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Originally Posted by William
Only one comment, poverty is the natural state of man.
No, I'll add this, there are hard-line views on poverty, and there are soft-line, but those views don't cause poverty. All the compassion in the world won't solve it either.
Last edited by Chris; 03-11-2018 at 08:33 AM.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
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An interesting lecture on capitalism, the good, the bad and the better...
I'll leave you to watch it, it's long, and will only extract these additional graphs of data on the successes of capitalism:
The effects of the Enlightenment, Industrial Revolution, Capitalism on the West:
THe reduction of poverty under capitalism:
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
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Being born poor and having a bad education is an excuse, not a reason.
Tell me you would start and run a business you didn't gain from. only a stupid person would do that and they would be too stupid to make it work.
The Scandinavians don't have a lazy, free-loading underclass either.
One of six kids live in food insecure homes is liberal nonsense.Even if true, who's fault is that? It's not capitalism. It's a bad parent or two bad parents. Liberals believ everything is the fault of society. That's insane.
Name a system that would work better? Socialism certainly doesn't. Even countries like Norway and Sweden are not totally socialist. Every true socialist nation has been, or is, a failure.
If you don't work for yourself you had better hope someone hires you. Everybody can't be an owner so you fail on all your arguments.
Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
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Socialists? What socialists?
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Todays Democrat party is a socialist party, Maybe not full blown, but they support socialism and control of a powerful federal government.
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Just more denial from the left.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
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Being born poor and having a bad education contributes to poverty when you are grown up, and makes it harder to escape poverty. For lots of reasons; cos that poor education doesn't give you the qualifications to get a high paying job, and more importantly, it doesn't make you value education for its own sake, or make you want to gain more education. You can also feel inferior, cos you often don't speak as well or have the same amount of general knowledge as the people around you, and this can make you lack self confidence - all these things make it harder to get out of poverty. And even if you make lots of money somehow, you are always going to lack that self confidence that comes from having a good education, and coming from a home where you were exposed to good literature and music.
My dad is a barrister, so in that way he is running a business. He gives his time one day every week for free, in what is called 'pro bono' work. I think he can be a bit hard on me at times, but don't think he is stupid. So of course you could run a business you didn't gain money from, but money is not the only thing people put effort into - there are other rewards.
But you know, I may not be as old as most people here but I'm not totally stupid either. We are really not talking about businesses making no profit at all. We are talking about the amount of profit business makes, and the amount they pay those people who make that profit possible. There has to be a balance, or society just gets wrecked.
I don'y know that the Swedes, the Norwegians, the Danes, the Finns, the Dutch, the Germans, the Austrians, etc. are any different from the English, the Americans, or the Australians. We all have hard working people and lazy people, but the northern Europeans use better social systems, which allow them to have better, more equal societies.
It is not 'liberal nonsense' - it is a statistic, which you might not be comfortable with.
https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-factsMore than 13 million children in the United States live in "food insecure" homes, according to recent research from the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That means those families don't regularly have enough food to eat, the most basic of all human needs.
http://www.feedingamerica.org/about-...ca-report.htmlMore than 12 million children in the United States are food insecure – unable to consistently access adequate amounts of nutritious food necessary for a healthy life.
https://mashable.com/2016/07/14/chil.../#LXSdwcAGjaqMAccording to Feeding America, 1 in 7 people in the U.S. face hunger every year. The rates of hunger in children are even higher, with about 1 in 5 lacking proper access to food at some point during the year.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/en...b08b75dcc5d0bbOn Thursday, the nonprofit Share Our Strength’s No Kid Hungry campaign released a report on childhood hunger in the U.S. and how food insecurity can affect school performance. The findings are eye-opening.
Titled “Hunger in Our Schools,” the report found that 1 in 6 kids in the U.S. face hunger. Sixty-two percent of low-income parents worry about running out of food for their children before having enough money to buy more, and 35 percent of kids share that fear.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/hunger/In the United States more than half of hungry households are white, and two-thirds of those with children have at least one working adult—typically in a full-time job. With this new image comes a new lexicon: In 2006 the U.S. government replaced “hunger” with the term “food insecure” to describe any household where, sometime during the previous year, people didn’t have enough food to eat. By whatever name, the number of people going hungry has grown dramatically in the U.S., increasing to 48 million by 2012—a fivefold jump since the late 1960s, including an increase of 57 percent since the late 1990s.
Like I said, I'm not interested in names, and putting people and countries into convenient boxes. The most successful, and happiest, countries in the world balance the right to make money with looking after their citizens - so you can call them what you like but they are better than your system. You want multi-billionaires, violence and hungry children - knock yourself out, but don't claim your system is better.
I haven't made any arguments, I only quoted known facts. And when I finish school, I will be going to university to train for a professional career, so I doubt I will be depending on some industrialist hiring me. But if I had grown up in a poor household that couldn't afford to send me to a good school, or to university, I would have to depend on someone hiring me in spite of my lack of education. So I don't know why you brought that up - but thanks, it proves what I am trying to say.
Oh, I wish I were a glow worm,
for a glow worm's never glum,
'cause how can you be grumpy
when the sun shines out your bum!
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Conservatives are every bit as enamored of federal control as any "socialist". Whenever a state or local government acts in a way that Conservatives disapprove of, they have no problem seeking an act of Congress, a Presidential or other administrative directive or a federal court ruling. Sure, I know..."that's different".
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard
"Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry
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Then those "conservatives" are every bit as much central planning socialists.
There's that old story about Lincoln:
‘Sir, how many legs does this donkey have?’
‘Four, Mr. Lincoln.’
‘And how many tails has it?’
‘Why, just one, Mr. Lincoln.’
‘Tell me, sir, what if we were to call the tail a leg; how many legs would the donkey then have?’
‘Five, Mr. Lincoln.’
‘No, sir; for you cannot make a tail into a leg by calling it one.’
I think though perhaps you confuse Republicans, who do that, with conservatives, who are generally against.
Last edited by Chris; 03-12-2018 at 08:50 AM.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
Captdon (03-12-2018)
Senior Member
When you grow up and live on your own in the world get back to me. You don't know a thing about how the world works.Being born poor and having a bad education contributes to poverty when you are grown up, and makes it harder to escape poverty. For lots of reasons; cos that poor education doesn't give you the qualifications to get a high paying job, and more importantly, it doesn't make you value education for its own sake, or make you want to gain more education. You can also feel inferior, cos you often don't speak as well or have the same amount of general knowledge as the people around you, and this can make you lack self confidence - all these things make it harder to get out of poverty. And even if you make lots of money somehow, you are always going to lack that self confidence that comes from having a good education, and coming from a home where you were exposed to good literature and music.
My dad is a barrister, so in that way he is running a business. He gives his time one day every week for free, in what is called 'pro bono' work. I think he can be a bit hard on me at times, but don't think he is stupid. So of course you could run a business you didn't gain money from, but money is not the only thing people put effort into - there are other rewards.
But you know, I may not be as old as most people here but I'm not totally stupid either. We are really not talking about businesses making no profit at all. We are talking about the amount of profit business makes, and the amount they pay those people who make that profit possible. There has to be a balance, or society just gets wrecked.
I don'y know that the Swedes, the Norwegians, the Danes, the Finns, the Dutch, the Germans, the Austrians, etc. are any different from the English, the Americans, or the Australians. We all have hard working people and lazy people, but the northern Europeans use better social systems, which allow them to have better, more equal societies.
It is not 'liberal nonsense' - it is a statistic, which you might not be comfortable with.
https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-facts
http://www.feedingamerica.org/about-...ca-report.html
https://mashable.com/2016/07/14/chil.../#LXSdwcAGjaqM
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/en...b08b75dcc5d0bb
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/hunger/
Like I said, I'm not interested in names, and putting people and countries into convenient boxes. The most successful, and happiest, countries in the world balance the right to make money with looking after their citizens - so you can call them what you like but they are better than your system. You want multi-billionaires, violence and hungry children - knock yourself out, but don't claim your system is better.
I haven't made any arguments, I only quoted known facts. And when I finish school, I will be going to university to train for a professional career, so I doubt I will be depending on some industrialist hiring me. But if I had grown up in a poor household that couldn't afford to send me to a good school, or to university, I would have to depend on someone hiring me in spite of my lack of education. So I don't know why you brought that up - but thanks, it proves what I am trying to say.
Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
Pick your enemies carefully.
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