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Thread: NASA’s survival training: What’s the point?

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    NASA’s survival training: What’s the point?

    NASA’s survival training: What’s the point?

    NASA, it seems, puts its Astronaut want-a-bees through some very serous survival training on earth. It really does not relate to what they will do in space. Or does it?

    It was May 17, 2009, and Astronaut Michael Massimino was lapping Earth at 18,000 miles an hour, sweating up his spacesuit as he struggled to fix the ailing Hubble Space Telescope. A stripped bolt was stopping him from removing a handrail to get at a crucial piece of hardware, and his nerves were fraying.

    Massimino fumbled at the bolt repeatedly through thick gloves, but without luck. It seemed that one dumb piece of metal might stymie NASA’s billion-dollar rescue mission — but that’s not how things turned out. He finally managed to pry open the telescope and complete his job before clambering back inside the Space Shuttle Atlantis. Hubble returned to action, going on to snap some of astronomy’s most iconic photos.



    Massimino was guided by experts on the ground, as astronauts always are. But his steely resolve in the face of long odds — and his methodical approach to solving a difficult problem while floating weightless in the vacuum of space — was honed by the brutal regimen of survival training he had endured more than a decade earlier.
    What helped Massimino not give up?

    Being thrown into dangerous, demanding outdoor ordeals has been a key part of NASA’s astronaut training program for as long as there has been a NASA, going all the way back to the original Mercury 7 team.

    In the early days, the agency plucked astronauts from a pool of test pilots who had already completed the military version of survival training. Former astronaut Jerry Linenger, a Navy pilot who in 1997 became the first American to spacewalk from Russia’s Mir space station, still vividly recalls what those trials were like.


    One time, Linenger and three other aviators were dropped in a jungle in the Philippines with no supplies or instructions, aided only by a local guide who spoke no English. “We were out there for two-and-a-half days, and had no idea where we were,” he says. “The scariest part was nighttime — a cacophony of sounds, animals crawling underneath me.”


    During the Apollo program of the late 1960s, NASA initiated rigorous outdoor exercises in Iceland, Hawaii and Arizona’s Meteor Crater. As the era of the International Space Station dawned in the late 1990s, NASA formalized its survival-training requirements, often partnering with the nonprofit National Outdoor Leadership School.
    This training is not for space- that will come later. This is for something else.

    He recalls the epiphany in his 2016 book, "Spaceman: An Astronaut's Unlikely Journey to Unlock the Secrets of the Universe." Alone on the ice one night, mulling over what he was doing in northern Canada, he suddenly became aware that the frustration that had been dogging him had lifted. He realized that as he met the daily challenges of the outing, he had gained insights into his psychological quirks and learned how to work more effectively with his companions.
    “These things teach you how to work as a team and get through hardships,” Massimino says in the book. “They teach you how to deal with adversity.” In space, as in extreme environments on Earth, self-awareness and adaptability can spell the difference between success and failure — and ultimately, between life and death.

    Astronauts need intimate knowledge of their own strengths and limitations, as well as those of their crewmates. They must be able to put aside bad moods, personal feuds and mental distractions of any kind. That’s where the true survival element of NASA’s training kicks in.


    And that is a lesson for all of us.


    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    NASA’s survival training: What’s the point?

    NASA, it seems, puts its Astronaut want-a-bees through some very serous survival training on earth. It really does not relate to what they will do in space. Or does it?



    What helped Massimino not give up?



    This training is not for space- that will come later. This is for something else.



    And that is a lesson for all of us.


    [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
    It certainly is. In the film Devils Advocate, Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves are negotiating a contract.
    Pacino says “Pressure changes everything. Some people, you squeeze ‘em, they focus. Others fold."

    That's true but that training is what makes those who focus know what to focus on. The training also helps weed out those who will fold. I think Mike Massimino is a special person and a truly good guy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    It certainly is. In the film Devils Advocate, Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves are negotiating a contract.
    Pacino says “Pressure changes everything. Some people, you squeeze ‘em, they focus. Others fold."

    That's true but that training is what makes those who focus know what to focus on. The training also helps weed out those who will fold. I think Mike Massimino is a special person and a truly good guy.
    I have been though some similar schools. I enjoyed them. Never complained. Saw the wood that is in front of you.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Not nearly as intense but all the "general quarters" and emergency fire fighting training we did in the USN really helped when there was an emergency.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    NASA’s survival training: What’s the point?

    NASA, it seems, puts its Astronaut want-a-bees through some very serous survival training on earth. It really does not relate to what they will do in space. Or does it?



