The Decline of Traditional Conservatism and the Rise of the Postmodern Conservative

[Chris]

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!" That's not nutty?

He later talked about tossing A bombs into the Kremlin toilets. He voted against the Voting Rights Act and proudly said so. Yes, he was nutty. His voters preached the hate that liberals preach now.

Isn't liberty worth defending? AN earlier man said it better, give me liberty or give me death.


He favored equal right for all before the law, he opposed that part of the bill he thought would intrude upon a businessman's right to choose whom he serves. Today bakers are forced to bake cakes against their choosing.


I don't recall that hate.

[spunkloaf]

Isn't liberty worth defending? AN earlier man said it better, give me liberty or give me death.


He favored equal right for all before the law, he opposed that part of the bill he thought would intrude upon a businessman's right to choose whom he serves. Today bakers are forced to bake cakes against their choosing.


I don't recall that hate.

There's no reason why a baker should feel morally opposed to baking the same cake for one couple that he would bake for another, unless he intends to discriminate against them for being gay.

It would be no different than refusing to bake a cake for a couple because they are black, or white, or straight for that matter.

I am honestly torn on that issue, because I recognize the liberty to refuse service to somebody because they are gay, although it is a despicable and childish liberty, is a liberty nonetheless. Just as it was for the liberty for the Westboro Baptist Church to protest at the funerals of American soldiers. There is very little difference between the two scenarios. My question is if the freedom thing is the main issue, then why don't more people stand up and make that defense for the Westboro Baptist Church?

[El Guapo]

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!" That's not nutty?

He later talked about tossing A bombs into the Kremlin toilets. He voted against the Voting Rights Act and proudly said so. Yes, he was nutty. His voters preached the hate that liberals preach now.

Dewd. You can't pick one line out of an entire thought and call it nutty.

Context is everything, amigo.

Besides, what do you find nutty about that?

​The Russians were our mortal enemy at the time, y'know. srs biz. for realz.

[Mister D]

There's no reason why a baker should feel morally opposed to baking the same cake for one couple that he would bake for another, unless he intends to discriminate against them for being gay.

It would be no different than refusing to bake a cake for a couple because they are black, or white, or straight for that matter.

I am honestly torn on that issue, because I recognize the liberty to refuse service to somebody because they are gay, although it is a despicable and childish liberty, is a liberty nonetheless. Just as it was for the liberty for the Westboro Baptist Church to protest at the funerals of American soldiers. There is very little difference between the two scenarios. My question is if the freedom thing is the main issue, then why don't more people stand up and make that defense for the Westboro Baptist Church?

They do.

Did you know Rev. Phelps was once applauded for his civil rights work? He's not fond of homos but the brothuz are another story.

[Mister D]

Matt McManus, a Canadian conservative, writes The Decline of Traditional Conservatism and the Rise of the Postmodern Conservative about British conservative Roger Scruton:




He clarifies his intent behind postmodern as "an epoch in human history" when he says postmodern conservatism:




In discussing conservatism he includes this wonderful quote of Michael Oakshott:

Part of the problem here is that Oakshott comes from a different world. It's a little frustrating but I casn't blame your typical American for associating "traditional conservatism" with monied interests.

[spunkloaf]

They do.

Did you know Rev. Phelps was once applauded for his civil rights work? He's not fond of homos but the brothuz are another story.

I highly doubt it. People are mostly for "freedom and anarchy" when it best suits their personal agendas. We're all too different and selfish to worry about other people's freedoms.

[Ethereal]

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!" That's not nutty?

No. Not in the slightest. America was founded on the most extreme defense of liberty in history.

[Chris]

There's no reason why a baker should feel morally opposed to baking the same cake for one couple that he would bake for another, unless he intends to discriminate against them for being gay.

It would be no different than refusing to bake a cake for a couple because they are black, or white, or straight for that matter.

I am honestly torn on that issue, because I recognize the liberty to refuse service to somebody because they are gay, although it is a despicable and childish liberty, is a liberty nonetheless. Just as it was for the liberty for the Westboro Baptist Church to protest at the funerals of American soldiers. There is very little difference between the two scenarios. My question is if the freedom thing is the main issue, then why don't more people stand up and make that defense for the Westboro Baptist Church?

I don't disagree morally. But, in order to be moral, you must be free to make moral choices. This, imo, the baker must be free to choose. You and I and others can then choose to do business with him. Keep the government out of it.

[Chris]

Part of the problem here is that Oakshott comes from a different world. It's a little frustrating but I casn't blame your typical American for associating "traditional conservatism" with monied interests.

He like Scruton is British. I'd heard of him manny times before and never thought where he's from. So, yea, it's a little unfair to speak of a European conservatism in an American context. Conservatism here is tied to the market more than in Europe.

[spunkloaf]

I don't disagree morally. But, in order to be moral, you must be free to make moral choices. This, imo, the baker must be free to choose. You and I and thers can then choose to do business with him. Keep the government out of it.

Even the state government?