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Thread: Democracy is not dead...... It never lived!

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Mob rule
    That "mob", being the people. Whatever happened to by the people, of the people, for the people?
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    We need to protect individual rights within any viable form of government. Kind of the opposite of what is happening here , now.
    I see the republican system we currently have is mixed with some socialism. It does not protect individual rights, quite the opposite, in fact. Rights to property are continuously erroded with more taxes and fees. Those will only continue to compund as rich legislators run out of money to pilfer. Rights to privacy have been taking huge blows in the last decade, and they look to get rid of privacy altogether within the next couple years. The way the government is going, not under Obama or Trump, but under pressure from corporations who will profit and control their source of profit(the people and govt.), I see it maybe becoming an actual crime to try and keep something private.
    I think a democracy would do far better towards promoting individual rights, I think people, given a chance for a direct vote, would always come down on the side of less regulations and more rights. The only exception being corporate corruption and pollution. For those that hate big government, they would probably appreciate what would happen if the people all voted on the national budget. Corporate subsidies-Gone. That's probably half of the budget right there alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    Whatever that means.

    I voted for the President, a Senator, a House member, a state Senator, a state House member, a County councilman,and a tax issue. Seems my democratic right to vote is pretty solid.

    All of my rights are intact.
    At least they appear to be. But, if all those elected officials are focused on protecting the percieved rights of a large business to profit on US citizens and turn them into a cash-cow, and is extra focused on bringing foreign governments to their knees to fleece their resources and cheap labor, they are not worried at all about your rights. Except how to best pass rules and regulations that let them quasi-legally bypass your rights. But, if you believe your right to vote for representatives to talk and vote on your behalf is the only right you should have, then you are correct. That right is intact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioGod View Post
    That "mob", being the people. Whatever happened to by the people, of the people, for the people?
    Would you like what's going on in College Campuses or some other PC fad to become law tomorrow? Before the people comes the person and his or her inalienable rights. Period! Beyond that I'd be OK with direct votes for certain laws. However, you have an uneducated lazy voter base that gives 95% of their votes to those who have already failed them . That would need to be fixed and with the feds in charge of education that ain't gonna happen. You also have representatives that can't even read laws ( often written by the industry they apply to) before voting on them and that's their job.
    With today's technology there are items that could be brought before the public as municipalities do which I would support after an automatic Constitutionality review.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Would you like what's going on in College Campuses or some other PC fad to become law tomorrow? Before the people comes the person and his or her inalienable rights. Period! Beyond that I'd be OK with direct votes for certain laws. However, you have an uneducated lazy voter base that gives 95% of their votes to those who have already failed them . That would need to be fixed and with the feds in charge of education that ain't gonna happen. You also have representatives that can't even read laws ( often written by the industry they apply to) before voting on them and that's their job.
    With today's technology there are items that could be brought before the public as municipalities do which I would support after an automatic Constitutionality review.
    You do make a good point with the college activism-type fads. Hopefully they would be outvoted. But all it would take is one bad voting episode by an uneducated public, and I'm sure we would all start to educate ourselves really quick. We could still have our bill of rights and a court. I'm sure the court could shoot down legislation that violated constitutional rights just as easily as they do today. Really the only problem I see in the constitution is the election process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Would you like what's going on in College Campuses or some other PC fad to become law tomorrow? Before the people comes the person and his or her inalienable rights. Period! Beyond that I'd be OK with direct votes for certain laws. However, you have an uneducated lazy voter base that gives 95% of their votes to those who have already failed them . That would need to be fixed and with the feds in charge of education that ain't gonna happen. You also have representatives that can't even read laws ( often written by the industry they apply to) before voting on them and that's their job.
    With today's technology there are items that could be brought before the public as municipalities do which I would support after an automatic Constitutionality review.

    I do have a thought on this
    And I understand what you are saying completely. Your worry is not without reason.

    I believe that just giving the people a right to vote "for reals" would change them. For instance back in the cowboy days a boy of 12 was more like a man, what I mean by that is more mature. boys of today are not more like a man until about age 30 give or take.


    The reason is, is that they used to have more responsibilities, so they were more serious and had a sense of duty and responsibility. If we gave our children and I mean 18 year olds here the sense that they were "really" part of something great then they might not act like they do now. They may develop into more mature beings.

    They might not be the easily brain washed hooligans that they are now. Some college kids are more interested in beer bonging than voting. I am sure that those extremely immature children will not be participating in voting anyways they will be too hung over to make it to the voting booths. So in a way they are not really a threat to true democracy.

    But to those who do find a sense of duty, a sense of true responsibility then they may be more mature in mind much earlier than normal. In allowing them their rights we might help to shape them in to better human beings and that will begin to change our nation. Because those younglings are eventually going to be the ones who are the adults and have control of all of this. Why not take the time to teach them what it means to be a real man (adult). We don't want them to grow up with a complex feeling they have no rights, then the result is occupy wallstreeters. But we can change that by making them men.

    By the way when I say men I mean all man kind and being with adult mind after 18 or so. So women are not left out here. Since I myself am a woman. I am just giving an example.

