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Thread: Miami ~ Mass Casualties as Pedestrian Bridge collapses

  1. #31
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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokmaster View Post
    Standard "appeal to authority" duly-noted.
    Right. We wouldn't want people who learn to design structures to be involved in the design, would we? You chose to call a group of engineering students, probably working on their senior projects idiots. That is unfair to them and it does not put you in a good light either.
    My oldest brother has been an engineer for 45 years, and has built numerous projects, most more complicated than the bridge, but he has been involved designing more than one bridge, as well. We have actually had conversations , before, on numerous topics, (as he is my brother) , including, but not limited to, structural design of just about everything from bird feeders to high construction cranes. He's pretty sharp.
    Information on structural design is freely available to all who can read. I have welded numerous engine lifts, and other load bearing devices, all of which work exceedingly well, the oldest cherry picker I built in 1983, that has pulled DT466 diesels weighing nearly a ton, while the hoist itself weighs less than 400 lbs., and is still working great.
    I grasp how structural strength works, thank you.
    Any student of architecture is aware of the strength of arch supports; many the Romans built are still standing, bearing weight.
    One doesn't need a degree in engineering to see the weakness in the design illustrated above; one needs only to have built an erect, load-bearing structure.
    Try READING about it; the engineers who authored this work AGREE WITH ME :
    . . .

    If the designers of the ill-fated Florida bridge had added cross-supports , underneath it, from the 1st or 2nd vertical supports , it would likely still be standing.

    Or, if they had just built an arch bridge, it would likely still be standing. They JUST PUT IT UP, and it fell; that screams "design flaw". It's also likely that whatever the crane operators were doing, on the side that fell first, contributed to its fall.
    It doesn't take a genius to see the inherent weakness in that design. Any kid that has ever successfully dammed a creek could likely see it...
    So you answered many questions no one asked. How would you balance the cost, schedule and technical performance to build that bridge? You have a set amount of money, a set amount of time and some set of requirements. What do you do?

    Clearly, one design is not the right design for every bridge. If it was we would have no further need for mechanical or civil engineers.

    You have neither designed nor built any bridges.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  2. #32
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    Grokmaster's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Right. We wouldn't want people who learn to design structures to be involved in the design, would we? You chose to call a group of engineering students, probably working on their senior projects idiots. That is unfair to them and it does not put you in a good light either.


    So you answered many questions no one asked. How would you balance the cost, schedule and technical performance to build that bridge? You have a set amount of money, a set amount of time and some set of requirements. What do you do?

    Clearly, one design is not the right design for every bridge. If it was we would have no further need for mechanical or civil engineers.

    You have neither designed nor built any bridges.
    I need only to point to the bridge collapse, to nullify all of this: " How would you balance the cost, schedule and technical performance to build that bridge? You have a set amount of money, a set amount of time and some set of requirements. What do you do?

    Clearly, one design is not the right design for every bridge. If it was we would have no further need for mechanical or civil engineers.

    You have neither designed nor built any bridges. "
    How would you balance the cost, schedule and technical performance to build that bridge? You have a set amount of money, a set amount of time and some set of requirements. What do you do?

    Clearly, one design is not the right design for every bridge. If it was we would have no further need for mechanical or civil engineers.

    You have neither designed nor built any bridges.

    ALL IRRELEVANT in the face of the result.



    "You have neither designed nor built any bridges. "

    Neither have you. But I have no trouble seeing that one has failed, unlike you, apparently.

    Other people have designed and built bridges that DID NOT FALL DOWN, almost immediately.

    Those are called "successful". You seem to think that a failure is "the same" as a success...and that "only and engineer" could tell the difference.

    Don't try to saddle/define me with your limitations.
    Last edited by Grokmaster; 03-18-2018 at 06:15 PM.
    De Oppresso Liber



  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokmaster View Post
    I need only to point to the bridge collapse, to nullify all of this: " How would you balance the cost, schedule and technical performance to build that bridge? You have a set amount of money, a set amount of time and some set of requirements. What do you do?

    No. Your answer fails to answer.

    I know why. It is complicated. What were the requirements? Who set them? Were they adequate? Who was the lead systems engineer? What were his or her qualifications? Who was the Program Manager? What were his or her qualifications? Who were the Government Program Manager and lead systems engineers? What about the Safety Engineer?

    ALL IRRELEVANT in the face of the result.

    Untrue.
    "You have neither designed nor built any bridges. "
    Neither have you.
    I have, however, designed very large systems which involved electrical, mechanical and civil engineering.

    But I have no trouble seeing that one has failed, unlike you, apparently.
    Other people have designed and built bridges that DID NOT FALL DOWN, almost immediately.
    Those are called "successful". You seem to think that a failure is "the same" as a success...and that "only an engineer" could tell the difference.
    Don't try to saddle/define me with your limitations.
    Your greatest limitation is your failure to watch and learn.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    [/I]No. Your answer fails to answer.

    I know why. It is complicated. What were the requirements? Who set them? Were they adequate? Who was the lead systems engineer? What were his or her qualifications? Who was the Program Manager? What were his or her qualifications? Who were the Government Program Manager and lead systems engineers? What about the Safety Engineer?

    [/B]
    [/I]Untrue.

    I have, however, designed very large systems which involved electrical, mechanical and civil engineering.


    Your greatest limitation is your failure to watch and learn.
    I can see. You are entitled to your overwrought, apologetic view of this matter.

    Please cite the bridges you designed.

    I'll go with the OBVIOUS, mechanical realities, thank you.
    De Oppresso Liber



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