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MMC
12-07-2011, 08:54 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-hu-urges-navy-prepare-combat-160509787.html

Chinese President Hu Jintao on Tuesday urged the navy to prepare for military combat, amid growing regional tensions over maritime disputes and a US campaign to assert itself as a Pacific power.
The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernisation in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security," he said.

Several Asian nations have competing claims over parts of the South China Sea, believed to encompass huge oil and gas reserves, while China claims it all. One-third of global seaborne trade passes through the region.
Vietnam and the Philippines have accused Chinese forces of increasing aggression there.

The Pentagon however downplayed Hu's speech, saying that Beijing had the right to develop its military, although it should do so transparently.

Hu's announcement comes in the wake of trips to Asia by several senior US officials, including President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao last month warned against interference by "external forces" in regional territorial disputes including those in the South China Sea.

And China said late last month it would conduct naval exercises in the Pacific Ocean, after Obama, who has dubbed himself America's first Pacific president, said the US would deploy up to 2,500 Marines to Australia.....snip~

:shocked: The Chinese are waking up.....:undecided:

Peter1469
12-07-2011, 08:58 PM
The Chinese navy better pass out a lot of life vests.....

Mister D
12-07-2011, 09:08 PM
China builds prestige ships from what I understand. That's called planning for the last war.

Mister D
12-07-2011, 09:44 PM
China's bellicosity is alarming the rest of the region as well as India. I can't describe their diplomatic strategy as anything but crude and hamfisted. They remind me of the second German empire in so far as they perceive themselves as being encircled by hostile powers but it's their own clumsy foreign policy that drives their neighbors to align with other powers against them. This just occurred to me now but see several parallels with the second German Empire with regard to the self-perception of the Chinese and their desire to assert themselves on the world stage.

Conley
12-07-2011, 09:50 PM
You nailed it D...hamfisted. They are not thinking clearly and have an even more haphazard foreign policy than the U.S., which is saying something. Furthermore I take issue with the original article saying the United States is making an effort to establish itself as a power in the Pacific. Excuse me?!? Pretty sure we are already, and any who want to question that are more than welcome to step up to the plate.

Peter1469
12-07-2011, 10:01 PM
They can build advanced ships. But they need advanced skills, tactics and strategy to make those ships effective. Sure they have an air craft carrier. How many pilots do they have with the nads to land on it in high seas? What other ships do they have to protect their carrier?

They built themselves something fancy, they can't use it, and if they try it will end up on the bottom of the ocean.

Mister D
12-07-2011, 10:03 PM
You nailed it D...hamfisted. They are not thinking clearly and have an even more haphazard foreign policy than the U.S., which is saying something. Furthermore I take issue with the original article saying the United States is making an effort to establish itself as a power in the Pacific. Excuse me?!? Pretty sure we are already, and any who want to question that are more than welcome to step up to the plate.

It's also apparent that the other nations in the area prefer the devil they know. That is, the projection of US power is more palatable than Chinese ambitions.

Mister D
12-07-2011, 10:06 PM
They can build advanced ships. But they need advanced skills, tactics and strategy to make those ships effective. Sure they have an air craft carrier. How many pilots do they have with the nads to land on it in high seas? What other ships do they have to protect their carrier?

They built themselves something fancy, they can't use it, and if they try it will end up on the bottom of the ocean.

Exactly. Building capital ships is their priority but it's just not rational. Such ships have much more prestige value than practical value.

MMC
12-07-2011, 10:41 PM
Do we build our Navy with transparency? Of course China cannot compete with naval forces yet. There is what we know and what we see. Then there is the other hand behind the Chinese back. Sec. Gates already pointed out that the Chinese had been working on a missile designed specifically to take out a Carrier as well as any other ships within that radius. So in essence a Missiles Designed to take out a whole fleet.

Moreover the Chinese have been stockpiling Mini-Subs......not big subs. Subs made with one purpose only. To take out whatever and themselves at the same time. IMO it is a change in naval tactics. No more big type battles.

Even we ourselves have been looking at the Tactics of Amphibious Assaults and Changing that strategy with securing beachheads.

Conley
12-08-2011, 12:21 AM
I am more concerned with Chinese subs than aircraft carriers...carriers are more of a last generation war machine in my opinion. Can't remember if it was Peter or D but someone posted an article about Chinese subs and their ability to avoid detection. This was a major embarrassment:


From '06:

"A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.The surprise encounter highlights China’s continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing’s communist-ruled military.The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations’ militaries."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/13/20061113-121539-3317r/?page=all

MMC
12-08-2011, 08:22 AM
Then there is the Chinese hackers division attempting to get into anything and everything. From banks to Military tech.

Does anyone actually believe what our Government has to say about China and it's capabilities? Other than they have the largest Army in the World. That they are land-locked. Encircled and encapsulated. We are talking about the Chinese here. Sorry I do not look at the last 50-100 years and think this puts the Chinese into any type of Context we understand politically. What most get is poiltical propaganda. But the Chinese have always been able to hide shit from us. As well as anyone else. They excel at this.

Ask yourself this question. Do you think we have a larger Air Force then them? Do you think the Chinese are capable of producing an energy source to deliver a magnetic pulse. Taking out whatever they use and our shit? Would I put so much emphasis on them to have a navy with big ships to show their vanity or their true capabilities. Never!

Mister D
12-08-2011, 09:08 AM
Our government likely overestimates their capabilities but that's wise.

Conley
12-08-2011, 09:12 AM
Our government likely overestimates their capabilities but that's wise.

I agree. Unfortunately EMPs are very real and I am fairly certain China already has the capability to create one high in the atmosphere. The U.S. and the Russians have this tech too. I believe it is simply a matter of setting off a specialized nuke at 30,000 feet or so.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 09:14 AM
I'm sure both sides are doing plenty in secret.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 09:16 AM
I agree. Unfortunately EMPs are very real and I am fairly certain China already has the capability to create one high in the atmosphere. The U.S. and the Russians have this tech too. I believe it is simply a matter of setting off a specialized nuke at 30,000 feet or so.

That's a de facto nuclear strike and opens up a whole can of apocalyptic worms.

MMC
12-08-2011, 09:30 AM
Yet without the use of Nukes.....Anyone hear of us hacking into Military Tech divisions or experimental and research divisions of the Chinese? Ever hear the Chinese bitching about us or any other doing it to them?

Mister D
12-08-2011, 09:34 AM
If we did I seriously doubt the Chinese would let it be known. Don't make the mistake of assuming your enemy's mentality is the same as your own.

Conley
12-08-2011, 09:38 AM
That's a de facto nuclear strike and opens up a whole can of apocalyptic worms.

Oh definitely, it would be a disaster. I was replying to MMC's question: "Do you think the Chinese are capable of producing an energy source to deliver a magnetic pulse. "

The answer is affirmative.

Conley
12-08-2011, 09:39 AM
If we did I seriously doubt the Chinese would let it be known. Don't make the mistake of assuming your enemy's mentality is the same as your own.

Exactly...I am sure our military tests their electronic security all the time. Why wouldn't they? How would it benefit the Chinese to let it be known? Their media and our media are so different I don't think the comparison is of any use. You can't expect their media to report incursions the way ours would.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 09:44 AM
Oh definitely, it would be a disaster. I was replying to MMC's question: "Do you think the Chinese are capable of producing an energy source to deliver a magnetic pulse. "

The answer is affirmative.


Most likely. True.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Exactly...I am sure our military tests their electronic security all the time. Why wouldn't they? How would it benefit the Chinese to let it be known? Their media and our media are so different I don't think the comparison is of any use. You can't expect their media to report incursions the way ours would.

Right. It's not an open society and the Chicoms are not wont to admit vulnerabilities.

MMC
12-08-2011, 10:02 AM
Through-out Chinese History.....the long term has always been their play. It should be the one thing that any of our so called experts should understand. Nothing of major significance would be shown in the short term goal of expediency.

But they sure had no problem showing the world they could knock a moving satellite out of the sky from the ground! Not that we have done yet. Kinda like saying heres a peek. Now STFU! Our Foreign Policy has been compromised. I think we underestimate the Chinese by far more than we even possibly know.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Through-out Chinese History.....the long term has always been their play. It should be the one thing that any of our so called experts should understand. Nothing of major significance would be shown in the short term goal of expediency.

But they sure had no problem showing the world they could knock a moving satellite out of the sky from the ground! Not that we have done yet. Kinda like saying heres a peek. Now STFU! Our Foreign Policy has been compromised. I think we underestimate the Chinese by far more than we even possibly know.

Yes. Chinese very wise.


http://www.china-cart.com/bookpic/200910/2009102301626.jpg


It's one thing to respect your opponent but quite another to make him into a cartoon villain. Thankfully, US planners aren't so irrational.

Conley
12-08-2011, 10:19 AM
Shop at China Cart? Mmm sounds like a good place to pick up some soy... :grin:

MMC
12-08-2011, 11:09 AM
Who would think China is a Cartoon Character. One thing is for certain. They are NO paper Tiger!

http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/070523-China-Military-Power-final.pdf


The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is pursuing comprehensive transformation from a mass army designedfor protracted wars of attrition on its territory to one capable of fighting and winning short-duration, high intensityconflicts against high-tech adversaries – which China refers to as “local wars under conditions ofinformatization.” China’s ability to sustain military power at a distance, at present, remains limited but, asnoted in the 2006 Quadrennial Defense Review Report it “has the greatest potential to compete militarily with the United States and field disruptive military technologies that could over time offset traditional U.S. militaryadvantages.

China’s strategic forces modernization is enhancing strategic strike capabilities, as evidenced by the DF-31

intercontinental range ballistic missile, which achieved initial threat availability in 2006. China’s counterspaceprogram – punctuated by the January 2007 successful test of a direct-ascent, anti-satellite weapon – posesdangers to human space flight and puts at risk the assets of all space faring nations. China’s continued pursuitof area denial and anti-access strategies is expanding from the traditional land, air, and sea dimensions of themodern battle field to include space and cyber-space.

The outside world has limited knowledge of the motivations, decision-making, and key capabilities supportingChina’s military modernization. China’s leaders have yet to explain adequately the purposes or desired endstatesof the PLA’s expanding military capabilities. China’s actions in certain areas increasingly appearinconsistent with its declaratory policies. Actual Chinese defense expenditures remain far above officially disclosedfigures. This lack of transparency in China’s military affairs will naturally and understandablyprompt international responses that hedge against the unknown.....snip~


You're Welcome to Read what was Reported to Congress this Year by the DOD.....:smiley:

MMC
12-08-2011, 11:11 AM
Note that site will not allow you to copy without breaking up the article. :angry:

Mister D
12-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Who said they were? What is this suposed to prove, MMC?

We know China is building up her military and we know that this buildup in Chin ais not transparent. Is anything in China? What's your point here?

MMC
12-08-2011, 11:22 AM
"D".....That we do not know what their Key Capabilities are!!!!! As Admitted by the report!

Mister D
12-08-2011, 11:28 AM
"D".....That we do not know what their Key Capabilities are!!!!! As Admitted by the report!

No one said we knew everything!!! That's not reason for wild conjecture!!! The report states the following!!!


China’s ability to sustain military power at a distance, at present, remains limited


They obviously feel certain of that!!!

:kiss:

MMC
12-08-2011, 11:47 AM
Thats our propaganda.....now where do you see any wild conjecture? There is no conjecture. What other country has knocked a moving satellite out from the ground? They also inflitrated the White House, DOD and NASA thru their cyber War. There is also the Russian assessment. Who has been training in exercises with them. As the report states such is outlook for twenty years. Now go back and read the shit they got listed from 10 years ago. Note the differences!

If one does not know what their enemies Key Capabilities Are.....Then They Know Nothing!!!!! In American terms this will equate to well they could have something. Then again they may not. Whatever they got ours are better. NOW THATS SOME CONJECTURE FOR YOU!

Conley
12-08-2011, 11:57 AM
I think everyone in our military takes the Chinese threat seriously. Really, they are the last remaining traditional standing military that could compete on our level at least from a numbers standpoint. It's not as if our military is just snoozing on them. It'd be one thing if we had a multitude of foreign nation threats but we don't. The Cold Bloc is gone so I don't see why you would think our military isn't keenly aware and keeping tabs on the Chinese. Where else would they be focusing?

