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Thread: Is Progressive Ideology Incompatible With The First Amendment?

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    Is Progressive Ideology Incompatible With The First Amendment?

    To me this question is difficult to answer because progressives define and frame free speech so differently than libertarians or even conservatives.

    According to Is Progressive Ideology Incompatible With The First Amendment?, progressives, represented here by Seldman, would answer progressivism is incompatible with free speech.

    A recent New York Times story claiming conservatives have “weaponized” free speech put the spotlight on a law review article by Georgetown law professor Louis Michael Seidman titled, “Can Free Speech Be Progressive?” Seidman’s answer to his question is “no.” He is probably not wrong, even if some of his arguments are.

    ...He writes that fundamentally, “free speech law is much more conducive to constitutionally required libertarianism” and “entrenches a social view at war with key progressive objectives.”...

    ...Seidman first objects that free speech is tied to the ownership of places and things – and that such ownership is largely private, corporate, and unequal....

    ...Seidman’s second objection is that the First Amendment “assumes that speech is ‘free’ when government ‘makes no laws,’ and that it is laws that have the potential to ‘abridge’ the freedom of speech.” In contrast, progressives believe “the government has a duty to act affirmatively to counterbalance private power and correct for the unfairness of market allocations,” including in the marketplace of ideas.

    ...Seidman’s final objection is that free speech law is concerned with government neutrality regarding content, viewpoint, and speaker. He observes that under classical liberalism, free speech is how political disputes get resolved; thus, “the Constitution is supposed to provide the mechanism by which people with opposing views can settle their disagreements through law rather than power.” In contrast, Seidman asserts progressivism cannot be neutral, because it has already decided the answers.

    ...
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    When has this nation ever had free speech? As my first and only exhibit I present the late George Carlin:


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    Progressivism is incompatible with the Constitution.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Modern day conservatives and liberals are incompatible with the Constitution, but the left is specifically incompatible with the Constitution in regards to the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

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    It seems to me that liberals only want free speech that they agree with and to hell with everyone else. That is dangerous to our society and it will be dangerous to them when their political figures no longer agree with them in the future. They do not have a clue that they are being catered to their beliefs by the left as they are being used by them right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barb012 View Post
    It seems to me that liberals only want free speech that they agree with and to hell with everyone else. That is dangerous to our society and it will be dangerous to them when their political figures no longer agree with them in the future. They do not have a clue that they are being catered to their beliefs by the left as they are being used by them right now.
    Precisely: "In contrast, Seidman asserts progressivism cannot be neutral, because it has already decided the answers."
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Free speech protections apply to black N.F.L. players who kneel while working at the job site.

    Free speech protections do not apply to a McDonalds employee who, while working at the job site, tells a potential customer to eat at Burger King.

    Free speech protections apply to Madonna who says she thought about blowing up the white house.

    Free speech protections do not apply to conservatives, like Ann Coulter, who want to speak at Berkley.

    Regarding the N.F.L. players have any of them led a protest against police brutality in front of a police station or city hall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLLS View Post
    Free speech protections apply to black N.F.L. players who kneel while working at the job site.

    Free speech protections do not apply to a McDonalds employee who, while working at the job site, tells a potential customer to eat at Burger King.

    Free speech protections apply to Madonna who says she thought about blowing up the white house.

    Free speech protections do not apply to conservatives, like Ann Coulter, who want to speak at Berkley.

    Regarding the N.F.L. players have any of them led a protest against police brutality in front of a police station or city hall?

    Technically, er, politically, when it comes to the First Amendment, free speech is only protected against the government intruding upon it: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    Socially, I think we would all want to protect it even when we find the ideas expressed most offensive. For all opinions and ideas are offensive to some, but it's the only way we have we have to pursue truth.

    This guy gets it right:

    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Technically, er, politically, when it comes to the First Amendment, free speech is only protected against the government intruding upon it: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    Socially, I think we would all want to protect it even when we find the ideas expressed most offensive. For all opinions and ideas are offensive to some, but it's the only way we have we have to pursue truth.

    This guy gets it right:

    I love Jordan Peterson as he does speak the absolute truth. I am puzzled why this person did not understand what he said right off the bat as this is common sense.

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    It's not what people say; it's what people do when they are saying it that makes the problem and puts free speech on ton trial.

    Anti Vietnam war activists (by the hundreds of thousands) were not arrested for speaking out, they were arrested for rioting and injuring other people. In the south however, civil rights activists WERE arrested for what they said and killed as well because of it.

    Today's reincarnation of the "freedom of speech movement" however has both riotous involvement and is being used in order to persecute people: said speech can be offensive, but it is also a tool, a means to an end. Citizen's Untied is an excellent example of that. Now dark money from sources completely unknown, most probably foreign in a lot of cases, but corporate for sure, are using freedom of speech, as so ordered by the court, to further an agenda which more and more creates a divide and suppresses others.

    I have often thought that our enemies have using our constitution to beat us over the head and further their agenda and it's certainly working. The latest example of which is the 2016 presidential election.

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