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jgreer
11-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Pick a topic, any topic and I will discuss it with you. School is in NOW.

jgreer
11-07-2011, 06:35 PM
Looks like everyone is afraid LOL

Captain Obvious
11-07-2011, 08:41 PM
Abortion

Conley
11-07-2011, 08:54 PM
Abortion


:rofl:

Let's debate...was starting this thread a bad idea, or the worst idea ever?

Jgreer most threads on here are debates of some sort, jump in just be prepared to use facts to argue your side.

Mister D
11-07-2011, 08:55 PM
The gauntlet has been thrown down at greer's feet! >:D :o

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Yevgeny_Onegin_by_Repin.jpg

Mister D
11-07-2011, 08:56 PM
Wow that was big...but you get the point. ;D

I think greer had no classes today and started drinking a little early. ;)

Conley
11-07-2011, 09:04 PM
:D :D :D

This thread is 100% more awesome now than when it began. Discuss!

Mister D
11-07-2011, 09:16 PM
Now greer disappears... ::)

Conley
11-07-2011, 09:24 PM
Passed out.








;D

Mister D
11-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Passed out.








;D


:D Must have. I'd like to see this abortion debate now. I think greer may have bitten off more than he can chew.

Conley
11-07-2011, 09:33 PM
Ooooh, did Captain mean to debate abortion?

I thought he meant this thread was an abortion...a veritable spontaneous miscarriage. That's why I laughed, I thought he was pointing out what a flop it was.

Hmm, we might need to get Cap'n in here to verify. On second read though I think you're right. I liked my version better. Real abortion isn't very funny. :-\

Mister D
11-07-2011, 09:53 PM
Ooooh, did Captain mean to debate abortion?

I thought he meant this thread was an abortion...a veritable spontaneous miscarriage. That's why I laughed, I thought he was pointing out what a flop it was.

Hmm, we might need to get Cap'n in here to verify. On second read though I think you're right. I liked my version better. Real abortion isn't very funny. :-\


Hmmm...now I'm confused. I thought he gave greer a topic. I'm sure we'll get the usual woman's right to choose mantra from greer.

Conley
11-07-2011, 10:01 PM
Ooooh, did Captain mean to debate abortion?

I thought he meant this thread was an abortion...a veritable spontaneous miscarriage. That's why I laughed, I thought he was pointing out what a flop it was.

Hmm, we might need to get Cap'n in here to verify. On second read though I think you're right. I liked my version better. Real abortion isn't very funny. :-\


Hmmm...now I'm confused. I thought he gave greer a topic. I'm sure we'll get the usual woman's right to choose mantra from greer.


No, I'm sure you're right. Still I think greer wanted someone to take a side and not ask him to argue both to himself :D

Mister D
11-07-2011, 10:04 PM
Ooooh, did Captain mean to debate abortion?

I thought he meant this thread was an abortion...a veritable spontaneous miscarriage. That's why I laughed, I thought he was pointing out what a flop it was.

Hmm, we might need to get Cap'n in here to verify. On second read though I think you're right. I liked my version better. Real abortion isn't very funny. :-\


Hmmm...now I'm confused. I thought he gave greer a topic. I'm sure we'll get the usual woman's right to choose mantra from greer.


No, I'm sure you're right. Still I think greer wanted someone to take a side and not ask him to argue both to himself :D


CO and I locked horns once over this issue. He;s pretty passionate about it so greer is in for a hard time. ;D

Conley
11-07-2011, 10:10 PM
Interesting, I would think you two would be on the same side and that greer would be on the opposite. I doubt he'll stray far from the liberal position. Assuming he sobers up and sees this :D

Mister D
11-07-2011, 10:13 PM
Interesting, I would think you two would be on the same side and that greer would be on the opposite. I doubt he'll stray far from the liberal position. Assuming he sobers up and sees this :D


I think I expressed some reservations regarding all the poor people and over population in Third World countries. I tend toward the pro-life position myself.

wingrider
11-08-2011, 12:45 AM
I think greer is a master magician


he started athread and then made himself disappear.. way to go greer you are almost as good as Houdini

Mister D
11-08-2011, 12:01 PM
I think greer is a master magician


he started athread and then made himself disappear.. way to go greer you are almost as good as Houdini


:D :o

jgreer
11-08-2011, 12:07 PM
::)

Unlike you guys I have a life. Still no one willing to step it up.

Mister D
11-08-2011, 12:10 PM
::)

Unlike you guys I have a life. Still no one willing to step it up.


Someone already has. Drinking early again, greer?

jgreer
11-08-2011, 12:11 PM
::)

Unlike you guys I have a life. Still no one willing to step it up.


Someone already has. Drinking early again, greer?


No.

Abortion? What about it?

Mister D
11-08-2011, 12:17 PM
::)

Unlike you guys I have a life. Still no one willing to step it up.


Someone already has. Drinking early again, greer?


No.

Abortion? What about it?


Cap't picked the topic. That's all you asked for.

jgreer
11-08-2011, 12:20 PM
I can't debate myself. I need someone to make a point. If Captain had said "Should third trimester abortion be legal" then I could debate. There's none here to debate and no one took a side. I will go to other posts then.

Mister D
11-08-2011, 12:25 PM
I can't debate myself. I need someone to make a point. If Captain had said "Should third trimester abortion be legal" then I could debate. There's none here to debate and no one took a side. I will go to other posts then.


Let Cap't know your side. Start talking or do you only do that when you're drunk? ;)

Captain Obvious
11-08-2011, 06:08 PM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.

MMC
11-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.


Funny Dodgeball Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzcXTiVd5gE#ws)

Careful JG.....Cap likes to get a little viscious with the ball. ;)

jgreer
11-09-2011, 09:58 AM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.


You are already off to a bad start. A ball of sixteen, thirty two cells is not a child under any definition of law or science.

Do you consider male masturbation murder since that's millions of unborn children?

Captain Obvious
11-09-2011, 05:49 PM
When did I question the scientific definition of life?

Fact is, there wouldn't be a big question if abortion weren't at the basis of the discussion but that's another matter.

My question to you is from a morality standpoint. Simply subscribing to the legal definition of life doesn't absolve you from the moral standpoint.

When sperm meets egg, what happens virtually all of the time? I'll give you a hint, a baby is produced. That is where I morally draw the definition line. At no time does a human life not occur when sperm meets egg.

Unless you're masturbating over a petri dish full of human eggs, I'll go out on a limb and say you're morally OK from an ending human life standpoint. That's common sense, it shouldn't have to be explained to an intelligent adult.

So let me ask the unanswered question again - how can you morally defend the murder of an unborn child?

wingrider
11-09-2011, 06:33 PM
When did I question the scientific definition of life?

Fact is, there wouldn't be a big question if abortion weren't at the basis of the discussion but that's another matter.

My question to you is from a morality standpoint. Simply subscribing to the legal definition of life doesn't absolve you from the moral standpoint.

When sperm meets egg, what happens virtually all of the time? I'll give you a hint, a baby is produced. That is where I morally draw the definition line. At no time does a human life not occur when sperm meets egg.

Unless you're masturbating over a petri dish full of human eggs, I'll go out on a limb and say you're morally OK from an ending human life standpoint. That's common sense, it shouldn't have to be explained to an intelligent adult.

So let me ask the unanswered question again - how can you morally defend the murder of an unborn child?


there is no defense for the murder of an unborn child, all there is , is rationalization of the act, and by them claiming that because it isn't breathing on its own it doesn't have the right to life.. 50 million abortions in the US alone man that is a lot of murders.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 02:22 AM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.


America justifies the murder of people every day, whether it be a fetus, a convicted felon, a soldier, or an enemy on a battle field. Who are you to judge what lives and what dies? If it came from your loins, fine. Then and ONLY then do you have a say in the matter. But from somebody who wants the government to have less regulation in our lives, this argument seems a bit ridiculous. You can have your beliefs. But when your beliefs clash with another citizen's freedoms, your beliefs are trumped. Just sayin...

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 02:26 AM
I can't debate myself. I need someone to make a point. If Captain had said "Should third trimester abortion be legal" then I could debate. There's none here to debate and no one took a side. I will go to other posts then.


Let Cap't know your side. Start talking or do you only do that when you're drunk? ;)


They're both doing fine without your aide, sensei. ;)

Mister D
11-10-2011, 08:46 AM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.


America justifies the murder of people every day, whether it be a fetus, a convicted felon, a soldier, or an enemy on a battle field. Who are you to judge what lives and what dies? If it came from your loins, fine. Then and ONLY then do you have a say in the matter. But from somebody who wants the government to have less regulation in our lives, this argument seems a bit ridiculous. You can have your beliefs. But when your beliefs clash with another citizen's freedoms, your beliefs are trumped. Just sayin...


Nonsense. Soldiers are not murdered by any standard. Nor are felons.

jgreer
11-10-2011, 11:05 AM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.

MMC
11-10-2011, 11:58 AM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


mur·der [ múrdər ] 1.crime of killing somebody: the crime of killing another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
2.something difficult or unpleasant: something that is very difficult or unpleasant and involves great effort or hardship
3.kill somebody illegally: to kill another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
Synonyms: homicide, manslaughter, assassination, killing, slaying, unlawful death, contract killing, slaughter, massacre, wasting.

No, killing is the taking of another life.....Murder is a Crime. ;)

Mister D
11-10-2011, 12:12 PM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


Murder is the unjustified taking of life. Murder, as MMC notes, is criminal. Back to the drawing board, greer. ;)

jgreer
11-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


Murder is the unjustified taking of life. Murder, as MMC notes, is criminal. Back to the drawing board, greer. ;)



Ever hear of war crimes? Just because someone is at war doesn't mean he's not a murderer. Plus when was the last time we declared war on any one? Lawful taking of life? Whose laws? It isnt as simple or as clean as you want it to be.





Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


mur·der [ múrdər ] 1.crime of killing somebody: the crime of killing another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
2.something difficult or unpleasant: something that is very difficult or unpleasant and involves great effort or hardship
3.kill somebody illegally: to kill another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
Synonyms: homicide, manslaughter, assassination, killing, slaying, unlawful death, contract killing, slaughter, massacre, wasting.

No, killing is the taking of another life.....Murder is a Crime. ;)


Killing somebody is murder.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 12:21 PM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


Murder is the unjustified taking of life. Murder, as MMC notes, is criminal. Back to the drawing board, greer. ;)



Ever hear of war crimes? Just because someone is at war doesn't mean he's not a murderer. Plus when was the last time we declared war on any one? Lawful taking of life? Whose laws? It isnt as simple or as clean as you want it to be.





Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


mur·der [ múrdər ] 1.crime of killing somebody: the crime of killing another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
2.something difficult or unpleasant: something that is very difficult or unpleasant and involves great effort or hardship
3.kill somebody illegally: to kill another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
Synonyms: homicide, manslaughter, assassination, killing, slaying, unlawful death, contract killing, slaughter, massacre, wasting.

No, killing is the taking of another life.....Murder is a Crime. ;)


Killing somebody is murder.


Yes, we've all heard of war crimes, greer. Do you really think all the killings in war are "war crimes". ::) :D

No, the act of killing someone in and of itself is not murder by definition. Back to the drawing board, son.

MMC
11-10-2011, 12:33 PM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


Murder is the unjustified taking of life. Murder, as MMC notes, is criminal. Back to the drawing board, greer. ;)



Ever hear of war crimes? Just because someone is at war doesn't mean he's not a murderer. Plus when was the last time we declared war on any one? Lawful taking of life? Whose laws? It isnt as simple or as clean as you want it to be.





Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


mur·der [ múrdər ] 1.crime of killing somebody: the crime of killing another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
2.something difficult or unpleasant: something that is very difficult or unpleasant and involves great effort or hardship
3.kill somebody illegally: to kill another person deliberately and not in self-defense or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law
Synonyms: homicide, manslaughter, assassination, killing, slaying, unlawful death, contract killing, slaughter, massacre, wasting.

No, killing is the taking of another life.....Murder is a Crime. ;)


Killing somebody is murder.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_Bible

You shall not murder or You shall not kill, KJV Thou shalt not kill (LXX οὐ φονεύσεις, translating Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח lo ti-rəṣoḥ), is a moral imperative included as one of the Ten Commandments in the Torah,[1] specifically Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17.

The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt. The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but also allows for justified killing in the context of warfare, capital punishment and self-defense.

The act of slaying itself, regardless of questions of bloodguilt, is expressed with the verb n-k-h "to strike, smite, hit, beat, slay, kill". This verb is used of both an Egyptian slaying an Israelite slave and of Moses slaying the Egyptian in retaliation in Exodus 2:11-12

The concept of bloodguilt pervades the Bible and entails punishment for the shedding of innocent blood.

The Torah portrays murder as a capital crime and describes a number of details in the moral understanding and legal implementation of consequences.[18]

In contrast, if the killing was accidental, the accused person was permitted to flee to a city of refuge where he would be safe from the avenger of blood. Carrying out the death penalty required the testimony of multiple witnesses; putting someone to death on the testimony of a single witness was strictly prohibited.[19]

The Torah had the expectation that capital crimes would be investigated thoroughly, and moral guilt was attached to failure to investigate crimes thoroughly or failure to give testimony when a call was made for witnesses.[20] The understanding of bloodguilt also required a procedure to make atonement for unsolved murder. If a dead body was found lying in a field, the elders and judges were to carefully determine the distance to the closest town, and the elders of the nearest town were to break a heifer’s neck in a prescribed manner and location.

The Torah and Hebrew Bible made clear distinctions between the shedding of innocent blood and killing as the due consequence of a crime.

Justified killing: in warfare
Justified killing: intruder in the home.....snip~

jgreer
11-10-2011, 01:09 PM
The Bible says a lot of things. That's not the only law in town.

So I guess if your government says to kill Iraqis then its not murder.

Anything can be justified. Say someone stole from me, am I justified in killing him?

OK, now what if he stole my child? My child's virginity? See what I mean? We all have different morals we live by. Killing and murder are the same thing, its just a matter of what we call it.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 01:17 PM
The Bible says a lot of things. That's not the only law in town.

So I guess if your government says to kill Iraqis then its not murder.

Anything can be justified. Say someone stole from me, am I justified in killing him?

OK, now what if he stole my child? My child's virginity? See what I mean? We all have different morals we live by. Killing and murder are the same thing, its just a matter of what we call it.


No, we call the unjustified taking of human life murder. You can argue that what we consider unjusitified may vary but murder is not simply killing by definition. Sorry, bro, Back to the drawing board. ;)

MMC
11-10-2011, 01:23 PM
Bible, Quran, Upanishads, I-Ching, lets go back to who was the first to write then. The Sumerians.....same deal punishment for murder not for killing. All difined by laws. All definied by man. Justifed or unjustified. ;)

Mister D
11-10-2011, 01:25 PM
Bible, Quran, Upanishads, I-Ching, lets go back to who was the first to write then. The Sumerians.....same deal punishment for murder not for killing. All difined by laws. All definied by man. Justifed or unjustified. ;)


Right. Justification may vary but the meaning of murder does not.

Conley
11-10-2011, 01:29 PM
Looks pretty conclusive to me.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 01:34 PM
Looks pretty conclusive to me.


Greer's dislike for the military leads him to make these odd assertions.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Murder is the taking of another life.

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human being.

So yes that all qualifies.


Murder is the unjustified taking of life. Murder, as MMC notes, is criminal. Back to the drawing board, greer. ;)


Then I guess murder does not apply to abortion for 2 reasons.

1. It's not the taking of a life to begin with
2. It's not unjustified

Solved. Next topic please.

jgreer
11-10-2011, 05:05 PM
LOL Nice one Spunk!

You said it before I could. Abortion is justified so it is not murder. How do you like your rules now?

Mister D
11-10-2011, 05:40 PM
LOL Nice one Spunk!

You said it before I could. Abortion is justified so it is not murder. How do you like your rules now?


The rules of grammar are not mine but thanks. :D

Pssst...you're debating it's justification! :roflmao:

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 05:49 PM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.


America justifies the murder of people every day, whether it be a fetus, a convicted felon, a soldier, or an enemy on a battle field. Who are you to judge what lives and what dies? If it came from your loins, fine. Then and ONLY then do you have a say in the matter. But from somebody who wants the government to have less regulation in our lives, this argument seems a bit ridiculous. You can have your beliefs. But when your beliefs clash with another citizen's freedoms, your beliefs are trumped. Just sayin...


There is so much wrong with this statement, I'm not sure where to begin. It might have already been debunked by the more intellectual members of this forum, but I'll give it a go anyway.

First, capital punishment and military casualties are not murder. Second, nobody (including me) is asking what "America" justifies, but what greer justifies.

Third, it doesn't matter who's life comes from who's loins, nobody IMHO has the right to murder them.

The rest of your statement is gobblidygoop, not worthy of debunking.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 05:52 PM
Again, greer is confusing a moral approach with a legal and/or religious approach. I do not oppose abortion because of legal or religious reasons, I just find it hard to defend the brutal slaughtering of an unborn child - that child that we are genetically designed to care for and develop, not butcher.

So greer, how do you justify the slaughter of an unborn child? Because others do? That seems the only logical answer so far since you don't seem capable of addressing the question within the context that it is stated.

jgreer
11-10-2011, 05:54 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 05:59 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.


Yes, there is one definition of murder. Murder is the unjustified taking of human life. :D

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 06:01 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.


So you justify the butchering of unborn children because other people do - as I predicted?

Thank you, I'm sure you sleep well at night.

jgreer
11-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.


Yes, there is one definition of murder. Murder is the unjustified taking of human life. :D


And abortion is justified!

jgreer
11-10-2011, 06:03 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.


So you justify the butchering of unborn children because other people do - as I predicted?

Thank you, I'm sure you sleep well at night.


No children are getting butchers. I am talking about CELLS. Like the sperm that you don't care about.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 06:07 PM
Every living organism is comprised of cells. Cells are considered to be a form of life.

So when sperm meets egg, what happens? Simple quiz, what is produced?

a) a shoe
b) a rock
c) life (human or otherwise)
d) a Marilyn Manson CD

I'll give you a hint because I know you're not the sharpest light bulb, the answer is "c".

Prove that the answer is not "c" in virtually all of the cases where sperm meets egg and I'll say you have an argument.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 06:09 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.


Yes, there is one definition of murder. Murder is the unjustified taking of human life. :D


And abortion is justified!


Sigh...

You have been asked to defend that position.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 06:10 PM
Something is either justified or it is not. But what is justifiable is different to every person. So there is not just one definition of murder. Get it?

Two cells are not a child. Neither is four, eight, or sixteen. So stop using the wrong words. Its a ball of cells.


Yes, there is one definition of murder. Murder is the unjustified taking of human life. :D


And abortion is justified!


Sigh...

You have been asked to defend that position.


He can't, which is why he's focusing on weaving a web.

Conley
11-10-2011, 06:14 PM
Interesting stuff. I just Googled this out of interest because I had no idea about the numbers.

Ready or not, once sperm and egg get together they have their own agenda: to create a viable embryo. Their chances aren't great. It's estimated that more than 50 percent of all fertilized eggs fail to develop. If it's going to survive, the egg has a lot of work to do.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2816miracle.html

Although the statistics on the failure rate of human fertilization are not entirely robust, given the biological and ethical delicacy of conducting research in this area, the numbers consistently suggest that, at minimum, two-thirds of all human eggs fertilized during normal conception either fail to implant at the end of the first week or later spontaneously abort. Some experts suggest that the numbers are even more dramatic.

http://discovermagazine.com/2004/may/cover/article_view?b_start:int=2&-C

Obviously though for an abortion to happen things would have had to have moved well beyond this stage.

Conley
11-10-2011, 06:15 PM
It makes you appreciate what it took for you to get here. They don't call it the miracle of life for nothing ;)

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 08:21 PM
Here - let me serve it up on a platter.

Why should abortion be legal? Unimester, bimester, trimester - whatever. How can you defend the viscous murdering of an unborn child?

Ball's in your court.


America justifies the murder of people every day, whether it be a fetus, a convicted felon, a soldier, or an enemy on a battle field. Who are you to judge what lives and what dies? If it came from your loins, fine. Then and ONLY then do you have a say in the matter. But from somebody who wants the government to have less regulation in our lives, this argument seems a bit ridiculous. You can have your beliefs. But when your beliefs clash with another citizen's freedoms, your beliefs are trumped. Just sayin...


There is so much wrong with this statement, I'm not sure where to begin. It might have already been debunked by the more intellectual members of this forum, but I'll give it a go anyway.

First, capital punishment and military casualties are not murder.

Neither is abortion.




Second, nobody (including me) is asking what "America" justifies, but what greer justifies.



Well, I'm asking. And I'm answering.




Third, it doesn't matter who's life comes from who's loins, nobody IMHO has the right to murder them.



Nobody's murdering anybody. Otherwise people would say "I'm going to murder my unborn child" instead of saying "I'm going to have an abortion."


YOU are the one who is misinterpreting things here, it would appear.




The rest of your statement is gobblidygoop, not worthy of debunking.



Diddo. ;)


You don't like that people choose to abort fetuses because you consider them to be living beings. Fine. But where do you draw the line between regulating that and invading another person's health decisions? Mothers give life. If they choose not to give it for whatever reason, who are you to tell them they cannot?


Pro-lifers just don't make any sense.

People call liberals "emotional" and "knee-jerk thinkers" but the subject of abortion is a fine example of right-wingers at their most vulnerable and irrational.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 08:25 PM
First, I have to congratulate you spunk, at least you offered some semblance of a pre-considered reply, unlike greer's blather.

However you are stretching the issue in the direction greer wants it stretched. The question isn't the legality of abortion, I was responding to greer's hysteria when he suggested military casualties and capital punishment were forms of murder, which they are not.

That's not the basis of my question. Let me repeat for the liberally inept - the legality of the issue, more specifically the legal definition of human life isn't the basis of my question.

My question is (elaborated), considering that a fetus will develop into a human being, how can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of a human life?

I'm sure this will continue to be liberally clusterfucked to death, but that's my question.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 08:38 PM
Actually, opposition to abortion is not necessarily "right wing" or religious.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 08:44 PM
Exactly.

I don't consider myself "rightwing". I lean considerably right but I have some fundamental liberal mindset.

Hell, I'm a musician.

O0

I'm the least religious also. I believe in God but I don't support the human institutions that claim to represent God's will.

Nor is my stance on abortion religiously motivated. It's human motivated to the sense that, how can we call ourselves human or humanistic when we allow this abominable act to occur at the rate that it does?

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 08:46 PM
First, I have to congratulate you spunk, at least you offered some semblance of a pre-considered reply, unlike greer's blather.

However you are stretching the issue in the direction greer wants it stretched. The question isn't the legality of abortion, I was responding to greer's hysteria when he suggested military casualties and capital punishment were forms of murder, which they are not.

That's not the basis of my question. Let me repeat for the liberally inept - the legality of the issue, more specifically the legal definition of human life isn't the basis of my question.

My question is (elaborated), considering that a fetus will develop into a human being, how can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of a human life?

I'm sure this will continue to be liberally clusterfucked to death, but that's my question.


Simple, by harvesting testimonies from people who are living.

For example.

If my mother did not want me, I would hope that she would have aborted me. Why would I want to be born into a life I wasn't wanted in?

We can assume....since people are so adamant that fetuses are capable of "feeling"...that they might feel the same way.

You know what? I just gave you a bunch of bullshit just now. The fact is nobody can decipher what a fetus wants, thinks, feels, or what. However, we CAN decipher the wants and needs of a living woman.

I think you are asking a question which doesn't make sense, because it implies that a fetus is a living being. But it is still dependent on the mother, just as an arm, a head, a leg, or a hand would.






You talk about considering that a fetus would develop into a human being, therefore it should be considered special. but why stop at a fetus? Why not the sperm or the egg? We've had this discussion. What about a romantic dinner which leads to conception? What about condoms? There are a multitude of events which lead to the creation/prevention of a human life.


"How can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of human life?" You can't even define the basis of human life. At this time the question is unanswerable, any speculation is based upon personal opinion ONLY, and it has no place in defining laws regulating what people can or cannot do with their own bodies. The debate becomes moot, and the justification defaults to favoring whom we KNOW is living and has a consciousness. That would mean the whim of the knocked-up.





If at some time we discover that fetuses are conscious of their surroundings and attest to being aborted, I certainly would agree that we should consider their position as well.

Until then.....ABORT! Repeat, ABORT! >:D

Mister D
11-10-2011, 08:48 PM
First, I have to congratulate you spunk, at least you offered some semblance of a pre-considered reply, unlike greer's blather.

However you are stretching the issue in the direction greer wants it stretched. The question isn't the legality of abortion, I was responding to greer's hysteria when he suggested military casualties and capital punishment were forms of murder, which they are not.

That's not the basis of my question. Let me repeat for the liberally inept - the legality of the issue, more specifically the legal definition of human life isn't the basis of my question.

My question is (elaborated), considering that a fetus will develop into a human being, how can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of a human life?

I'm sure this will continue to be liberally clusterfucked to death, but that's my question.


Simple, by harvesting testimonies from people who are living.

For example.

If my mother did not want me, I would hope that she would have aborted me. Why would I want to be born into a life I wasn't wanted in?

We can assume....since people are so adamant that fetuses are capable of "feeling"...that they might feel the same way.

You know what? I just gave you a bunch of bullshit just now. The fact is nobody can decipher what a fetus wants, thinks, feels, or what. However, we CAN decipher the wants and needs of a living woman.

I think you are asking a question which doesn't make sense, because it implies that a fetus is a living being. But it is still dependent on the mother, just as an arm, a head, a leg, or a hand would.






You talk about considering that a fetus would develop into a human being, therefore it should be considered special. but why stop at a fetus? Why not the sperm or the egg? We've had this discussion. What about a romantic dinner which leads to conception? What about condoms? There are a multitude of events which lead to the creation/prevention of a human life.


"How can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of human life?" You can't even define the basis of human life. At this time the question is unanswerable, any speculation is based upon personal opinion ONLY, and it has no place in defining laws regulating what people can or cannot do with their own bodies. The debate becomes moot, and the justification defaults to favoring whom we KNOW is living and has a consciousness. That would mean the whim of the knocked-up.





If at some time we discover that fetuses are conscious of their surroundings and attest to being aborted, I certainly would agree that we should consider their position as well.

Until then.....ABORT! Repeat, ABORT! >:D


Infants and young children are also dependent on their mothers. So are the mentally handicapped.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 08:52 PM
Actually, opposition to abortion is not necessarily "right wing" or religious.


It's largely right wing. And extremely religious.

Let me liken it to something you might relate to.


Not all black people are liberals. But....


;)

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 08:52 PM
Sort of D - but I wouldn't put it that way. Mentally dependent maybe.

The difference between you and I, spunk, is our desire to live. I was an unwanted baby - pill baby I think (my sister was a broken rubber baby). Or vice versa, but either way, my parents had us - because they were decent people.

You get one shot at life. One, that's it. Stack the odds against me, I want that shot and I bet that most aborted humans would have wanted that shot also.

The sad aspect of this story is, regardless of what those aborted humans would have wanted is meaningless. Life was taken away from them regardless of what they would have wanted.

The rights of convenience in our society are greater than the right to life.

Mister D
11-10-2011, 08:59 PM
Actually, opposition to abortion is not necessarily "right wing" or religious.


It's largely right wing. And extremely religious.

Let me liken it to something you might relate to.


Not all black people are liberals. But....


;)


Very few black people are liberals. Liberalism is for comfortable middle class white people. Black people just vote consistently Democrats and in their own racial interests.

Anyway, that's nonsense. There are plenty of people who oppose abortion who are neither. Sadly, it's portrayed to you that way and hence you have a partisan reaction to a very basic moral question.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 09:05 PM
Sort of D - but I wouldn't put it that way. Mentally dependent maybe.

The difference between you and I, spunk, is our desire to live. I was an unwanted baby - pill baby I think (my sister was a broken rubber baby). Or vice versa, but either way, my parents had us - because they were decent people.

You get one shot at life. One, that's it. Stack the odds against me, I want that shot and I bet that most aborted humans would have wanted that shot also.

The sad aspect of this story is, regardless of what those aborted humans would have wanted is meaningless. Life was taken away from them regardless of what they would have wanted.

The rights of convenience in our society are greater than the right to life.


Look, I feel ya man.

