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IMPress Polly
08-16-2018, 02:21 PM
I've been asked what feminist literature I prefer most more than once of late, so here are a few of my highest recommendations, organized by author:

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Sheila Jeffreys

Gender Hurts
The Spinster and Her Enemies
Beauty and Misogyny
Man's Dominion: The Rise of Religion and the Eclipse of Women's Rights

Janice Raymond

A Passion for Friends
Women as Wombs

Andrea Dworkin

Pornography: Men Possessing Women
Right Wing Women
Intercourse

Mary Daly

Pure Lust
Websters' First New Intergalactic Wickedry of the English Language

Germaine Greer

The Whole Woman

Also:

This Bridge Called My Back (multiple authors)
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Most of these books are now banned from your local university and bookstores. Too controversial to be permitted these days. The best literature usually is that way. Yeah, as you can also gather, most of the best feminist literature dates to the 1980s, IMO. That was kind of a heyday for it, in my view, kind of like how I view the early '90s as a heyday of feminist music.

If you (anyone) want me to briefly summarize any of these, I can.

Boris The Animal
08-16-2018, 02:59 PM
Yeah, if I want a good laugh.

MisterVeritis
08-16-2018, 03:08 PM
Why would any book be banned?

Do you mean universities don't compel students to buy them?

Chris
08-16-2018, 03:18 PM
I see no evidence of any books being banned except: "Andrea Dworkin opposed LEAF's position, arguing that feminists should not support or attempt to reform criminal obscenity law.[91] In 1993, copies of Dworkin's book Pornography were held for inspection by Canada Customs agents,[92] fostering an urban legend that Dworkin's own books had been banned from Canada under a law that she herself had promoted. However, the Butler decision did not adopt Dworkin and MacKinnon's ordinance, Dworkin did not support the decision, and her books (which were released shortly after they were inspected) were held temporarily as part of a standard procedural measure, unrelated to the Butler decision." @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Dworkin

They're available on amazon.com.

Standing Wolf
08-16-2018, 03:28 PM
Yeah, as you can also gather, most of the best feminist literature dates to the 1980s, IMO. That was kind of a heyday for it, in my view, kind of like how I view the early '90s as a heyday of feminist music.

I'm interested in your view of where Women stand today, in terms of rights, opportunities, access to the justice system, etc., compared with the '80s or even earlier.

I guess the question springs, as much as anything, from what you wrote about "the best feminist literature dat[ing] from the 1980s". Do you believe that this is rooted in the problems, or at least the depth and seriousness of them, being different thirty years on? If I read one of those books from the '80s, would some of the references and observations seem dated or inapplicable to the way things generally are today?

Mister D
08-16-2018, 03:31 PM
Why would any book be banned?

Do you mean universities don't compel students to buy them?
"Banned" in this case means they don't meet the demands of serious scholarship.

On second thought perhaps academic standards are oppressive and patriarchal.

pragmatic
08-16-2018, 03:44 PM
I've been asked what feminist literature I prefer most more than once of late, so here are a few of my highest recommendations, organized by author:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheila Jeffreys

Gender Hurts
The Spinster and Her Enemies
Beauty and Misogyny
Man's Dominion: The Rise of Religion and the Eclipse of Women's Rights

Janice Raymond

A Passion for Friends
Women as Wombs

Andrea Dworkin

Pornography: Men Possessing Women
Right Wing Women
Intercourse

Mary Daly

Pure Lust
Websters' First New Intergalactic Wickedry of the English Language

Germaine Greer

The Whole Woman

Also:

This Bridge Called My Back (multiple authors)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most of these books are now banned from your local university and bookstores. Too controversial to be permitted these days. The best literature usually is that way. Yeah, as you can also gather, most of the best feminist literature dates to the 1980s, IMO. That was kind of a heyday for it, in my view, kind of like how I view the early '90s as a heyday of feminist music.

If you (anyone) want me to briefly summarize any of these, I can.


Can you cite evidence those books have been banned from any particular University? Does sound like a bit of a stretch.

But on the topic of female authors: Am fond of Sue Grafton (rip) and the Agatha Christie classics. (My primary genre of choice being mystery/detective novels.)

Mister D
08-16-2018, 03:47 PM
Can you cite evidence those books have been banned from any particular University? Does sound like a bit of a stretch.

But on the topic of female authors: Am fond of Sue Grafton (rip) and the Agatha Christie classics. (My primary genre of choice being mystery/detective novels.)
Like the Hercule Poirot series.

Mini Me
08-16-2018, 04:52 PM
I can think of a lot of 'conservative' books that should be banned;

Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg, for one. Or anything by Dinesh D'Souza or Ann Coulter(Queen of Mean), Lush Rimjob, Ayn Rand really suck!
Here is a list of conservative authors. I liked Thomas Paine, and some of Patrick Bucannon

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3921.Best_Conservative_Books

Chris
08-16-2018, 04:59 PM
I can think of a lot of 'conservative' books that should be banned;

Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg, for one. Or anything by Dinesh D'Souza or Ann Coulter(Queen of Mean), Lush Rimjob, Ayn Rand really suck!
Here is a list of conservative authors. I liked Thomas Paine, and some of Patrick Bucannon

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3921.Best_Conservative_Books




Liberals want to do away with free speech and ban ideas they don't like.

IMPress Polly
08-16-2018, 05:16 PM
What I mean by "banned", of course, is that the collected works of many of these authors (like Sheila Jeffreys, Janice Raymond, Mary Daly) have been removed from many physical bookstores and university campuses at a private level because of protests against them.

IMPress Polly
08-16-2018, 05:37 PM
I'm interested in your view of where Women stand today, in terms of rights, opportunities, access to the justice system, etc., compared with the '80s or even earlier.

I guess the question springs, as much as anything, from what you wrote about "the best feminist literature dat[ing] from the 1980s". Do you believe that this is rooted in the problems, or at least the depth and seriousness of them, being different thirty years on? If I read one of those books from the '80s, would some of the references and observations seem dated or inapplicable to the way things generally are today?
Not really. This is all radical feminist literature and that branch of the movement has been mostly a generational phenomenon. It was never the dominant trend, but it had a heyday between 1967 and roughly the mid-'80s. It was specifically born out of the anti-Vietnam War movement, which is something the likes of which we haven't seen since in this country. The country was being driven very much by politics (the politics of life and death, mind you) in and around that time and the militancy of some of the feminists of that era was a byproduct of that. Subsequent generations of Americans have grown up in less politically-charged climates. The 1980s was a point at which that generation of radical women was broadly maturing into their 30s and 40s and becoming established, and churning out, broadly speaking, their best literature as a result of that station and their protracted experience in the movement. That's my opinion anyway.

These books include arguments against heterosexuality, against things like the concept of gender (gender roles, gender rules, the theory of the gendered brain, the transgender movement, etc.), the beauty industry, the sex industry, religion, marriage, and multi-culturalism, calls to significant degrees of female separatism, arguments for alternative spellings and word appropriation, etc. Like I said, these are some of the more radical views that there have been and represent the losing side of the ideological divide in the movement that had become very clear and sharp in the 1980s. Needless to say, I feel that these arguments transcend the timeframe in which they were written and still feel very fresh and unorthodox today. Many of these women are still with us, but they are no-platformed just about everywhere they may attempt to speak. The mainstream women's movement does not support them.

Sheila Jeffreys in particular is an author whom remains very relevant to radical feminist thinking today. Three out of the four books by her date to 2005 (Beauty and Misogyny), 2012 (Man's Dominion), and 2014 (Gender Hurts) respectively. The publication of Gender Hurts was, I would say, the main factor in shifting the focus of radical feminist thinking to its current one, for example. I feel that she is the most important author of radical women's literature alive today and my personal favorite.

Standing Wolf
08-16-2018, 05:42 PM
But on the topic of female authors: Am fond of Sue Grafton (rip) and the Agatha Christie classics. (My primary genre of choice being mystery/detective novels.)

If you enjoy a good Sherlock Holmes adventure, I highly recommend Bonnie MacBird's 'Art in the Blood' and 'Unquiet Spirits'. I've read hundreds of Holmes stories over the years and 'Art in the Blood' is near the very top of the charts. (In another life, that of a long-time screenwriter, Bonnie was the co-creator of 'Tron'.)

Standing Wolf
08-16-2018, 05:58 PM
Not really. This is all radical feminist literature and that branch of the movement has been mostly a generational phenomenon. It was never the dominant trend, but it had a heyday between 1967 and roughly the mid-'80s. It was specifically born out of the anti-Vietnam War movement, which is something the likes of which we haven't seen since in this country. The country was being driven very much by politics (the politics of life and death, mind you) in and around that time and the militancy of some of the feminists of that era was a byproduct of that. Subsequent generations of Americans have grown up in less politically-charged climates. The 1980s was a point at which that generation of radical women was broadly maturing into their 30s and 40s and becoming established, and churning out, broadly speaking, their best literature as a result of that station and their protracted experience in the movement. That's my opinion anyway.

I was an older teenager as the '60s became the '70s, so I well remember the radical divisions in society at that time. Even the emergence of Trumpism and the movement of both major political parties toward their respective fringes have not created the sort of social upheaval, suspicion and radicalism that was an everyday fact of life then. Not yet, anyway.


These books include arguments against heterosexuality, against things like the concept of gender (gender roles, gender rules, the theory of the gendered brain, the transgender movement, etc.), the beauty industry, the sex industry, religion, marriage, and multi-culturalism, calls to significant degrees of female separatism, arguments for alternative spellings and word appropriation, etc. Like I said, these are some of the more radical views that there have been and represent the losing side of the ideological divide in the movement that had become very clear and sharp in the 1980s. Needless to say, I feel that these arguments transcend the timeframe in which they were written and still feel very fresh and unorthodox today. Many of these women are still with us, but they are no-platformed just about everywhere they may attempt to speak. The mainstream women's movement does not support them.

To be honest, if those women are still campaigning against heterosexuality - of which some of us have grown rather fond - "the theory of the gendered brain" - established science, by the way - marriage and multiculturalism, I'm not shocked or surprised that they are not widely supported.

IMPress Polly
08-16-2018, 06:47 PM
To be honest, if those women are still campaigning against heterosexuality - of which some of us have grown rather fond - "the theory of the gendered brain" - established science, by the way - marriage and multiculturalism, I'm not shocked or surprised that they are not widely supported.

I'm not surprised by it either, and I would frankly be shocked if someone like yourself, or anyone here really, were to embrace more than one or two of their distinctive ideas. Accordingly, I considered the OP something verging on a troll thread. :tongue:

In all seriousness though, personally I'm not closed-minded to these sorts of ideas necessarily. *CONTROVERSY!*

Standing Wolf
08-16-2018, 07:26 PM
I'm not surprised by it either, and I would frankly be shocked if someone like yourself, or anyone here really, were to embrace more than one or two of their distinctive ideas. Accordingly, I considered the OP something verging on a troll thread. :tongue:

Agreed. :grin:


In all seriousness though, personally I'm not closed-minded to these sorts of ideas necessarily. *CONTROVERSY!*

I'm open to hearing about and discussing virtually any theory or idea. Simply dismissing something without rational analysis and thoughtful comment, usually with accompanying insults directed toward the author, is the antithesis of what a discussion board should be.

IMPress Polly
08-17-2018, 06:28 AM
Standing Wolf wrote:
I'm open to hearing about and discussing virtually any theory or idea. Simply dismissing something without rational analysis and thoughtful comment, usually with accompanying insults directed toward the author, is the antithesis of what a discussion board should be.

Exactly. I feel that we are at a place in this country right now where people broadly do not tolerate ideas that differ from their own; where the president leads his followers in boycotting news networks, stations, even athletic events that are anything other than mindless propaganda for his agenda. And the phenomenon is replicated among leftists. Critical thinking as a concept is at a premium right now, I feel. I feel that political bigotry is a real thing too that we are presently living with here in the Western world of today.

There was a time when women like Sheila Jeffreys and Mary Daly could not only speak on a university campus, but actually be esteemed professors in their fields! There was a time when women like these could get on television and make their case without the network being boycotted in protest just for having them. They weren't exactly popular, but they were allowed. I mean here it is: here is Sheila Jeffreys going on a TV talk show in 1990 to present her case against heterosexuality, taking on (including the host) no less than four detractors simultaneously, and holding up remarkably well under those circumstances:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNOF8z6O5i0

That era is clearly over. That would not be allowed to happen today. I kind of miss that aspect of the past.

