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Mister D
04-06-2013, 02:34 PM
Albert Sidney Johnston's Army of the Mississippi surprised the Federal Army of the Tennessee led by U.S. Grant early in the morning of April 6, 1862. Shiloh has always captured my imagination. I think it's a combination of the sheer chaos of the morning's fighting as well as the amateurish nature of the whole debacle. The two were no doubt related. It's amazing that the Confederates were even able to achieve surprise because the troops had been unconscionably noisy on the approach march. They had randomly fired their weapons to test them or to shoot game. Fortunately for them, the Federals were camping as if there wasn't a war going on. In the wee hours of April 6, an exasperated General Sherman (yes, that Sherman) sent out a patrol (the 25th Missouri, I believe) that stumbled into Johnston's battle line around 6 AM. The morning saw the Confederates overrun one ad hoc Federal position after another , including the camps, until a mixed bag of regiments made a determined stand along a sunken road that would henceforth be known as The Hornet's Nest. It took some hard fighting before the position could be taken which prevented a decisive Confederate victory and saved the Federal force from being pushed into the Tennessee River. It was during Confederate assault on the sunken road that Johnston, a hero of the south and a widely respected commander, was killed.

http://www.history.com/topics/battle-of-shiloh

pjohns
04-06-2013, 03:05 PM
Excellent post!

I would just add that the failure of reinforcements to arrive from Arkansas fatally wounded the Confederates' chances of victory at Shiloh (a.k.a. Pittsburg Landing). The Union, on the other hand, did receive reinforcements, from Major Gen. Don Carlos Buell's Army of the Ohio. And this amounted to the difference.

The number of soldiers killed on each side was about the same (1,754 Union soldiers killed versus 1,728 Confederate soldiers killed), as was the number of soldiers wounded (8,408 Union soldiers wounded versus 8,012 Confederate soldiers wounded). And the Confederates did much better with regard to soldiers either missing in action or captured (just 959 on the Confederate side, versus 2,885--almost three times as many--on the Union side).

Still, Shiloh is usually viewed as a Union victory.

That is because the Union army had not been pushed back, as had been intended. Rather, it remained poised over the South, ready to strike again.

And this would prove to be a precursor of the siege at Vicksburg, Mississippi, some 15 months later (also near the Mississippi River). The latter would divide the Confederacy, and thereby ensure a Union victory.

Peter1469
04-06-2013, 03:08 PM
The Battle of the Wilderness http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/va046.htm (not far from here) is the one that fascinates me almost as much as Gettysburg. It was a light infantry battle in heavy woods and combat cause fire to rush through and killed lots of wounded. It literally became hell.

Mister D
04-06-2013, 03:18 PM
Excellent post!

I would just add that the failure of reinforcements to arrive from Arkansas fatally wounded the Confederates' chances of victory at Shiloh (a.k.a. Pittsburg Landing). The Union, on the other hand, did receive reinforcements, from Major Gen. Don Carlos Buell's Army of the Ohio. And this amounted to the difference.

The number of soldiers killed on each side was about the same (1,754 Union soldiers killed versus 1,728 Confederate soldiers killed), as was the number of soldiers wounded (8,408 Union soldiers wounded versus 8,012 Confederate soldiers wounded). And the Confederates did much better with regard to soldiers either missing in action or captured (just 959 on the Confederate side, versus 2,885--almost three times as many--on the Union side).

Still, Shiloh is usually viewed as a Union victory.

That is because the Union army had not been pushed back, as had been intended. Rather, it remained poised over the South, ready to strike again.

And this would prove to be a precursor of the siege at Vicksburg, Mississippi, some 15 months later (also near the Mississippi River). The latter would divide the Confederacy, and thereby ensure a Union victory.

Thanks.

I can see the reasoning behind considering it a Union victory. Still, disaster was only narrowly avoided. It's interesting to think of how the south would have fared in the west had Johnston survived. At the time, he inspired as much admiration as General Lee.

Mister D
04-06-2013, 03:21 PM
The Battle of the Wilderness http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/va046.htm (not far from here) is the one that fascinates me almost as much as Gettysburg. It was a light infantry battle in heavy woods and combat cause fire to rush through and killed lots of wounded. It literally became hell.

Spotsylvania Courthouse should be close by too. That was an interesting and bloody campaign. Much like Shiloh and Chickamauga, the tangled undergrowth and wooded areas prevented artillery from playing much of a role in the Battle of the Wilderness.

