The first Britons were black, DNA study reveals

[Dr. Who]

Actually, you are, that's the topic.

No the topic is not evolution. Read it again. It's not talking about suddenly evolving white people. It's suggesting that it's not sure how white people entered the population when virtually everyone wasn't white. If white were an evolutionary trait in the north, they would have become white long long ago. Whites have only cropped up recently in evolutionary terms. White showed up "suddenly" on the evolutionary scale. That suggests not evolution, but selective breeding of recessives. Just like no natural wild dog ever evolved into a Pekenese.

[Chris]

No the topic is not evolution. Read it again. It's not talking about suddenly evolving white people. It's suggesting that it's not sure how white people entered the population when virtually everyone wasn't white. If white were an evolutionary trait in the north, they would have become white long long ago. Whites have only cropped up recently in evolutionary terms. White showed up "suddenly" on the evolutionary scale. That suggests not evolution, but selective breeding of recessives. Just like no natural wild dog ever evolved into a Pekenese.

It suggests nothing of the sort. Environment itself is selective.

[Dr. Who]

It suggests nothing of the sort. Environment itself is selective.

No, it's not all that selective. Dark skinned people can and do live in the north. Have you looked at the Inuit? In winter they are light brown, exposed to a lot of sunlight they are very dark skinned. Light colored skin is a recessive, like albinoism - in fact probably derived from albinoism. White tribes were made, not evolved. If the center of humanity was Africa, then the first albinos moved into the ME/Mediterranean i.e. north. They kept migrating further north. Every European and Asian culture has relics of dark skinned ancestors, so they were invaded by light skinned people from outcast northern tribes who were very aggressive, much like the stories of the Vikings. At some point, light skin was selected by the ruling classes, no doubt originally because they were dominated by the invaders. Even in places like India and China, the ruling classes became light skinned. This certainly helped to distinguish the ruling classes from the peasants. However, what the ruling classes do, tends to be replicated by the upwardly mobile masses.

[Chris]

If true, what this demonstrates is that evolution works much faster and that populations diverge much more rapidly than than most laymen think.

Yes, they would have to evolve to fit with the climate.

Climate, genetic drift and so on.

I recall long ago arguing with anti-Darwinists, let us call them, who saw in the fossil record perios on no evolution as vidence against evolution. But evolution is episodic: "The overall picture of evolution that arises from the fact that the fossil record is characterized by extinction events and succeeding phases of rapid evolutionary innovation." Another term used is punctuated equilibrium: "The theory, first proposed in 1972 by Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould, that evolution is characterized by geologically long periods of stability during which little speciation occurs, punctuated by short periods of rapid change, species undergoing most of their morphological changes shortly after breaking from their parent species."

http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/...10803095755741, http://www.encyclopedia.com/earth-an...tedequilibrium

[Chris]

If true, what this demonstrates is that evolution works much faster and that populations diverge much more rapidly than than most laymen think.

Yes, they would have to evolve to fit with the climate.

No, it's not all that selective. Dark skinned people can and do live in the north. Have you looked at the Inuit? In winter they are light brown, exposed to a lot of sunlight they are very dark skinned. Light colored skin is a recessive, like albinoism - in fact probably derived from albinoism. White tribes were made, not evolved. If the center of humanity was Africa, then the first albinos moved into the ME/Mediterranean i.e. north. They kept migrating further north. Every European and Asian culture has relics of dark skinned ancestors, so they were invaded by light skinned people from outcast northern tribes who were very aggressive, much like the stories of the Vikings. At some point, light skin was selected by the ruling classes, no doubt originally because they were dominated by the invaders. Even in places like India and China, the ruling classes became light skinned. This certainly helped to distinguish the ruling classes from the peasants. However, what the ruling classes do, tends to be replicated by the upwardly mobile masses.

Obviously it's far more complex than your oversimplified racist theories allow for. Environment xis not just simply "the north."

"White tribes were made, not evolved." Right, some black tribes elected some central planners who decided the best thing for humanity was to breed whites to rule over and oppress them.

How Europeans evolved white skin

Most of us think of Europe as the ancestral home of white people. But a new study shows that pale skin, as well as other traits such as tallness and the ability to digest milk as adults, arrived in most of the continent relatively recently. The work, presented here last week at the 84th annual meeting of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, offers dramatic evidence of recent evolution in Europe and shows that most modern Europeans don’t look much like those of 8000 years ago.

The origins of Europeans have come into sharp focus in the past year as researchers have sequenced the genomes of ancient populations, rather than only a few individuals. By comparing key parts of the DNA across the genomes of 83 ancient individuals from archaeological sites throughout Europe, the international team of researchers reported earlier this year that Europeans today are a mix of the blending of at least three ancient populations of hunter-gatherers and farmers who moved into Europe in separate migrations over the past 8000 years. The study revealed that a massive migration of Yamnaya herders from the steppes north of the Black Sea may have brought Indo-European languages to Europe about 4500 years ago.

Now, a new study from the same team drills down further into that remarkable data to search for genes that were under strong natural selection—including traits so favorable that they spread rapidly throughout Europe in the past 8000 years. By comparing the ancient European genomes with those of recent ones from the 1000 Genomes Project, population geneticist Iain Mathieson, a postdoc in the Harvard University lab of population geneticist David Reich, found five genes associated with changes in diet and skin pigmentation that underwent strong natural selection.

...

So much for your deus ex machina.

[Dr. Who]

Obviously it's far more complex than your oversimplified racist theories allow for. Environment xis not just simply "the north."

"White tribes were made, not evolved." Right, some black tribes elected some central planners who decided the best thing for humanity was to breed whites to rule over and oppress them.

How Europeans evolved white skin



So much for your deus ex machina.

What part of natural selection don't you understand? That means selective breeding.

[MisterVeritis]

Thousands of years later. Isolated populations of people replicate what happens when breeders isolate a recessive gene in animals and keep mating those recessives, one to another. Otherwise, there would be no pygmy tribes of people or phenotypes associated with various ethnicities.

We are talking about various shades of pink. If you look around I bet you will find there are all shades from darkest black to palest pink and every shade in between. We love variations, don't we?

[Chris]

What part of natural selection don't you understand? That means selective breeding.

Natural selection does not imply "White tribes were made, not evolved." That's just plain supersilly. Natural selection is not breeding.

Natural selection and selective breeding can both cause changes in animals and plants. The difference between the two is that natural selection happens naturally, but selective breeding only occurs when humans intervene. For this reason selective breeding is sometimes called artificial selection.

@ https://www.bbc.co.uk/education/guid...d2p/revision/2

[Dr. Who]

Natural selection does not imply "White tribes were made, not evolved." That's just plain supersilly. Natural selection is not breeding.



@ https://www.bbc.co.uk/education/guid...d2p/revision/2

A process that occurs naturally without "human interference". That's kind of impossible when you are dealing with "humans". Mankind wasn't slightly evolved animals when this occurred. Natural selection is a misnomer. Mankind were tribal peoples with the ability to choose for reasons unrelated to survival.

[Chris]

A process that occurs naturally without "human interference". That's kind of impossible when you are dealing with "humans". Mankind wasn't slightly evolved animals when this occurred. Natural selection is a misnomer. Mankind were tribal peoples with the ability to choose for reasons unrelated to survival.

Aliens?