What If...

[Ransom]

I have always viewed "imperialism" as systematic and consolidated. The Roman empire was a system, directed and planned under the rubric of a consolidated political entity. Westward expansion was, for the most part, spontaneous and decentralized. I don't think it takes on the characteristics of a genuine system of imperialism until after the US civil war. That is when you see the US armed forces start to systematically conquer the remaining Indian nations.

Then kids...the map of the US in 1860.




But no systematic imperialism until after the Civil War, huh?

Ethereal.....the amount of drool on your history desk during history class must have been legendary. Your history teacher should be arrested. Charged.

Sad and pathetic. Wow.

[Ransom]

My support for the Kurds is largely philosophical and personal. To the extent I support them politically, that is ONLY because people like you are hijacking the government in order to support Kurdish enemies like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. As soon as you and other neocons stop using the US government to prop up Jihadist dictatorships and Turkish Sultans, then I will withdraw my political support for the Kurds as they will no longer need it.

Excuse me, Sir. You advocating arming the Kurds. Did you not? Supporting their 'right' to become a sovereign nation, full autonomy or have you forgotten that advocated policy as well? It wasn't support based on some Neocon policy to prop up dictatorships, your belief was these Kurds were to be supported.....in defiance of each and every nation in the entire f'n region. Your misinformation attempts continue. You Sir.....would destabilize the entire region, no one to include Iraq, Iran, Syria, nor Turkey want a Kurdish nation or even autonomy. Every one of them vehemently opposed while you chastised our own government for not getting involved...something that would have so foolish. Why are you being so misleading here?

No, they built a republic. They expressly rejected the concept of empire. America's independence was based on seceding from the British empire. Eventually, I will force you to learn American history, not the made up version you clearly subscribe to.

They did not reject that concept, in fact voted in elections with higher turnout than our own elections...risking life and limb to do so. You are being misleading, Ethereal.

And where is that example of me supporting sanctions against Iraq? You made the claim, now back it up with proof.

Will you cease your act and pretend games, Ethereal. We've had countless conversations on the Iraq war. You're a containment policy wonk. Sanction and blockade and it was those policies....not the policies of invasion and occupation that inspired al-Qaeda to declare war on us. And why we cannot ever allow you to make decisions of any kind, not with the stakes so high.

[The Xl]

If we should have invaded anyone, it should have been the Saudis. But as anyone with a clue knows, those wars had nothing to do with defense or anything of the sort.

[Peter1469]

Sanctions and blockade, the policies of containment both you and Ethereal advocate. And have been proven disastrous and wrong.

You don't know what you are talking about.

[Captdon]

I learned something new. i have always understood that Al-Queda did 9/11 because of the troops in Saudi Arabia in 91. I thought Bin Laden developed a hate for us then and all the attacks were a result of that.

I have now done more research and find that ransom is correct. Humble pie for stepping out of my comfort zone of US history(up to WWII) and jumping into world history.

Still, Monroe didn't believe in neutrality. He dared the Europeans to try to develop new colonies. That's not neutral. Neither was Jefferson except his words. His action say different.

[Orion Rules]

I learned something new. i have always understood that Al-Queda did 9/11 because of the troops in Saudi Arabia in 91. I thought Bin Laden developed a hate for us then and all the attacks were a result of that.

I have now done more research and find that ransom is correct. Humble pie for stepping out of my comfort zone of US history(up to WWII) and jumping into world history.

Still, Monroe didn't believe in neutrality. He dared the Europeans to try to develop new colonies. That's not neutral. Neither was Jefferson except his words. His action say different.

Interesting, but what Donald Trump does, as he says he will do as he says, is he has given full reigns to the Zionists,

The Zionist wars of the old Middle East, just because Greater Israel, Desert Shield was, so are shields those Zionists,

All that Russian collusion to win an election good not for much except that there's the President of the United States,

The use of weaponry against Bashar al-Assad at first part of a prophecy stated to never touch him or his own props,

The President should be uniting a country he was elected from, and stop using everything Hillary does is the worst of,

He is the President, not her, all the time spent worrying about an investigation that is made up mostly by neo-cons...

The President has no rallying point other than those who elected him, and he does not need them except for prayers,

If he cannot bring a bill together that would cause people to eat for what is wholistic health because of animal abuses,

Then nothing else he does will matter much because he already blew it when he torched Bashar al-Assad's own forces.

[Ethereal]

I learned something new. i have always understood that Al-Queda did 9/11 because of the troops in Saudi Arabia in 91. I thought Bin Laden developed a hate for us then and all the attacks were a result of that.

I have now done more research and find that ransom is correct. Humble pie for stepping out of my comfort zone of US history(up to WWII) and jumping into world history.

Still, Monroe didn't believe in neutrality. He dared the Europeans to try to develop new colonies. That's not neutral. Neither was Jefferson except his words. His action say different.

Monroe did not dare them to do anything. He did not even say he would stop Europeans from developing new colonies. He merely said the US would treat such colonies as unfriendly acts.

But even if you can point out particular instances where the founders deviated from neutrality, it does not change the fact that their overall policy framework was based on the concept of armed neutrality. Sometimes leaders deviate from a principle for pragmatic reasons, but that does not mean they have abandoned the principle itself. On the whole, US foreign policy was one of neutrality in the beginning of the republic. Indeed, the founders saw neutrality in foreign affairs as necessary to the maintenance of the republic.

[Captdon]

Monroe did not dare them to do anything. He did not even say he would stop Europeans from developing new colonies. He merely said the US would treat such colonies as unfriendly acts.

But even if you can point out particular instances where the founders deviated from neutrality, it does not change the fact that their overall policy framework was based on the concept of armed neutrality. Sometimes leaders deviate from a principle for pragmatic reasons, but that does not mean they have abandoned the principle itself. On the whole, US foreign policy was one of neutrality in the beginning of the republic. Indeed, the founders saw neutrality in foreign affairs as necessary to the maintenance of the republic.

Good God, Monroe really throws you off. What he said was the opposite of neutrality. Get over it.

Oh, so when they deviated it was not policy change. What type of reasoning is that? Does flip-flop ring a bell?

[Max Rockatansky]

Good God, Monroe really throws you off. What he said was the opposite of neutrality. Get over it.

Oh, so when they deviated it was not policy change. What type of reasoning is that? Does flip-flop ring a bell?

Agreed here. What if some people can't handle the modern world and pine for the simpler days of wooden ships and killing Indians was the main problem of the Federal government?

[Ransom]

You don't know what you are talking about.

Coming from you, Peter, this is a compliment.