PDA

View Full Version : What Commandments do you find hardest to follow?



Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 10:39 PM
King James Version


And God spake all these words, saying,
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.



1.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.



2.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.



3.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.



4.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.




5.
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.



6.
Thou shalt not kill.



7.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.



8.
Thou shalt not steal.



9.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.



10.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's





I find four and five hardest, as I was not brought up in any church at all, and wasn't particulary fond of all my parent's ways, to put it mildly.

BillyBob
04-13-2013, 10:45 PM
Keeping the Sabbath was for old timey Jews, not Christians.

Sytha
04-13-2013, 10:45 PM
Im good on 8 9 and 10. I will reserve my rights on 6.


as for 5.... i will actively fight that one on principal.

Chloe
04-13-2013, 10:47 PM
Keeping the Sabbath was for old timey Jews, not Christians.

Old timey Jews? Last I checked it's still valid today.

BillyBob
04-13-2013, 10:47 PM
Im good on 8 9 and 10. I will reserve my rights on 6.


as for 5.... i will actively fight that one on principal.

Jesus said to turn your back on your parents. So you're cool.

BillyBob
04-13-2013, 10:50 PM
Old timey Jews? Last I checked it's still valid today.

You are welcome to keep the Sabbath, but it's not necessary. However, I commend you for your adherence to your faith.

oceanloverOH
04-13-2013, 10:52 PM
#3 and #4. I'm working real hard not to say g-dammit any more. Shit is a much more effective word, and He doesn't care if I say that.

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 10:54 PM
Old timey Jews? Last I checked it's still valid today.


As a Christian, it doesn't hurt to try to observe it either.

I have not been to Church lately, was using fear of the flu, but really, I hate being the youngest guy there.

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 10:56 PM
#3 and #4. I'm working real hard not to say g-dammit any more. Shit is a much more effective word, and He doesn't care if I say that.


Yeah, the G- damn thing is a bad habit.

If habitual, and not intentional, maybe not so bad.

Not like calling on the Lord to bless your lottery ticket, or give your enemies diseases, etc.

Graven images is another one, strict Muslims take that to be any image, Christians I know take it to mean any graven idol that might be worshipped.

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 10:58 PM
#3 and #4. I'm working real hard not to say g-dammit any more. Shit is a much more effective word, and He doesn't care if I say that.
Actually Jesus does care about saying that.

He is quite clear, it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles us, not what goes in.

He was talking about profanity in general, gossip, etc.

BillyBob
04-13-2013, 11:01 PM
Actually Jesus does care about saying that.

He is quite clear, it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles us, not what goes in.

He was talking about profanity in general, gossip, etc.


Would you consider giving us a working list of words that Jesus would not approve of?

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 11:04 PM
Would you consider giving us a working list of words that Jesus would not approve of?


I think Jesus will judge us by the intent of what we say, not according to a list.

Not my place to say.

BillyBob
04-13-2013, 11:06 PM
I think Jesus will judge us by the intent of what we say, not according to a list.

Not my place to say.

That's actually good news! I love to say all kinds of crazy shit just to see how people react without ever meaning it! [I'll pray about it]

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 11:09 PM
That's actually good news! I love to say all kinds of crazy shit just to see how people react without ever meaning it! [I'll pray about it]


Point is, if the intent of the words proceeding out of the mouth is hateful, harmful or hurtful, doesn't really matter how you say them.

I wonder if a listing of Aramaic profanities tranlated exists?

Might be interesting.

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 11:11 PM
#3 and #4. I'm working real hard not to say g-dammit any more. Shit is a much more effective word, and He doesn't care if I say that.


Good news, I just spoke with Jesus about this, he says to tell ya, forget greenie, shit was everywhere back in his day, you couldn't escape it.


Hence all the attention to footwashing.

countryboy
04-13-2013, 11:21 PM
Good news, I just spoke with Jesus about this, he says to tell ya, forget greenie, shit was everywhere back in his day, you couldn't escape it.


Hence all the attention to footwashing.

You think that's funny?





























'cause.....I.....did.....kinda

Greenridgeman
04-13-2013, 11:25 PM
You think that's funny?
































'cause.....I.....did.....kinda




I left out the obigatory "lol" for the stiffnecked again.

TheDictator
04-13-2013, 11:49 PM
Old timey Jews? Last I checked it's still valid today.

The 10 commandments are not valid today for Christians, The New Testament does restate 9 of the commandments to be followed.

Dr. Who
04-14-2013, 12:11 AM
Not being religious, I don't attend Church, but as to the rest of the Commandments, I view them as common sense rules to live by.

countryboy
04-14-2013, 12:16 AM
The 10 commandments are not valid today for Christians, The New Testament does restate 9 of the commandments to be followed.
Explain please. :)

zelmo1234
04-14-2013, 04:33 AM
Old timey Jews? Last I checked it's still valid today.

Even for Christians,

Jesus said that I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it. He also said that the sabath was made for man, not man for the sabath, and that is where some get that they don't need to honor it!

zelmo1234
04-14-2013, 04:34 AM
As a Christian, it doesn't hurt to try to observe it either.

I have not been to Church lately, was using fear of the flu, but really, I hate being the youngest guy there.