    We don't know because we haven't given them the chance.
    Last edited by Just AnotherPerson; 06-06-2018 at 03:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    Whatever that means.

    I voted for the President, a Senator, a House member, a state Senator, a state House member, a County councilman,and a tax issue. Seems my democratic right to vote is pretty solid.

    All of my rights are intact.

    Well no popular vote should be able to change free speech, gun rights, due process, state's (supposed) rights. For example. Since even abortion is a conflict between the individual right of a woman and the same right that opponents extend to fetuses it could not be solved by popular vote. Our Republic has to do with much more than just electing representatives.
    Speaking of your right to vote being in tact do you know if the people you elect actually vote the wishes of their district? If not we are facing a form of "taxation without representation"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I do have a thought on this

    I believe that just giving the people a right to vote "for reals" would change them. For instance back in the cowboy days a boy of 12 was more like a man, what I mean by that is more mature. boys of today are not more like a man until about age 30 give or take.


    The reason is, is that they used to have more responsibilities, so they were more serious and had a sense of duty and responsibility. If we gave our children and I mean 18 year olds here the sense that they were "really" part of something great then they might not act like they do now. They may develop into more mature beings.

    They might not be the easily brain washed hooligans that they are now. Some college kids are more interested in beer bonging than voting. I am sure that those extremely immature children will not be participating in voting anyways they will be too hung over to make it to the voting booths. So in a way they are not really a threat to true democracy.

    But to those who do find a sense of duty, a sense of true responsibility then they may be more mature in mind much earlier than normal. In allowing them their rights we might help to shape them in to better human beings and that will begin to change our nation. Because those younglings are eventually going to be the ones who are the adults and have control of all of this. Why not take the time to teach them what it means to be a real man (adult). We don't want them to grow up with a complex feeling they have no rights, then the result is occupy wallstreeters. But we can change that by making them men.

    By the way when I say men I mean all man kind and being with adult mind after 18 or so. So women are not left out here. Since I myself am a woman. I am just giving an example.

    We don't know because we haven't given them the chance.
    Without a doubt, a democracy would be scary for awhile. We would still need some kind of checks and balances. We shouldn't just defund the entire military, for example. But we could vote on it's budget. We could get rid of the House of Reps, and just keep the Senate? Someone has to propose changes or new legislation from the State level. Definitely keep the courts. We'd still need a President. What I think would be awesome is when they released some crazy 1500 page bill full of earmarks. It would only happen once, I bet. I also see an issue here when 1 State could submit a bill for everyone to vote on at the Federal level, maybe there should be some sort of Senate session where they can argue it out in public and vote to forward it to a public vote. That is still a restriction on democracy, but it would be a minor check compared to what we have now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Well no popular vote should be able to change free speech, gun rights, due process, state's (supposed) rights. For example. Since even abortion is a conflict between the individual right of a woman and the same right that opponents extend to fetuses it could not be solved by popular vote. Our Republic has to do with much more than just electing representatives.
    Speaking of your right to vote being in tact do you know if the people you elect actually vote the wishes of their district? If not we are facing a form of "taxation without representation"
    I would actually agree with every single thing you said. That makes more sense than what I was thinking. I think you just schooled me State's rights Should take the forefront. There would be conservative and liberal states, and by just choosing where we live we could all be more content. But you are right, any attack whatsoever on our basic idividual rights should be shot down. That could be the job of the Senators. If something passed that was still questionable, let a highly conservative, rights-centered court look at it.
    I do feel we are being taxed without our proper representation. I would dare say we are being taxed while our representatives purposefully represent our economic and moral oppressors.
    Last edited by RadioGod; 06-06-2018 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I do have a thought on this
    And I understand what you are saying completely. Your worry is not without reason.

    I believe that just giving the people a right to vote "for reals" would change them. For instance back in the cowboy days a boy of 12 was more like a man, what I mean by that is more mature. boys of today are not more like a man until about age 30 give or take.


    The reason is, is that they used to have more responsibilities, so they were more serious and had a sense of duty and responsibility. If we gave our children and I mean 18 year olds here the sense that they were "really" part of something great then they might not act like they do now. They may develop into more mature beings.

    They might not be the easily brain washed hooligans that they are now. Some college kids are more interested in beer bonging than voting. I am sure that those extremely immature children will not be participating in voting anyways they will be too hung over to make it to the voting booths. So in a way they are not really a threat to true democracy.

    But to those who do find a sense of duty, a sense of true responsibility then they may be more mature in mind much earlier than normal. In allowing them their rights we might help to shape them in to better human beings and that will begin to change our nation. Because those younglings are eventually going to be the ones who are the adults and have control of all of this. Why not take the time to teach them what it means to be a real man (adult). We don't want them to grow up with a complex feeling they have no rights, then the result is occupy wallstreeters. But we can change that by making them men.

    By the way when I say men I mean all man kind and being with adult mind after 18 or so. So women are not left out here. Since I myself am a woman. I am just giving an example.

    We don't know because we haven't given them the chance.

    I think much of the then 12 year old's maturity had to do with the fact that by that age most kids had all the education and training to run the farm for example. Today "kids" don't have the carerr knowledge they need until nearly twice that age in many cases.

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