The Alienist

[nathanbforrest45]

@Trish
I know you started a thread on this last week but I can't find it. I watched the program again tonight and still find it very dark in both setting and subject matter. I did do a little research on the sex trade in NYC during the time period of the program. In the Lower East Side (the Bowery, what is now Chinatown and between Fulton (the fish market) and Houston and Mulberry Sts it was quite prevalent and open. There were no laws against prostitution as such. However, for the established houses the cost was high and probably only the upper classes were steady clients. For example, I looked up a "typewriter's" wages (the occupation of Dakota Fanning. The average income was $35.00 per month or about $8.50 per week. As a female at the time she probably would have made less. The average "trick" for high class hookers was $5.00 or almost a week's income for what would be a mid level clerk's position. Now, there were "cheap tricks" but they were more likely to service you on the street, in an alley way.

Sadly, its also true that underage male prostitution was almost as prevalent as female.

And Teddy Roosevelt was Police Commissioner in 1894, the time of the program and he did make a point of cleaning up the police department as much as he could.

Anyway, thats the background of the program. As to its artistic merits I can only say Dakota Fanning as grown up quite a bit since her "War of the Worlds" role. For me, the jury is still out but I will watch it again next week. I will also say its somewhat PC in its treatment of homosexuality and race relations. Maybe NYC has always been open about the former but certainly not the latter since there were laws in NYC that required segregation and the races were forced to live in separate areas.

We shall see I suppose.

[Chris]

@Trish
I know you started a thread on this last week but I can't find it. I watched the program again tonight and still find it very dark in both setting and subject matter. I did do a little research on the sex trade in NYC during the time period of the program. In the Lower East Side (the Bowery, what is now Chinatown and between Fulton (the fish market) and Houston and Mulberry Sts it was quite prevalent and open. There were no laws against prostitution as such. However, for the established houses the cost was high and probably only the upper classes were steady clients. For example, I looked up a "typewriter's" wages (the occupation of Dakota Fanning. The average income was $35.00 per month or about $8.50 per week. As a female at the time she probably would have made less. The average "trick" for high class hookers was $5.00 or almost a week's income for what would be a mid level clerk's position. Now, there were "cheap tricks" but they were more likely to service you on the street, in an alley way.

Sadly, its also true that underage male prostitution was almost as prevalent as female.

And Teddy Roosevelt was Police Commissioner in 1894, the time of the program and he did make a point of cleaning up the police department as much as he could.

Anyway, thats the background of the program. As to its artistic merits I can only say Dakota Fanning as grown up quite a bit since her "War of the Worlds" role. For me, the jury is still out but I will watch it again next week. I will also say its somewhat PC in its treatment of homosexuality and race relations. Maybe NYC has always been open about the former but certainly not the latter since there were laws in NYC that required segregation and the races were forced to live in separate areas.

We shall see I suppose.

I generally like it. Sure, it presents modern themes, but the setting is historically accurate so far as I can see.

[Trish]

I watched it last night too. I'm enjoying it but admit that the final scene was a bit disturbing to me. I mean.....seriously....why in the world would he venture into that type of establishment at night and start asking those type of questions. Geesh.......utter stupidity. He should stick to drawing and leave the sneaky detective work to the woman (we're really good at snooping - lol)

Thanks for doing the research. I find history fascinating for a variety of reasons so your post is excellent!!!

Out of curiosity, did you ever watch Deadwood?

[Chris]

A few episodes of Deadwood.


I think John Moore did it because he's a drunk and because Dr. Laszlo Kreizler told him his part was already done just before he ventured into the boy brothel asking questions about the murdered boy. Self-importance.

[nathanbforrest45]

I watched it last night too. I'm enjoying it but admit that the final scene was a bit disturbing to me. I mean.....seriously....why in the world would he venture into that type of establishment at night and start asking those type of questions. Geesh.......utter stupidity. He should stick to drawing and leave the sneaky detective work to the woman (we're really good at snooping - lol)

Thanks for doing the research. I find history fascinating for a variety of reasons so your post is excellent!!!

Out of curiosity, did you ever watch Deadwood?

No never saw any of it.

[pragmatic]

Have not watched the series.

But the book is pretty wonderful.


Have read several by Caleb Carr and they are all good.....

[nathanbforrest45]

Ok, watched episode # 3 of this strange but addicting program. One thought I came away with is if Dakota Fanning is going to considered for an acting award she needs to revert to type and start hyperventilating. Her range of emotion cover from dead to deader. Perhaps the role, to not be able to determine any of her motives or thoughts on any subject at all. Is she in love with the doctor, is she in love with the artist, is she a lesbian. She tells her friend she is in love with a doctor but then we see a scene when she is about to have a relationship with the artist. Who knows, I don't.<br>
<br>
Anyway, one also gets the impression that not only was electric lighting not wide spread in NYC in 1895 but it appears sunlight had not been discovered either. I understand a lot of the "action" occurs at night because that is when the murders are committed but they are not moles, they can come out in the sunlight on occasion can't they?<br>
<br>
I don't think the series is glorifying "boy $#@!s" or transvestites. I think it is looking at two things, the vice and corruption in NYC government at the time (have things changed??) and the fact that no one cared if these young men were murdered or not.<br>
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Next episode Trish, Fanning will either admit she is actually in love with the artist mother or the artist will admit he is attracted to nubile young men. Or maybe none of that will happen. Thomas Edison will pay a visit to the city and shout "Let there be light"