Bring friends!

oceanloverOH
04-14-2013, 07:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYVqMj5i6k

zelmo1234
04-14-2013, 08:34 AM
That is one of the funniest stand up bits in history and I think he uses the word Asshole once!

I believe that God has a sense of humor and the practical jokes in Heaven will be fantaxtic!

Greenridgeman
04-14-2013, 09:55 AM
Bring friends!


I am a hermit.

All my friends died, or think they are dying.

I go weeks without seeing a human, so I should go to Church regularly again.

MY GF lives almost 900 miles away, I think I am moving soon.

Might get some new friends, but only friends out here now is critters.

BillyBob
04-14-2013, 10:54 AM
Even for Christians,

Jesus said that I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it. He also said that the sabath was made for man, not man for the sabath, and that is where some get that they don't need to honor it!


Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

roadmaster
04-14-2013, 10:56 AM
None really and had great parents but who of us is perfect?

oceanloverOH
04-14-2013, 12:10 PM
That is one of the funniest stand up bits in history and I think he uses the word Asshole once!

I believe that God has a sense of humor and the practical jokes in Heaven will be fantaxtic!

God ABSOLUTELY has a sense of humor.....He created us with a sense of humor, and you know He's sitting up in heaven laughing at the stupid stuff we do! Plus.....He made the platypus.....comical looking but venomous.

2345

Boris The Animal
04-14-2013, 12:32 PM
The Commandments were not so much as rules to be followed, but as a mirror to show us just how wicked and depraved we really are. If you recall, it was Jesus Himself who told that to even break one little letter of the Law, you break the entire law. Hence the need for Christ's perfect sacrifice on the cross at Calvary.

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 10:10 AM
Explain please. :)

The 10 commandments are part of the old law, the law of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ fulfilled the old law by living a sin free life. Jesus Christ put aside the old law and made a new law, the law of the New Testament.

Greenridgeman
04-15-2013, 10:23 AM
The 10 commandments are part of the old law, the law of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ fulfilled the old law by living a sin free life. Jesus Christ put aside the old law and made a new law, the law of the New Testament.

The Old Testament is useful for history, prophesy, addressing the basic human condition across time, and as a moral guide.

The New Testament relieves us of something that had been fulfilled, the tyrannical, micromanaging old law especially.

As a Christian, the New Testament is the one that matters, the Old Testament, a reference point.

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 10:52 AM
The Old Testament is useful for history, prophesy, addressing the basic human condition across time, and as a moral guide.

The New Testament relieves us of something that had been fulfilled, the tyrannical, micromanaging old law especially.

As a Christian, the New Testament is the one that matters, the Old Testament, a reference point.

Yes, we are no longer under the old law, The old testament is still God's Word, but we are now under Christ's law.

Mister D
04-15-2013, 10:53 AM
I believe it's called Convenant Theology.

nic34
04-15-2013, 10:58 AM
Not being religious, I don't attend Church, but as to the rest of the Commandments, I view them as common sense rules to live by.

Hence the need for a book to tell us what is moral is unnecessary....

truthmatters
04-15-2013, 11:02 AM
should a child who is sold into sex slavery honor their mother and father who sold them?

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 11:57 AM
should a child who is sold into sex slavery honor their mother and father who sold them?

Yes, This is not an award given to your parents. The command is to live your life in a way that honors God, and your family.

truthmatters
04-15-2013, 12:14 PM
so honoring people who profit from child rape is honoring god?

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 12:25 PM
so honoring people who profit from child rape is honoring god?

Not what I said, but God does love everyone including those who profit from child rape.

jillian
04-15-2013, 04:31 PM
Keeping the Sabbath was for old timey Jews, not Christians.

you mean old timey jews like Jesus?

Sytha
04-15-2013, 04:44 PM
The 10 commandments are part of the old law, the law of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ fulfilled the old law by living a sin free life. Jesus Christ put aside the old law and made a new law, the law of the New Testament.

i got news for you, part of the 10 commandments are part of our laws now.

Sytha
04-15-2013, 04:46 PM
Yes, This is not an award given to your parents. The command is to live your life in a way that honors God, and your family.

I take it you were never abused or molested by either of your parents or family members.

Greenridgeman
04-15-2013, 04:47 PM
i got news for you, part of the 10 commandments are part of our laws now.

Killing, stealing, adultery, and lying are almost universally condemned mentioned in most old codes.

I think Hammurabi predates Moses, not sure, don't go all google and quote me.

Sytha
04-15-2013, 04:47 PM
you mean old timey jews like Jesus?

sshh, leave the rabbi alone.

jillian
04-15-2013, 04:49 PM
sshh, leave the rabbi alone.

but he was a good rabbi.

i hate to be a pedant, but the 10 commandments never said 'thou shalt not kill', they said thou shalt not murder.

just saying. :D

Greenridgeman
04-15-2013, 04:49 PM
I take it you were never abused or molested by either of your parents or family members.



I'm old as dirt, I can tell you when abuse was ROUTINE. A baby boomer, I was raised among "the greatest generation". Before the VA was learning how to deal with PTSD, WWII vets were venting by gulping booze and kicking ass.

truthmatters
04-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Not what I said, but God does love everyone including those who profit from child rape.


and a child wouldbe sent to hell for not figuring out how to love parents who sold her into sex slavery?

Dr. Who
04-15-2013, 06:03 PM
Hence the need for a book to tell us what is moral is unnecessary....
For the most part.

BillyBob
04-15-2013, 06:20 PM
you mean old timey jews like Jesus?


What did Jesus say about the Sabbath?

BillyBob
04-15-2013, 06:21 PM
I take it you were never abused or molested by either of your parents or family members.

Are we to assume that you were?

Sytha
04-15-2013, 06:44 PM
Are we to assume that you were?

Read the string and you will understand the statement.

BillyBob
04-15-2013, 07:53 PM
Read the string and you will understand the statement.

Non answer.

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 09:04 PM
i got news for you, part of the 10 commandments are part of our laws now.

Yes, I said that in an earlier post, I quess you did not Read it.

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 09:09 PM
I take it you were never abused or molested by either of your parents or family members.

Not the point, No one should let what their parents sin rule their life.

BillyBob
04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
Not the point, No one should let what their parents sin rule their life.

That's true, but in this victim-driven society in which we live, everyone is looking for an excuse to explain their shortcomings. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept to them.

zelmo1234
04-15-2013, 09:19 PM
and a child wouldbe sent to hell for not figuring out how to love parents who sold her into sex slavery?

So your an idiot on religion too? Well at least you are consistant!

TheDictator
04-15-2013, 09:23 PM
and a child wouldbe sent to hell for not figuring out how to love parents who sold her into sex slavery?

I did not say that, but Jesus Christ did say something about forgivness.

Sytha
04-15-2013, 10:10 PM
Not the point, No one should let what their parents sin rule their life.

It is a huge point. Why should any child feel the need to "honor" their parents if those parents did horrible things to them.

Sytha
04-15-2013, 10:11 PM
That's true, but in this victim-driven society in which we live, everyone is looking for an excuse to explain their shortcomings. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept to them.

Why does it have to be about being a victim?

Why should a child have to honor a parent who is a bad or evil person?

BillyBob
04-15-2013, 10:14 PM
Why does it have to be about being a victim?

Why should a child have to honor a parent who is a bad or evil person?

I have no problem with a child killing his evil parents. Better he does it while he's still a minor, he'll have a better chance of getting away with it.

Mister D
04-16-2013, 12:39 AM
This is an appeal to extremes. The commandment is about submitting to the social order.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 07:46 AM
This is an appeal to extremes. The commandment is about submitting to the social order.



Submitting to the social order is soooo last century, ya repressive old fart.

Get with the times, organize a flash mob, video your buddies rolling a homeless guy, get out, have some damned fun dude.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:38 AM
It is a huge point. Why should any child feel the need to "honor" their parents if those parents did horrible things to them.

The point is to do what God wants.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:44 AM
Why does it have to be about being a victim?

Why should a child have to honor a parent who is a bad or evil person?

In the eyes of God we all are evil, and are in need of forgivenesss, You can't receive forgiveness unless you give forgiveness.

Chris
04-16-2013, 08:46 AM
The point is to do what God wants.

What you believe God wants.


As for the topic question, the first four are difficult, because I don't know what God is and no one can tell me. Some say have faith, but I don't know what that is either, and no one can tell me. As for the rest, those are fairly commonsensical and universal and not uniquely Judaic.

As to something like Sytha's


It is a huge point. Why should any child feel the need to "honor" their parents if those parents did horrible things to them.

It's not a matter of following what's commanded, morality is a matter of what can be justified. Certainly it is justified to not obey or honor parents who do terrible things just as it justified to kill someone in self-defense.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:46 AM
I have no problem with a child killing his evil parents. Better he does it while he's still a minor, he'll have a better chance of getting away with it.

This would be an act of Evil.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 08:49 AM
What you believe God wants.


As for the topic question, the first four are difficult, because I don't know what God is and no one can tell me. Some say have faith, but I don't know what that is either, and no one can tell me. As for the rest, those are fairly commonsensical and universal and not uniquely Judaic.

As to something like Sytha's



It's not a matter of following what's commanded, morality is a matter of what can be justified. Certainly it is justified to not obey or honor parents who do terrible things just as it justified to kill someone in self-defense.



You wrote:" I don't know what God is and no one can tell me."

To which I might add, many have tried to teach you, nobody can tell you, telling is not teaching.

I advise:

"Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given".

truthmatters
04-16-2013, 08:49 AM
The point is to do what God wants.


there in lies the rub

god is a myth

Chris
04-16-2013, 08:51 AM
"Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given".

Been seeking and asking all my life. Not getting answers.

truthmatters
04-16-2013, 08:53 AM
organized religion tells you they heard from god and he said we all need to do the churchs bidding.


how anyone buys that line is beyond me

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:54 AM
What you believe God wants.




No, What God said in his word.

Chris
04-16-2013, 08:55 AM
No, What God said in his word.

What you believe He said.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:55 AM
there in lies the rub

god is a myth

yes god is, but God is not.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:58 AM
organized religion tells you they heard from god and he said we all need to do the churchs bidding.


how anyone buys that line is beyond me

Your hate for religion and religious people does not impress much.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 09:00 AM
What you believe He said.

