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Thread: Rape kits, DNA, and criminals

  1. #11
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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    you would have to get the proper warrants.
    Incorrect. No warrant is required to test an existing dna sample.

    You cannot go and sample random results to compare.
    Every genealogy company has its own database of customers. Each has its maps showing the percentage of the sample's dna that came from a general area.

    There is a chain of custody thing.
    There are no chain of custody issues. This is not developing evidence. It is building leads.
    I agree that DNA is the best way to catch a rapist, probably the least common tho, you still need to follow the requirements to obtaining such information. It is illegal to fish.
    There are no laws I am aware of that would prevent a police department from sending a dna sample to a genealogy company.
    Still, do they need a warrant to demand such access from the sample holders.
    The police have the rape kits from which the DNA samples will be drawn for testing by the private genealogy companies.

    And then there's HIPPA..............Are samples considered public access or private only?
    HIPPA does not apply.
    It would be a most slippery slope, I think
    The slope leads to leads. It has the potential to identify genetic relatives. It could also identify repeat rapists. While the information could not be used as evidence it could still lead to the rapist. Once the leads have been followed it is possible the police could establish probable cause for further actions. Then the rape kit would have to go through the normal process. It could inexpensively help the police prioritize their efforts.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Captdon (04-28-2018)

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    jimmyz's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Incorrect. No warrant is required to test an existing dna sample.


    Every genealogy company has its own database of customers. Each has its maps showing the percentage of the sample's dna that came from a general area.


    There are no chain of custody issues. This is not developing evidence. It is building leads.

    There are no laws I am aware of that would prevent a police department from sending a dna sample to a genealogy company.

    The police have the rape kits from which the DNA samples will be drawn for testing by the private genealogy companies.


    HIPPA does not apply.

    The slope leads to leads. It has the potential to identify genetic relatives. It could also identify repeat rapists. While the information could not be used as evidence it could still lead to the rapist. Once the leads have been followed it is possible the police could establish probable cause for further actions. Then the rape kit would have to go through the normal process. It could inexpensively help the police prioritize their efforts.
    Do you think that defense attorneys would tie-up cases in court claiming that the results from the private testing firms were in some way invalid?
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

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    stjames1_53 (04-27-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Incorrect. No warrant is required to test an existing dna sample.


    Every genealogy company has its own database of customers. Each has its maps showing the percentage of the sample's dna that came from a general area.


    There are no chain of custody issues. This is not developing evidence. It is building leads.

    There are no laws I am aware of that would prevent a police department from sending a dna sample to a genealogy company.

    The police have the rape kits from which the DNA samples will be drawn for testing by the private genealogy companies.


    HIPPA does not apply.

    The slope leads to leads. It has the potential to identify genetic relatives. It could also identify repeat rapists. While the information could not be used as evidence it could still lead to the rapist. Once the leads have been followed it is possible the police could establish probable cause for further actions. Then the rape kit would have to go through the normal process. It could inexpensively help the police prioritize their efforts.
    ok, any cases with standing on this issue?
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    Do you think that defense attorneys would tie-up cases in court claiming that the results from the private testing firms were in some way invalid?
    No.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    ok, any cases with standing on this issue?
    I just thought it up yesterday. I don't know if anyone is doing it. But we should.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    Do you think that defense attorneys would tie-up cases in court claiming that the results from the private testing firms were in some way invalid?
    How could they? It wouldn't be evidence. A lead is a lead, not evidence.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our democracy and our society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    I just thought it up yesterday. I don't know if anyone is doing it. But we should.
    just a question.............are you going to pay them detective wages or what they would normally bill? Or are you assuming they will just willingly open their doors. Many of these places have guaranteed privacy.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
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    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    just a question.............are you going to pay them detective wages or what they would normally bill? Or are you assuming they will just willingly open their doors. Many of these places have guaranteed privacy.
    What an interesting question.

    The samples can be labeled however the police and company agree. Google runs the largest genealogy company. I bet they would happily take additional government dollars.
    Last edited by MisterVeritis; 04-28-2018 at 03:15 PM.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    What an interesting question.

    The samples can be labeled however the police and company agree. Google runs the largest genealogy company. I bet they would happily take additional government dollars.
    Step one, test the sample. Ok, you get your feedback. Then, you want the private service to run checks against their data base, exploring all the possibilities.
    Is that not an invasion of privacy?
    Next, when was the last time any agency that had that power abused it?
    it is akin to spying on Americans, in an off-handed manner. What if the DNA samples they are looking for are not on file? Force everyone to give up their DNA? make it a law?
    I'm not willing to give my DNA up, not even for Ancestry.com or any of the others, if I don't have a right to privacy. Now what? force me?
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    Step one, test the sample. Ok, you get your feedback. Then, you want the private service to run checks against their data base, exploring all the possibilities.
    Is that not an invasion of privacy?
    This is already included in the cost of evaluating a dna sample. Whose privacy is it invading?

    Let's say it is my dna being sent off. What the police get back says 40% of my dna comes from England, 10% from Scotland, 40% from western Europe, and 10% from Western Washington state Indian tribes. The company will also provide the names of near matches for my dna. From this the police should know they are looking for a white male, height probably around 5'10" - 6', medium to heavy build. For fifty bucks the police get some clues. I understand they can even use this to determine my most likely skin color.

    They also get a list of names of near dna matches. If those people live in the area where the crimes occurred they might have some information to share.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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