User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Stop and Frisk - How landmark Ohio case gave birth to 'stop-and-frisk' rules

  1. #1

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 473,417, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 61.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassYour first GroupVeteranRecommendation First ClassOverdrive
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    DGUtley's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    200779
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    52,941
    Points
    473,417
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    17,068
    Thanked 46,049x in 24,879 Posts
    Mentioned
    887 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lightbulb Stop and Frisk - How landmark Ohio case gave birth to 'stop-and-frisk' rules

    Stop and Frisk - How landmark Ohio case gave birth to 'stop-and-frisk' rules. It's known in legal parlance as a "Terry Stop". Why? Because of a landmark SCOTUS decision involving Mr. Terry.

    On the afternoon of Oct. 31, 1963, Cleveland Det. Martin McFadden, in plainclothes and on the lookout downtown for pickpockets, notices two black men across Huron Road — John W. Terry and Richard Chilton — taking turns stepping across the storefronts of a jewelry store and an airline ticket office. The men appear to be measuring distances with outstretched arms, each repeating the procedure three or four times. When they leave, McFadden follows the men around the corner to Euclid Avenue where they join Carl Katz, who is white. McFadden catches up to the trio in front of a men’s clothing store. What happened next changed policing in America forever.




    http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features...rry-vs-oh.aspx

    Attachment 24050

    Attachment 24051


    The SCOTUS decision is here: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/392/1/
    Last edited by DGUtley; 08-01-2018 at 07:53 AM.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to DGUtley For This Useful Post:

    Admiral Ackbar (08-01-2018)

  3. #2
    Points: 34,558, Level: 45
    Level completed: 41%, Points required for next Level: 892
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Tagger First ClassYour first Group25000 Experience PointsVeteranSocial
    Admiral Ackbar's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    5002
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6,897
    Points
    34,558
    Level
    45
    Thanks Given
    4,270
    Thanked 4,992x in 3,109 Posts
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What bothers me is the definition of probably cause is so loose. A smart Cop can make anything into probable cause. There needs to be limits.
    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"----Fletcher in The Outlaw Josey Wales

  4. #3

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 473,417, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 61.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassYour first GroupVeteranRecommendation First ClassOverdrive
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    DGUtley's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    200779
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    52,941
    Points
    473,417
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    17,068
    Thanked 46,049x in 24,879 Posts
    Mentioned
    887 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    SCOTUS held that stop and frisk only requires 'reasonable suspicion' not probable cause. Under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, a police officer may stop a suspect on the street and frisk him or her without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous."
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

  5. #4
    Points: 445,362, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Common's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    339112
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    66,765
    Points
    445,362
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    8,785
    Thanked 18,315x in 10,924 Posts
    Mentioned
    396 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stop and Frisk works
    LETS GO BRANDON
    F Joe Biden

  6. #5

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 74,318, Level: 66
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 1,132
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Cletus's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    195698
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    32,313
    Points
    74,318
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    3,682
    Thanked 27,383x in 15,850 Posts
    Mentioned
    412 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    SCOTUS held that stop and frisk only requires 'reasonable suspicion' not probable cause. Under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, a police officer may stop a suspect on the street and frisk him or her without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous."
    Bad law. It perverts the Fourth Amendment.

    The Justices who ruled in favor of it should have been stripped, tarred and feathered, and hanged.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

  7. #6

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 74,318, Level: 66
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 1,132
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Cletus's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    195698
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    32,313
    Points
    74,318
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    3,682
    Thanked 27,383x in 15,850 Posts
    Mentioned
    412 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    Stop and Frisk works
    At what cost to personal liberty?
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

  8. #7

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 152,038, Level: 93
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 2,012
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialTagger First ClassCreated Album picturesYour first GroupRecommendation First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Adelaide's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    341325
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    N. Pole and VA
    Posts
    30,757
    Points
    152,038
    Level
    93
    Thanks Given
    4,025
    Thanked 18,449x in 11,739 Posts
    Mentioned
    1723 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post
    What bothers me is the definition of probably cause is so loose. A smart Cop can make anything into probable cause. There needs to be limits.
    It is actually quite complicated, especially since a bad arrest could mean the case is dismissed later. No law enforcement officer wants their case to go to $#@! because they didn't follow procedure.

  9. #8

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 152,038, Level: 93
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 2,012
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialTagger First ClassCreated Album picturesYour first GroupRecommendation First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Adelaide's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    341325
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    N. Pole and VA
    Posts
    30,757
    Points
    152,038
    Level
    93
    Thanks Given
    4,025
    Thanked 18,449x in 11,739 Posts
    Mentioned
    1723 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    Bad law. It perverts the Fourth Amendment.

    The Justices who ruled in favor of it should have been stripped, tarred and feathered, and hanged.
    I am inclined to agree that it shouldn't be legal.

  10. #9

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 473,417, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 61.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassYour first GroupVeteranRecommendation First ClassOverdrive
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    DGUtley's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    200779
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    52,941
    Points
    473,417
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    17,068
    Thanked 46,049x in 24,879 Posts
    Mentioned
    887 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    Bad law. It perverts the Fourth Amendment. The Justices who ruled in favor of it should have been stripped, tarred and feathered, and hanged.
    MV are you masquerading as Mr. Cletus?
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

  11. #10

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 74,318, Level: 66
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 1,132
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Cletus's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    195698
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    32,313
    Points
    74,318
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    3,682
    Thanked 27,383x in 15,850 Posts
    Mentioned
    412 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    MV are you masquerading as Mr. Cletus?


    Sometimes, judges get it wrong. It is one thing for me or you to screw something up. We can generally just make it right and move on. When a judge makes a mistake, it can turn someone's life or a whole bunch of someones' lives upside down and result in permanent injury. Even so, a bad decision can be appealed and corrected, even if the damage caused by it cannot.

    However, the Supreme Court cannot afford to be wrong... EVER. What is even worse in this case is that I don't think they made a mistake. I think they made a decision to violate their oath of office and betray the public trust by giving law enforcement the power to trample on the Fourth Amendment for the sake of convenience. I have made my position on public officials who violate their oath of office and betray the public trust very clear for a long time. Any public official who does that should be made an example and pay the ultimate penalty. Hang them in public to send a message to any other public officials (elected or appointed) contemplating abusing the power of their offices. Make them understand that actions have consequences and some actions will never be forgiven.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts