The DNC Wants A Refund From Hillary Clinton

[RadioGod]

The USA was never a "nation" to begin with. It barely qualifies as a coherent federation. In reality, it's just a disparate smattering of individuals and communities being ruled over by a centralized leviathan in Washington DC, who are mere puppets of the financial interests in NYC and London. This is exactly what "anti-federalists" said would happen if the constitution was ratified, and what Jefferson said would happen if Hamilton and his faction took control of the government.

True, that's how it was supposed to be, individual states in combined co-operation with each other in terms of basic human rights and liberties, and mutual self-defense. But through states wanting federal funding, laws and rules that some states normally would never have adopted on their own because of the costs, the spirit of the seperation of states rights have been trashed.

[RadioGod]

Genuine democracy is limited by its scale. Once it becomes too large, it ceases to be democratic. That is why broad-based democracy can only occur within the context of decentralization or federalism.

I don't think I can agree with that statement. In the past, recording individual votes would have been an impossible nightmare. But with todays technology, it is not only possible, but a travesty that it hasn't happened yet. The constitution could be ammended to have purely democratic voting, but it would do away with at least one house of congress. The representatives that vote on our behalf would no longer be necessary. Might save us all alot of money and bs.

[Ethereal]

True, that's how it was supposed to be, individual states in combined co-operation with each other in terms of basic human rights and liberties, and mutual self-defense. But through states wanting federal funding, laws and rules that some states normally would never have adopted on their own because of the costs, the spirit of the seperation of states rights have been trashed.

Consolidated government has always been the enemy of democracy and liberty. Every ruling class in history has invariably pursued further consolidation of political authority, for obvious reasons. Yet people continue to be fooled by this ruse, even going so far as to cheer their own enslavement under the false banner of "unity".

[Ethereal]

I don't think I can agree with that statement. In the past, recording individual votes would have been an impossible nightmare. But with todays technology, it is not only possible, but a travesty that it hasn't happened yet. The constitution could be ammended to have purely democratic voting, but it would do away with at least one house of congress. The representatives that vote on our behalf would no longer be necessary. Might save us all alot of money and bs.

Democracy is not just about voting for politicians. Indeed, one could argue that politicians would not exist in genuine democracy.

Democracy is also about shared identity and equal participation.

Voting for complete strangers who will rule over you from afar every two or four years is not my idea of democracy. It certainly tries to give the appearance of democracy, but simply look at the results. Do you feel like you're in charge of your political destiny? And do you think consolidating the country into one, big pseudo-democracy will make things better? Your vote is already highly diluted at the State level. Just think of how meaningless your vote will become once it's thrown into a pool of over 100,000,000 people who you don't even know.

[RadioGod]

Consolidated government has always been the enemy of democracy and liberty. Every ruling class in history has invariably pursued further consolidation of political authority, for obvious reasons. Yet people continue to be fooled by this ruse, even going so far as to cheer their own enslavement under the false banner of "unity".

I have to agree with you there. Newton's law of politics, a person in power tends to stay in power I also agree on the populations cheering on their own enslavement. We are definitely economic slaves here in the US, albeit better off than most countries. But it's because we have lived so long under abuses to freedoms that we don't know anything else. And since the American memory and attention span on the whole has atrophied into plain retard-mode, I expect nothing to get better. But here I am posting on a political forum

[RadioGod]

Democracy is not just about voting for politicians. Indeed, one could argue that politicians would not exist in genuine democracy.

Democracy is also about shared identity and values and equal participation.

Voting for complete strangers who will rule over you from afar every two or four years is not my idea of democracy. It certainly tries to give the appearance of democracy, but simply look at the results. Do you feel like you're in charge of your political destiny? And do you think consolidating the country into one, big pseudo-democracy will make things better? Your vote is already highly diluted at the State level. Just think of how meaningless your vote will become once it's thrown into a pool of over 100,000,000 people who you don't even know.

LOL You are definitely preaching to the choir on that one. Maybe this topic needs it's own thread- ammending the constitution for democracy.

[Ethereal]

LOL You are definitely preaching to the choir on that one. Maybe this topic needs it's own thread- ammending the constitution for democracy.

If the OP thinks we're going off topic, then I'll gladly stop. But I think we're okay.

Anyway, if you want genuine democracy in America, then the constitution must be abolished, not simply amended.

So long there is a central government ruling over the entire country, real democracy will not be possible.

[RadioGod]

If the OP thinks we're going off topic, then I'll gladly stop. But I think we're okay.

Anyway, if you want genuine democracy in America, then the constitution must be abolished, not simply amended.

So long there is a central government ruling over the entire country, real democracy will not be possible.

Yeah, you are right. It would be a "more perfect union" if individual votes could be counted, but it would necessetate a constitutional overhaul. I would definitely want to see the bill of rights left in there and maybe clarified more. Issues like gun rights are still being argued, and nobody seems to remember that is also a 9th ammendment issue too. Any rights or liberties not specifically mentioned or vague, automatically are supposed to be in the favor of the citizen. That alone would change the 2nd ammendment arguements.
But I think it would be enough to change the seperation of powers and elections. We could still use an executive office and a court, and maybe still 2 senators from each state to propose bill for people to vote on and have debates on cspan. I think I would also like to see proposed bills be on one issue only, so they don't put school lunches on the same bill as funding subversive groups to overthrow another country.
Aside from this being totally unrealistic because it would require an overthrow of the government, which won't happen unless we get teamed up on by the rest of the planet, I wonder what a large, true democracy would look like?

[Ransom]

The DNC and Hillary Campaign colluded against Feel the Bern.

[Ethereal]

Yeah, you are right. It would be a "more perfect union" if individual votes could be counted, but it would necessetate a constitutional overhaul. I would definitely want to see the bill of rights left in there and maybe clarified more. Issues like gun rights are still being argued, and nobody seems to remember that is also a 9th ammendment issue too. Any rights or liberties not specifically mentioned or vague, automatically are supposed to be in the favor of the citizen. That alone would change the 2nd ammendment arguements.
But I think it would be enough to change the seperation of powers and elections. We could still use an executive office and a court, and maybe still 2 senators from each state to propose bill for people to vote on and have debates on cspan. I think I would also like to see proposed bills be on one issue only, so they don't put school lunches on the same bill as funding subversive groups to overthrow another country.
Aside from this being totally unrealistic because it would require an overthrow of the government, which won't happen unless we get teamed up on by the rest of the planet, I wonder what a large, true democracy would look like?

Early America was pretty close, especially under the Articles of Confederation. The US Constitution was an aristocratic conspiracy designed by powerful lawyers, bankers, and industrialists to put a tight lid on democracy in America.