Incidentally, that is the same ground over which the Battle of Chancellorsville had been fought the Summer before. Soldiers encountered skeletons in ragged uniforms from the previous years fighting.

Peter1469
04-06-2013, 03:32 PM
Spotsylvania Courthouse should be close by too. That was an interesting and bloody campaign. Much like Shiloh and Chickamauga, the tangled undergrowth and wooded areas prevented artillery from playing much of a role in the Battle of the Wilderness.

Incidentally, that is the same ground over which the Battle of Chancellorsville had been fought the Summer before. Soldiers encountered skeletons in ragged uniforms from the previous years fighting.


I have driven through the area. It is a short drive, so long as there is no traffic. In fact, I am surrounded by Civil War battlefields.

Mister D
04-06-2013, 03:38 PM
I have driven through the area. It is a short drive, so long as there is no traffic. In fact, I am surrounded by Civil War battlefields.

Yeah, northern VA is full of them.

Newpublius
04-06-2013, 05:53 PM
Thanks.

I can see the reasoning behind considering it a Union victory. Still, disaster was only narrowly avoided. It's interesting to think of how the south would have fared in the west had Johnston survived. At the time, he inspired as much admiration as General Lee.

No matter the battle, it seems the Confederates would always be a division short. That's the nature of things, I suppose. Grant breaks the form shown in Northern VA up until then. The Union AoP would sally forth, get a bloody nose and fall back.

Imagine if McClellan had Grant's resolve. I mean, really if McClellan just stands his ground, the war could've ended in 1862. i truly don't see Lee's actions truly compelling a strategic Union withdrawal.

Shiloh, we see similar circumstances, the Confederates do well, but Grant saw there was no true need to withdraw....stand and fight....Grant saw that he had numbers and adjusted his strategies accordingly.

Mister D
04-06-2013, 05:58 PM
No matter the battle, it seems the Confederates would always be a division short. That's the nature of things, I suppose. Grant breaks the form shown in Northern VA up until then. The Union AoP would sally forth, get a bloody nose and fall back.

Imagine if McClellan had Grant's resolve. I mean, really if McClellan just stands his ground, the war could've ended in 1862. i truly don't see Lee's actions truly compelling a strategic Union withdrawal.

Shiloh, we see similar circumstances, the Confederates do well, but Grant saw there was no true need to withdraw....stand and fight....Grant saw that he had numbers and adjusted his strategies accordingly.

I have a higher opinion of McClellan than most. I tend to agree that a lack of resolve seemed to be his primary fault. Of course awful intelligence services exacerbated that trait. FRankly, the war could have been over after the Peninsula Campaign had McClellan Grant's resolve.

Bigred1cav
04-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Had the south any chance of winning we would read about the battles of Detroit, NYC, Cleveland. We don't.

Mister D
04-06-2013, 06:35 PM
Had the south any chance of winning we would read about the battles of Detroit, NYC, Cleveland. We don't.

I don't think the south really had a chance outside foreign intervention which wasn't likely either. On the other hand, we do hear about serious threats to D.C. Enough to panic Lincoln and everyone else in Washington.

Bigred1cav
04-06-2013, 06:39 PM
They may have been concerned and put a ring of defenses around DC. The south was outgunned outmanned and out produced same reasons all wars are won or lost.

Mister D
04-06-2013, 06:41 PM
They may have been concerned and put a ring of defenses around DC. The south was outgunned outmanned and out produced same reasons all wars are won or lost.

They were panicked, not concerned, several times during the war. Yes, the south was all of those things.

pjohns
04-06-2013, 08:13 PM
Had the south any chance of winning we would read about the battles of Detroit, NYC, Cleveland. We don't.

Actually, the Confederacy had two chances of acquiring victory. But neither hinged upon its military strategy.

The first was the possibility that a European power--perhaps England--would join the fight, on the side of the Confederacy. But that just did not happen. (Perhaps the so-called "Anaconda Strategy" had something to do with this.)

The second possibility was that the Union would simply tire of the war, due to all the bloodshed. And it appeared for awhile that this might indeed be the case; the so-called "Copperhead" movement in the North seemed to point in this direction.

But then-President Lincoln was determined to preserve the union.

And when Lincoln replaced McClellan with Grant, and began securing some victories on the battlefield, the sentiment in the North began to turn around.

Ransom
04-08-2013, 08:47 AM
Actually, there was a point based on military strategy whereupon your second possibility could have become a reality, pjohns. Should battlefield realities at Antietam or even Chancellorsville gone a tad differently, had the Northern Armies faced destruction....who knows.