Who was the first President of the USA?

Chloe
04-16-2013, 09:02 AM
In the eyes of God we all are evil, and are in need of forgivenesss, You can't receive forgiveness unless you give forgiveness.

In my opinion we are all born innocent and good and aren't being judged by the actions of previous people. I agree that asking for forgiveness from people that you have personally wronged is important and good, but I don't agree that I need to be forgiven for things that I never did or contributed to in any way.

truthmatters
04-16-2013, 09:04 AM
how horrible is it to take an innocent child and tell them they are burdened with being born evil?


the need for control is great amoung the peopel who USE other people through organized religion.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 09:05 AM
In my opinion we are all born innocent and good and aren't being judged by the actions of previous people. I agree that asking for forgiveness from people that you have personally wronged is important and good, but I don't agree that I need to be forgiven for things that I never did or contributed to in any way.

That is not what I'm saying.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 09:08 AM
how horrible is it to take an innocent child and tell them they are burdened with being born evil?


the need for control is great amoung the peopel who USE other people through organized religion.


Well, My religion says I'm not born with evil, but will do evil, or have done evil.

Chloe
04-16-2013, 09:10 AM
Well, My religion says I'm not born with evil, but will do evil, or have done evil.

Aren't baptisms supposed to get rid of sin that a baby is born with?

spunkloaf
04-16-2013, 09:17 AM
3. I say Jesus Christ and God Dammit alot.

4. I don't go to church.

10. I covet my neighbor's ass.

Chloe
04-16-2013, 09:17 AM
That is not what I'm saying.

I'm sorry but that's what it sounded like to me, or at least it felt implied. If in your opinion God sees us all as evil and in need of forgiveness than that would mean a new born baby is born with sin or evil and is in need of forgiveness right? I'm just asking, not telling.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 09:24 AM
Been seeking and asking all my life. Not getting answers.


Townshend said it for ya: " I asked Bob Dylan, I asked the Beatle's, I asked Timothy Leary, but he could not help me either".


Do this, one time, sincerely:

Start with the New Testament, get comfortable, and try to open your heart and mind to it, and ask for guidance.

Read carefully until you get sleepy, reflect a few minutes, think about what you read that night at least one time during the day.

Repeat nightly until you reach Revelation.

If you do this and the Spirit fails to at least tap you on the shoulder, get back with me.

Nobody ever does though, so it must work.

Common
04-16-2013, 09:28 AM
I would bet that universally that hardest commandment to keep is You shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
Sexual Attraction is one of the strongest emotions and id bet thats the one thats broken the most. Now you may not "ACT" on that attraction and thank god most men do not but you think it and thats coveting your neighbors wife and the wife down the street and at the mall.

Chris
04-16-2013, 09:28 AM
Who was the first President of the USA?

We know by historical record this was John Hanson. We know by historical record that Jesus lived. Whether one was or wasn't God is however a matter of belief, of faith.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 09:29 AM
Aren't baptisms supposed to get rid of sin that a baby is born with?

Baptist, who started the practice( I am a successionist Baptist, believe Baptism in our Church directly comes from John) believe this about Baptism: it will get you wet.

It is not needed for Salvation, it will not guarantee Salvation, it is a personal testimony to entering into a relationship with Christ, and when performed on a child that does not begin to comprehend, it is meaningless.

I think Catholics believe quite differently.

I was Christened Catholic, raised by pagans.

I have not been baptised again because upon being an adult, and reflecting on the significance of that baptism, I know it greatly pleased my grandmother, I agree with it now, so why repeat it?

Chris
04-16-2013, 09:30 AM
Townshend said it for ya: " I asked Bob Dylan, I asked the Beatle's, I asked Timothy Leary, but he could not help me either".


Do this, one time, sincerely:

Start with the New Testament, get comfortable, and try to open your heart and mind to it, and ask for guidance.

Read carefully until you get sleepy, reflect a few minutes, think about what you read that night at least one time during the day.

Repeat nightly until you reach Revelation.

If you do this and the Spirit fails to at least tap you on the shoulder, get back with me.

Nobody ever does though, so it must work.

I've done that, nothing. Perhaps it's not in the book but what's inside you that you brung to the book.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 09:31 AM
I would bet that universally that hardest commandment to keep is You shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
Sexual Attraction is one of the strongest emotions and id bet thats the one thats broken the most. Now you may not "ACT" on that attraction and thank god most men do not but you think it and thats coveting your neighbors wife and the wife down the street and at the mall.


I think covet is a bit deeper than taking a look and wishing you could get some.

To covet, I think you have to stew a bit, feel she really ought to be yours, have hateful thoughts of wanting to take something.

Otherwise, there ain't no hope on that front.

Mister D
04-16-2013, 09:31 AM
Worked for me and continues to. Transformed my life, actually.

truthmatters
04-16-2013, 09:32 AM
3. I say Jesus Christ and God Dammit alot.

4. I don't go to church.

10. I covet my neighbor's ass.



hey leave that donkey alone

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 09:33 AM
I've done that, nothing. Perhaps it's not in the book but what's inside you that you brung to the book.


Well, do it again, with a more open mind. You know how it is with you once an idea is stuck in your head.

Try again, get back, if you still feel the same way, maybe what you need is an exorcist.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 09:33 AM
Worked for me and continues to. Transformed my life, actually.


Who are you posting to?

Mister D
04-16-2013, 09:34 AM
I think covet is a bit deeper than taking a look and wishing you could get some.

To covet, I think you have to stew a bit, feel she really ought to be yours, have hateful thoughts of wanting to take something.

Otherwise, there ain't no hope on that front.

Yeah, I agree. I think covetousness entails indulging your desire or lettign it reign in your heart.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 09:38 AM
We know by historical record this was John Hanson. We know by historical record that Jesus lived. Whether one was or wasn't God is however a matter of belief, of faith.

That same historical record recorded that he was God, so using the same logic we can only believe that John Hanson was president of the first Congress.

spunkloaf
04-16-2013, 09:38 AM
hey leave that donkey alone

laughter laughter

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 09:41 AM
Yeah, I agree. I think covetousness entails indulging your desire or lettign it reign in your heart.



Yes, has to fester in your heart, I think.

Just admiring God's work and reacting to pheromones isn't a sin, it's a pleasant reminder your junk still works.

truthmatters
04-16-2013, 09:48 AM
laughter laughter

your nieghbor can say yes or no but the donkey has no interests in your planed rectal exam.


You may get a kick out of it though

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 09:50 AM
I'm sorry but that's what it sounded like to me, or at least it felt implied. If in your opinion God sees us all as evil and in need of forgiveness than that would mean a new born baby is born with sin or evil and is in need of forgiveness right? I'm just asking, not telling.

I'm not Catholic, we are not born with sin, but are born with the nature to sin. Children who do not know right from wrong can not do evil, and are not in need of God's forgiveness.

jillian
04-16-2013, 10:26 AM
We know by historical record this was John Hanson. We know by historical record that Jesus lived. Whether one was or wasn't God is however a matter of belief, of faith.

his name sure wasn't "jesus"

BillyBob
04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
This would be an act of Evil.

An eye for an eye.

BillyBob
04-16-2013, 10:33 AM
organized religion tells you they heard from god and he said we all need to do the churchs bidding.


how anyone buys that line is beyond me

What 'church' would that be? I've been to a lot of them and I never heard that from a single one of them. Of course, I've never been to a mosque, so.....

jillian
04-16-2013, 10:33 AM
In the eyes of God we all are evil, and are in need of forgivenesss, You can't receive forgiveness unless you give forgiveness.

i'm so glad i don't believe what you do. no G-d I would believe in would think we are "all evil". man can do good works. man can protect his fellow man. man can nurture. man can do great things.


For this reason man was created alone, to teach you that whoever destroys a single soul, he is guilty as though he had destroyed a complete world; and whoever preserves a single soul, it is as though he had preserved a whole world.

Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 37a

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 10:41 AM
i'm so glad i don't believe what you do. no G-d I would believe in would think we are "all evil". man can do good works. man can protect his fellow man. man can nurture. man can do great things.

Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 37a

Your right we do not believe in the same God, I guess one day we will see Who the real God is.

jillian
04-16-2013, 10:41 AM
Your right we do not believe in the same God, I guess one day we will see Who the real God is.

it's the same G-d. there's only one.

it's man's interpretation that differs.

Chris
04-16-2013, 10:49 AM
Well, do it again, with a more open mind. You know how it is with you once an idea is stuck in your head.

Try again, get back, if you still feel the same way, maybe what you need is an exorcist.

I have an open mind, it's called doubt.

Common
04-16-2013, 10:51 AM
I think covet is a bit deeper than taking a look and wishing you could get some.

To covet, I think you have to stew a bit, feel she really ought to be yours, have hateful thoughts of wanting to take something.

Otherwise, there ain't no hope on that front.

Well to be honest I dont if it means that or not.

Common
04-16-2013, 10:53 AM
it's the same G-d. there's only one.

it's man's interpretation that differs.

Well Jillian I was agreeing with you until I realized that christians believe in two gods. God and Jesus the son of God. Thats where they differ from Jews and Muslims. To christians Jesus is the savior his father is God.

Chris
04-16-2013, 10:53 AM
That same historical record recorded that he was God, so using the same logic we can only believe that John Hanson was president of the first Congress.

Yes, historical records are replete with beliefs about God, I don't doubt those beliefs exist just as I don't doubt your belief exists.

jillian
04-16-2013, 10:54 AM
Well Jillian I was agreeing with you until I realized that christians believe in two gods. God and Jesus the son of God. Thats where they differ from Jews and Muslims. To christians Jesus is the savior his father is God.

mmm... you'd have to ask one of the christians, but my understanding is that christians see G-d and Jesus as different aspects of the same entity.

jillian
04-16-2013, 10:55 AM
Muslims worship Satan [Allah]. That is certainly not the God of the Jews or Christians.

no. muslims do not worship satan.

you disagree with their belief system.

i disagree with their belief system. but that does not mean they aren't monotheistic.

as i said... there is one G-d... it's how man messes it up that's the problem.

BillyBob
04-16-2013, 10:57 AM
no. muslims do not worship satan.

Yes, they do. Of course, they'll never admit it. And when someone points it out to them the muslims try to murder him.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 12:12 PM
it's the same G-d. there's only one.

it's man's interpretation that differs.


No, There is one True God of the Bible and then there are man made gods like yours.

jillian
04-16-2013, 12:15 PM
No, There is one True God of the Bible and then there are man made gods like yours.

see, and from my perspective... my religion pre-dated yours by thousands of years; the guy you claim is the messiah was of that same ancient religion; your guy doesn't fulfill the prophesies and none of the changes that were supposed to occur after the coming of the messiah have occurred. and everything else is made up.

see how that works?

the difference is, i understand that it's about belief. you have this retarded idea that your belief is correct and my belief is wrong... and then feel the need to say it.

me? i don't care what you believe. but my religion certainly isn't "made up" in the way that you imply. nor is yours "factual" in the way you imply.

it's all about "faith"... nothing more, nothing less.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 12:16 PM
Well Jillian I was agreeing with you until I realized that christians believe in two gods. God and Jesus the son of God. Thats where they differ from Jews and Muslims. To christians Jesus is the savior his father is God.

No, Christians believe in One God.

Chloe
04-16-2013, 12:29 PM
No, There is one True God of the Bible and then there are man made gods like yours.

Man made?

jillian
04-16-2013, 12:34 PM
Man made?

someone needs to explain to him that everyone believes their own beliefs are correct...

or they wouldn't believe them.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 12:36 PM
see, and from my perspective... my religion pre-dated yours by thousands of years; the guy you claim is the messiah was of that same ancient religion; your guy doesn't fulfill the prophesies and none of the changes that were supposed to occur after the coming of the messiah have occurred. and everything else is made up.

see how that works?

the difference is, i understand that it's about belief. you have this retarded idea that your belief is correct and my belief is wrong... and then feel the need to say it.

me? i don't care what you believe. but my religion certainly isn't "made up" in the way that you imply. nor is yours "factual" in the way you imply.

it's all about "faith"... nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, calling people retarded is really taking the High moral road. Calling people names is very immature.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 12:40 PM
someone needs to explain to him that everyone believes their own beliefs are correct...

or they wouldn't believe them.

I know that, I have respect for everyone's right to believe what ever they want. I also have the right to say they are wrong and why I believe so.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 01:02 PM
mmm... you'd have to ask one of the christians, but my understanding is that christians see G-d and Jesus as different aspects of the same entity.


It is called the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

It's way too deep for me, I have met the Holy Ghost, I have not met Jesus or God, but I am sure they will explain the Trinity on a need to know basis.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 01:05 PM
Well to be honest I dont if it means that or not.


If a passing glance and a mental "damn that's hot" is coveting, I am doomed.


And I am an all night, do right man, with an all night, do right woman.

Mister D
04-16-2013, 01:07 PM
If a passing glance and a mental "damn that's hot" is coveting, I am doomed.


And I am an all night, do right man, with an all night, do right woman.

We all are.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 01:13 PM
We all are.


Remember Obama drooling at the French President's wife's lucious ass?

Would you have noticed what Obama was doing if you had been there?

Hell no, I'd have been savoring every second, just like Obama.

"You can look but you better not touch."

Coasters maybe????

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 01:31 PM
Sorry, guys but Lust is a sin.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 01:38 PM
Sorry, guys but Lust is a sin.


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

A brief, hormonally influenced look and that's all is no sin anyway.

Nobody gets out of this world sin free anyway, the thing is, repent of the sins you already did, the past is the past, and then, don't intentionally sin.

What pops into your head is not intentional.

You are describing what leads to "Catholic Guilt"?

Mister D
04-16-2013, 01:38 PM
Sorry, guys but Lust is a sin.

If by lust you mean a biological attraction to a female then you're damned too, Dic.

Mister D
04-16-2013, 01:39 PM
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

A brief, hormonally influenced look and that's all is no sin anyway.

Nobody gets out of this world sin free anyway, the thing is, repent of the sins you already did, the past is the past, and then, don't intentionally sin.

What pops into your head is not intentional.

You are describing what leads to "Catholic Guilt"?

I grew up Catholic and still admire Catholic pomp and ceremony. I've never experienced this guilt I hear so much about.

jillian
04-16-2013, 01:41 PM
I know that, I have respect for everyone's right to believe what ever they want. I also have the right to say they are wrong and why I believe so.

but how do you figure my beliefs are "made up" when they're the same beliefs the guy you think was the messiah had. not to mention that they predated your religion by thousands of years... and form the basis of the book you read.

btw, assuming he existed and wasn't a composite or allegorical figure, his name was yeshua ben yosef. there wasn't a jew born who had a name like jesus christ.

Alif Qadr
04-16-2013, 01:44 PM
no. muslims do not worship satan.

you disagree with their belief system.

i disagree with their belief system. but that does not mean they aren't monotheistic.

as i said... there is one G-d... it's how man messes it up that's the problem.

There has always been more than one ilah, it is which ilah you have as your guidepost. The fact of there being more than one ilah is shown in Taurat, Injil and Al-Khitaab which is why Az Azim says that if you are with Him, he is the only Ilah but if you choose to go with the other ilah, that is completely up to you and none is to blame but yourself.

Alif Qadr
04-16-2013, 01:59 PM
Keeping the Sabbath was for old timey Jews, not Christians.

wrong, keeping the Sabbath is for everyone, be they the People of Jacob or Bani Isra'il The Sabbath is for everyone. On this day, some will be joyful and others will be Hazeen, as it is. These days, some people are sa'iid Masroor, these are those who work towards Jannah and some will be Hazeen, these are those who have built Jahannam and in Ladthaa they dwell becasue of what their hands have so willfully fashioned. In the end, we all get what we desire and justly deserve.

Greenridgeman
04-16-2013, 01:59 PM
I grew up Catholic and still admire Catholic pomp and ceremony. I've never experienced this guilt I hear so much about.


Protestant/Catholic rift(damned Baptists) resulted in us never going to church at all, except maybe at Easter.

We would go all the way to my grandmother's(the Catholic one) every week on Sunday, while my dad was off hunting or fishing or whatever, but we could not go to church with them because my dad was harrassed by his Baptist sisters and basically hostile to religion(until he started knowing he was about to die).

Even if I had grown up to be an atheist, I still feel the exclusion of basic religious training was a severe educational handicap to be overcome when reading Western literature.

The basically pagan, party attitude I grew up around, and under, is why the honor thy parents thing is hardest for me.

I well could have used some guidance as a youth, and, as a parent.

Oh well, I guess we all learn from our parent's misakes.

My boys love me, I am going have dinner with them tonight.

Outta here for now.

Alif Qadr
04-16-2013, 02:02 PM
If by lust you mean a biological attraction to a female then you're damned too, Dic.

We can control lust and all other emotional responses. It is natural for a man to be physically attracted to a woman, I just prefer to be attracted to her mind. The body is finite or limited but the mind has the potential to be limitless and that is where and how the attraction begins and lasts for me.

Mister D
04-16-2013, 02:13 PM
We can control lust and all other emotional responses. It is natural for a man to be physically attracted to a woman, I just prefer to be attracted to her mind. The body is finite or limited but the mind has the potential to be limitless and that is where and how the attraction begins and lasts for me.

Well spoken, Alif. I'm just saying that a momentary physical attraction is unavoidable much of the time. That is, it's unconscious. That said, I have seen and met many men who allow their basest instincts to dominate them.

An intellectual is someone who has found something more interesting than sex.

Aldous Huxley

BillyBob
04-16-2013, 02:14 PM
someone needs to explain to him that everyone believes their own beliefs are correct...

or they wouldn't believe them.

That is not true, nor is it even logical.

Are you a liberal?

spunkloaf
04-16-2013, 02:22 PM
Your right we do not believe in the same God, I guess one day we will see Who the real God is.

What a silly way to look at religion.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 02:40 PM
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

A brief, hormonally influenced look and that's all is no sin anyway.

Nobody gets out of this world sin free anyway, the thing is, repent of the sins you already did, the past is the past, and then, don't intentionally sin.

What pops into your head is not intentional.

You are describing what leads to "Catholic Guilt"?

I do not know about catholic guilt, I'm not catholic, but your right repent, be washed by the Blood of Christ, and be free of sin.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 02:42 PM
If by lust you mean a biological attraction to a female then you're damned too, Dic.

Sinning and being damned by sin are two deferent things.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 02:54 PM
but how do you figure my beliefs are "made up" when they're the same beliefs the guy you think was the messiah had. not to mention that they predated your religion by thousands of years... and form the basis of the book you read.

btw, assuming he existed and wasn't a composite or allegorical figure, his name was yeshua ben yosef. there wasn't a jew born who had a name like jesus christ.

If your talking about Judaism, I never said a word on about it. I never said that Judaism was made up. You misunderstood what I said. What I was talking about was people who make a god based only on what they want to believe about that god and not on any text or the Bible ( Old or New Testament ).

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 02:58 PM
wrong, keeping the Sabbath is for everyone, be they the People of Jacob or Bani Isra'il The Sabbath is for everyone. On this day, some will be joyful and others will be Hazeen, as it is. These days, some people are sa'iid Masroor, these are those who work towards Jannah and some will be Hazeen, these are those who have built Jahannam and in Ladthaa they dwell becasue of what their hands have so willfully fashioned. In the end, we all get what we desire and justly deserve.

The Sabbath may be for non-Christian religions but not for Christians.

jillian
04-16-2013, 06:59 PM
Yes, calling people retarded is really taking the High moral road. Calling people names is very immature.

did i call a person retarded or did i say the idea was retarded?

you're welcome

but i like the faux rage.

perhaps you should save it for calling someone's religion "made up". til then, i really can't be bothered caring what you think.

jillian
04-16-2013, 07:00 PM
That is not true, nor is it even logical.

Are you a liberal?

of course it's true.'

logic has zero to do with religion.

Chloe
04-16-2013, 07:13 PM
If your talking about Judaism, I never said a word on about it. I never said that Judaism was made up. You misunderstood what I said. What I was talking about was people who make a god based only on what they want to believe about that god and not on any text or the Bible ( Old or New Testament ).

Out of curiosity have you ever opened or read the Torah or the entire Tanakh? Not your king james bible though since the "old" testament is not really my bible, also since it implies my faith is outdated but that's another argument. Anyway it is loaded with commentary from different rabbis over the centuries all discussing and interpreting the words and meanings for Jews, like myself, to have a better understanding of what is being said, what it means, and how it translates to my life. It's done because you can't take every word so literally because its impossible to truly know the original intent of many of the things in the bible. It's great since if I don't understand something I can read commentary from different important rabbis and people throughout history to get a better and more educated understanding of what I am reading...instead of assuming or guessing.

Dr. Who
04-16-2013, 07:13 PM
Muslims worship Satan [Allah]. That is certainly not the God of the Jews or Christians.
For your edification BillyBob: http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah2.htm

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 07:48 PM
of course it's true.'

logic has zero to do with religion.

But logic has everything to do with God.

Chris
04-16-2013, 07:53 PM
logic has zero to do with religion.

Disagree. While logic and reason have little to do with finding faith, once found what follows in terms of how you live your life is likely very reasonable and logical.

TheDictator
04-16-2013, 08:03 PM
Out of curiosity have you ever opened or read the Torah or the entire Tanakh? Not your king james bible though since the "old" testament is not really my bible, also since it implies my faith is outdated but that's another argument. Anyway it is loaded with commentary from different rabbis over the centuries all discussing and interpreting the words and meanings for Jews, like myself, to have a better understanding of what is being said, what it means, and how it translates to my life. It's done because you can't take every word so literally because its impossible to truly know the original intent of many of the things in the bible. It's great since if I don't understand something I can read commentary from different important rabbis and people throughout history to get a better and more educated understanding of what I am reading...instead of assuming or guessing.

Yes, I have read the Torah in Hebrew. I have not read the Tanakh, maybe one day I will. I have read all of the Old Testament many times. I read one passage from the Old and New Testament to my children every day. Thank you for your comments, I enjoyed reading them.

Chris
04-16-2013, 08:26 PM
Out of curiosity have you ever opened or read the Torah or the entire Tanakh? Not your king james bible though since the "old" testament is not really my bible, also since it implies my faith is outdated but that's another argument. Anyway it is loaded with commentary from different rabbis over the centuries all discussing and interpreting the words and meanings for Jews, like myself, to have a better understanding of what is being said, what it means, and how it translates to my life. It's done because you can't take every word so literally because its impossible to truly know the original intent of many of the things in the bible. It's great since if I don't understand something I can read commentary from different important rabbis and people throughout history to get a better and more educated understanding of what I am reading...instead of assuming or guessing.

If I might, while I don't read in the original Hebrew, I do own and read The Stone Edition Tanach and the JPS The Jewish Study Bible/Tanach just for the purposes you state, the accompanying commentary. I think you're exactly right.

I also own 4 or 5 "Christian" Bibles, preferring the King James for its contribution to English Literature, but only to read the New Testament. Among the 4 or 5 is the Jefferson Bible as well.

BillyBob
04-16-2013, 09:07 PM
of course it's true.'

Go back and read your post, it's ridiculous. Here, I'll repost it for you:


someone needs to explain to him that everyone believes their own beliefs are correct...

or they wouldn't believe them.


logic has zero to do with religion.

Maybe not yours.....

roadmaster
04-17-2013, 12:12 AM
I'm sorry but that's what it sounded like to me, or at least it felt implied. If in your opinion God sees us all as evil and in need of forgiveness than that would mean a new born baby is born with sin or evil and is in need of forgiveness right? I'm just asking, not telling. God extends His grace automatically to babies and young children. No baptism necessary until they reach a certain age when they can refuse Him or is accountable. Many choose this not to wash away the child's sin but to ask God for guidance and to give Him back to the Master because they see them as a gift from God and thanking Him for giving them such a precious gift to guild this child and be their earthly parents.

Chris
04-17-2013, 08:21 AM
God extends His grace automatically to babies and young children. No baptism necessary until they reach a certain age when they can refuse Him or is accountable. Many choose this not to wash away the child's sin but to ask God for guidance and to give Him back to the Master because they see them as a gift from God and thanking Him for giving them such a precious gift to guild this child and be their earthly parents.

If this is too far off topic, ignore, but it is my understanding that what you say is true not of atheists in general but only apostates, that is, as you say "they [who] refuse Him". Correct?

TheDictator
04-17-2013, 08:59 AM
If this is too far off topic, ignore, but it is my understanding that what you say is true not of atheists in general but only apostates, that is, as you say "they [who] refuse Him". Correct?

A non-believer is not an apostate. An apostate is a believer who teaches or believes falsehood.

Chris
04-17-2013, 09:07 AM
A non-believer is not an apostate. An apostate is a believer who teaches or believes falsehood.

Right, or an apostate is one who accepts then later rejects faith.

Hey, we agree on something!

TheDictator
04-17-2013, 09:17 AM
Right, or an apostate is one who accepts then later rejects faith.

Hey, we agree on something!

We have agreed on other things, in some other post. I see your point most of the time, we just disagree a lot.

sky dancer
09-29-2013, 11:08 AM
Right speech.