MMC
12-08-2011, 12:07 PM
The only thing right now that is in our favor is that they are more or less regional. Moreover do you think the Chinese will be communistic in 20 years? 50 years? Wouldnt you say they are being conservative? Truly I do not think the Chinese and the US will ever get into it with each other Militarily regardless wht happens with others. Nor do I see them becoming aggressive militarily in the West. Not even if they would become the Worlds SuperPower.

Conley
12-08-2011, 12:12 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by them being conservative. I think they are continuing to move away from Communism as they have in the past. Twenty years from now I expect them to be even further away from it.

MMC
12-08-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by them being conservative. I think they are continuing to move away from Communism as they have in the past. Twenty years from now I expect them to be even further away from it.

Militarily they are conservative. Or have been for over how many hundreds of years? Would you say they are aggressive? Do you see their Military all over the World? I have learned that they are patient. Truly I wonder if they thought it all out already.....and decided that they want no part of Ruling a Free World!

Conley
12-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Ah, I thought you meant in military spending. They are pouring money into all kinds of things so I would not classify them as conservative in that sense. Certainly they are playing a smart game when it comes to global matters. Let the U.S. keep the oil markets stable through military action while they just sit back. They are every bit as dependent on foreign oil as we are I believe.

MMC
12-08-2011, 12:34 PM
Well truthfully don't they have the right to go after resources. No one has said anything about them mining copper in Afghanistan this whole time the War has been going on. Aren't their cars a lot smaller to. Plus are they not part of the BRIC? Dealing with Brazil. Think they could go to an alternative like with using Brazil?

Conley
12-08-2011, 12:41 PM
They could definitely go the route Brazil has taken IMO. Brazil has really made a blueprint for how it can be done.

MMC
12-08-2011, 12:50 PM
Heya D.....that report from the DOD was dated 2007 and we would have to wait another 3 years to get whatever classified info they would release generally then. I am sure they are quite concerned with our expansion into the area surrounding the Yellow Sea. Yet we have had several encounters with them these last two years. Which did culminate with them shutting Hong Kong off from us for a week or so.

We had some Chinese trawlers approach our ships too. I guess that would be their version of Merchant Marines.

I agree with Conley I would be concerned about Submarines tho. I mean its not like we havent come up with some Specialty Ships of our own. What bothers me was the one they shown that was suppose to be the Ultimate in tracking subs or anything underwater. That they the Russians, and now Iranians have got URV's in on us without detection.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Thats our propaganda.....now where do you see any wild conjecture? There is no conjecture. What other country has knocked a moving satellite out from the ground? They also inflitrated the White House, DOD and NASA thru their cyber War. There is also the Russian assessment. Who has been training in exercises with them. As the report states such is outlook for twenty years. Now go back and read the shit they got listed from 10 years ago. Note the differences!

If one does not know what their enemies Key Capabilities Are.....Then They Know Nothing!!!!! In American terms this will equate to well they could have something. Then again they may not. Whatever they got ours are better. NOW THATS SOME CONJECTURE FOR YOU!

If it's our propaganda then why are you relying on it to prove a point? Again, you have no idea what we've been doing in terms of cyberwar against the Chinese. None whatsoever. Do you really thin the Chinese would admit to any breach of their security?

Here we go again...you just said you aren't engaing in wild conjecture but you state that we don't kow what China's capabilities are even though your own source states that we do. Limited knowledge and no knowledge are two very different things, MMC. You always have these doomsday we're fucked scenarios that just aren't half as realistic as you think they are.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 12:53 PM
Militarily they are conservative. Or have been for over how many hundreds of years? Would you say they are aggressive? Do you see their Military all over the World? I have learned that they are patient. Truly I wonder if they thought it all out already.....and decided that they want no part of Ruling a Free World!

This Chinese patience stuff is cartoonish, MMC.

Conley
12-08-2011, 01:08 PM
I should also clarify that when I say China is dependent on foreign oil I mean economically, not per capita like we here in the States.

Remember how I posted the Chinese are buying up oil companies in Canada?

Here is more info on other foreign efforts they are undertaking. So yes, they are very dependent.


