A correction regarding Iran

[Pendragon]

At no point in history has Iran nor any of the leaders of Iran ever stated that the goal of their country or citizens was the end of Israel.

This is simply a false allegation that has been repeated by the West so many times that those who are not paying close attention fail to realize.

As evidence and support of my argument, I proffer the following:

"Debate still runs as to whether Khomeini called out: “Israel must be wiped off the map”[13] indicating military action and destruction, or: “this regime occupying Jerusalem should vanish from the pages of time” indicating a hope or wish (see Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel#"Wiped off the map" or "Vanish from the pages of time" translation)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_ma p.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_transl ation

12.^ Al Jazeera: Khomeini coined the term 'Little Satan' for Israel (link doesn't work anymore)
13.^ Khomeini is quoted as: “Israel must be wiped off the map”,France24, 2008-03-10
14.^ Arabs Still Want to Destroy Israel by Daniel Pipes, Wall Street Journal, 18 January 2002
15.^ Khamenei 15 Dec 2000: state Israel “should be removed”, that piece of land “returned to Islamic hands”. CNN, 15 December 2000

1.^ "Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map", IRIB News, October 26, 2005.
2.^ a b Fathi, Nazila (October 30, 2005). "Text of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Speech". Week in Review (The New York Times). Retrieved 2006-10-17.
3.^ "Reuters UK article". Reuters. Retrieved October 28, 2005.
4.^ a b "European Parliament rips Iran leader’s remarks". Iran Focus. Retrieved November 17, 2005.
5.^ Cooper, Helene; Sanger, David E. (June 4, 2006). "NYTimes Article". The New York Times. Retrieved May 12, 2010.
6.^ "Reuters Article".
7.^ wipe off the map - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia
8.^ AskOxford: map
9.^ Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press
10.^ Ahmadinejad, Mahmoud (2005-10-26). "(speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 26 October 2005)". The President's Office (Iran). Archived from the original on 2006-06-25. Retrieved 2010-08-29.)
11.^ Arash Norouzi Explains the "Wiped Off the Map" Controversy, huffingtonpost.com, January 19, 2007
12.^ Cole, Juan (May 3, 2006). "Hitchens the Hacker; And, Hitchens the Orientalist And, "We don't Want Your Stinking War!". Retrieved 2006-05-04.
13.^ a b Bronner, Ethan (June 11, 2006). "Just How Far Did They Go, Those Words Against Israel?". The New York Times. Retrieved November 10, 2010.
14.^ "Special Dispatch Series — No. 1013". MEMRI. October 28, 2005. Retrieved 2006-05-03.
15.^ Iran denies wanting to 'wipe Israel off the map' [Archive] - Iran Defence Forum

Please do not spread this ignorance.

Thanks be to you.

[MMC]

Correction on the Correction concerning remarks and or actions on the Destruction and or implied destruction of Israel.....

http://www.jcpa.org/text/ahmadinejad2-words.pdf

What Iranian Leaders Really Say
about Doing Away with Israel:
A Refutation of the Campaign to Excuse
Ahmadinejad’s Incitement to Genocide.....

Over the past several years, Iranian leaders – most prominently, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad– have made numerous statements calling for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. While certain experts have interpreted these statements to be simple expressions of dissatisfaction with the current Israeli government and its policies, in reality, the intent behind Ahmadinejad’s language and that of others is clear.

• What emerges from a comprehensive analysis of what Ahmadinejad actually said – and how it has been
interpreted in Iran – is that the Iranian president was not just calling for “regime change” in Jerusalem, but rather the actual physical destruction of the State of Israel. When Ahmadinejad punctuates his speech with “Death to Israel” (marg bar Esraiil), this is no longer open to various interpretations.
• A common motif of genocide incitement is the dehumanization of the target population. The Nazi weekly Der
Stürmer portrayed Jews as parasites and locusts. Ahmadinejad said in a speech on February 20, 2008: “In the
Middle East, they [the global powers] have created a black and filthy microbe called the Zionist regime.”
• Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who succeeded Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989, has made statements about Israel similar to Ahmadinejad. On December 15, 2000, he declared on Iranian TV:
“Iran’s position, which was first expressed by the Imam [Khomeini] and stated several times by those responsible, is that the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.”
• Michael Axworthy, who served as the Head of the Iran Section of Britain’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office, notes that when the slogan “Israel must be wiped off the map” appeared “draped over missiles in military parades, that meaning was pretty clear.”
• There is an ample legal basis for the prosecution of Ahmadinejad in the International Court of Justiceand the International Criminal Court for direct and public incitement to commit genocide and crimes against humanity.

Nice try Pen.....do you Speak Arameic? Arabic? Western interpretation is not what makes the World go round, now does it?

[hellraiser]

thank you pen

persians being punished but it is not right

bush did not speak for all americans same for other countries

[MMC]

Over the past several years, Iranian leaders – most prominently, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad– have made numerous statements calling for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Some of these statements have been interpreted by certain journalists and experts on Iran to be simple expressions of dissatisfaction with the Israeli presence in the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem, or with the current Israeli government and its policies.

Juan Cole of the University of Michigan argues that Ahmadinejad was not calling for the destruction of Israel, saying, “Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian.” The British Guardian’s Jonathan Steele argued that Ahmadinejad was simply remarking that “this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.” Steele continues: “He was not
making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The ‘page of time’ phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon.”

Scholars continue to soft-pedal the Iranian President’s words. Professor Stephen Walt, who previously served as academic dean of Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government and co-authored The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy along with Professor John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago, told a Jerusalem audience during a joint appearance in early June 2008, “I don’t think he is inciting to
genocide,” when asked about Ahmadinejad’s call to wipe Israel off the map.

In reality, the intent behind Ahmadinejad’s language is clear. Those who seek to excuse Iranian leaders should not remain unchallenged when they use the tools of scholarship as a smokescreen to obfuscate these extreme and deliberate calls for the destruction of Israel. Language entails meaning. These statements have been interpreted by leading Iranian blogs and news outlets – some official – to mean the destruction of Israel.....snip~

[MMC]

What emerges from a comprehensive analysis of what Ahmadinejad actually said – and how it has been interpreted in Iran – is that the Iranian president was not just calling for “regime change” in Jerusalem, but rather the actual physical destruction of the State of Israel. After all, it is hard to wipe a country off the map without destroying its population as well.

The Iranian government itself reinforced this understanding with its own rendition of his slogans on posters and billboards during official parades. Those who try to make Ahmadinejad’s statements excusable by narrowing their meaning to a change of Israel’s ruling coalition are misleading their readers. The plain meaning of what Ahmadinejad has declared constitutes a call for genocide – the destruction of the Jewish state and its residents.....snip~ ;)

[MMC]

A contextual examination of these statements demonstrates beyond a doubt that when Iranian leaders use the euphemism “Zionist regime” or “the Jerusalem-occupying regime,” they are most definitely referring to the State of Israel and not to the present regime. Iranian leaders are simply following the time-worn practice in the Arab
world of referring to the “Zionist regime” in an attempt to avoid dignifying Israel by recognizing its name.

Iranian leaders are also not talking about a non-directed, natural historical process that will end with Israel’s demise. Rather, they are actively advocating Israel’s destruction and have made it clear that they have the will and the means to effect it.....snip~ ;)

[MMC]

Mincing words are we Pen? Western Interpretation is just that. An intepretation! With the language, both physical and mentally. body language, facial expressions, hand movements, and that little known fact of when one looks up to the imaginative side of the brain. Then we know they are visually accesssing their imaginative reasoning. and deductions. So in essence we have a line on whether such is the truth and or what the individual believes to be the truth.

Moreover actions speak louder than Words. 8)

[jgreer]

Do you think that Iran uses the exact same expressions we do? They don't have sayings like wipe so and so off the map or a drop in the bucket or a leopard can't change his spots etc. Those are called idioms and you can't really translate them word for word. If Iran says they are being misquoted then I believe them. If you want to believe the media you are always bashing than go ahead.

[MMC]

Do you think that Iran uses the exact same expressions we do? They don't have sayings like wipe so and so off the map or a drop in the bucket or a leopard can't change his spots etc. Those are called idioms and you can't really translate them word for word. If Iran says they are being misquoted then I believe them. If you want to believe the media you are always bashing than go ahead.


Except for the fact of those parades with the Flags Drapped over the Missiles and of Course those that speak the language and all full well know the meaning and the intention of those words. Do read and write Farsi JG?

[jgreer]

I think it is sad that some (maybe you I don't know) are so eager for war and are willing to put words in the mouth of Iranians to make it happen

[MMC]

I think it is sad that some (maybe you I don't know) are so eager for war and are willing to put words in the mouth of Iranians to make it happen


Just telling it like it is JG.....because the West likes to play games with terminolgy. The real truth is. There is no mistaking their intentions. Most of their parades, even supporters walk with signs with Death to Israel.

[Conley]

thank you pen

persians being punished but it is not right

bush did not speak for all americans same for other countries


HR, are you Persian?

To reassure you most Americans are well aware that Ahmadinejad does not express the will of all Iranian people. Still, he is one of the leaders there, and many of those leaders seem determined to destroy Israel. He is not the only one calling for it.

[Captain Obvious]

How do you explain Iran's denial of the Holocaust issue?

[Peter1469]

I know what happened. Those crazy Jooos switched translators to make it sound like Iranian peace messages were really cries for the destruction of Israel.

We are onto those Jooos.

[Mister D]

I know what happened. Those crazy Jooos switched translators to make it sound like Iranian peace messages were really cries for the destruction of Israel.

We are onto those Jooos.


;D

[Conley]

I know what happened. Those crazy Jooos switched translators to make it sound like Iranian peace messages were really cries for the destruction of Israel.

We are onto those Jooos.


:D David Banana is that you? :o

[MMC]

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1304543900503&id=cebd769e636c6c6ffcb6310d51cc6823&url=http%3a%2f%2fph.cdn.photos.upi.com%2fsv%2femb% 2fUPI-23561310751046%2f7cd2854e283e4bce9b3585a36429ba73% 2fExpert-questions-anti-Iran-missile-shield.jpg http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1365980097984&id=26a935d639e3d8655faa997da54c92d8&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.chinapost.com.tw%2fnews_image s%2f20090419%2fp2b.jpg http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1261048235632&id=e847534b124846d380706344057e2dc2&url=http%3a%2f%2fi.ytimg.com%2fvi%2fUZpLFvcJaIM%2f 0.jpg

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1305298477733&id=d72d262299b3d9b6dbf9b61de6f9540c&url=http%3a%2f%2fnews.xinhuanet.com%2fenglish%2f20 09-09%2f22%2fxin_102090622210590629971.jpg

They always have banners on their tech..... ;)

[jgreer]

Iran doesnt deny the holocaust that is another urban myth spread by those who want to make Iran look bad

[MMC]

Iran doesnt deny the holocaust that is another urban myth spread by those who want to make Iran look bad


Well it is no urban myth about banners around their Missiles and Military Parades. Now is there? ::) ;)

[jgreer]

Huh?

We write messages on our bombs too. Every country does that. Didn't you say you were in the military?

[MMC]

Huh?

We write messages on our bombs too. Every country does that. Didn't you say you were in the military?


Except for the Fact that we do NOT parade out our finest technology. Nor do we put any banners or names on missiles or bombs in parades, in front of our Citizens.

What you are talking about is when engaged in the Act of War when one has an enemy to kill!!!!! http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/icon_salut.gif

[jgreer]

Different countries have different customs.

[MMC]

Different countries have different customs.


Not when Implying Socio-cultural threats and intimidation. Meaning they can't change human nature! http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/rulez.gif

[Mister D]

Iran doesnt deny the holocaust that is another urban myth spread by those who want to make Iran look bad


:D ::)

[Pendragon]

Sigh.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly stated his belief in the Holocaust.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=773638342167920349&hl=en#

http://www.theisraelproject.org/atf/cf/%7B84DC5887-741E-4056-8D91-A389164BC94E%7D/20070924AHMADINEJADCOLUMBIATRANSCRIPT.DOC

[Mister D]

Sigh.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly stated his belief in the Holocaust.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=773638342167920349&hl=en#

http://www.theisraelproject.org/atf/cf/%7B84DC5887-741E-4056-8D91-A389164BC94E%7D/20070924AHMADINEJADCOLUMBIATRANSCRIPT.DOC


Your friend speaks out of both sides of his mouth. ::) Good God you people are gullible.

[Mister D]

International condemnation has greeted comments by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that the Nazi Holocaust was "a myth".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4529198.stm

Speaking yesterday at a press conference on the sidelines of the OIC summit in Mecca, Ahmadinejad said: "Some European countries insist on saying that during World War II, Hitler burned millions of Jews. And they insist so strongly on this issue that anyone who denies it is condemned and sent to prison.



"Although we don’t believe this claim," the Iranian president continued, "let's suppose what the Europeans say is true.... Let's give some land to the Zionists in Europe or in Germany or Austria. We will also support it." He added: "They faced injustice in Europe, so why do the repercussions fall on the Palestinians?"

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1063690.html

[Conley]

:D This correction thread sure is full of corrections.

[Mister D]

:D This correction thread sure is full of corrections.


Iran's leadership needs no help embarrassing itself on the public stage.

[Captain Obvious]

Sigh.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly stated his belief in the Holocaust.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=773638342167920349&hl=en#

http://www.theisraelproject.org/atf/cf/%7B84DC5887-741E-4056-8D91-A389164BC94E%7D/20070924AHMADINEJADCOLUMBIATRANSCRIPT.DOC


Your friend speaks out of both sides of his mouth. ::) Good God you people are gullible.


Exactly.

JG believes what he wants to believe.

[Peter1469]

I bet the movie The 300 really pissed that guy off.

[Mister D]

I bet the movie The 300 really pissed that guy off.


;D What did you think?

[Conley]

The 'This is Sparta' flick? I never saw it...can someone explain please? O0

[Mister D]

The 'This is Sparta' flick? I never saw it...can someone explain please? O0


It's a movie about the Battle of Thermopylae.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

[Captain Obvious]

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/284176/81238098.gif