NPR's Carrie Kahn reports, outside of global conflict zones, Mexico takes the No. 1 spot for journalists murdered in 2017. The Paris-based Reporters Without Borders says Mexico is the "Western Hemisphere's deadliest country for the media."

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mexican-states

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    There's couple people on the forum retired down there I believe. Do you remember mainecoons? He's down there. There it's beautiful and fairly inexpensive--otherwise why retire there!

    The places in the OP are more up in northern Mexico, I think, were drug cartels tend to run the government, thus these towns seceding.

    It was Maineman. Both him and I relocated to Mexico. Him on the Caribbean coast and me on the Pacific coast. I just winter in Mexico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    It was Maineman. Both him and I relocated to Mexico. Him on the Caribbean coast and me on the Pacific coast. I just winter in Mexico.
    It was mainecoons too, though I think he retired to a more central area, iirc, sourrounded by mountains, with a lake, all I can remember. He's been down there for a couple decades.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    It was Maineman. Both him and I relocated to Mexico. Him on the Caribbean coast and me on the Pacific coast. I just winter in Mexico.
    Patrick too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It was mainecoons too, though I think he retired to a more central area, iirc, sourrounded by mountains, with a lake, all I can remember. He's been down there for a couple decades.
    . Well, that's of no issue to me.

    The Mexican state I live in has been listed on a travel advisory once or maybe twice in the past. I ignore them. I have never once witnessed any violent act here. Not even a simple bar fight. It's safer here than it is in downtown Seattle.


    Once I saw an elderly drunk American tourist yelling at a girl who worked in our condominium complex. She just stood there politely listening to him scream and yell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by resister View Post
    Patrick too.
    Patrick who?
    il·lib·er·ali(l)ˈlib(ə)rəladjective
    1.opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behavior.
    "illiberal and anti-democratic policies
    • synonyms: intolerant, narrow-minded, unenlightened, conservative, reactionary;
    • If I pulled my socks, they'd cave in over there. lulz


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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    A bit off topic chris, about 2 yrs before I was retiring a good friend and Lt who was retireing in a week came in my office and handed me some pamphlets. It was about retirement communities in mexico, anyway I was stunned at how inexpensive it was. This was 1991 im sure prices are far higher now but you could live far above your means there than you could in the USA.

    For like 25 grand you could have a gorgeous villa with a sea view and a gardner/handyman and cleaning person and for a few bucks more a cook, we werent interested in living there but theres alot of american retirees living in mexico

    25K.... Not any more.

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