This raises an important issue for China. Besides deep pockets, China’s willingness to invest in trouble-spots like Sudan and South Sudan has given its oil companies an edge over western majors in seeking reserves. But that comes at the price of a higher risk of disruption.http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-QV737_overhe_D_20111202124647.jpgAgence France-Presse/Getty ImagesSudanese Oil Minister Ali Ahmed Osman
This may explain why in the past few years, China’s investment in overseas oil and gas assets has begun tilting towards calmer places like North America. Whereas 23% of Chinese spending on oil and gas acquisitions went to Africa in 2006, it has accounted for just 11% so far this year, according to data from Dealogic. Meanwhile, investment in Canada and the U.S. has rocketed from zero in 2006 to 34% this year.

http://blogs.wsj.com/overheard/2011/12/02/chinas-oil-import-dilemma/

MMC
12-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Right doomsdayish.....cartoonish, yeah that may look like it with one who has such limited experience and exposure to reality. What those cartoon pics dont help out politically huh? You got this all from that 35 yrs of experience eh. Plus all that Combat and militarily experience right. Yeah those in Military dont ever talk about the enemy or get to play them. Or would even know a sliver moreso than some civillian who aint been anywheres. Doomsday fucked scenario, my ass.

"The outside world has limited knowledge of the motivations, decision-making, and key capabilities supporting China’s military modernization"

All I stated was what D.....Key capabilities. That we dont know shit. Like the report stated. but you can hang with your limited knowledge!

jgreer
12-08-2011, 01:33 PM
Thats how Mister D tries to win arguements by name calling. I dont let it get to me.

MMC
12-08-2011, 02:00 PM
http://studentweb.cortland.edu/alicia.hill/mypage/mypage/chinamap.gif

Those vast resources they believe to be under the South China Sea.....which Nam and the Phillipines have a piece of maybe Cambodia to. Then there is the Yellow Sea with China and Korea. Both Nam and the Phillipines say the Chinese are aggressive with them. Both state that the Chinese have attacked their vessels. The Chinese the say the same about both of them.

We have had a fleet out there since Obama took Office. Engaging in excercises with South Korea. Some Ships going and assisting Japan. It didnt stop them from engaging us. Nor do we get distress calls from those that say they were attacked. Knowing our fleet was there. Nor from Closing off Hong Kong. We also had a base in the Phillipines. But wasnt it the Phillpines that wanted us out?

Conley
12-08-2011, 02:03 PM
They all want us out. Right up until there is some military or humanitarian crisis. Then they want us back. I'm tired of it frankly.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 02:24 PM
Right doomsdayish.....cartoonish, yeah that may look like it with one who has such limited experience and exposure to reality. What those cartoon pics dont help out politically huh? You got this all from that 35 yrs of experience eh. Plus all that Combat and militarily experience right. Yeah those in Military dont ever talk about the enemy or get to play them. Or would even know a sliver moreso than some civillian who aint been anywheres. Doomsday fucked scenario, my ass.

"The outside world has limited knowledge of the motivations, decision-making, and key capabilities supporting China’s military modernization"

All I stated was what D.....Key capabilities. That we dont know shit. Like the report stated. but you can hang with your limited knowledge!

Your own source states that our knowledge of Chinese capabilties is limited. It does not say that we "don't know shit". Don't cite sources that contradict claims.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 02:24 PM
Thats how Mister D tries to win arguements by name calling. I dont let it get to me.

How does his ass taste, greer?

Mister D
12-08-2011, 02:26 PM
They all want us out. Right up until there is some military or humanitarian crisis. Then they want us back. I'm tired of it frankly.

They are more than happy with US power as opposed to Chinese.

Conley
12-08-2011, 02:30 PM
They are more than happy with US power as opposed to Chinese.

Definitely. If you have to pick one overlord it makes sense to chose the US.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 02:32 PM
Definitely. If you have to pick one overlord it makes sense to chose the US.


Absolutely. That's not to say they are happy. Just smart.

MMC
12-08-2011, 02:42 PM
Your own source states that our knowledge of Chinese capabilties is limited. It does not say that we "don't know shit". Don't cite sources that contradict claims.


Well I thought you were reading me as in meaning we really don't know shit. