User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 137

Thread: Did Japan try to surrendur before we dropped the atomic bomb?

  1. #21
    Points: 9,194, Level: 22
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 56
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    RadioGod's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    925
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,630
    Points
    9,194
    Level
    22
    Thanks Given
    1,020
    Thanked 915x in 631 Posts
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    The firebombing of Tokyo killed more people than both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined and that did little to get a surrender. I firmly believe the allies were convinced Japan would fight to the last man, woman and child if attacked. There were no credible offers of surrender before the bombings. The citizens were warned an attack was imminent but most ignored the warnings. I did know one woman who was from Hiroshima and she told me her father had moved the family out of the city a week before the attack. So, they did know that unless they surrendered they would be bombed.

    We did what we had to do against a nation who woke the sleeping tiger and continued to poke it long after it was defending itself.
    I can definitely agree with all of that. I just think there was a little more to the rationale of using the bombs than just saving American lives.
    I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis

  2. #22
    Points: 84,798, Level: 70
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 52
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Just AnotherPerson's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    27584
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    11,128
    Points
    84,798
    Level
    70
    Thanks Given
    14,094
    Thanked 9,553x in 5,668 Posts
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    There was a group in the Japanese government who wanted to surrender but the military leadership would not allow it. Emperor Hirohito had very little control over the warlords who actually ran the country. The Japanese people weren't even told of the losses they were having and instead were told the Glorious Japanese Army was having success after success.

    It is bull$#@! to pretend we bombed Japan because we were racist and I despise those who want to promote that narrative.
    I appreciate the first paragraph but racism, definitely not. I don't mention racism at all.

  3. #23
    Points: 84,798, Level: 70
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 52
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Just AnotherPerson's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    27584
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    11,128
    Points
    84,798
    Level
    70
    Thanks Given
    14,094
    Thanked 9,553x in 5,668 Posts
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    The firebombing of Tokyo killed more people than both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined and that did little to get a surrender. I firmly believe the allies were convinced Japan would fight to the last man, woman and child if attacked. There were no credible offers of surrender before the bombings. The citizens were warned an attack was imminent but most ignored the warnings. I did know one woman who was from Hiroshima and she told me her father had moved the family out of the city a week before the attack. So, they did know that unless they surrendered they would be bombed.

    We did what we had to do against a nation who woke the sleeping tiger and continued to poke it long after it was defending itself.

    That was a good post.

  4. #24
    Points: 9,194, Level: 22
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 56
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    RadioGod's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    925
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,630
    Points
    9,194
    Level
    22
    Thanks Given
    1,020
    Thanked 915x in 631 Posts
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Japanese cities had been bombed and fire bombed for months prior to the atomic drops. Japan was also blockaded and starving. One make the argument that the atomic drops saved lives regardless of a ground invasion.
    This seems counter-intuitive to me. They were already fire bombed, blockaded, and starving- so we nuked them?
    The facts you presented are true. No doubt in my mind. But when I look at this decision about using a nuclear weapon, I can't help but see it from the mindset of the growing military industrial complex. This might be their only chance to use the bomb on a live target with an active military and civilian population. They had 2 kinds of bombs, and they used one of each. The science involved was huge. And where future government contracts and big money come into the equation, morality and excuses for a lack thereof come into play. Even our international diplomacy and commercial ventures had an edge in the world after the bomb. It's like the old joke- What do you let an 800lb. gorilla do? Anything it wants.
    I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis

  5. #25
    Original Ranter
    Points: 297,248, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    416461
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    117,673
    Points
    297,248
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    25,273
    Thanked 53,406x in 36,393 Posts
    Mentioned
    1102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RadioGod View Post
    This seems counter-intuitive to me. They were already fire bombed, blockaded, and starving- so we nuked them?
    The facts you presented are true. No doubt in my mind. But when I look at this decision about using a nuclear weapon, I can't help but see it from the mindset of the growing military industrial complex. This might be their only chance to use the bomb on a live target with an active military and civilian population. They had 2 kinds of bombs, and they used one of each. The science involved was huge. And where future government contracts and big money come into the equation, morality and excuses for a lack thereof come into play. Even our international diplomacy and commercial ventures had an edge in the world after the bomb. It's like the old joke- What do you let an 800lb. gorilla do? Anything it wants.
    We could have continued the conventional bombing campaign and the blockade. Either way, the results would have been the same: dead civilians. But we chose to employ a potential war winner and demobilize as quickly as possible.

    Not sure why this particular event is singled out in a war full of atrocities.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  6. #26
    Points: 84,441, Level: 70
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 409
    Overall activity: 20.0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    Captdon's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    12814
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Charleston South Carolina
    Posts
    38,260
    Points
    84,441
    Level
    70
    Thanks Given
    67,633
    Thanked 12,825x in 10,123 Posts
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RadioGod View Post
    This seems counter-intuitive to me. They were already fire bombed, blockaded, and starving- so we nuked them?
    The facts you presented are true. No doubt in my mind. But when I look at this decision about using a nuclear weapon, I can't help but see it from the mindset of the growing military industrial complex. This might be their only chance to use the bomb on a live target with an active military and civilian population. They had 2 kinds of bombs, and they used one of each. The science involved was huge. And where future government contracts and big money come into the equation, morality and excuses for a lack thereof come into play. Even our international diplomacy and commercial ventures had an edge in the world after the bomb. It's like the old joke- What do you let an 800lb. gorilla do? Anything it wants.
    What has a live target have to do with any of it. When the desert test worked we had what we needed.

    We used the only two bombs we had at the time.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Captdon For This Useful Post:

    MisterVeritis (06-04-2018)

  8. #27
    Points: 158,710, Level: 95
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 2,940
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdrive50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupVeteran
    Green Arrow's Avatar Overlord
    Karma
    620067
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    47,841
    Points
    158,710
    Level
    95
    Thanks Given
    54,414
    Thanked 24,816x in 16,297 Posts
    Mentioned
    1674 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abby08 View Post
    They drew first blood, whatever we did to them after that, was justified.
    Morally? No ma’am, that’s not how that works.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Green Arrow For This Useful Post:

    Dr. Who (06-06-2018),RadioGod (06-04-2018)

  10. #28
    Points: 79,997, Level: 68
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 53
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    77960
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    In a house on a hill
    Posts
    28,260
    Points
    79,997
    Level
    68
    Thanks Given
    7,102
    Thanked 16,261x in 10,568 Posts
    Mentioned
    129 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RadioGod View Post
    This seems counter-intuitive to me. They were already fire bombed, blockaded, and starving- so we nuked them?
    The facts you presented are true. No doubt in my mind. But when I look at this decision about using a nuclear weapon, I can't help but see it from the mindset of the growing military industrial complex. This might be their only chance to use the bomb on a live target with an active military and civilian population. They had 2 kinds of bombs, and they used one of each. The science involved was huge. And where future government contracts and big money come into the equation, morality and excuses for a lack thereof come into play. Even our international diplomacy and commercial ventures had an edge in the world after the bomb. It's like the old joke- What do you let an 800lb. gorilla do? Anything it wants.
    The firebombing of Tokyo killed over 100,000 Japanese civilians while the atomic bombs on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed 79,000 total. It could therefore be said that since the atomic bombs brought Japan to its knees in a way firebombing could not we actually saved Japanese lives as well. Japanese houses were made of paper and wood. Japan is densely populated. Any additional firebombing would have lead to incalculable loss of life.

  11. #29
    Points: 79,997, Level: 68
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 53
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    77960
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    In a house on a hill
    Posts
    28,260
    Points
    79,997
    Level
    68
    Thanks Given
    7,102
    Thanked 16,261x in 10,568 Posts
    Mentioned
    129 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    Morally? No ma’am, that’s not how that works.
    All's fair in love and war

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to nathanbforrest45 For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (06-04-2018)

  13. #30
    Points: 9,194, Level: 22
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 56
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    RadioGod's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    925
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,630
    Points
    9,194
    Level
    22
    Thanks Given
    1,020
    Thanked 915x in 631 Posts
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    The firebombing of Tokyo killed over 100,000 Japanese civilians while the atomic bombs on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed 79,000 total. It could therefore be said that since the atomic bombs brought Japan to its knees in a way firebombing could not we actually saved Japanese lives as well. Japanese houses were made of paper and wood. Japan is densely populated. Any additional firebombing would have lead to incalculable loss of life.
    OK, that is an argument that gives me pause. Well said.
    I live with a profound happiness that can only be achieved by being hated by Mr.Veritis

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to RadioGod For This Useful Post:

    Just AnotherPerson (06-04-2018)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts