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Mister D
07-03-2011, 12:29 PM
Snip

The European Union is unwinding for two very simple reasons. First, it is not a constitutional state, but a loose conglomeration of nations run by elites who are not responsible to the people. For decades the undemocratic nature of rule from Brussels was masked by politically correct edicts on everything from global warming to anti-Americanism. But as the money runs out, the elites’ fraud becomes impossible to hide.


Snip

California elites swear that a multimillion-person community of illegal aliens has nothing to do with our near-bottom ranking in public-school math and science scores, but privately even the most die-hard unionist teachers confess that it does. When Los Angeles has more resident Mexican nationals than do most cities in Mexico, and when the liberal paradigm of the salad bowl in lieu of the melting pot is into its fifth decade, then it is logical, not aberrant, that tens of thousands in the Rose Bowl would not merely cheer a Mexican soccer team over a home-team American one (understandable, though regrettable, garden-variety ethnic chauvinism), but trump that by booing even the mention of the United States.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/270892/liberal-frankensteins-victor-davis-hanson

MMC
07-03-2011, 01:31 PM
the term liberal elite is a political phrase to describe affluent politcally liberal leaning people. It is commonly used with the pejorative implication that the people who claim to support the rights of the working class, are themselves members of the upper class, or upper-middle class and are therefore out of touch with the real needs of the people they claim to support and protect.
The label is essentially a rhetorical device with flexible meaning depending on where in the English speaking world it is used. As a polemical term it has been used to refer to political positions as diverse as secularism, environmentalism, feminism, and other positions associated with the left.
The originating usage in the United States is applied with various changes to other English speaking countries and by extension to left-leaning elites in other countries.

I think they were high one day, someone said something about being a Spectre and the only thing that rang inside their ears was something about being a Spectacle.

Conley
07-03-2011, 01:41 PM
I think the soccer example is unnecessary, as a lot of immigrant families would still cheer for the "motherland", just like Italian-Americans, Asians, etc. The school example is dead on and really a much more important factor.

As far as the EU unraveling, it may or may not be the case but those rich liberal elites will continue to run things regardless of whether it fractures or not. I don't see any end to the EU immigration / politically correct policy until their cities are overrun with looters and rioters. They are moving closer to that every day. The commoners recognize what is happening but not the elites in their towers...

Mister D
07-03-2011, 02:39 PM
I think the soccer example is unnecessary, as a lot of immigrant families would still cheer for the "motherland", just like Italian-Americans, Asians, etc. The school example is dead on and really a much more important factor.

As far as the EU unraveling, it may or may not be the case but those rich liberal elites will continue to run things regardless of whether it fractures or not. I don't see any end to the EU immigration / politically correct policy until their cities are overrun with looters and rioters. They are moving closer to that every day. The commoners recognize what is happening but not the elites in their towers...


True Americans don't even watch soccer. ;) ;D

Nationalist movements and parties have made a lot of headway in Europe. That's what the elites fear the most just like the US elites fear populism and nativism (no negative connotations meant). I think there will be a major shift in the trajectory of western politics at some point in the near future. Obviously, I can't say that for sure but the consistently poor economic news may be what jolts the middle classes out of their materialist torpor.

Conley
07-03-2011, 03:27 PM
Good points all, especially about soccer ;D

I knew nationalist movements had made progress, but I was under the assumption that was more of a movement of the people and those in charge were ignoring them for the most part, just as they have ignored the problems with immigration and social services. Perhaps not. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Maybe it's just because I agree with you 100%, but this part is especially well put ;D




Obviously, I can't say that for sure but the consistently poor economic news may be what jolts the middle classes out of their materialist torpor.



I certainly hope people wake up soon.

Mister D
07-03-2011, 05:30 PM
I used to try to avoid thinking this way because I feel guilty hoping for tough times but the middle class just seems preoccupied with materialist concerns. They're (perhaps I should say we since I'm no better) self-absorbed and behave as if maintaining the good life is all that matters. I can't imagine most American taxpayers actually acquiescing in the fundamental changes our system may need because they won't allow their goodies to be taken away from them. They've been bought off by an elite that, when it comes down to it, doesn't have their interests at heart but those of the marketplace. The whole system may have to come to the verge of collapse before they get it.

Conley
07-03-2011, 05:38 PM
I used to try to avoid thinking this way because I feel guilty hoping for tough times but the middle class just seems preoccupied with materialist concerns. They're (perhaps I should say we since I'm no better) self-absorbed and behave as if maintaining the good life is all that matters. I can't imagine most American taxpayers actually acquiescing in the fundamental changes our system may need because they won't allow their goodies to be taken away from them. They've been bought off by an elite that, when it comes down to it, doesn't have their interests at heart but those of the marketplace. The whole system may have to come to the verge of collapse before they get it.


Yes. I actually am not hoping for tough times, I wish things would get better for everyone, but that's not realistic. I think you are dead on that the middle class is drowning in consumerism and people would rather watch Nancy Grace than pay attention to what is really happening in this country. I find it stunning how the middle class has just accepted that both parents have to work just to make ends meet, whereas in prior generations that was a rarity. That is leading to further breakdown in the family unit, which is really a fundamental part of our society. Kids need their parents, and the parents need to take responsibility for their offspring. These days the parents blame the teachers, the school, the cops, etc...part of the overriding issue in this country of not taking personal responsibility. How's that for a ramble? ;D

Mister D
07-03-2011, 05:42 PM
There is nothing there I disagree with. :)

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 11:04 AM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 11:09 AM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


Yeah, you're a sad guy, Spunk. :'(

Often it just takes age. ;)

MMC
07-04-2011, 11:12 AM
Exactly D.....when we are all young. We are willing to risk more take more chances . As we get older we become more conservative. Time, money, and energy. All Apply!

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 11:13 AM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


Yeah, you're a sad guy, Spunk. :'(

Often it just takes age. ;)


You're saying when I get older I'm going to sit on a computer and bitch about liberals all day, seeing as it is the only way for the world to get better?

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 11:16 AM
Exactly D.....when we are all young. We are willing to risk more take more chances . As we get older we become more conservative. Time, money, and energy. All Apply!


What does this have to do with liberal ideals? And why are you trying to liken age with wisdom with conservatism? I know plenty of old, wise liberals.

This is exactly how conservatives advertise themselves and try to separate themselves from liberals. Want to talk about elitism?

Mister D
07-04-2011, 11:16 AM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


Yeah, you're a sad guy, Spunk. :'(

Often it just takes age. ;)


You're saying when I get older I'm going to sit on a computer and bitch about liberals all day, seeing as it is the only way for the world to get better?


Nope. I'm just saying that as people mature and have real world responsibilities they become more conservative over time. Besides, since I've known you you've sitting at the computer bitching incoherently.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 11:17 AM
Exactly D.....when we are all young. We are willing to risk more take more chances . As we get older we become more conservative. Time, money, and energy. All Apply!


What does this have to do with liberal ideals? And why are you trying to liken age with wisdom with conservatism? I know plenty of old, wise liberals.

This is exactly how conservatives advertise themselves and try to separate themselves from liberals. Want to talk about elitism?


What are liberal ideals, Spunk?

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 11:36 AM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


Yeah, you're a sad guy, Spunk. :'(

Often it just takes age. ;)


You're saying when I get older I'm going to sit on a computer and bitch about liberals all day, seeing as it is the only way for the world to get better?


Nope. I'm just saying that as people mature and have real world responsibilities they become more conservative over time. Besides, since I've known you you've sitting at the computer bitching incoherently.


Feelings mutual. :)

Well I have real world responsibilities and I am mature. So....? You would not be acting just a bit arrogant now, would you? Suggesting that only responsible---and therefore better, less disposable people---are conservatives?

MMC
07-04-2011, 11:37 AM
Exactly D.....when we are all young. We are willing to risk more take more chances . As we get older we become more conservative. Time, money, and energy. All Apply!


What does this have to do with liberal ideals? And why are you trying to liken age with wisdom with conservatism? I know plenty of old, wise liberals.

This is exactly how conservatives advertise themselves and try to separate themselves from liberals. Want to talk about elitism?

Yes....do you? I know all about the Liberal Elite as opposed to other Elites. Relgious Elites, The Supremists, The Best of the Best.

You are talking to one.....I was trained to be an Elite Soldier!

If you need an example.....we can go with speed. Obviously age is a factor even with ideals.
When younger you are able to move faster and you have more speed. As you get older you lose some of this. Younger more in a hurry to get done with whatever and onto the next thing up front and center. Older more wiser. Take your time with things. More apt to make sure you got it right the first-time.

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 11:40 AM
Exactly D.....when we are all young. We are willing to risk more take more chances . As we get older we become more conservative. Time, money, and energy. All Apply!


What does this have to do with liberal ideals? And why are you trying to liken age with wisdom with conservatism? I know plenty of old, wise liberals.

This is exactly how conservatives advertise themselves and try to separate themselves from liberals. Want to talk about elitism?

Yes....do you? I know all about the Liberal Elite as opposed to other Elites. Relgious Elites, The Supremists, The Best of the Best.

You are talking to one.....I was trained to be an Elite Soldier!

If you need an example.....we can go with speed. Obviously age is a factor even with ideals.
When younger you are able to move faster and you have more speed. As you get older you lose some of this. Younger more in a hurry to get done with whatever and onto the next thing up front and center. Older more wiser. Take your time with things. More apt to make sure you got it right the first-time.


So we might agree that both sides have their benefits, and that it's foolish to put all your faith and devotion into just one of them simply because everybody is telling you to. Right?

Mister D
07-04-2011, 11:40 AM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


Yeah, you're a sad guy, Spunk. :'(

Often it just takes age. ;)


You're saying when I get older I'm going to sit on a computer and bitch about liberals all day, seeing as it is the only way for the world to get better?


Nope. I'm just saying that as people mature and have real world responsibilities they become more conservative over time. Besides, since I've known you you've sitting at the computer bitching incoherently.


Feelings mutual. :)

Well I have real world responsibilities and I am mature. So....? You would not be acting just a bit arrogant now, would you? Suggesting that only responsible---and therefore better, less disposable people---are conservatives?


I'm just stating a fact. People tend to get more conservative as they get older. Not everyone but it's a broadly observed pattern. Attitudes change especially when there is much more at stake.

Less disposable? what does that even mean?

MMC
07-04-2011, 11:59 AM
Exactly D.....when we are all young. We are willing to risk more take more chances . As we get older we become more conservative. Time, money, and energy. All Apply!


What does this have to do with liberal ideals? And why are you trying to liken age with wisdom with conservatism? I know plenty of old, wise liberals.

This is exactly how conservatives advertise themselves and try to separate themselves from liberals. Want to talk about elitism?

Yes....do you? I know all about the Liberal Elite as opposed to other Elites. Relgious Elites, The Supremists, The Best of the Best.

You are talking to one.....I was trained to be an Elite Soldier!

If you need an example.....we can go with speed. Obviously age is a factor even with ideals.
When younger you are able to move faster and you have more speed. As you get older you lose some of this. Younger more in a hurry to get done with whatever and onto the next thing up front and center. Older more wiser. Take your time with things. More apt to make sure you got it right the first-time.


So we might agree that both sides have their benefits, and that it's foolish to put all your faith and devotion into just one of them simply because everybody is telling you to. Right?

Well actually, no! The Liberal Elitist deals in absolution-isms, while achieiving their means. Morover the Liberal Elite believes there is none equal to nor superior over him. Not even another Liberal Elite. Whereas other Elitists rely on those around them and those they can control, subjugate, take advantage of and keep those others who are not their equal down. down.

Conley
07-04-2011, 12:02 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 12:11 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Very true.

MMC
07-04-2011, 12:18 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Mr. Wendal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9pfxI1p3v8#)

This is not true CL......the Liberal Elitist wants the perfect society. The problem comes in when comes to an issue like those in this video. Since they cannot solve the problem thru any postive means. The last solution is eradication. Because in a perfect society. There is no homeless people and or bums. :)

Conley
07-04-2011, 12:22 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Very true.


I also think it is counterproductive and intellectually dishonest to suggest that liberals want to keep the poor down by making them dependent on the government and that conservatives only care about getting richer.

There are certainly leaders of the two groups that follow those practices for personal gain, but it does nothing for our arguments to make those claims without being more specific as to who we are accusing of these misdeeds, and present evidence to support it. 99% of conservatives and liberals are just ordinary American folks.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 12:23 PM
I think he is referring to everyday liberal Joe and Mary six packs. I sound like Peter Jennings... ::)

Mister D
07-04-2011, 12:24 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Very true.


I also think it is counterproductive and intellectually dishonest to suggest that liberals want to keep the poor down by making them dependent on the government and that conservatives only care about getting richer.

There are certainly leaders of the two groups that follow those practices for personal gain, but it does nothing for our arguments to make those claims without being more specific as to who we are accusing of these misdeeds, and present evidence to support it. 99% of conservatives and liberals are just ordinary American folks.


As far as people are concerned, I agree. I would be careful to say liberalism when referring to its effects on society.

Conley
07-04-2011, 12:25 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Mr. Wendal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9pfxI1p3v8#)

This is not true CL......the Liberal Elitist wants the perfect society. The problem comes in when comes to an issue like those in this video. Since they cannot solve the problem thru and postive means. The last solution is eradication. Because in a perfect society. There is no homeless people and or bums. :)


Well, I'm not talking about power kabals or secret organizations. I'm talking about average ordinary liberals. I think there are plenty of elitist liberals who think they know it all and think they have solutions to homelessness and unemployment, but I am certain they are not planning eradication.

(to clarify when I say elitist liberals I just mean snobs...the equivalent of elitist conservatives. i don't really know who the Liberal Elite are and was just using the same language to describe a different group of people)

Conley
07-04-2011, 12:27 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Very true.


I also think it is counterproductive and intellectually dishonest to suggest that liberals want to keep the poor down by making them dependent on the government and that conservatives only care about getting richer.

There are certainly leaders of the two groups that follow those practices for personal gain, but it does nothing for our arguments to make those claims without being more specific as to who we are accusing of these misdeeds, and present evidence to support it. 99% of conservatives and liberals are just ordinary American folks.


As far as people are concerned, I agree. I would be careful to say liberalism when referring to its effects on society.


Can you flesh this out a bit more? Did I misspeak?

Conley
07-04-2011, 12:31 PM
I think he is referring to everyday liberal Joe and Mary six packs. I sound like Peter Jennings... ::)


mmm six packs ;D :occasion14:

well then I disagree with MMC completely. i don't think all liberals are elitist and i don't think they have plans for mass killings...i'll wait to see what he says.

edits

MMC
07-04-2011, 12:36 PM
I think he is referring to everyday liberal Joe and Mary six packs. I sound like Peter Jennings... ::)


Good thing you said Mary Six-packs and Not Bloodly Marys.....ah Jennings aint that bad. But you start talking like James(skeletor)Carville and I will have to start giving you some shots of Red-eye. http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/signs/dau.gif

Conley
07-04-2011, 12:37 PM
I think he is referring to everyday liberal Joe and Mary six packs. I sound like Peter Jennings... ::)


Good thing you said Mary Six-packs and Not Bloodly Marys.....ah Jennings aint that bad. But you start talking like James(skeletor)Carville and I will have to start giving you some shots of Red-eye. http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/signs/dau.gif


:D

MMC
07-04-2011, 01:13 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Very true.


I also think it is counterproductive and intellectually dishonest to suggest that liberals want to keep the poor down by making them dependent on the government and that conservatives only care about getting richer.

There are certainly leaders of the two groups that follow those practices for personal gain, but it does nothing for our arguments to make those claims without being more specific as to who we are accusing of these misdeeds, and present evidence to support it. 99% of conservatives and liberals are just ordinary American folks.


The Religious Elitist is about keeping the others down......and about taking advantage of them.
The Corporate Elitists are definately about keeping groups of people down. I don't think you can get around such.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 01:18 PM
When I see a thread like this where people pretend to know what they are talking about as far as the liberal mindset is concerned, I just get sad.

The truth is everybody has liberal intentions, no matter who you are. It takes alot of paranoia, proselytizing, anger and arrogance to turn a liberal into a conservative. They really are both the same thing, one is just much more angrier and greedier.


I think generally both sides want the best for all people. They just differ on how to go about getting there. Liberals are for more government involvement and conservatives are for more self-reliance. Ultimately both sides want to see an end to suffering, poverty, etc. the question is how best to do it.


Very true.


I also think it is counterproductive and intellectually dishonest to suggest that liberals want to keep the poor down by making them dependent on the government and that conservatives only care about getting richer.

There are certainly leaders of the two groups that follow those practices for personal gain, but it does nothing for our arguments to make those claims without being more specific as to who we are accusing of these misdeeds, and present evidence to support it. 99% of conservatives and liberals are just ordinary American folks.


As far as people are concerned, I agree. I would be careful to say liberalism when referring to its effects on society.


Can you flesh this out a bit more? Did I misspeak?


Only you could be the judge of whether you misspoke. I'm just saying that I wouldn't accuse liberals of damaging society ( most of whom have good intentions) but rather liberalism as a system and set of ideas.

MMC
07-04-2011, 01:32 PM
Yes but again the liberal Elitist deals in absolutes.....so with the theory of bums and homeless people. There is no way to stop this with human beings. Correct? So if the Liberal Elites have but only a couple of issues that are preventing them from achieving their perfect society. This group of people and it is the only thing preventing them from having that perfect society. Then they will take the eradication as the means to achieve their goal. For the concept will be for the betterment of all.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 01:36 PM
Yes but again the liberal Elitist deals in absolutes.....so with the theory of bums and homeless people. There is no way to stop this with human beings. Correct? So if the Liberal Elites have but only a couple of issues that are preventing them from achieving their perfect society. This group of people and it is the only thing preventing them from having that perfect society. Then they will take the eradication as the means to achieve their goal. For the concept will be for the betterment of all.


I think the elite tends to operate above left and right.

MMC
07-04-2011, 01:49 PM
Yes but again the liberal Elitist deals in absolutes.....so with the theory of bums and homeless people. There is no way to stop this with human beings. Correct? So if the Liberal Elites have but only a couple of issues that are preventing them from achieving their perfect society. This group of people and it is the only thing preventing them from having that perfect society. Then they will take the eradication as the means to achieve their goal. For the concept will be for the betterment of all.


I think the elite tends to operate above left and right.


While true, due to a 2 party system here. Both now have their Elites amongst themselves. Still when looking at issues of superiority what other Elitist type wants to do your thinking for you?

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 02:01 PM
It's so unfair that the right wing has succeeded in painting the left wing as elitist, supremacist and government-dependent. The opposite is way more true.

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 02:02 PM
For instance I don't see nearly as much hatred, disdain and outright blasphemy coming from the mouths of liberals as I see from conservatives.

Conley
07-04-2011, 02:04 PM
For instance I don't see nearly as much hatred, disdain and outright blasphemy coming from the mouths of liberals as I see from conservatives.


can you give concrete examples? it seems to me there is a lot of mudslinging on both sides...for every insult to obama, there's one for palin, etc. obama's family and palin's family have both been targeted....

spunkloaf
07-04-2011, 02:10 PM
You've got a point about Palin, Conley. But....come on, it's Palin. For her it's well deserved because she is constantly running her mouth off. She is ultra, ULTRA right-wing conservative Christian and she has nothing but contempt for anybody who doesn't see things the way she does. Specific examples?

Well, this forum is a good start. For one thing I certainly don't start any articles telling people why they should dislike conservatives. I usually try to let the evidence speak for itself. That's alot more than I can say for other people. I could make it so much easier on myself and start calling myself a conservative so that I don't take offense to it. But I would be lying to everybody and to myself.

Conley
07-04-2011, 02:49 PM
You've got a point about Palin, Conley. But....come on, it's Palin. For her it's well deserved because she is constantly running her mouth off. She is ultra, ULTRA right-wing conservative Christian and she has nothing but contempt for anybody who doesn't see things the way she does. Specific examples?

Well, this forum is a good start. For one thing I certainly don't start any articles telling people why they should dislike conservatives. I usually try to let the evidence speak for itself. That's alot more than I can say for other people. I could make it so much easier on myself and start calling myself a conservative so that I don't take offense to it. But I would be lying to everybody and to myself.


Well I admire you for sticking up for what you believe in. I don't think this forum in its new state is that partisan, I think we've had some good discussions that go well beyond that. You say you're a liberal, and I believe you, but I think I remember you've also made good arguments against raising taxes and government handouts. So, really you are an individual just like the rest of us on here. On some issues, just like you, I'm a liberal, others I'm a conservative. IMO sometimes you need to speak up about the evidence rather than just saying it speaks for itself, otherwise no one will notice.

Mister D
07-04-2011, 03:31 PM
For instance I don't see nearly as much hatred, disdain and outright blasphemy coming from the mouths of liberals as I see from conservatives.


Blasphemy? ???

Mister D
07-04-2011, 03:32 PM
You've got a point about Palin, Conley. But....come on, it's Palin. For her it's well deserved because she is constantly running her mouth off. She is ultra, ULTRA right-wing conservative Christian and she has nothing but contempt for anybody who doesn't see things the way she does. Specific examples?

Well, this forum is a good start. For one thing I certainly don't start any articles telling people why they should dislike conservatives. I usually try to let the evidence speak for itself. That's alot more than I can say for other people. I could make it so much easier on myself and start calling myself a conservative so that I don't take offense to it. But I would be lying to everybody and to myself.


What does "ultra, ULTRA right" mean to you?

Conley
07-04-2011, 04:17 PM
for anyone more curious about palin's background, here's a great and somewhat impartial article about her great successes in the early days of her governorship. she cleaned up corruption, took on big oil, and won major victories for the people of alaska...i realize some of you will discount the article immediately because of the source, but my impression was that palin certainly had a lot to be proud of

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/06/the-tragedy-of-sarah-palin/8492/