User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 79

Thread: Democracy Or Constitutional Republic?

  1. #1
    Points: 3,680, Level: 14
    Level completed: 26%, Points required for next Level: 370
    Overall activity: 9.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Robo's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    305
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    436
    Points
    3,680
    Level
    14
    Thanks Given
    40
    Thanked 295x in 182 Posts
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Democracy Or Constitutional Republic?

    The left is worried about their democracy. They claim Trump is destroying it. Dictionary.com says a "DEMOCRACY" is,


    "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
    Actually, our founders never intended to create a democracy. Our founders understood that often the definition of a democracy is synonymous with "mob." So, our founders having little trust in mob rule or collective humanity in general and particularly the collective of government humans. They knew government was force by definition and corruption by nature. The BIGGER the government the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.


    So, here's what our founders thought would be the best of governing. Dictionary.com says a REPUBLIC is,


    "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."


    The founders liked that model best and further attached it to a written Constitution, i.e. written guarantee from government to the people of their rights, immunities and privileges and in that Constitution laid out the separate powers of the 3 branches of the government. Thus, the United States is actually not a democracy at all, it's a "Constitutional Republic." The people's representatives pledge their loyalty to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution." Notice there is no pledge required as a loyalty to the majority of the people. representatives are required by oath to ignore the whims and wishes of the majority populace whenever their rants, demonstrations, wants and whims are contrary to the rule of law within the Constitution. Judges are required to fully understand the text and direction of the Constitution and issue their decisions based in the logical and truthful textual meanings in the Constitution and to interpret the written law and decide its fidelity to the Constitution. The executive power of government is to be authorized and harnessed by the Constitution only, Article 2 U.S. Constitution.
    Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The Bigger the government the greater the force and the greater the corruption.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Robo For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (07-05-2018),MisterVeritis (07-04-2018),Peter1469 (07-04-2018)

  3. #2
    Points: 4,076, Level: 15
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 474
    Overall activity: 20.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    jet57's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    204
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,027
    Points
    4,076
    Level
    15
    Thanks Given
    160
    Thanked 194x in 140 Posts
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    The left is worried about their democracy. They claim Trump is destroying it. Dictionary.com says a "DEMOCRACY" is,


    "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
    Actually, our founders never intended to create a democracy. Our founders understood that often the definition of a democracy is synonymous with "mob." So, our founders having little trust in mob rule or collective humanity in general and particularly the collective of government humans. They knew government was force by definition and corruption by nature. The BIGGER the government the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.


    So, here's what our founders thought would be the best of governing. Dictionary.com says a REPUBLIC is,


    "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."


    The founders liked that model best and further attached it to a written Constitution, i.e. written guarantee from government to the people of their rights, immunities and privileges and in that Constitution laid out the separate powers of the 3 branches of the government. Thus, the United States is actually not a democracy at all, it's a "Constitutional Republic." The people's representatives pledge their loyalty to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution." Notice there is no pledge required as a loyalty to the majority of the people. representatives are required by oath to ignore the whims and wishes of the majority populace whenever their rants, demonstrations, wants and whims are contrary to the rule of law within the Constitution. Judges are required to fully understand the text and direction of the Constitution and issue their decisions based in the logical and truthful textual meanings in the Constitution and to interpret the written law and decide its fidelity to the Constitution. The executive power of government is to be authorized and harnessed by the Constitution only, Article 2 U.S. Constitution.
    So what's the difference between your fist definition: "government by the people" and your second: "supreme power rests in the body of the people"?

  4. #3
    Points: 93,392, Level: 74
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 1,358
    Overall activity: 99.6%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassSocialVeteran
    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    282715
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Madison
    Posts
    45,559
    Points
    93,392
    Level
    74
    Thanks Given
    32,357
    Thanked 14,076x in 10,935 Posts
    Mentioned
    201 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    So what's the difference between your fist definition: "government by the people" and your second: "supreme power rests in the body of the people"?
    Directness. Government by the people demands regular effort by the people. It fails every time it is tried. It will fail this time.

    Supreme power resting in the hands of the people implies that the people vote for others who will represent them in making useful laws. The people can drink beer and watch sports on TV. Their representatives will put forth the regular effort required to determine, write, and pass useful laws.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to MisterVeritis For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (07-07-2018)

  6. #4
    Points: 420,289, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 100.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    391851
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    139,363
    Points
    420,289
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    13,490
    Thanked 39,419x in 29,181 Posts
    Mentioned
    1641 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    I don't really see a significant difference between democracy and republic. Sure, one is more direct, one more indirect, through representation, but the means of legislating and even adjudicating is by majority vote in both. It could be argued that more indirect representation leads to professional politicians whose stake in the game is not the pursuit of happiness, say, of the people but their own power which they sell as fovors to rent seekers. The end result is legislation that favor only the few who can afford to lobby for those favors.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (07-05-2018)

  8. #5
    Points: 95,832, Level: 75
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 1,518
    Overall activity: 21.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    78156
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    32,081
    Points
    95,832
    Level
    75
    Thanks Given
    4,435
    Thanked 10,121x in 7,606 Posts
    Mentioned
    200 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    The left is worried about their democracy. They claim Trump is destroying it. Dictionary.com says a "DEMOCRACY" is,


    "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."
    Actually, our founders never intended to create a democracy. Our founders understood that often the definition of a democracy is synonymous with "mob." So, our founders having little trust in mob rule or collective humanity in general and particularly the collective of government humans. They knew government was force by definition and corruption by nature. The BIGGER the government the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.


