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Thread: The Democrats’ Declaration of Dependence

  1. #21
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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    I'm no socialist but [you are a socialist] I do think some folks need help. Offer to help them through effective, monitored state run programs and the foothold for socialism goes away. But the "let them eat cake" attitude is what gives socialism it's perch
    You don't know it but you are a socialist, or if you prefer, a useful idiot. When was the last time you defended individual liberty, free-market capitalism, or the right to try and fail?
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Depends on how you define socialism. If you define it as Hayek and many other economists do, as central planning, then the R's, while saying they're against, in action very much support it. As O'Rourke put it: "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."

    You couldn't get much more opposite than Obama and Bush. But at the end of the day the same stuff happened under both admins.

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You don't know it but you are a socialist, or if you prefer, a useful idiot. When was the last time you defended individual liberty, free-market capitalism, or the right to try and fail?


    I defend individual liberty and the BOR's as a package deal all the time. I'd defend free market capitalism but thanks to megacorp greed, government and the incestous relationshop between the two it no longer exist
    In fact if you define political philosophy so stringently that supporting state run "hand up programs" makes me a socialist then NO political system exist in a form recognizable by it's definition .
    And in fact that is true. All modern systems are hybrids .
    We are lucky enough to have a blueprint in the Constitution and BOR's however social cons tend to forget that the "Enumerated Powers" apply to the federal government NOT the states. While the states must abide by the Constitution they are not shackled by the enumerated powers meant to keep the federal government from establishing the kind of central control it enjoys currently.
    So again by stringent definition what is OUR system at this time? It cannot be a Constitutional Republic if it does not follow the Constitution so what the hell are we? And if it cam be that then a guy who believes in a hand up can be a non-socialist

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You don't know it but you are a socialist, or if you prefer, a useful idiot. When was the last time you defended individual liberty, free-market capitalism, or the right to try and fail?

    People with legit points don't have to resort to unproked name calling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    I defend individual liberty and the BOR's as a package deal all the time.
    Really? I cannot recall ever seeing you strongly defend individual liberty or free-market capitalism.

    I'd defend free market capitalism but thanks to megacorp greed, government and the incestous relationshop between the two it no longer exist
    In other words, you won't and can't defend capitalism.

    In fact if you define political philosophy so stringently that supporting state run "hand up programs" makes me a socialist then NO political system exist in a form recognizable by it's definition .
    Right. If we define socialist practices as socialism then you are a socialist.
    And in fact that is true. All modern systems are hybrids .
    Any hybrid system is a socialist system.
    We are lucky enough to have a blueprint in the Constitution and BOR's however social cons tend to forget that the "Enumerated Powers" apply to the federal government NOT the states. While the states must abide by the Constitution they are not shackled by the enumerated powers meant to keep the federal government from establishing the kind of central control it enjoys currently.
    States also have Constitutions.

    So again by stringent definition what is OUR system at this time? It cannot be a Constitutional Republic if it does not follow the Constitution so what the hell are we? And if it cam be that then a guy who believes in a hand up can be a non-socialist
    We agree the United States is no longer a Constitutional Republic. But no, if you are a socialist, and you are, then simply saying you are not changes nothing.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    People with legit points don't have to resort to unproked name calling.
    Do you object to the label that Lenin (incorrectly) is identified as having put on people like you?

    You object to the socialist label but support the socialist programs. That sounds both useful and idiotic.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Dr. Strangelove's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Words like socialism and Marx do indeed seem to trigger very emotional reactions from the left that supports those things and the result is lashing out at the right. Why is that?
    That's easy! Because its a false equivalence!Its a go-to tactic the right uses, and has for years!
    As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. --H.L. Mencken,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post
    If the Socialists in the former Dem party don't want to answer for the issues of socialism every time it has been tried then that is fine.

    You should also to be consistent and cease the Nazi references to Trump and the GOP. Very recently you called them the "Reich Wing". That is the height of hypocrisy. What is outstanding is unlike the Dems openly calling themselves Socialist, no on in the GOP even compares themselves to Nazis, (why would they since the Nazis were a party of the left)>

    Bottom line not only doesn't Socialism work, not matter if it is applied by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao or Hitler, Castro, Chaves or even Jenny from the Block it also kills!


    Attachment 23889
    There you go again! Thanks for proving my point!
    As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. --H.L. Mencken,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
    That's easy! Because its a false equivalence!Its a go-to tactic the right uses, and has for years!
    I get it BUT the leader of your party said that SOCIALISM is your party’s future. So, how is it a false equivalence to call an apple an apple?
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Really? I cannot recall ever seeing you strongly defend individual liberty or free-market capitalism.


    In other words, you won't and can't defend capitalism.


    Right. If we define socialist practices as socialism then you are a socialist.

    Any hybrid system is a socialist system.


    States also have Constitutions.


    We agree the United States is no longer a Constitutional Republic. But no, if you are a socialist, and you are, then simply saying you are not changes nothing.

    1)I defend individual rights all the time and if you can't recall me referring to the BOR's as a package deal then you haven't read enough my post to comment on any of my patterns,

    2) I defend the concept pf capitalism but I will never defend the strangle hold the megacorps have on our political and economic systems. created through undue influence. For example when the big tobacco companies settled with 46 state's in something called the Master Settlement Agreement it was binding for small tobacco companies who were NOT involved. Just one small example.
    3) No I do not meet the definition of socialist by either rhetoric or deeds. Sorry.

    4) Then ALL systems are socialist which of course makes no sense.

    5) Yes states also have Constitutions. but since they are not the same as the American Constitution that only would matter if a state program violated their specific Constitution. So an interesting non-point telling me that you wrongly apply the federal limitations to the states. Which of course all social cons do.

    But no insults this time so you are teachable!

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