The potential of solar power

[Chloe]

Here is an article from environment oregon that I thought was pretty cool. This is just unique for oregon obviously but you
could in theory translate this to most other states too I would imagine. Anyway here it is:
Environment Oregon research and policy

Oregon has vast untapped potential for solar energy. In the eastern twothirds of the state, Oregon’s solar resource rivals that of California’s sunny Central Valley. Even in the often cloudy Willamette Valley, the sun still shines for far more over the course of the year than it does in Germany, which has the world’s largest solar market.
Solar power can supply 10 percent of Oregon’s electricity by 2025. At the same time, solar thermal power can reduce Oregon’s energy use for water heating by 6 percent. This level of solar energy production could be achieved through a combination of rooftop solar photovoltaic panels, rooftop solar water heating systems, and utility-scale solar power stations.
Taking advantage of the state’s solar energy potential would reduce Oregon’s contribution to global warming and protect its environment. More solar power would also create jobs and boost manufacturing in Oregon. Putting policies in place to accelerate the growth of the solar energy market will allow Oregon to start reaping these benefits immediately.
Oregon sunlight is an enormous source of untapped energy potential.
• Utilizing all available rooftop space with suitable sun exposure, Oregon could technically install 10 gigawatts (GW) of rooftop solar photovoltaic (PV) power systems by 2025—which would generate about 20 percent of Oregon’s forecast electricity use in that year. Rooftop solar provides unique advantages for the electricity system because the power is generated close to where it will be used, minimizing the need to invest in power lines and other infrastructure and increasing the reliability of electricity service.
• Oregon could feasibly develop almost 30 percent of that rooftop solar potential in the next 13 years. Doing so would yield 3 GW of local solar photovoltaic capacity by 2025. This amount of solar power would generate the equivalent of nearly 6 percent of Oregon’s annual electricity needs in 2025, or 3.3 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh). That is enough electricity to power 250,000 typical Oregon homes—or all the homes in the city of Portland.
• New utility-scale solar power plants built on vacant land could generate another 3 billion kWh annually by 2025, bringing solar energy to 10
percent of Oregon’s electricity supply.
• Installing rooftop solar water heating systems at the same pace as rooftop solar PV would yield 290,000 residential-scale systems and 16,000 commercial-scale systems by 2025. Those systems could capture enough solar energy to reduce Oregon’s energy use for residential and commercial water heating by 6 percent, saving an additional 370 million kWh of electricity and 2 billion cubic feet of natural gas per year. That much energy could meet the full water heating needs of more than 150,000 Oregon households.
Solar energy prevents global warming pollution and protects Oregon’s environment.
• At this rate of growth, by 2025 solar energy in Oregon would annually prevent 3.8 million metric tons of carbon dioxide pollution, reducing the state’s contribution to global warming by nearly 8 percent in to eliminating the emissions from 730,000 passenger cars on the road today.
• Preventing global warming pollution is critical to ensure a stable environment. Unchecked, global warming threatens to increase average temperatures in Oregon by as much as 10° F by the 2080s. Temperature rise on this scale would reduce winter snowpack, threaten urban and rural water supplies, interfere with agriculture and salmon habitat, and create health threats—including increased air pollution, exposure to extreme heat and weather events, and introduction of new diseases. At the same time, global warming pollution is acidifying the ocean, threatening salmon and other ocean species.
Increasing the market for solar power in Oregon could make the state a leader in the regional solar power industry, create jobs and boost the state economy.
• Oregon’s solar industry today employs 3,300 workers at 545 firms— and its solar job market is growing faster than in all but five other states.
• Oregon has already attracted at least six major solar technology manufacturers, including SolarWorld in Hillsboro, a company that employs more than 1,000 people at America’s largest solar PV manufacturing facility.
• Expanding Oregon’s solar energy market would create thousands of additional jobs in system manufacturing, and particularly in installation and maintenance—jobs that cannot be outsourced.
Oregon should enact policies to accelerate solar energy development.
• Oregon should set a goal of generating 10 percent of its electricity from solar energy by 2025, and a parallel goal of installing 300,000 residential and commercial solar water heating systems by 2025. The state could achieve these goals through a combination of expanded incentive programs (such as the program run by the Energy Trust of Oregon), a scaled-up CLEAN program (a “feed-in tariff”), and/or by expanding the solar carve-out in its renewable electricity standard.
• Oregon should standardize net-metering rules statewide and raise the net-metering cap to a minimum of 5 percent of utility peak aggregate demand—eventually eliminating the cap altogether. Net-metering should allow every individual, business or community that installs a solar energy system to earn fair compensation for the electricity they produce.
• Oregon should create a net-zero energy building code, requiring all new homes to generate the equivalent of their entire energy use annually by 2020, and all new commercial
buildings by 2030.
• Oregon should reinvigorate state financing programs, such as the Residential Energy Tax Credits, and reinstate the Business Energy Tax Credit for a variety of renewable
energy technologies.

[Chloe]

Obviously that's just solar power alone but if you connect that with other possible renewable sources then you are really doing something good I think

[GrassrootsConservative]

They're just not efficient to use for long-term. Sure they help the planet, or whatever, but humans are not going to like them.


Over a long period of time, solar panels (http://solar.calfinder.com/library/solar-electricity/solar-panels/) do wear out in the sense that they become less efficient at converting solar energy into usable electricity. The panel structure itself (frame, glazing, etc.) should not wear out, barring manufacturer defects. The problem lies in degradation of the solar cells within.
That breaking down is a very slow process over many years. Most panels in use today will last 25-40 years, while still maintaining as much as 80 percent of their original output (http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/solar-information/solar-cell-conversion-efficiency-how-three-generations-stack-up/). A 20-year and 80-percent output warranty (http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/solar-information/solar-system-warranties-what-to-look-for-what-to-expect/) is an industry standard. Many have 25-year warranties and most people agree that panels will produce power almost indefinitely. It is far more likely that wiring or an inverter will wear out before the solar panels do.



http://solar.calfinder.com/ask/do-solar-panels-3

Humans HATE the hassle of replacing things that are obsolete and do not work anymore. Solar panels are just not a viable option for renewable energy, and they should be left in the dust just like corn-price-raping biofuels.

[Chloe]

ok so you are poo pooing on solar, so then what is a good renewable energy source for you? Keep in mind that fossil fuels are not renewable and WILL run out.

[GrassrootsConservative]

ok so you are poo pooing on solar, so then what is a good renewable energy source for you? Keep in mind that fossil fuels are not renewable and WILL run out.

Leave it up to the individual. Let the people decide what works best for them and quit trying to control their actions. Plenty of people ARE choosing solar power but please let them have a CHOICE.

[Chloe]

Leave it up to the individual. Let the people decide what works best for them and quit trying to control their actions. Plenty of people ARE choosing solar power but please let them have a CHOICE.

and when the choice runs out?

[GrassrootsConservative]

and when the choice runs out?

Then clearly they will have to make a change. But let them realize that. It will be much better for everyone.

[Chloe]

By the way out of curiosity you joined here about two months before I did but yet your karma and rep power is so much higher than mine. Is there a trick to that or something or is it just because people just don't agree with me at all on most things? :smiley:

[GrassrootsConservative]

By the way out of curiosity you joined here about two months before I did but yet your karma and rep power is so much higher than mine. Is there a trick to that or something or is it just because people just don't agree with me at all on most things? :smiley:

This forum is mostly Conservative OR Libertarian. You made a lot of talks about bans and other very extreme Liberal ideology that doesn't fly with most people. A lot of it is unconstitutional (such as the ban on guns that you were once advocating).

[RollingWave]

Effectiveness is going up, and will continue to, but viability is always relative to the alternatives.

It is viable now, just not economically so on it's own in most cases, of course exceptions exist, very remote places are actually more suitable because getting power lines there is super expensive as is maintaining it. while driving diesel up the mountains of through the desert every week is also obviously a bad idea.

It's problem is really that while it is not too bad for micro generation (having a solar panel for 10-20 years is almost surely better then burning a diesel engine for that long to power your house. and generally less hazardous too, forget about pollution, think fire.) on a Utility scale it's still not as viable as the traditional methods. since transporting fuel for utility scale is not nearly as much of a cost as it would be for a individual house to keep buying diesel. But solar in a utility scale doesn't scale up in the same extend as combustible engines.

However the cost of a totally independent off grid system is at least twice as high as normal, that is also a problem. because you need batteries, which will either have a short lifespan and/or require a lot of care, or will be quality but very expensive . If we see a bigger breakthrough in battery system we'll see a major change in power production and that day is likely to happen within our lifetime.

[donttread]

Obviously that's just solar power alone but if you connect that with other possible renewable sources then you are really doing something good I think

I think that solar power could be most effective at the individual home/building level. I've got a glassed in porch that can easily be 30 degrees warmer than the outdoors on a sunny day. Wind /?I think would be most effective at the community level.
But there are huge problems with the development of resources in this sencable way. Namely no $200.00 a month umbilical cord for the megacorps and governments to exploit.

[The Xl]

Any renewable sources of energy will be struck dead by big energy special interests

[Peter1469]

Solar will go big when battery technology steps up. Particularly the type that will work on the grid.

[donttread]

Solar will go big when battery technology steps up. Particularly the type that will work on the grid.


The grid, is what we should be trying to reduce. Solar and wind offer that oppourtunity. Tremendous amounts of energy are used/ wasted, lost transporting that energy hundreds and thousands of miles.

[Peter1469]

The grid, is what we should be trying to reduce. Solar and wind offer that oppourtunity. Tremendous amounts of energy are used/ wasted, lost transporting that energy hundreds and thousands of miles.

Neg. We need to create the next generation grid. Eliminate the waste.

[donttread]

Neg. We need to create the next generation grid. Eliminate the waste.

Disagree. It takes energy to transport energy. Local systems eliminate this waste

[Peter1469]

Disagree. It takes energy to transport energy. Local systems eliminate this waste

Local systems are fine. We are not eliminating the grid. We need to modernize it.

[Bob]

Solar will go big when battery technology steps up. Particularly the type that will work on the grid.

What do you mean by "steps up"? Battery technology has long been very well known. Back in 1955 when I had high school physics, along with the school electronics course, I knew the problems. You can extend life, but not volts. Check out all batteries. They are composed of cells. One cell has approximately 1.5 volts. To power even a small electric motor, such as your refrigerator, your appliance is geared for about 110-120 volts. Count up how many cells are needed to get that voltage.

I have personally seen batteries needed to support a basic solar cell system and I tend to doubt most people want some building full of batteries. Then the cost of them plus the life of batteries.

Solar lasts during daylight. The weather plays a role on amount of charge the panels can give you.

I was on a forum with some guy in Minnesota that has a rental yard. He used to brag about his solar. Turns out he dived in at a high cost and did not save as much as he planned. Some cities have laws on this to the point you can't get rid of your utility.

The best book I have read on energy topics is the "Physics for future presidents" out of Berkley,. Ca at the University. This book is used at UC California so it's pretty worth the reading. I believe laymen won't have trouble understanding the contents. (you should check your local library unless you plan to own it)

Too few people understand the world of electricity. Even the grid is not well understood. We just plug in the toaster and expect toast.

http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Future-Presidents-Science-Headlines/dp/0393337111

[Peter1469]

Yes Bob, batteries already exist. Step-up. Get better. Hold a charge longer. Etc.

Questions?


What do you mean by "steps up"? Battery technology has long been very well known. Back in 1955 when I had high school physics, along with the school electronics course, I knew the problems. You can extend life, but not volts. Check out all batteries. They are composed of cells. One cell has approximately 1.5 volts. To power even a small electric motor, such as your refrigerator, your appliance is geared for about 110-120 volts. Count up how many cells are needed to get that voltage.

I have personally seen batteries needed to support a basic solar cell system and I tend to doubt most people want some building full of batteries. Then the cost of them plus the life of batteries.

Solar lasts during daylight. The weather plays a role on amount of charge the panels can give you.

I was on a forum with some guy in Minnesota that has a rental yard. He used to brag about his solar. Turns out he dived in at a high cost and did not save as much as he planned. Some cities have laws on this to the point you can't get rid of your utility.

The best book I have read on energy topics is the "Physics for future presidents" out of Berkley,. Ca at the University. This book is used at UC California so it's pretty worth the reading. I believe laymen won't have trouble understanding the contents. (you should check your local library unless you plan to own it)

Too few people understand the world of electricity. Even the grid is not well understood. We just plug in the toaster and expect toast.

http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Future-Presidents-Science-Headlines/dp/0393337111

[Bob]

Yes Bob, batteries already exist. Step-up. Get better. Hold a charge longer. Etc.

Questions?

Batteries used with solar are not like flashlight batteries. they are heavy duty batteries such as truck batteries. Since they recharge, how do you propose to make them hold charges longer?

[Peter1469]

Batteries used with solar are not like flashlight batteries. they are heavy duty batteries such as truck batteries. Since they recharge, how do you propose to make them hold charges longer?

I don't. The scientists and engineers do. Link (http://io9.com/a-single-breakthrough-that-could-cut-costs-on-solar-ene-1647903109). Link (http://oilandenergyinvestor.com/2014/10/stunning-breakthrough-might-solar-powers-holy-grail/).

[Polecat]

By definition coal and oil are solar energy long term storage of the natural variety such as wood. The chemical reaction involved is combustion that releases the energy. This is an area that would benefit by further research. The reason being that energy stored in fast growing bio mass would have a positive impact on the environment by converting CO2 into oxygen while it was growing. If a more efficient non polluting method of extraction could be developed as opposed to just burning the pay off would be twofold. Gas turbines come to mind. They are presently used to turn farm waste into mechanical energy but are expensive and only cost effective in large scale operations.

The only energy that dose not come from our sun is nuclear and it came from the death of another star so is solar too in a way. The wind is driven by the energy of the sun as is the rainfall that drives hydro power.

[Bob]

I don't. The scientists and engineers do. Link (http://io9.com/a-single-breakthrough-that-could-cut-costs-on-solar-ene-1647903109). Link (http://oilandenergyinvestor.com/2014/10/stunning-breakthrough-might-solar-powers-holy-grail/).

This confirms my report to the forum.


When solar panels generate abundant electricity in the bright sunlight, how can homeowners store that energy for night time and dark days?
Conventional batteries, even the most high-tech ones, are inefficient, expensive, and don’t last more than a few years.


While I am super pleased that the university is putting the new technology out to the public, I can't recall them speaking of cost. And what about the numbers who currently have solar and batteries?

Do they scrap what cost them $20,000 and up and pay even more or what?

I recall this guy in Minneapolis that bragged about him putting solar on his home and his business as if he saved money. He had to later report the bad side of the deal only way too late to take back what he installed.

[Polecat]

The grid, is what we should be trying to reduce. Solar and wind offer that oppourtunity. Tremendous amounts of energy are used/ wasted, lost transporting that energy hundreds and thousands of miles.

I agree with this approach too. As you mention the loss in transmission is substantial. There is also the unnecessary exposure to catastrophic failure risks. There is no bullet proof way to adequately protect the grid from its own weak points.

[donttread]

I agree with this approach too. As you mention the loss in transmission is substantial. There is also the unnecessary exposure to catastrophic failure risks. There is no bullet proof way to adequately protect the grid from its own weak points.

I find your comments especially wise today Polecat. You are on a roll.

[CreepyOldDude]

We've been thinking about adding solar panels. In our area, the excess power generated would be sold to the local power company. When we use more than the panels generate, we'll draw the difference from the grid.

We still haven't decided yet, though. My Viking Queen is not sure of the upfront costs.

[Reason10]

Then why give Solyndra BILLIONS of dollars, if this is such a good idea?

Why isn't solar competitive in the power market?

Notice, that most of your article is a bunch of "shoulds." That should tell you something. Opinions are cheap, but heating a city requires megawatts. And TODAY, that technology doesn't exist in the real of using sunlight.

Maybe in 50 years. Not today.

[Reason10]

Why aren't you liberals suggesting this to IRAN, who is claiming with a straight face that it wants to develop nuclear power?

[maineman]

I have eight panels on my roof... they supply roughly half my electricity needs. In Mexico, the ONLY utility that is anything other than dirt cheap is electricity and the public utility (CFE) that supplies it has a frightening draconian rate structure where, once you go over a preset "hurdle" in monthly use, your overall rate nearly quadruples. My panels keep me well below that hurdle and will pay for themselves in under three years. I have room for probably eight more up there and am seriously considering increasing the size of my installation.

[maineman]

Why aren't you liberals suggesting this to IRAN, who is claiming with a straight face that it wants to develop nuclear power?

I am all for nuclear power. I think the states should get back into the business of building and operating nuke plants. SFR designs are literally failsafe.

[Peter1469]

China was dumping solar panels on the US market (and other places) to put companies like Solyndra out of business.

Dumping is a legal word as used here.
Then why give Solyndra BILLIONS of dollars, if this is such a good idea?

Why isn't solar competitive in the power market?

Notice, that most of your article is a bunch of "shoulds." That should tell you something. Opinions are cheap, but heating a city requires megawatts. And TODAY, that technology doesn't exist in the real of using sunlight.

Maybe in 50 years. Not today.

[donttread]

You mean they can make panels, ship them here and under sell us? Humm, now why would that be?

[Redrose]

Chloe

We had solar panels on our roof in Florida. They heated the pool and our hot water. We had a water heater too, when solar wasn't enough. It made a significant difference in our bills. Our HOA was against it, saying it was unsightly, it was on the rear side of our roof, not visable from the street. We appealed and won. I believe there are solar shingles that contain cells to store energy. I'm all for that. Areas that don't have the sun like Florida would not see the benefit as much, but anything would be beneficial.

[Bob]

@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

We had solar panels on our roof in Florida. They heated the pool and our hot water. We had a water heater too, when solar wasn't enough. It made a significant difference in our bills. Our HOA was against it, saying it was unsightly, it was on the rear side of our roof, not visable from the street. We appealed and won. I believe there are solar shingles that contain cells to store energy. I'm all for that. Areas that don't have the sun like Florida would not see the benefit as much, but anything would be beneficial.

Those solar panels heat water only. I had them too on a home I owned in Pleasanton, CA. I bought the home with the solar and it helped, but the system needed repairs so I took them apart and repaired them. The cost to fix was low.

Here, check the house out. When i owned it, it was a tan color. I believe I installed the front door and door hardware when I lived there.

In the back yard is a large covered patio and the swimming pool. The rest of the back yard is just not big at all. It is the one story home. The windows in the center facing the street are the Dining room. to the right is the living room. Family room behind the garage.

See that huge palm tree???? You can't miss it. I spent maybe two weeks cutting off the branches. I cut it from maybe 5 feet up to over 20 feet up. The number of branches shocked me. It was real work. I had to put them in a trailer and haul them maybe 5 miles to the dumps and pay a fee for that. I hate that tree. Look how it has really messed up the front yard. When i lived there, the yard was still level.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.676683,-121.90737,3a,75y,293.3h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1se8z_hq-mGnCXiHtg_wtUGg!2e0

[Bob]

Take this home I bought in 1972 that my former wife still owns. Poor woman has Alzheimers. The depth of the front driveway is almost overwhelming. Parking is no problem. The picture is a bit too dark but the color is what i painted it though since it has been repainted by her spouse.

This home has more size than the Pleasanton home. The rear yard has a huge wooden patio and a large swimming pool. And there is still yard left. I came home one time from work and the neighbor to the left had boldly cut off the limbs of my redwood trees. He hated limbs over his side of the fence. But he ruined half a dozen trees.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/46544+Bradley+Ct,+Fremont,+CA+94539/@37.49332,-121.92227,3a,75y,101.08h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOxadmp00HRcbT_tOk8yN0Q!2e0!4m2 !3m1!1s0x808fc667d48b361d:0x7fdec2c5710df741!6m1!1 e1

[donttread]

@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

We had solar panels on our roof in Florida. They heated the pool and our hot water. We had a water heater too, when solar wasn't enough. It made a significant difference in our bills. Our HOA was against it, saying it was unsightly, it was on the rear side of our roof, not visable from the street. We appealed and won. I believe there are solar shingles that contain cells to store energy. I'm all for that. Areas that don't have the sun like Florida would not see the benefit as much, but anything would be beneficial.

You needed your pool heated in Florida? Your a tougher northern gal now though, right?

[Redrose]

You needed your pool heated in Florida? Your a tougher northern gal now though, right?


I'm a wuss, I like the water warm. The pool cage had dark screen, and dark bronze frame, it blocked much of the sun and we were on a golf course and the huge oaks blocked a lot of the sun too. Without the heating, the water was always cold, too cold for me to enjoy it. We sold the house in '07, it was a lovely home. We got a great price, but since the bubble burst it has lost half it's value. My mom's home was valued at $153k in '06, sold in 2014 for $57k. So sad.
Bob see the twin palms? They were 6 feet tall when we planted them in '93. We paid a service to trim them. Too much for us to do properly. Your old home is lovely. Very pretty area.

10939

[Bob]

I'm a wuss, I like the water warm. The pool cage had dark screen, and dark bronze frame, it blocked much of the sun and we were on a golf course and the huge oaks blocked a lot of the sun too. Without the heating, the water was always cold, too cold for me to enjoy it. We sold the house in '07, it was a lovely home. We got a great price, but since the bubble burst it has lost half it's value. My mom's home was valued at $153k in '06, sold in 2014 for $57k. So sad.
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) see the twin palms? They were 6 feet tall when we planted them in '93. We paid a service to trim them. Too much for us to do properly. Your old home is lovely. Very pretty area.

10939

So is yours. I paid $150,000 in 1987 and did repairs. I sold it in 1990 for $95,000 more. Your palms were perhaps easier to maintain. Not sure. I had a palm in the back yard that was super easy to maintain.

Funny how the birds liked the dates off the back tree. I would wake up to birds on the roof of the patio eating dates. Birds make a lot of noise when pecking at dates on a fibreglass roof. Over time, it got to be annoying. Dates fell on the flat roof is what took place.

[Redrose]

So is yours. I paid $150,000 in 1987 and did repairs. I sold it in 1990 for $95,000 more. Your palms were perhaps easier to maintain. Not sure. I had a palm in the back yard that was super easy to maintain.

Funny how the birds liked the dates off the back tree. I would wake up to birds on the roof of the patio eating dates. Birds make a lot of noise when pecking at dates on a fibreglass roof. Over time, it got to be annoying. Dates fell on the flat roof is what took place.


The two in the front were Queens I believe, we had Robalini in front of the dining room window and a couple behind the pool cage. They are great palms, they stay small. Mature, full grown are about 7 feet tall. Very slow growers. They have a thin trunk that curves. Very attractive in landscaping. They are a bit pricey though to buy, but have minimal maintenance. Need to be covered in the frost, yes Florida gets frost.

[Newpublius]

China was dumping solar panels on the US market (and other places) to put companies like Solyndra out of business.

Dumping is a legal word as used here.

This should actually force the price of solar panels below the market price of course. Still.....no wholesale adoption. Don't get me wrong, I'm routing for solar, but the day its an economic no brainer is the day they become ubiquitous on rooves and at the moment they just aren't because they don't typically make economic sense.

[donttread]

I'm a wuss, I like the water warm. The pool cage had dark screen, and dark bronze frame, it blocked much of the sun and we were on a golf course and the huge oaks blocked a lot of the sun too. Without the heating, the water was always cold, too cold for me to enjoy it. We sold the house in '07, it was a lovely home. We got a great price, but since the bubble burst it has lost half it's value. My mom's home was valued at $153k in '06, sold in 2014 for $57k. So sad.
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) see the twin palms? They were 6 feet tall when we planted them in '93. We paid a service to trim them. Too much for us to do properly. Your old home is lovely. Very pretty area.

10939

Nice pic. Reminds me a little of the home my parents had in Hernando

[Redrose]

Nice pic. Reminds me a little of the home my parents had in Hernando
donttread

Hernando, Florida or Hernando County, Florida?

[Bob]

The two in the front were Queens I believe, we had Robalini in front of the dining room window and a couple behind the pool cage. They are great palms, they stay small. Mature, full grown are about 7 feet tall. Very slow growers. They have a thin trunk that curves. Very attractive in landscaping. They are a bit pricey though to buy, but have minimal maintenance. Need to be covered in the frost, yes Florida gets frost.

I would have loved for those trees to have replaced the giant I had. I am trying to recall the problems cutting the branches off. I seem to recall spines. Even using a chainsaw, it took a lot of time.

The date palm in back was a slender tree. I made the home look better than new. I sold it to a couple from the San Francisco area. A couple years later, it was up for sale as a vacant house. I drove to it with my Real estate lock box opener and saw what they did to ruin it. I was mortified. People forget how much prices fell on homes when Clinton was president. I remember such things very well. They had to sell it for not much more than I first paid.

[Redrose]

I would have loved for those trees to have replaced the giant I had. I am trying to recall the problems cutting the branches off. I seem to recall spines. Even using a chainsaw, it took a lot of time.

The date palm in back was a slender tree. I made the home look better than new. I sold it to a couple from the San Francisco area. A couple years later, it was up for sale as a vacant house. I drove to it with my Real estate lock box opener and saw what they did to ruin it. I was mortified. People forget how much prices fell on homes when Clinton was president. I remember such things very well. They had to sell it for not much more than I first paid.


Robellini Palms.

10946

10947

[Bob]

Robellini Palms.

10946

10947

Those are very nice. We have the weather for them too.

[donttread]

@donttread (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=922)

Hernando, Florida or Hernando County, Florida?

Well the town was named Hernanado, I'm not sure what county it was in. It's near Inverness and Crystal River