Teacher Strike Update

[Cletus]

Why is it extortion? While on strike, they don't get paid.

Really?

They are trying to shut down the business to FORCE the owner to capitulate to their demands.

It is thuggery.

[Cletus]

Well, I guess getting another job is one way of fixing the problem on a personal level - but do we think someone who spent years at university qualifying to teach kids, would make a better server at McDonalds?

A lot of the would.

My dad says trade unions have been an important part of any developed nation, and anyone who doesn't want them is happy to see vulnerable people exploited.

With all due respect to your dad, he is wrong. Unions exploit their members. They use strong arm tactics to extort business owners. When threats and intimidation don't work, they often resort to destruction of property, violence, even murder to get their way.

They are evil.

[gamewell45]

Really?

They are trying to shut down the business to FORCE the owner to capitulate to their demands.

It is thuggery.

No, it's not. they are simply withholding their services until either they get what they want or are permanently replaced.

It's a simple business deal; if you own for example, a plumbing company and the customer refuses to pay what you ask, then you can refuse to do any work for him/her until you get what you feel they should pay. It's the same thing with the teachers. The school is free to hire replacement workers (scabs) to avoid shutdown if they so choose.

[Cletus]

No, it's not. they are simply withholding their services until either they get what they want or are permanently replaced.

Since the law doesn't allow the employer to just terminate them unless they are wildcatting, it certainly is extortion.

I would have no problems with strikes if the employer could protect himself by just firing anyone who walks out.

It's a simple business deal; if you own for example, a plumbing company and the customer refuses to pay what you ask, then you can refuse to do any work for him/her until you get what you feel they should pay. It's the same thing with the teachers. The school is free to hire replacement workers (scabs) to avoid shutdown if they so choose.

Your use of the word "scabs" tells me much about your mindset. Most of the time, those "scabs" actually increase production and quality of work over the overpaid, pampered, union crybabies. The union also uses threats of force against its own members if they want to cross the picket line and go back to work. During the UMW strike against the BCOA, I interviewed a whole herd of UMW members who didn't want to be on strike and just wanted to go back to work, but as a number of them told me... they were scared to because once the strike was over, they would have to be underground with those guys and it was made clear to them just how easy it is for an "accident" to happen.

What was interesting about that strike was that when replacement workers were hired, production actually went UP per man hour. Over all production was still down because there weren't enough replacement workers to operate at full strength, but the workers they did have produced more per man hour than the union people did before the strike.

In that particular strike, UMW members lost their cars and in many cases, their homes because they stayed out so long. It wasn't that many of them didn't want to go back to work, they were afraid of what the union goons would do to them if they did.

[gamewell45]

Since the law doesn't allow the employer to just terminate them unless they are wildcatting, it certainly is extortion.

I would have no problems with strikes if the employer could protect himself by just firing anyone who walks out.


Your use of the word "scabs" tells me much about your mindset. Most of the time, those "scabs" actually increase production and quality of work over the overpaid, pampered, union crybabies. The union also uses threats of force against its own members if they want to cross the picket line and go back to work. During the UMW strike against the BCOA, I interviewed a whole herd of UMW members who didn't want to be on strike and just wanted to go back to work, but as a number of them told me... they were scared to because once the strike was over, they would have to be underground with those guys and it was made clear to them just how easy it is for an "accident" to happen.

What was interesting about that strike was that when replacement workers were hired, production actually went UP per man hour. Over all production was still down because there weren't enough replacement workers to operate at full strength, but the workers they did have produced more per man hour than the union people did before the strike.

In that particular strike, UMW members lost their cars and in many cases, their homes because they stayed out so long. It wasn't that many of them didn't want to go back to work, they were afraid of what the union goons would do to them if they did.

what I find interesting is all these horrible things about unions; why is it that I never witnessed any of this in all my years as a union member?? We never threatened anyone and most of us did our jobs without issue.

You mentioned my mindset by the use of the word "scab"; likewise the use of the words "union goons" tells me your mindset as well. I'll acknowledge that you have a right to be anti-union just like I have a right to be pro-union. Just that my experience was a good one compared to yours.

If the teachers are willing to sacrifice for what they believe in by striking, then god bless them. There is a risk in everything you do in life; you just have to assess what you stand to gain by what you stand to lose. So far, it looks like most of the teachers who have gone on strike have gained.
Finally, I think eventually the American worker will get fed up like being treated like a piece of carpet and stand up for their rights just like workers did in the 30's and 40's. Don't know if i'll live to see it, but sure hope I do.

[Cletus]

what I find interesting is all these horrible things about unions; why is it that I never witnessed any of this in all my years as a union member?? We never threatened anyone and most of us did our jobs without issue.

If you are unaware of the history of violence on the parts of unions, itis because you don't want to know.

You mentioned my mindset by the use of the word "scab"; likewise the use of the words "union goons" tells me your mindset as well.

I have personally witnessed and filmed for evidence, union thugs using intimidation tactics over and over again. One of my clients for a long time was the Tribune Company. They sent me all over the country to investigate union violence during labor disputes. I have seen trucks burned, very expensive transformers shot up to create power outages. Newspaper vendors in New York threatened and their papers taken and strewn all over the street. In Chicago, I once saw them take a take a guy at a construction site and toss him head first into a burn barrel (fortunately, he escaped with only first and second degree burns to his face and upper body). In West Virginia, in a little coal town, they shot into my vehicle as I passed one of their "roadblocks". The bullet went into the passenger seat. In Pennsylvania, they shot into a bus transporting replacement workers and killed one of them.

I could cite example after example. so yeah, I think "goons" is actually being kind of mild.

If the teachers are willing to sacrifice for what they believe in by striking, then god bless them. There is a risk in everything you do in life; you just have to assess what you stand to gain by what you stand to lose. So far, it looks like most of the teachers who have gone on strike have gained.

Yeah, but the kids lost out. Which is more important to you?

Finally, I think eventually the American worker will get fed up like being treated like a piece of carpet and stand up for their rights just like workers did in the 30's and 40's. Don't know if i'll live to see it, but sure hope I do.

Workers today have more protections under the law than ever before in history. Unions are an anachronism and need to go away. The sooner, the better. If you don't like your job, QUIT.

[gamewell45]

If you are unaware of the history of violence on the parts of unions, itis because you don't want to know.

I'm well aware of labor history and the violence committed by both unions and the companies. That's why the NLRA of 1935 was created.

I have personally witnessed and filmed for evidence, union thugs using intimidation tactics over and over again. One of my clients for a long time was the Tribune Company. They sent me all over the country to investigate union violence during labor disputes. I have seen trucks burned, very expensive transformers shot up to create power outages. Newspaper vendors in New York threatened and their papers taken and strewn all over the street. In Chicago, I once saw them take a take a guy at a construction site and toss him head first into a burn barrel (fortunately, he escaped with only first and second degree burns to his face and upper body). In West Virginia, in a little coal town, they shot into my vehicle as I passed one of their "roadblocks". The bullet went into the passenger seat. In Pennsylvania, they shot into a bus transporting replacement workers and killed one of them.

How many separate unions have you witnessed this being done by?

I could cite example after example. so yeah, I think "goons" is actually being kind of mild.

It looks like we agree on something after all. you think "goons" is actually being kind of mild and I feel that "scabs" is actually being kind of mild.

Yeah, but the kids lost out. Which is more important to you?

Being able to put food on the table for my kids is most important to me and since striking is a last option for me, if I cannot afford to feed my family, then I'm willing to take a risk and strike.

Workers today have more protections under the law than ever before in history. Unions are an anachronism and need to go away. The sooner, the better. If you don't like your job, QUIT.

So-called worker protections under the law are a joke; they tip the scales in favor of management and in many cases are designed to drag out over the years so by the time they get to your case, you've either found a new job, forgotten most of the details or have died. The laws are designed to fail for the worker. Unions are far from being an anachronism unless you are a manager or owner of a company. The US Chamber of Commerce is an advocate for business; the union is an advocate for the worker. That's balance. If you don't like your job, quit or work from within to make changes in your working conditions.

[Common]

Unions were a necessary evil in the days when employers hired thugs to beat and sometimes kill employees to keep them from asking for anything and to generally keep them in line. Organized crime came to the defense of the workers and overwhelmed the hired employer thugs and beat and killed them. Then in turn employers bowed and finally gave decent pay and unions were formed.


Unions fought for safe working conditions thats how osha was formed. Google the Triangle Shirt Factory fire in NYC and read that story there were HUNDREDS of employers just like them. Workers in america died at work and suffered, there were children working in factories before unions stopped it and child labor laws were written.
I could go on and sing many praises of Unions across the country. That was then and this is now however.


In NJ the head of the NJEA the state teachers union makes over 500,000 per year plus expense acct, plus over 100,000 a year in benefits. Then theres Vice Presidents etc.


Some states teachers pay is very low, florida is one of them, some states teachers pay is more than adequate, " The entire northeast" my daughter makes 94,000 a year for 180 days of school, less 12 days vacation, 3 personal leave days and 12 sick days, that does not count cadillac benefits and pension.

The point is not all teachers are underpaid many are more than adequately compensated

Unions have become bloated and for the most part ineffective, BUT on the flip side, "right to work" translates into right to work for nothing. The south is notorious for underpaid employees with no benefits. Cops up north wouldnt put on a uniform for what some depts are paid in the south. Most right to work states suck and employers take advantage of the workers.

Politicians in fla try to tell us that workers are compensated by the cost of living. BULL$#@!, the cost of food in fla is damn near the same as it is in NY or NJ or conn maybe slightly lower on some items because of reduced shipping costs. Prices in Walmart, Macys, JC penny, Sears are all the same, when a floridian sheriffs deputy buys something online he pays the same as a NYC Cop who makes 3 or 4 times more than he does.

Right to Work--Unions, both suck one is employers the other is by Unions. There is a need for Employee representation and you wont get it from govt.

The richest citizens in florida and much of the south are Northern an central state retirees, western retirees head to arizona and nevada etc, and that when you think about it, that sums up Right to work States

[DGUtley]

I'm surprised some governor hasn't gone all Ronald Reagan/Air Traffic Controller Union on them.

[Standing Wolf]

Right now, citizens - at least here in Arizona - are not prepared to see increased taxes to pay for higher teacher salaries until a full accounting has been made of the money allotted to the schools now. School superintendents here receive an annual salary of around $150,000, and we have more than a dozen districts with only one school in them. District consolidation and a serious look at whether all the administrators - with their staffs, expenses accounts and taxpayer-provided cars - are really needed to accomplish the mission are things that need to be addressed before any more dollars are poured down the rathole.

Teacher accountability is another serious concern. There are teachers who do an outstanding job and probably deserve twice the money they're getting now. There are other teachers who just phone it in and are nothing but glorified babysitters. A system that pays all teachers with comparable credentials and seniority the same salary, regardless of demonstrated competency and effectiveness, is suspect at best.