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Thread: Rape kits, DNA, and criminals

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    Rape kits, DNA, and criminals

    Someone posted we have a large number of rape kits with DNA samples untested. Why not send them out to the half dozen genealogy sites and see what comes back? We will know far more about the criminals than we do today.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Someone posted we have a large number of rape kits with DNA samples untested. Why not send them out to the half dozen genealogy sites and see what comes back? We will know far more about the criminals than we do today.
    That's a scary subject.
    I'd go along with it as long as they had a very, very specific warrant. It was warned that one day, these collection sites could be used against the private citizen. Having already given up a sample, can you still claim invasion of privacy for a fishing expedition? Does the law even need a warrant if the collection site gives it up voluntarily?
    Too many moral and ethical issues arise, much less Due Process.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    That's a scary subject.
    I'd go along with it as long as they had a very, very specific warrant. It was warned that one day, these collection sites could be used against the private citizen. Having already given up a sample, can you still claim invasion of privacy for a fishing expedition? Does the law even need a warrant if the collection site gives it up voluntarily?
    Too many moral and ethical issues arise, much less Due Process.
    A dna sample found within a rape victim requires no warrant. Send it out and what comes back. Interestingly one might discover the perp's close relatives. Or even the perp himself.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Private companies getting into law enforcement evidence collection and determining results is a little scary. Chain of custody, false positives and mistakes being troublesome.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

    Art thou every retard among us related to thine uncle or mistress by way of moral or illegitimate rendezvous? Thus, we are one side of the other's coin by luck or pluck. - Jimmyz

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    A dna sample found within a rape victim requires no warrant. Send it out and what comes back. Interestingly one might discover the perp's close relatives. Or even the perp himself.
    the rape kit is indeed lawful. That wasn't my point. It was access to massive storage units of DNA that weren't surrendered for examination by law enforcement, legally for that purpose.
    If you're being held as a suspect for a rape, a warrant is still needed to collect a sample to compare. How is this different? You, at least, have a suspect in custody, not sitting around in some laboratory store house.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    Private companies getting into law enforcement evidence collection and determining results is a little scary. Chain of custody, false positives and mistakes being troublesome.
    Private companies would not even be aware. I would suggest sending in a dna sample exactly the same way any other paying customers would. What could they tell us? They could tell us the areas of the world the perp drew his dna from. It could even offer a list of names of people who have a high match probability with the perp's sample.

    It would not be used as evidence. But it would offer substantial identity clues.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    the rape kit is indeed lawful. That wasn't my point. It was access to massive storage units of DNA that weren't surrendered for examination by law enforcement, legally for that purpose.
    If you're being held as a suspect for a rape, a warrant is still needed to collect a sample to compare. How is this different? You, at least, have a suspect in custody, not sitting around in some laboratory store house.
    This is to deal with the quarter to half million rape kits sitting unevaluated. At this point all the police have is a dna sample. What comes back could help establish appearance and possibly identify likely relatives. It could turn a cold case into a warm case. It could also identify repeat rapists.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Private companies would not even be aware. I would suggest sending in a dna sample exactly the same way any other paying customers would. What could they tell us? They could tell us the areas of the world the perp drew his dna from. It could even offer a list of names of people who have a high match probability with the perp's sample.

    It would not be used as evidence. But it would offer substantial identity clues.
    In other words, a fishing expedition.
    MV, it sure sounds good on paper, but I think it would only cause problems. Most of them with legal ramifications.
    As far as rape kits go, in Louisville there are over 1500 untested rape kits. So they haven't even been tested by law enforcement to kick start an investigation into anyone. They're too busy buying armored vehicles with which to protect us.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

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    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    This is to deal with the quarter to half million rape kits sitting unevaluated. At this point all the police have is a dna sample. What comes back could help establish appearance and possibly identify likely relatives. It could turn a cold case into a warm case. It could also identify repeat rapists.
    you would have to get the proper warrants. You cannot go and sample random results to compare. There is a chain of custody thing.
    I agree that DNA is the best way to catch a rapist, probably the least common tho, you still need to follow the requirements to obtaining such information. It is illegal to fish.
    Still, do they need a warrant to demand such access from the sample holders. And then there's HIPPA..............Are samples considered public access or private only?
    It would be a most slippery slope, I think
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    In other words, a fishing expedition.
    MV, it sure sounds good on paper, but I think it would only cause problems. Most of them with legal ramifications.
    As far as rape kits go, in Louisville there are over 1500 untested rape kits. So they haven't even been tested by law enforcement to kick start an investigation into anyone. They're too busy buying armored vehicles with which to protect us.
    A fishing expedition? Nonsense. It is taking unused evidence to develop additional leads. What possible legal ramifications do you see?

    A genealogy test can cost as little as fifty bucks. For that price, you will find out the likely characteristics of the rapist. You will also get close matches of potential relatives. In other words, you will get leads to help solve the crime. You won't get evidence. For that, you will have to send the rape kit through a forensics team with a chain of custody.

    For less than $100K Louisville could test all of their kits and build leads for 1500 unsolved crimes.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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