Mister D
08-17-2018, 07:50 AM
Polly, can you give us some examples of these protests? For example, I briefly looked up Sheila Jeffrey's and the only "protests" (I'm being generous) I see are from the delusional transgender crowd and other feminists. When you speak of protests what exactly are you referring. Strife among progressive kooks?

Please be brief. Thank you.

Standing Wolf
08-17-2018, 08:01 AM
Exactly. I feel that we are at a place in this country right now where people broadly do not tolerate ideas that differ from their own; where the president leads his followers in boycotting news networks, stations, even athletic events that are anything other than mindless propaganda for his agenda. And the phenomenon is replicated among leftists. Critical thinking as a concept is at a premium right now, I feel. I feel that political bigotry is a real thing too that we are presently living with here in the Western world of today.

There was a time when women like Sheila Jeffreys and Mary Daly could not only speak on a university campus, but actually be esteemed professors in their fields! There was a time when women like these could get on television and make their case without the network being boycotted in protest just for having them. They weren't exactly popular, but they were allowed. I mean here it is: here is Sheila Jeffreys going on a TV talk show in 1990 to present her case against heterosexuality, taking on (including the host) no less than four detractors simultaneously, and holding up remarkably well under those circumstances:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNOF8z6O5i0

That era is clearly over. That would not be allowed to happen today. I kind of miss that aspect of the past.

Could I ask you to post a link to that video? For some reason I haven't been able to view videos on this board for a long time...I have no idea why.

Chris
08-17-2018, 08:48 AM
Could I ask you to post a link to that video? For some reason I haven't been able to view videos on this board for a long time...I have no idea why.

Just click reply with quote and there's your link.

Chris
08-17-2018, 08:52 AM
Exactly. I feel that we are at a place in this country right now where people broadly do not tolerate ideas that differ from their own; where the president leads his followers in boycotting news networks, stations, even athletic events that are anything other than mindless propaganda for his agenda. And the phenomenon is replicated among leftists. Critical thinking as a concept is at a premium right now, I feel. I feel that political bigotry is a real thing too that we are presently living with here in the Western world of today.

There was a time when women like Sheila Jeffreys and Mary Daly could not only speak on a university campus, but actually be esteemed professors in their fields! There was a time when women like these could get on television and make their case without the network being boycotted in protest just for having them. They weren't exactly popular, but they were allowed. I mean here it is: here is Sheila Jeffreys going on a TV talk show in 1990 to present her case against heterosexuality, taking on (including the host) no less than four detractors simultaneously, and holding up remarkably well under those circumstances:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNOF8z6O5i0

That era is clearly over. That would not be allowed to happen today. I kind of miss that aspect of the past.


What's remarkable today are two things. One, the feminist movement hasn't been resisted, banned, or anything of the sort. People have simply lost interest in it. I can see why. It wants to tear down what it sees as a male-dominated, partiarchal soceity, but it offers nothing to put up in its place, leaving people isolated and anxious. It's no different than any liberal movement since the Enlightenment. Two, what is resisted, banned and etc is not those leftist views, since they dominate the universities and public square, but reactions on the right against all that post-modern, neo-Marxist decadence and decay.

IMPress Polly
08-17-2018, 12:45 PM
Could I ask you to post a link to that video? For some reason I haven't been able to view videos on this board for a long time...I have no idea why.

The problem is that when I simply post a link to a YouTube video here on PF, it automatically turns into an ingrained video when I click the Post button. I'll have to modify the link slightly:

https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=bNOF8z6O5i0 <-- I have created a space between the term "youtube" and the ".com" part so that it won't post in video form. In order to go to the link, copy/paste the URL into your address bar and backspace the ".com" part once so that it reconnects to the "youtube" part, then press Enter.

Standing Wolf
08-17-2018, 01:18 PM
The problem is that when I simply post a link to a YouTube video here on PF, it automatically turns into an ingrained video when I click the Post button. I'll have to modify the link slightly:

https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=bNOF8z6O5i0 <-- I have created a space between the term "youtube" and the ".com" part so that it won't post in video form. In order to go to the link, copy/paste the URL into your address bar and backspace the ".com" part once so that it reconnects to the "youtube" part, then press Enter.

Okay, thanks.