I used to feel the same way about abortion. And I can't imagine what it may be like finding out my mom did not want me. But when it comes down to brass knuckles, it's just way too complicated to regulate abortion. Perhaps it is a matter of convenience, but what isn't? I gotta say, having my car stolen was inconvenient. I bet the families of fallen soldiers feel the loss of their loved ones as pretty damned inconvenient. I know you're referring to a select few women who are simply careless with their sexual choices and their health choices. But you're forgetting something. That's them, and this is you. I don't think many people respect women who are like that. And nobody thinks abortion is a pretty subject, just like nobody likes the thought of war.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 09:10 PM
Actually, opposition to abortion is not necessarily "right wing" or religious.


It's largely right wing. And extremely religious.

Let me liken it to something you might relate to.


Not all black people are liberals. But....


;)


Very few black people are liberals. Liberalism is for comfortable middle class white people. Black people just vote consistently Democrats and in their own racial interests.

Anyway, that's nonsense. There are plenty of people who oppose abortion who are neither. Sadly, it's portrayed to you that way and hence you have a partisan reaction to a very basic moral question.


You and I have very different views of the world, it's funny how we both make it work for us in our real lives. It's like 2+2=5, and also 2+2=4.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 09:14 PM
First, I have to congratulate you spunk, at least you offered some semblance of a pre-considered reply, unlike greer's blather.

However you are stretching the issue in the direction greer wants it stretched. The question isn't the legality of abortion, I was responding to greer's hysteria when he suggested military casualties and capital punishment were forms of murder, which they are not.

That's not the basis of my question. Let me repeat for the liberally inept - the legality of the issue, more specifically the legal definition of human life isn't the basis of my question.

My question is (elaborated), considering that a fetus will develop into a human being, how can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of a human life?

I'm sure this will continue to be liberally clusterfucked to death, but that's my question.


Simple, by harvesting testimonies from people who are living.

For example.

If my mother did not want me, I would hope that she would have aborted me. Why would I want to be born into a life I wasn't wanted in?

We can assume....since people are so adamant that fetuses are capable of "feeling"...that they might feel the same way.

You know what? I just gave you a bunch of bullshit just now. The fact is nobody can decipher what a fetus wants, thinks, feels, or what. However, we CAN decipher the wants and needs of a living woman.

I think you are asking a question which doesn't make sense, because it implies that a fetus is a living being. But it is still dependent on the mother, just as an arm, a head, a leg, or a hand would.






You talk about considering that a fetus would develop into a human being, therefore it should be considered special. but why stop at a fetus? Why not the sperm or the egg? We've had this discussion. What about a romantic dinner which leads to conception? What about condoms? There are a multitude of events which lead to the creation/prevention of a human life.


"How can you justify the brutal destruction of the basis of human life?" You can't even define the basis of human life. At this time the question is unanswerable, any speculation is based upon personal opinion ONLY, and it has no place in defining laws regulating what people can or cannot do with their own bodies. The debate becomes moot, and the justification defaults to favoring whom we KNOW is living and has a consciousness. That would mean the whim of the knocked-up.





If at some time we discover that fetuses are conscious of their surroundings and attest to being aborted, I certainly would agree that we should consider their position as well.

Until then.....ABORT! Repeat, ABORT! >:D


Infants and young children are also dependent on their mothers. So are the mentally handicapped.


But they're not part of the body, or inside somebody's body. They can breathe on their own, they digest their own food, they can express themselves. They are not fetuses.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 09:15 PM
Honestly spunk, deep down inside it really doesn't matter to me that my parents didn't want kids when they rolled in the sack at the time I was conceived.

What matters most is that they decided to give me that shot at life.

I have an 8yr old, he's pissing me off right now by repeatedly attacking his bean bag on the bed I'm sitting on. He wasn't planned and yet we, as morally and ethically, responsibly conscious humans decided to have him. Actually, it wasn't a decision. Abortion was never a thought.

I don't care if we were eating out of dumpsters to support him, we made the only decision that we as humans could have made.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 09:20 PM
Honestly spunk, deep down inside it really doesn't matter to me that my parents didn't want kids when they rolled in the sack at the time I was conceived.

What matters most is that they decided to give me that shot at life.

I have an 8yr old, he's pissing me off right now by repeatedly attacking his bean bag on the bed I'm sitting on. He wasn't planned and yet we, as morally and ethically, responsibly conscious humans decided to have him. Actually, it wasn't a decision. Abortion was never a thought.

I don't care if we were eating out of dumpsters to support him, we made the only decision that we as humans could have made.


That's beautiful. In a non-gay way.

But really. Live and let die. You can't force others to see it your way. And even if you could, would it mean anything?

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 09:27 PM
You don't support capital punishment, correct?

So you're ok with convicted felons being put to death?

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 09:32 PM
You don't support capital punishment, correct?

So you're ok with convicted felons being put to death?


My stance has changed on that. I don't support it, but I don't oppose it. Kinda like abortion.

Captain Obvious
11-10-2011, 09:39 PM
You don't support capital punishment, correct?

So you're ok with convicted felons being put to death?


My stance has changed on that. I don't support it, but I don't oppose it. Kinda like abortion.


Same here, sort of.

My stance on capital punishment has softened a bit. It's the liberal in me.


Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. --- JRR Tolkien

See that - I just e-69's you. I was getting jealous of D anyway.

O0

Mister D
11-10-2011, 09:41 PM
Actually, opposition to abortion is not necessarily "right wing" or religious.


It's largely right wing. And extremely religious.

Let me liken it to something you might relate to.


Not all black people are liberals. But....


;)


Very few black people are liberals. Liberalism is for comfortable middle class white people. Black people just vote consistently Democrats and in their own racial interests.

Anyway, that's nonsense. There are plenty of people who oppose abortion who are neither. Sadly, it's portrayed to you that way and hence you have a partisan reaction to a very basic moral question.


You and I have very different views of the world, it's funny how we both make it work for us in our real lives. It's like 2+2=5, and also 2+2=4.


True. Vive la différence! This place would be boring without it.

Conley
11-10-2011, 09:52 PM
You don't support capital punishment, correct?

So you're ok with convicted felons being put to death?


My stance has changed on that. I don't support it, but I don't oppose it. Kinda like abortion.


Same here, sort of.

My stance on capital punishment has softened a bit. It's the liberal in me.


Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. --- JRR Tolkien

See that - I just e-69's you. I was getting jealous of D anyway.

O0


It's getting :bananabutt: up in here. ;D

I don't want to derail, just had to indulge my twelve year old sense of humor. I'm enjoying the reading. Peace bitches.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 10:17 PM
You don't support capital punishment, correct?

So you're ok with convicted felons being put to death?


My stance has changed on that. I don't support it, but I don't oppose it. Kinda like abortion.


Same here, sort of.

My stance on capital punishment has softened a bit. It's the liberal in me.


Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. --- JRR Tolkien

See that - I just e-69's you. I was getting jealous of D anyway.

O0


It's getting :bananabutt: up in here. ;D

I don't want to derail, just had to indulge my twelve year old sense of humor. I'm enjoying the reading. Peace bitches.


I would totally fuck a banana right now.

Conley
11-10-2011, 10:26 PM
:D I think whatever that is in your avatar is probably a big fan of bananas. Eating them, not fucking them I mean.

spunkloaf
11-10-2011, 11:12 PM
It's a sloth.



http://sloths.org/3-toedsloth.jpg

http://fennychandra.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/smiling-sloth.jpg

http://static.tumblr.com/avmpw3e/Xocl71v0m/sloth.gif

http://www.flickr.com/photos/drewdomkus/5079018303/

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/Spunkloaf/SlothCrop.jpg

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID15166/images/goonies_sloth.jpg

Conley
11-11-2011, 09:03 AM
Well, Ma said always be positive so I'll say I'm glad I saw those photos this morning and last night right before bed.

:o :o :D

Still not sure why he needs sunglasses? :-\

jgreer
11-11-2011, 11:42 AM
Looks like Spunk Loaf is doing great :)

I'll say this to Captain Obvious:

Things worked out for you. We are all happy for you. That wouldnt work for everyone. You and your wife already had kids, another was no big deal. What about a 16 year old unemployed girl? Think she has as much money as you? As nice a house? Some people would love a kid but cant because they are in trouble and know that would be no life for a kid. You dont know that kid would want to be here. Suicides too.

Its the same arguement over and over from the old generations. It was easy for them so they expect it is easy for us. Look at how different it is now, the economy sucks, minimim wage is basically the same as it was a generation ago and all the jobs are over seas. So no its not a good comparison for old people to say I did it why can't everyone else.

The biggest problem with this debate is a small group of people wanting to tell everyone else what they can and cant do. Conservatives say they want small government but then they start saying the government should decide who lives and who dies. WRONG!

Mister D
11-11-2011, 11:47 AM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.

jgreer
11-11-2011, 01:38 PM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.


Ummm no, partying has nothing to do with it. It is a lot harder to go through nine months and grow attached to a baby and then give it up. When you dont have health care or a job too. Plus parents who dont understand if they are even around. Also there are already a lot more kids who need homes than places to take them. Having the baby is the more selfish of the two choices.

spunkloaf
11-11-2011, 01:50 PM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.


I can agree with that but there is no excuse for forcing health decisions upon anybody. Yes, you're correct. Murder is murder. But abortion is abortion.

Mister D
11-11-2011, 01:51 PM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.


Ummm no, partying has nothing to do with it. It is a lot harder to go through nine months and grow attached to a baby and then give it up. When you dont have health care or a job too. Plus parents who dont understand if they are even around. Also there are already a lot more kids who need homes than places to take them. Having the baby is the more selfish of the two choices.


