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Thread: Woman Canít Remember Where She Left Baby

  1. #31
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    CCitizen's Avatar Senior Member
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    Maybe she had post-partum depression and is insane. In my opinion, most people who commit murder are insane.

    George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believed that even the worst criminals must not be subject to cruel punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    It's really not idiotic if you know anything about medicine, neuroanatomy, psychology, or have ever read a basic Wikipedia article on postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis or hell, talked to a woman who has ever given birth to a child. That woman you have talked to at some point may not have experienced it herself, but I guarantee she knows plenty of moms who have.

    Memory is a really interesting, complex thing and it is impacted by hormones and psychiatric conditions. You've probably heard of "pregnancy brain"/"momnesia" and "chemo brain" before. During periods of stress, especially if there is an additional chemical process or psychiatric process going on, can lead to serious holes in a person's memory and ability to think clearly. Compound that with lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, and so forth.

    The woman in the OP was on drugs according to another member, which I said should have been dealt with by family and children services. But I said that I pause to consider other factors in these cases with very new babies (4 months old, in the OP) because there are a lot of cases of mothers doing harmful or negligent things because of conditions like postpartum depression or psychosis, and it's sad also that there is such a stigma attached to it that most women don't talk about it and often don't get help for it. Not getting help is often how those high-profile cases happen where a child is hurt or killed. That doesn't absolve the woman of what took place. It doesn't make it less horrible that a child was injured or killed. It may impact a legal case, but just generally, I wish more women shared their experiences so that there would be fewer cases of harm to the child, or harm to the mother.

    It wouldn't hurt for people to be more considerate about possible scenarios. How do we know the mother in this case wasn't self-medicating? If she had given birth to a child addicted of drugs, family and children services would have been all over that. So, is the drug use new? Is it a relapse? Is it related to something going on psychiatrically? If there's a psychiatric disorder, is it related to her new motherhood?
    All of your Blah Blah before an autopsy. You should give up your RN and become a Tarot card reader. Or socially conscious Liberal. LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    Maybe she had post-partum depression and is insane. In my opinion, most people who commit murder are insane.

    George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believed that even the worst criminals must not be subject to cruel punishment.
    That comment that inspires a rolling of the eyes.

  5. #34
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    Lummy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    Maybe she had post-partum depression and is insane. In my opinion, most people who commit murder are insane.
    That's interesting because blacks make up a disproportionately large number of murderers. So, they are insane?

    Or just au naturel?

    George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believed that even the worst criminals must not be subject to cruel punishment.
    Really? Links?

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    CCitizen's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lummy View Post
    That's interesting because blacks make up a disproportionately large number of murderers. So, they are insane?
    Maybe African Americans generally have a much more difficult lives then the White Majority in USA. Vietnam War veterans have higher murder rate. Poor people of any race have higher crime rate.

    According to George Washington "All Humans are Created Equal". Many Liberals blame all men for the crimes of some men. Sadly, some Conservatives blame all Muslims and Minorities for crimes of some.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lummy View Post
    George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believed that even the worst criminals must not be subject to cruel punishment.
    Really? Links?
    In the Eighteenth Century, torture and cruel punishment were routinely used in Europe. In France, most executions were by breaking on the wheel. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson passed the Bill of Rights -- abolition of Cruel Punishment.

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    DLLS's Avatar Senior Member
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    Does it have to meet both standards in the Constitution? I believe the wording is cruel and unusual. Which could lead one to believe that the form of punishment has to be both before it is illegal.

    Beheading while cruel is not unusual in the Middle-East nor is cutting off limbs of thieves. So why isn't it practiced here since apparently to be banned the punishment has to be both cruel and unusual.

    There are several forms of punishment that were quite common at one time yet are no longer permitted. The fact they were common means they were not unusual. They may have been cruel but the standard is not cruel or unusual but cruel and unusual. It is a two pronged test.

    Now I realize there are a lot of people that are going to take issue with what I wrote. Some may even delve into the legal history of the interpretation of that amendment.

    My contention remains that by the clear wording to be illegal the punishment has to be both cruel and unusual.

    Incidentally I do not believe any of you have to worry about my ever being nominated for the Supreme Court, even though non-attorneys can be.
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  8. #37
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    George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were great men with great character flaws. Their main fault was continuation of Slavery.

    Their achievement was founding USA as a Nation for all people and defining fundamental human rights for all people. Even the worst criminal like a pirate or a highway robber has a right to be free from cruel punishment like breaking on the wheel.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLLS View Post
    My contention remains that by the clear wording to be illegal the punishment has to be both cruel and unusual.
    In my opinion a punishment has to be either cruel or unusual to be unconstitutional.

    Before 1789, breaking on the wheel was cruel but usual in Europe.

    Since 1980s, Supermax Prisons are cruel but usual in USA.

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