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Thread: Democracy Or Constitutional Republic?

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    Democracy Or Constitutional Republic?

    The left is worried about their democracy. They claim Trump is destroying it. Dictionary.com says a "DEMOCRACY" is,


    "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
    Actually, our founders never intended to create a democracy. Our founders understood that often the definition of a democracy is synonymous with "mob." So, our founders having little trust in mob rule or collective humanity in general and particularly the collective of government humans. They knew government was force by definition and corruption by nature. The BIGGER the government the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.


    So, here's what our founders thought would be the best of governing. Dictionary.com says a REPUBLIC is,


    "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."


    The founders liked that model best and further attached it to a written Constitution, i.e. written guarantee from government to the people of their rights, immunities and privileges and in that Constitution laid out the separate powers of the 3 branches of the government. Thus, the United States is actually not a democracy at all, it's a "Constitutional Republic." The people's representatives pledge their loyalty to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution." Notice there is no pledge required as a loyalty to the majority of the people. representatives are required by oath to ignore the whims and wishes of the majority populace whenever their rants, demonstrations, wants and whims are contrary to the rule of law within the Constitution. Judges are required to fully understand the text and direction of the Constitution and issue their decisions based in the logical and truthful textual meanings in the Constitution and to interpret the written law and decide its fidelity to the Constitution. The executive power of government is to be authorized and harnessed by the Constitution only, Article 2 U.S. Constitution.
    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

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    jet57's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    The left is worried about their democracy. They claim Trump is destroying it. Dictionary.com says a "DEMOCRACY" is,


    "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
    Actually, our founders never intended to create a democracy. Our founders understood that often the definition of a democracy is synonymous with "mob." So, our founders having little trust in mob rule or collective humanity in general and particularly the collective of government humans. They knew government was force by definition and corruption by nature. The BIGGER the government the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.


    So, here's what our founders thought would be the best of governing. Dictionary.com says a REPUBLIC is,


    "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."


    The founders liked that model best and further attached it to a written Constitution, i.e. written guarantee from government to the people of their rights, immunities and privileges and in that Constitution laid out the separate powers of the 3 branches of the government. Thus, the United States is actually not a democracy at all, it's a "Constitutional Republic." The people's representatives pledge their loyalty to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution." Notice there is no pledge required as a loyalty to the majority of the people. representatives are required by oath to ignore the whims and wishes of the majority populace whenever their rants, demonstrations, wants and whims are contrary to the rule of law within the Constitution. Judges are required to fully understand the text and direction of the Constitution and issue their decisions based in the logical and truthful textual meanings in the Constitution and to interpret the written law and decide its fidelity to the Constitution. The executive power of government is to be authorized and harnessed by the Constitution only, Article 2 U.S. Constitution.
    So what's the difference between your fist definition: "government by the people" and your second: "supreme power rests in the body of the people"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    So what's the difference between your fist definition: "government by the people" and your second: "supreme power rests in the body of the people"?
    Directness. Government by the people demands regular effort by the people. It fails every time it is tried. It will fail this time.

    Supreme power resting in the hands of the people implies that the people vote for others who will represent them in making useful laws. The people can drink beer and watch sports on TV. Their representatives will put forth the regular effort required to determine, write, and pass useful laws.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    I don't really see a significant difference between democracy and republic. Sure, one is more direct, one more indirect, through representation, but the means of legislating and even adjudicating is by majority vote in both. It could be argued that more indirect representation leads to professional politicians whose stake in the game is not the pursuit of happiness, say, of the people but their own power which they sell as fovors to rent seekers. The end result is legislation that favor only the few who can afford to lobby for those favors.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    The left is worried about their democracy. They claim Trump is destroying it. Dictionary.com says a "DEMOCRACY" is,


    "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
    Actually, our founders never intended to create a democracy. Our founders understood that often the definition of a democracy is synonymous with "mob." So, our founders having little trust in mob rule or collective humanity in general and particularly the collective of government humans. They knew government was force by definition and corruption by nature. The BIGGER the government the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.


    So, here's what our founders thought would be the best of governing. Dictionary.com says a REPUBLIC is,


    "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."


    The founders liked that model best and further attached it to a written Constitution, i.e. written guarantee from government to the people of their rights, immunities and privileges and in that Constitution laid out the separate powers of the 3 branches of the government. Thus, the United States is actually not a democracy at all, it's a "Constitutional Republic." The people's representatives pledge their loyalty to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution." Notice there is no pledge required as a loyalty to the majority of the people. representatives are required by oath to ignore the whims and wishes of the majority populace whenever their rants, demonstrations, wants and whims are contrary to the rule of law within the Constitution. Judges are required to fully understand the text and direction of the Constitution and issue their decisions based in the logical and truthful textual meanings in the Constitution and to interpret the written law and decide its fidelity to the Constitution. The executive power of government is to be authorized and harnessed by the Constitution only, Article 2 U.S. Constitution.

    True absolute democracy is mob rule, in part, because it catches whims and herd choices rather than real wishes because it takes little time to make poorly thought out changes. On the other hand we have tyrannical rule by two parties pretending to be one so currently we have neither democracy nor anything that functions like a Constitutional Republic.

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    Does the constitution mention anywhere of what to do if all forms of government are corrupt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by barb012 View Post
    Does the constitution mention anywhere of what to do if all forms of government are corrupt?
    A declaration of independence covers that. Hmm. It is the fourth of July.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    All citizens of age have the franchise, therefore it is a democracy. As citizens vote for representatives nominated by parties, it is a representative democracy. The term republic is fairly meaningless in real terms, as it merely describes nation without a monarchy. There are oligarchic and autocratic republics and adding the adjective 'constitutional' merely denotes the existence of a constitution within the said republic.

    A more accurate description of the US would be a Federal Democratic Constitutional Republic.
    "And after briefly dipping his toes in the waters of reason, the man with no brain scampers off, to frolic on the shores of Insanity Beach" ~ Rik Mayall (RIP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    All citizens of age have the franchise, therefore it is a democracy. As citizens vote for representatives nominated by parties, it is a representative democracy. The term republic is fairly meaningless in real terms, as it merely describes nation without a monarchy. There are oligarchic and autocratic republics and adding the adjective 'constitutional' merely denotes the existence of a constitution within the said republic.

    A more accurate description of the US would be a Federal Democratic Constitutional Republic.
    You err.

    If we had a democracy every law would be voted on by every legitimate voter.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You err.

    If we had a democracy every law would be voted on by every legitimate voter.
    That would be true if we adopted the Athenian model of full democracy, but modern nations are too large for such an undertaking, therefore we opt for representative democracy as previously stated.
    "And after briefly dipping his toes in the waters of reason, the man with no brain scampers off, to frolic on the shores of Insanity Beach" ~ Rik Mayall (RIP)

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