:D ??? :o Having the baby is the least selfish thing you can do even in the ridiculous scenario you present! Good God! You're one cold mofo, greer.

Mister D
11-11-2011, 01:52 PM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.


I can agree with that but there is no excuse for forcing health decisions upon anybody. Yes, you're correct. Murder is murder. But abortion is abortion.


We're talking abut justification. So you agree with me. Good.

jgreer
11-11-2011, 02:31 PM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.


Ummm no, partying has nothing to do with it. It is a lot harder to go through nine months and grow attached to a baby and then give it up. When you dont have health care or a job too. Plus parents who dont understand if they are even around. Also there are already a lot more kids who need homes than places to take them. Having the baby is the more selfish of the two choices.


:D ??? :o Having the baby is the least selfish thing you can do even in the ridiculous scenario you present! Good God! You're one cold mofo, greer.


No one is talking about killing any thing. Comparing removing a few cells to the mass murder of our military is apples and oranges.

jgreer
11-11-2011, 02:33 PM
If you think no balls of cells should ever be removed because it has a chance to grow up into a person then why do you draw the line at sperm and eggs. Shouldn't every woman be pregnant constantly? After all those are millions and millions of lives that are being denied the right to grow up and become people. Every minute that a woman doesn't spend pregnant is another potential life thrown away. :C

Mister D
11-11-2011, 03:20 PM
If you think no balls of cells should ever be removed because it has a chance to grow up into a person then why do you draw the line at sperm and eggs. Shouldn't every woman be pregnant constantly? After all those are millions and millions of lives that are being denied the right to grow up and become people. Every minute that a woman doesn't spend pregnant is another potential life thrown away. :C


Why would every woman have to be pregnant constantly? What are you talking about, greer? It's been one red herring after another with you.

Mister D
11-11-2011, 03:21 PM
What about a 16 year old unemployed girl?

Adoption. What's the matter? Giving up a few months of partying with her friends too much to ask. Good grief...this ice cold kid blathers on and on about US soldiers being murderers.


Ummm no, partying has nothing to do with it. It is a lot harder to go through nine months and grow attached to a baby and then give it up. When you dont have health care or a job too. Plus parents who dont understand if they are even around. Also there are already a lot more kids who need homes than places to take them. Having the baby is the more selfish of the two choices.


:D ??? :o Having the baby is the least selfish thing you can do even in the ridiculous scenario you present! Good God! You're one cold mofo, greer.


No one is talking about killing any thing. Comparing removing a few cells to the mass murder of our military is apples and oranges.


If the US military is engaged in mass murder then you're President is the head mass murderer.

jgreer
11-11-2011, 04:52 PM
If you think no balls of cells should ever be removed because it has a chance to grow up into a person then why do you draw the line at sperm and eggs. Shouldn't every woman be pregnant constantly? After all those are millions and millions of lives that are being denied the right to grow up and become people. Every minute that a woman doesn't spend pregnant is another potential life thrown away. :C


Why would every woman have to be pregnant constantly? What are you talking about, greer? It's been one red herring after another with you.


Because Captain was saying that every mass of cells is a life that could exist in the future. If the idea is that every life that could be in the future should become a life then it makes sense for everyone to have as many children as possible to save those lives. Otherwise they will never exist. Get it?

Captain Obvious
11-11-2011, 07:03 PM
greer - you suck at debating.

... next.

Mister D
11-11-2011, 07:54 PM
If you think no balls of cells should ever be removed because it has a chance to grow up into a person then why do you draw the line at sperm and eggs. Shouldn't every woman be pregnant constantly? After all those are millions and millions of lives that are being denied the right to grow up and become people. Every minute that a woman doesn't spend pregnant is another potential life thrown away. :C


Why would every woman have to be pregnant constantly? What are you talking about, greer? It's been one red herring after another with you.


Because Captain was saying that every mass of cells is a life that could exist in the future. If the idea is that every life that could be in the future should become a life then it makes sense for everyone to have as many children as possible to save those lives. Otherwise they will never exist. Get it?


No, I don't get it. I think you're the only one who does. ::)

Conley
11-11-2011, 07:59 PM
:D you guys are mean!

Mister D
11-11-2011, 08:02 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)

Conley
11-11-2011, 08:16 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o

Mister D
11-11-2011, 08:38 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.

spunkloaf
11-12-2011, 12:08 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.

GRUMPY
11-12-2011, 12:13 PM
greer - you suck at debating.

... next.

now this is rich.....

Conley
11-12-2011, 12:18 PM
greer - you suck at debating.

... next.

now this is rich.....


:D Is that a swipe at Cap'n? :o

jgreer
11-12-2011, 12:31 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Exactly. Pot meet kettle. You must not have a mirror.

Mister D
11-12-2011, 01:34 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Exactly. Pot meet kettle. You must not have a mirror.


That would have been an appropriate comeback had I been a partisan. Oops!! :D

Mister D
11-12-2011, 01:37 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.

jgreer
11-12-2011, 02:02 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Exactly. Pot meet kettle. You must not have a mirror.


That would have been an appropriate comeback had I been a partisan. Oops!! :D


Show me three posts on here where you've said anything positive about the democrats. I bet you cant even find one

That as partisan as a person can be LOL you are the poster child

Mister D
11-12-2011, 02:05 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Exactly. Pot meet kettle. You must not have a mirror.


That would have been an appropriate comeback had I been a partisan. Oops!! :D


Show me three posts on here where you've said anything positive about the democrats. I bet you cant even find one

That as partisan as a person can be LOL you are the poster child


I haven't said many positive thing about either party, greer. Secondly, you made the claim. You prove it. Furthermore, this thread isn't about Democrats and Republicans and considering you brought that up kind of proves my point. ;)

jgreer
11-12-2011, 02:14 PM
I looked through every one of your posts and there is not one compliment towards Democrats. Therefore it is proved!!

jgreer
11-12-2011, 02:16 PM
showing unreasoning support: showing strong and usually biased support for a cause, especially a political one

you show unreasoning strong and biased support against the Democrats

case closed

Mister D
11-12-2011, 02:31 PM
showing unreasoning support: showing strong and usually biased support for a cause, especially a political one

you show unreasoning strong and biased support against the Democrats

case closed


:D ??? Where!? This is a pretty short thread but I can't seem to find it.

Mister D
11-12-2011, 02:33 PM
I looked through every one of your posts and there is not one compliment towards Democrats. Therefore it is proved!!


You looked through 5542 posts in less than 15 minutes!? :D

jgreer
11-12-2011, 02:33 PM
yes

also 11 pages isnt a short thread

Mister D
11-12-2011, 02:39 PM
yes

also 11 pages isnt a short thread


Do you see any compliments toward the Republicans? ;D

jgreer
11-12-2011, 02:44 PM
yes

also 11 pages isnt a short thread


Do you see any compliments toward the Republicans? ;D


Lots

Mister D
11-12-2011, 03:05 PM
yes

also 11 pages isnt a short thread


Do you see any compliments toward the Republicans? ;D


Lots


Could you point them out. Like you said, it's only 11 pages. ;D

How long will it take before he realizes how bad he looks? ???

Captain Obvious
11-12-2011, 05:57 PM
greer - you suck at debating.

... next.

now this is rich.....


:D Is that a swipe at Cap'n? :o


Right, like grampy is a master debater.

blah, bla bla idiot blah bla bla blabbidy son blah bla bla idiot, blah blabiddy blah obtuse, blah blabbidy blah idiot.

Conley
11-12-2011, 06:15 PM
greer - you suck at debating.

... next.

now this is rich.....


:D Is that a swipe at Cap'n? :o


Right, like grampy is a master debater.

blah, bla bla idiot blah bla bla blabbidy son blah bla bla idiot, blah blabiddy blah obtuse, blah blabbidy blah idiot.


Yep, it's all in how you drop the 'son'.

GRUMPY
11-13-2011, 12:21 PM
greer - you suck at debating.

... next.

now this is rich.....

D Is that a swipe at Cap'n? :o

no not at all just recognition that the cap is basically a pinhead on his best day.....

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 05:29 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.


You have a right to be emotional, but be careful not to let that make you a hypocrite. That then allows other people to be emotional about things they care about, and to debate based upon that.

Mister D
11-13-2011, 05:33 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.


You have a right to be emotional, but be careful not to let that make you a hypocrite. That then allows other people to be emotional about things they care about, and to debate based upon that.


When I say you should be emotional I'm not suggesting emotion crowd out reason. I'm simply saying it's the normal and healthy human reaction.

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 05:58 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.


You have a right to be emotional, but be careful not to let that make you a hypocrite. That then allows other people to be emotional about things they care about, and to debate based upon that.


When I say you should be emotional I'm not suggesting emotion crowd out reason. I'm simply saying it's the normal and healthy human reaction.


Investing emotion into somebody else's fetus is not normal, nor is it understandable. In fact, it's fake as hell.

I know, because I used to be pro-life

People don't give a shit about human rights or what fetuses can "feel." People are just pissed that some woman get to make the decision to abort after having careless sex. people hate that they get to choose not having consequences. Those are the emotions that are associated with pro-lifers. They wont admit it though.

Mister D
11-13-2011, 06:00 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.


You have a right to be emotional, but be careful not to let that make you a hypocrite. That then allows other people to be emotional about things they care about, and to debate based upon that.


When I say you should be emotional I'm not suggesting emotion crowd out reason. I'm simply saying it's the normal and healthy human reaction.


Investing emotion into somebody else's fetus is not normal, nor is it understandable. In fact, it's fake as hell.

I know, because I used to be pro-life

People don't give a shit about human rights or what fetuses can "feel." People are just pissed that some woman get to make the decision to abort after having careless sex. people hate that they get to choose not having consequences. Those are the emotions that are associated with pro-lifers. They wont admit it though.


They won't "admit it" because it's patent nonsense. Part of the problem with the abortion debate is the inability of folks like yourself to approach an opposing point of view honestly.

GRUMPY
11-13-2011, 07:13 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.


You have a right to be emotional, but be careful not to let that make you a hypocrite. That then allows other people to be emotional about things they care about, and to debate based upon that.


When I say you should be emotional I'm not suggesting emotion crowd out reason. I'm simply saying it's the normal and healthy human reaction.


Investing emotion into somebody else's fetus is not normal, nor is it understandable. In fact, it's fake as hell.

I know, because I used to be pro-life

People don't give a shit about human rights or what fetuses can "feel." People are just pissed that some woman get to make the decision to abort after having careless sex. people hate that they get to choose not having consequences. Those are the emotions that are associated with pro-lifers. They wont admit it though.

spunk why don't you admit that you are just a mindless dumbass son....seriously this is just about as stupid and dishonest as one can get.....d, how do you have the patience for this tripe....this is why i say that liberalism is a mindless cult, that demands one divorce themselves from reason, obvious truths and any degree of intellectual honesty whatsoever....

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 07:21 PM
What honesty? I'm honest. More so now than I used to be. I'm an emotional wreck right now but I used to be one big walking hormone.

The argument over abortion is silly, because people want to develop laws over things which do not directly affect them. Also the argument for fathers rights concerning abortion is not silly but it is moot, because fathers have no rights elsewhere anyways.

People have feelings for the unborn, and they also have strong feelings against irresponsible would-be mothers. But this is a classic case of people choosing to look at one side of the issue, when in fact there are almost countless scenarios leading a woman to choose to terminate her own pregnancy. Unfortunately the substance of those scenarios outweighs the substance of people's emotions.

Until it can be decided that a human fetus has a constitutional right to become a human being, abortion will remain a legal and available alternative to women.

The attention will be focused on convincing people that a human fetus is not actually a fetus, but is a living human being which is protected by the constitution. It will be a long, drawn out uphill battle.

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 07:26 PM
:D you guys are mean!


Lean and mean? That is Mister D. 8)


Yup. Not as mean as killing unborn children, but still pretty harsh. :o


I just don't understand how people can be so thoughtlessly partisan about an issue like this.


Diddo. It is thoughtless, and largely based upon emotion.


If there is an issue to be emotional about it's this.


You have a right to be emotional, but be careful not to let that make you a hypocrite. That then allows other people to be emotional about things they care about, and to debate based upon that.


When I say you should be emotional I'm not suggesting emotion crowd out reason. I'm simply saying it's the normal and healthy human reaction.


Investing emotion into somebody else's fetus is not normal, nor is it understandable. In fact, it's fake as hell.

I know, because I used to be pro-life

People don't give a shit about human rights or what fetuses can "feel." People are just pissed that some woman get to make the decision to abort after having careless sex. people hate that they get to choose not having consequences. Those are the emotions that are associated with pro-lifers. They wont admit it though.

spunk why don't you admit that you are just a mindless dumbass son....seriously this is just about as stupid and dishonest as one can get.....d, how do you have the patience for this tripe....this is why i say that liberalism is a mindless cult, that demands one divorce themselves from reason, obvious truths and any degree of intellectual honesty whatsoever....


I want you to admit that you have an abundance of disdain for women who terminate their pregnancies.

I think it's sickening. People have all these "feelings" for unborn babies. But once that baby gets older and starts annoying the shit out of everybody else, you could care less.

I've been told by pro-lifers that they wish my mother would have aborted me on this very forum. You see my point? I'm not a little fetus anymore. People could care less about me. I don't care about that, I'm just making my point. YOU are the one who is being emotionally and intellectually dishonest.

Mister D
11-13-2011, 08:19 PM
What honesty? I'm honest. More so now than I used to be. I'm an emotional wreck right now but I used to be one big walking hormone.

The argument over abortion is silly, because people want to develop laws over things which do not directly affect them. Also the argument for fathers rights concerning abortion is not silly but it is moot, because fathers have no rights elsewhere anyways.

People have feelings for the unborn, and they also have strong feelings against irresponsible would-be mothers. But this is a classic case of people choosing to look at one side of the issue, when in fact there are almost countless scenarios leading a woman to choose to terminate her own pregnancy. Unfortunately the substance of those scenarios outweighs the substance of people's emotions.

Until it can be decided that a human fetus has a constitutional right to become a human being, abortion will remain a legal and available alternative to women.

The attention will be focused on convincing people that a human fetus is not actually a fetus, but is a living human being which is protected by the constitution. It will be a long, drawn out uphill battle.


One thing at a time I guess...

Much of what happens in the world around us (including a great deal of horror and injustice) does not affect us directly as individuals. I do think that in time abortion will be perceived much like slavery was in the past. It was an institution that while regrettable didn't affect most people directly but the reality of it did begin to intrude on the nation's conscience.

Mister D
11-13-2011, 08:21 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D

Conley
11-13-2011, 08:27 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D

Mister D
11-13-2011, 08:43 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D


No one could come up with this thread in a dry county. ;D

Conley
11-13-2011, 08:46 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D


No one could come up with this thread in a dry county. ;D


Dry on Sundays dummy ;D :D

Mister D
11-13-2011, 08:58 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D


No one could come up with this thread in a dry county. ;D


Dry on Sundays dummy ;D :D


As far as I know, a "dry county" prohibits the sale of alcoholic beverages period. You may be thinking of blue laws.

Conley
11-13-2011, 09:04 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D


No one could come up with this thread in a dry county. ;D


Dry on Sundays dummy ;D :D


As far as I know, a "dry county" prohibits the sale of alcoholic beverages period. You may be thinking of blue laws.


Fine. Smartass. :D

Mister D
11-13-2011, 09:10 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D


No one could come up with this thread in a dry county. ;D


Dry on Sundays dummy ;D :D


As far as I know, a "dry county" prohibits the sale of alcoholic beverages period. You may be thinking of blue laws.


Fine. Smartass. :D


:D I just looked that up. Bergen County NJ has some weird blue laws.

One of the last remaining Sunday closing laws, in the United States that covers selling electronics, clothing and furniture is found in Bergen County, New Jersey.[32][33][34] Bergen County, part of the New York metropolitan area, is home to the largest retail shopping malls of any county in the nation, and home to four major malls. The town of Paramus in Bergen County, where three of the four major malls are located in, has even more restrictive blue laws than the county itself, banning all type of work on Sundays except in grocery stores, restaurants, and other entertainment venues. The Bergen County legislature recently wanted to abolish them, but residents who live near Garden State Plaza objected.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law#New_Jersey

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 09:11 PM
What honesty? I'm honest. More so now than I used to be. I'm an emotional wreck right now but I used to be one big walking hormone.

The argument over abortion is silly, because people want to develop laws over things which do not directly affect them. Also the argument for fathers rights concerning abortion is not silly but it is moot, because fathers have no rights elsewhere anyways.

People have feelings for the unborn, and they also have strong feelings against irresponsible would-be mothers. But this is a classic case of people choosing to look at one side of the issue, when in fact there are almost countless scenarios leading a woman to choose to terminate her own pregnancy. Unfortunately the substance of those scenarios outweighs the substance of people's emotions.

Until it can be decided that a human fetus has a constitutional right to become a human being, abortion will remain a legal and available alternative to women.

The attention will be focused on convincing people that a human fetus is not actually a fetus, but is a living human being which is protected by the constitution. It will be a long, drawn out uphill battle.


One thing at a time I guess...

Much of what happens in the world around us (including a great deal of horror and injustice) does not affect us directly as individuals. I do think that in time abortion will be perceived much like slavery was in the past. It was an institution that while regrettable didn't affect most people directly but the reality of it did begin to intrude on the nation's conscience.


I think by that time we might evolve to find out ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies altogether. That is an ultimate cure-all. Nobody has to worry about killing fetuses, and women don't have to worry about getting pregnant unless they want to.

Mister D
11-13-2011, 09:15 PM
What honesty? I'm honest. More so now than I used to be. I'm an emotional wreck right now but I used to be one big walking hormone.

The argument over abortion is silly, because people want to develop laws over things which do not directly affect them. Also the argument for fathers rights concerning abortion is not silly but it is moot, because fathers have no rights elsewhere anyways.

People have feelings for the unborn, and they also have strong feelings against irresponsible would-be mothers. But this is a classic case of people choosing to look at one side of the issue, when in fact there are almost countless scenarios leading a woman to choose to terminate her own pregnancy. Unfortunately the substance of those scenarios outweighs the substance of people's emotions.

Until it can be decided that a human fetus has a constitutional right to become a human being, abortion will remain a legal and available alternative to women.

The attention will be focused on convincing people that a human fetus is not actually a fetus, but is a living human being which is protected by the constitution. It will be a long, drawn out uphill battle.


One thing at a time I guess...

Much of what happens in the world around us (including a great deal of horror and injustice) does not affect us directly as individuals. I do think that in time abortion will be perceived much like slavery was in the past. It was an institution that while regrettable didn't affect most people directly but the reality of it did begin to intrude on the nation's conscience.


I think by that time we might evolve to find out ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies altogether. That is an ultimate cure-all. Nobody has to worry about killing fetuses, and women don't have to worry about getting pregnant unless they want to.


Unwanted pregnancies are the root of the problem. That's true. That said, people are just irresponsible. There are reliable ways to prevent a pregnancy if it is not desired.

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 09:22 PM
It would prevent alot of squabble, violence and unnecessary headache. I still think my comment to Grumpy about people's feelings for fetuses should be addressed. As I said, everybody loves a baby until it grows up somewhat. Then people could care less, and sometimes you wish that person was never born. Not that it justifies killing anybody or anything, but I think that it argues well, and paints a clear and present emotional bias towards small humans versus their larger selves. That should be taken into consideration by anybody claiming to be pro-life, and having feelings for unborn babies.

Conley
11-13-2011, 09:36 PM
Greer must be recovering today. ;D


I can only assume he lives in a dry county ;) :D


No one could come up with this thread in a dry county. ;D


Dry on Sundays dummy ;D :D


As far as I know, a "dry county" prohibits the sale of alcoholic beverages period. You may be thinking of blue laws.


Fine. Smartass. :D


:D I just looked that up. Bergen County NJ has some weird blue laws.

One of the last remaining Sunday closing laws, in the United States that covers selling electronics, clothing and furniture is found in Bergen County, New Jersey.[32][33][34] Bergen County, part of the New York metropolitan area, is home to the largest retail shopping malls of any county in the nation, and home to four major malls. The town of Paramus in Bergen County, where three of the four major malls are located in, has even more restrictive blue laws than the county itself, banning all type of work on Sundays except in grocery stores, restaurants, and other entertainment venues. The Bergen County legislature recently wanted to abolish them, but residents who live near Garden State Plaza objected.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law#New_Jersey


:D That's wild.

Mister D
11-13-2011, 09:50 PM
It would prevent alot of squabble, violence and unnecessary headache. I still think my comment to Grumpy about people's feelings for fetuses should be addressed. As I said, everybody loves a baby until it grows up somewhat. Then people could care less, and sometimes you wish that person was never born. Not that it justifies killing anybody or anything, but I think that it argues well, and paints a clear and present emotional bias towards small humans versus their larger selves. That should be taken into consideration by anybody claiming to be pro-life, and having feelings for unborn babies.


Grumpy can speak for himself but Captain made a comment earlier that I thin is pertinent.


I have an 8yr old, he's pissing me off right now by repeatedly attacking his bean bag on the bed I'm sitting on. He wasn't planned and yet we, as morally and ethically, responsibly conscious humans decided to have him. Actually, it wasn't a decision. Abortion was never a thought.

I think you'd be surprised by how many pro-lifers have similar sentiments. Are there pro-lifers who's views fit your description? Sure. I encounter pro-lifers who seem to focus on the political dimension so much it seems like abortion is just an issue they use to attack Democrats.

spunkloaf
11-13-2011, 10:43 PM
It would prevent alot of squabble, violence and unnecessary headache. I still think my comment to Grumpy about people's feelings for fetuses should be addressed. As I said, everybody loves a baby until it grows up somewhat. Then people could care less, and sometimes you wish that person was never born. Not that it justifies killing anybody or anything, but I think that it argues well, and paints a clear and present emotional bias towards small humans versus their larger selves. That should be taken into consideration by anybody claiming to be pro-life, and having feelings for unborn babies.


Grumpy can speak for himself but Captain made a comment earlier that I thin is pertinent.


I have an 8yr old, he's pissing me off right now by repeatedly attacking his bean bag on the bed I'm sitting on. He wasn't planned and yet we, as morally and ethically, responsibly conscious humans decided to have him. Actually, it wasn't a decision. Abortion was never a thought.

I think you'd be surprised by how many pro-lifers have similar sentiments. Are there pro-lifers who's views fit your description? Sure. I encounter pro-lifers who seem to focus on the political dimension so much it seems like abortion is just an issue they use to attack Democrats.


So that viewpoint balances mine. It certainly does not outweigh it, being that he feels a responsibility as a father. That comes natural with a good relationship. In other situations that is not the case. As a matter of fact, Captain might feel some resentment towards people who choose to terminate their pregnancy because he and his loved one did not. I'm not saying that having a child trumps anybody's opinion on abortion. My good friend has a daughter, but he still feels abortion should remain an option for women.

After everything is said and done, the conversation still has not transcended arguments of emotion. Factual arguments bring the issue to a stalemate at best, and it comes down to a standoff between the woman and her fetus.

jgreer
11-14-2011, 11:06 AM
Of course no parent is going to admit wishing they had aborted their child LOL Duh

However you cant deny that a lot of peoples lives probably would have been better if they had never had kids

Look at that pedophile from Pennsylvania. The world would have been better if he had been aborted. Just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should thats what pro lifers dont get!!!

spunkloaf
11-14-2011, 11:51 AM
jgreer I like what you're saying, but I didn't start that thread.

Conley
11-14-2011, 11:58 AM
Jgreer you should edit that, it kind of looks like you are calling Spunk a pedophile (I know you don't mean that). And yeah, he didn't start that thread it was me ;D Actually Captain started one too. :D

spunkloaf
11-14-2011, 12:10 PM
Jgreer you should edit that, it kind of looks like you are calling Spunk a pedophile (I know you don't mean that). And yeah, he didn't start that thread it was me ;D Actually Captain started one too. :D


:D

jgreer you BUTTHOLE!

jgreer
11-14-2011, 12:24 PM
Srsly? OK well I fixed it

GRUMPY
11-14-2011, 02:08 PM
What honesty? I'm honest. More so now than I used to be. I'm an emotional wreck right now but I used to be one big walking hormone.

The argument over abortion is silly, because people want to develop laws over things which do not directly affect them. Also the argument for fathers rights concerning abortion is not silly but it is moot, because fathers have no rights elsewhere anyways.

People have feelings for the unborn, and they also have strong feelings against irresponsible would-be mothers. But this is a classic case of people choosing to look at one side of the issue, when in fact there are almost countless scenarios leading a woman to choose to terminate her own pregnancy. Unfortunately the substance of those scenarios outweighs the substance of people's emotions.

Until it can be decided that a human fetus has a constitutional right to become a human being, abortion will remain a legal and available alternative to women.

The attention will be focused on convincing people that a human fetus is not actually a fetus, but is a living human being which is protected by the constitution. It will be a long, drawn out uphill battle.


One thing at a time I guess...

Much of what happens in the world around us (including a great deal of horror and injustice) does not affect us directly as individuals. I do think that in time abortion will be perceived much like slavery was in the past. It was an institution that while regrettable didn't affect most people directly but the reality of it did begin to intrude on the nation's conscience.


I think by that time we might evolve to find out ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies altogether. That is an ultimate cure-all. Nobody has to worry about killing fetuses, and women don't have to worry about getting pregnant unless they want to.

abortion is morally repugnant.....and yes spunk when one as you struggles to diminish life it effects us all for as the left mindlessly and soullessly devalues life they tear at the ethical cloth that is society.....abortion is another symptom of a culture that is arrogant and self absorbed.....juvenile.....i highlighted you absence of thought to let others consider it, for somehow in the world of spunk we, women must yet "evolve to find out ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies altogether."

Conley
11-14-2011, 02:13 PM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?

Mister D
11-14-2011, 03:12 PM
Of course no parent is going to admit wishing they had aborted their child LOL Duh

However you cant deny that a lot of peoples lives probably would have been better if they had never had kids

Look at that pedophile from Pennsylvania. The world would have been better if he had been aborted. Just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should thats what pro lifers dont get!!!


We would have a lot less crime if black women would have more abortions but I'm not prepared to argue for that.

Mr. Wonderful
11-14-2011, 03:34 PM
Why not? It is the truth.

Mister D
11-14-2011, 03:48 PM
Why not? It is the truth.


Well, I'm curious to see greer's answer.

spunkloaf
11-14-2011, 05:44 PM
What honesty? I'm honest. More so now than I used to be. I'm an emotional wreck right now but I used to be one big walking hormone.

The argument over abortion is silly, because people want to develop laws over things which do not directly affect them. Also the argument for fathers rights concerning abortion is not silly but it is moot, because fathers have no rights elsewhere anyways.

People have feelings for the unborn, and they also have strong feelings against irresponsible would-be mothers. But this is a classic case of people choosing to look at one side of the issue, when in fact there are almost countless scenarios leading a woman to choose to terminate her own pregnancy. Unfortunately the substance of those scenarios outweighs the substance of people's emotions.

Until it can be decided that a human fetus has a constitutional right to become a human being, abortion will remain a legal and available alternative to women.

The attention will be focused on convincing people that a human fetus is not actually a fetus, but is a living human being which is protected by the constitution. It will be a long, drawn out uphill battle.


One thing at a time I guess...

Much of what happens in the world around us (including a great deal of horror and injustice) does not affect us directly as individuals. I do think that in time abortion will be perceived much like slavery was in the past. It was an institution that while regrettable didn't affect most people directly but the reality of it did begin to intrude on the nation's conscience.


I think by that time we might evolve to find out ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies altogether. That is an ultimate cure-all. Nobody has to worry about killing fetuses, and women don't have to worry about getting pregnant unless they want to.

abortion is morally repugnant.....and yes spunk when one as you struggles to diminish life it effects us all for as the left mindlessly and soullessly devalues life they tear at the ethical cloth that is society.....abortion is another symptom of a culture that is arrogant and self absorbed.....juvenile.....i highlighted you absence of thought to let others consider it, for somehow in the world of spunk we, women must yet "evolve to find out ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies altogether."


Sounds to me like you're just being grumpy. ;D

spunkloaf
11-14-2011, 05:50 PM
Of course no parent is going to admit wishing they had aborted their child LOL Duh

However you cant deny that a lot of peoples lives probably would have been better if they had never had kids

Look at that pedophile from Pennsylvania. The world would have been better if he had been aborted. Just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should thats what pro lifers dont get!!!


We would have a lot less crime if black women would have more abortions but I'm not prepared to argue for that.


We would have a lot less crime if some people in the black community stop whining and dooming themselves into poverty. Why would any woman get an abortion these days, black or not? A single kid can generate a lot of welfare money.

BTW I got a whiny black guy to pay his bills today. You just got to have skills like the spunk has. ;D As a matter of fact, I'm sitting at $4k collected so far today, it's at least my 3rd best day at the company so far....just to brag.

Conley
11-14-2011, 05:59 PM
Think how much more you could have made if you weren't wasting time on here :D

jgreer
11-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Of course no parent is going to admit wishing they had aborted their child LOL Duh

However you cant deny that a lot of peoples lives probably would have been better if they had never had kids

Look at that pedophile from Pennsylvania. The world would have been better if he had been aborted. Just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should thats what pro lifers dont get!!!


We would have a lot less crime if black women would have more abortions but I'm not prepared to argue for that.


How do you know you wouldnt be aborting black cops? Or the next black president of the United States? That right you dont

Mister D
11-14-2011, 07:08 PM
Of course no parent is going to admit wishing they had aborted their child LOL Duh

However you cant deny that a lot of peoples lives probably would have been better if they had never had kids

Look at that pedophile from Pennsylvania. The world would have been better if he had been aborted. Just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should thats what pro lifers dont get!!!


We would have a lot less crime if black women would have more abortions but I'm not prepared to argue for that.


How do you know you wouldnt be aborting black cops? Or the next black president of the United States? That right you dont


Right. Get it now, dumb ass? :D ::)

Captain Obvious
11-14-2011, 07:39 PM
Of course no parent is going to admit wishing they had aborted their child LOL Duh

However you cant deny that a lot of peoples lives probably would have been better if they had never had kids

Look at that pedophile from Pennsylvania. The world would have been better if he had been aborted. Just because you can have kids doesnt mean you should thats what pro lifers dont get!!!


We would have a lot less crime if black women would have more abortions but I'm not prepared to argue for that.


How do you know you wouldnt be aborting black cops? Or the next black president of the United States? That right you dont


Right. Get it now, dumb ass? :D ::)


greer hoisted his own petard.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Mister D
11-14-2011, 07:46 PM
:thumbsup20:

Captain is getting Shakespearean on us! :o ;D

GRUMPY
11-14-2011, 10:12 PM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?

where do i begin....first the vast majority of pregnancies wanted, unwanted, whatever are not due to rape, incest or you being too large for a jimmy....unprotected sex by individuals in relationships that are temporary or not at all....second at the moment of conception that is life, human life and any assertion to the contrary is wrong....third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant....arguments re viability are just bs to excuse the inexcusable, i could apply those very arguments to newborns, the aged etc....fourth abortion was not a constitutional issue in my opinion, but if it is it is on the issue of life not some gals perceived right to take life.....finally i would note that many of those supporting abortion also oppose the death penalty and have no stake in that either.....really this is a test of our humanity is it not......man is not man due to his advanced intellect, it is due to an innate sense of morality and it is that morality that makes us human after all....

Conley
11-14-2011, 10:17 PM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?

where do i begin....first the vast majority of pregnancies wanted, unwanted, whatever are not due to rape, incest or you being too large for a jimmy....unprotected sex by individuals in relationships that are temporary or not at all....second at the moment of conception that is life, human life and any assertion to the contrary is wrong....third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant....arguments re viability are just bs to excuse the inexcusable, i could apply those very arguments to newborns, the aged etc....fourth abortion was not a constitutional issue in my opinion, but if it is it is on the issue of life not some gals perceived right to take life.....finally i would note that many of those supporting abortion also oppose the death penalty and have no stake in that either.....really this is a test of our humanity is it not......man is not man due to his advanced intellect, it is due to an innate sense of morality and it is that morality that makes us human after all....


That is all well and good, and I might even agree with most of it, but you didn't answer either of my questions.

Mister D
11-14-2011, 10:19 PM
third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant

This is by far the most troubling aspect for me. This is what it comes down in the vast majority of cases.

Captain Obvious
11-14-2011, 10:34 PM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?

where do i begin....first the vast majority of pregnancies wanted, unwanted, whatever are not due to rape, incest or you being too large for a jimmy....unprotected sex by individuals in relationships that are temporary or not at all....second at the moment of conception that is life, human life and any assertion to the contrary is wrong....third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant....arguments re viability are just bs to excuse the inexcusable, i could apply those very arguments to newborns, the aged etc....fourth abortion was not a constitutional issue in my opinion, but if it is it is on the issue of life not some gals perceived right to take life.....finally i would note that many of those supporting abortion also oppose the death penalty and have no stake in that either.....really this is a test of our humanity is it not......man is not man due to his advanced intellect, it is due to an innate sense of morality and it is that morality that makes us human after all....


That is all well and good, and I might even agree with most of it, but you didn't answer either of my questions.


grumpy uses the most effective form of birth control ever - his personality.

Conley
11-14-2011, 10:58 PM
:roflmao:

GRUMPY
11-15-2011, 06:55 AM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?
where do i begin....first the vast majority of pregnancies wanted, unwanted, whatever are not due to rape, incest or you being too large for a jimmy....unprotected sex by individuals in relationships that are temporary or not at all....second at the moment of conception that is life, human life and any assertion to the contrary is wrong....third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant....arguments re viability are just bs to excuse the inexcusable, i could apply those very arguments to newborns, the aged etc....fourth abortion was not a constitutional issue in my opinion, but if it is it is on the issue of life not some gals perceived right to take life.....finally i would note that many of those supporting abortion also oppose the death penalty and have no stake in that either.....really this is a test of our humanity is it not......man is not man due to his advanced intellect, it is due to an innate sense of morality and it is that morality that makes us human after all....


That is all well and good, and I might even agree with most of it, but you didn't answer either of my questions.

was there a question in there.....

GRUMPY
11-15-2011, 06:58 AM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?

where do i begin....first the vast majority of pregnancies wanted, unwanted, whatever are not due to rape, incest or you being too large for a jimmy....unprotected sex by individuals in relationships that are temporary or not at all....second at the moment of conception that is life, human life and any assertion to the contrary is wrong....third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant....arguments re viability are just bs to excuse the inexcusable, i could apply those very arguments to newborns, the aged etc....fourth abortion was not a constitutional issue in my opinion, but if it is it is on the issue of life not some gals perceived right to take life.....finally i would note that many of those supporting abortion also oppose the death penalty and have no stake in that either.....really this is a test of our humanity is it not......man is not man due to his advanced intellect, it is due to an innate sense of morality and it is that morality that makes us human after all....


That is all well and good, and I might even agree with most of it, but you didn't answer either of my questions.


grumpy uses the most effective form of birth control ever - his personality.

and this is why i dismiss cap as a pinhead.....this is a fairly important conversation son, pull your pinhead out of your arse and at least attempt to give it some thought......

Captain Obvious
11-15-2011, 07:38 PM
How do you feel about birth control?

If we could get a 100% effective means of birth control it would be a great thing. Nothing like that exists right now. You can be careful and still end up with a pregnancy. If that's what Spunk is saying, do you have a problem with that?

where do i begin....first the vast majority of pregnancies wanted, unwanted, whatever are not due to rape, incest or you being too large for a jimmy....unprotected sex by individuals in relationships that are temporary or not at all....second at the moment of conception that is life, human life and any assertion to the contrary is wrong....third the taking of innocent human life because it is inconvenient is morally repugnant....arguments re viability are just bs to excuse the inexcusable, i could apply those very arguments to newborns, the aged etc....fourth abortion was not a constitutional issue in my opinion, but if it is it is on the issue of life not some gals perceived right to take life.....finally i would note that many of those supporting abortion also oppose the death penalty and have no stake in that either.....really this is a test of our humanity is it not......man is not man due to his advanced intellect, it is due to an innate sense of morality and it is that morality that makes us human after all....


That is all well and good, and I might even agree with most of it, but you didn't answer either of my questions.


grumpy uses the most effective form of birth control ever - his personality.

and this is why i dismiss cap as a pinhead.....this is a fairly important conversation son, pull your pinhead out of your arse and at least attempt to give it some thought......


Guy Laughing Hysterically at Himself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPuccvF_p3o#)

Conley
11-15-2011, 07:42 PM
Sexy.

jgreer
11-19-2011, 01:15 PM
Ok so now that weve settled abortion whats the next topic?

Mister D
11-19-2011, 01:53 PM
Ok so now that weve settled abortion whats the next topic?


Settled? ???

Why don't you pick the topic this t9ime and see if anyone is interested?

jgreer
11-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Well just reading it over you guys couldnt come back with a counter so i guess Spunk and me won.

You can pick or i will i dont care

Mister D
11-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Well just reading it over you guys couldnt come back with a counter so i guess Spunk and me won.

You can pick or i will i dont care


Counter to what, greer?

jgreer
11-19-2011, 02:06 PM
Me and Spunks points on abortion

Conley
11-19-2011, 02:18 PM
No offense but I think Spunk did a much better job arguing the position. But it's good that you're practicing. Maybe eventually you can get to Grump's level and win a debate just by saying "son". Mister D is working on it too ;D

Mister D
11-19-2011, 03:02 PM
No offense but I think Spunk did a much better job arguing the position. But it's good that you're practicing. Maybe eventually you can get to Grump's level and win a debate just by saying "son". Mister D is working on it too ;D


I'm almost there, son. ;)