    What helped Massimino not give up?



    This training is not for space- that will come later. This is for something else.



    And that is a lesson for all of us.


    [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

    Survival training is a dedicated part of the Astronaut's training curriculum. It's like college, you have to take some classes you don't need to get a degree you want. You want a math degree, but you have to take two liberal arts classes and a speech class to get it.

    Survival training for Astranauts was probably important in the 1960s and 70s when you splashed down In the ocean, now..its probably important but less important than it was four decades ago since a shuttle lands on a Florida runway after a mission.

    Survival training gives you a clue. It starts by giving you a frame of mind for survival. You need the proper frame of mind and the will to live FIRST to survive. Then it gives you the training you need.

    In the Military there is different flavors of survival training. Air crews and pilots I believe is three days - Survival Training for Special Ops troops is much longer. Air crews are taught camoflauge and survival, Special Ops troops are taught that, plus what to do if captured....and a host of other things.

    Also included is working alone and loneliness, how the mind plays tricks on you, and how the mind is the most important weapon in a survival situation. Concealment and camouflage, improvised shelters, signaling, and snares and dead traps.

    The NASA folks I would venture take it for the basic survival essentials - shelter, signaling, snares and traps. Proper mindset in a survival situation ; a long with the military line of thinking. A class about four or five days.



    Major Lambda
    Ab Extra & Sui Generis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Not nearly as intense but all the "general quarters" and emergency fire fighting training we did in the USN really helped when there was an emergency.

    Teamwork is essential for survival. Fifteen people can extinguish a fire faster, and with less damage sustained, than six people can. Fifteen people can extinguish a fire faster than six can. And the quicker the fire is extinguished the less the hazard to the crew and those fighting the fire.

    The longer the flames of the fire roar, the increased the chances are that one or more of the firefighters get hurt from the structure they are in, or suffer from a potentially fatal, or near fatal medical emergency.

    The more people you have, the less strenuous and time taking it is. Six people will be more stressed and tired in a task, than fifteen people will. Fifteen people will accomplish the mission In less time - and have less stress on their bodies, than six. But you still don't---- over or under resource a mission.


    Teamwork, Preplan and or rehearse, communicate and execute the mission,
    Debrief afterwards.



    Major Lambda



    Major Lambda
    Last edited by Major Lambda; 07-21-2018 at 03:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    NASA’s survival training: What’s the point?

    NASA, it seems, puts its Astronaut want-a-bees through some very serous survival training on earth. It really does not relate to what they will do in space. Or does it?



    What helped Massimino not give up?



    This training is not for space- that will come later. This is for something else.



    And that is a lesson for all of us.


    [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

    Point? For God's sake Peter it's government spending. No point needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Lambda View Post
    In the Military there is different flavors of survival training. Air crews and pilots I believe is three days
    Air Force air crew survival is 19 days.

    Survival Training for Special Ops troops is much longer. Air crews are taught camoflauge and survival, Special Ops troops are taught that, plus what to do if captured....and a host of other things.
    SERE is now a standard part of the SFQC. It has been like that for the last 10 years or so. Before that, the Level C (High Risk) Course was a completely separate entity. The Level C Course is the one that in the Air Force, CCTs and PJs (Combat Air Traffic Controllers and Downed flight crew rescue) would attend. In the Navy, it would be the Squeals. Army would be SF, some Rangers, and Aviators. There are 5 Level C facilities within the Department of Defense. The Air Force has one, the Navy has two and the Army has two (one for Special Operations personnel and another specifically for aviators).

    There are actually 3 levels of SERE. Level A is entry level, Code of Conduct stuff that everyone attends. Level B is for personnel who have a moderate chance of capture by the enemy. This is taught at unit level with a series of standardized DoD lesson plans. Level C is the course for people who have a high risk of enemy capture. The first phase of the Level C course is (or was last time I checked) 10 days of academics... everything from studying edible tubers to maggot therapy to just about any other survival skills you can think of. The next phase is a five day evasion exercise in which you are broken down into SERE teams and forced to evade capture by opposition forces. The opposition will use everything from dogs to thermal imagers to track you. It is also structured so it is impossible for you to win. The final phase is what we used to call the RTL (Resistance Training Laboratory). I am not sure if they still call it that or not. The content and duration of that phase are not appropriate for discussion here.

    Everyone loses weight. Everyone comes out of the course exhausted. Everyone comes out with the knowledge that with a little training and the right mindset, you can survive and push through just about anything.

    That is the point.
    Last edited by Cletus; 07-23-2018 at 08:05 PM.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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