    So, here's what our founders thought would be the best of governing. Dictionary.com says a REPUBLIC is,


    "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."


    The founders liked that model best and further attached it to a written Constitution, i.e. written guarantee from government to the people of their rights, immunities and privileges and in that Constitution laid out the separate powers of the 3 branches of the government. Thus, the United States is actually not a democracy at all, it's a "Constitutional Republic." The people's representatives pledge their loyalty to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution." Notice there is no pledge required as a loyalty to the majority of the people. representatives are required by oath to ignore the whims and wishes of the majority populace whenever their rants, demonstrations, wants and whims are contrary to the rule of law within the Constitution. Judges are required to fully understand the text and direction of the Constitution and issue their decisions based in the logical and truthful textual meanings in the Constitution and to interpret the written law and decide its fidelity to the Constitution. The executive power of government is to be authorized and harnessed by the Constitution only, Article 2 U.S. Constitution.

    True absolute democracy is mob rule, in part, because it catches whims and herd choices rather than real wishes because it takes little time to make poorly thought out changes. On the other hand we have tyrannical rule by two parties pretending to be one so currently we have neither democracy nor anything that functions like a Constitutional Republic.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to donttread For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (07-05-2018)

  10. #6
    Points: 2,661, Level: 12
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 389
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    barb012's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    687
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    956
    Points
    2,661
    Level
    12
    Thanks Given
    676
    Thanked 677x in 430 Posts
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Does the constitution mention anywhere of what to do if all forms of government are corrupt?

  11. #7
    Points: 93,392, Level: 74
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 1,358
    Overall activity: 99.6%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassSocialVeteran
    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    282715
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Madison
    Posts
    45,559
    Points
    93,392
    Level
    74
    Thanks Given
    32,357
    Thanked 14,076x in 10,935 Posts
    Mentioned
    201 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by barb012 View Post
    Does the constitution mention anywhere of what to do if all forms of government are corrupt?
    A declaration of independence covers that. Hmm. It is the fourth of July.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

  12. #8
    Points: 328, Level: 3
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    31 days registered250 Experience Points
    Blues63's Avatar Junior Member
    Karma
    25
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    SPECTRE HQ
    Posts
    42
    Points
    328
    Level
    3
    Thanks Given
    21
    Thanked 15x in 12 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All citizens of age have the franchise, therefore it is a democracy. As citizens vote for representatives nominated by parties, it is a representative democracy. The term republic is fairly meaningless in real terms, as it merely describes nation without a monarchy. There are oligarchic and autocratic republics and adding the adjective 'constitutional' merely denotes the existence of a constitution within the said republic.

    A more accurate description of the US would be a Federal Democratic Constitutional Republic.
    "And after briefly dipping his toes in the waters of reason, the man with no brain scampers off, to frolic on the shores of Insanity Beach" ~ Rik Mayall (RIP)

  13. #9
    Points: 93,392, Level: 74
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 1,358
    Overall activity: 99.6%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassSocialVeteran
    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    282715
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Madison
    Posts
    45,559
    Points
    93,392
    Level
    74
    Thanks Given
    32,357
    Thanked 14,076x in 10,935 Posts
    Mentioned
    201 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    All citizens of age have the franchise, therefore it is a democracy. As citizens vote for representatives nominated by parties, it is a representative democracy. The term republic is fairly meaningless in real terms, as it merely describes nation without a monarchy. There are oligarchic and autocratic republics and adding the adjective 'constitutional' merely denotes the existence of a constitution within the said republic.

    A more accurate description of the US would be a Federal Democratic Constitutional Republic.
    You err.

    If we had a democracy every law would be voted on by every legitimate voter.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to MisterVeritis For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (07-10-2018)

  15. #10
    Points: 328, Level: 3
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    31 days registered250 Experience Points
    Blues63's Avatar Junior Member
    Karma
    25
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    SPECTRE HQ
    Posts
    42
    Points
    328
    Level
    3
    Thanks Given
    21
    Thanked 15x in 12 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You err.

    If we had a democracy every law would be voted on by every legitimate voter.
    That would be true if we adopted the Athenian model of full democracy, but modern nations are too large for such an undertaking, therefore we opt for representative democracy as previously stated.
    "And after briefly dipping his toes in the waters of reason, the man with no brain scampers off, to frolic on the shores of Insanity Beach" ~ Rik Mayall (RIP)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Critical Acclaim
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO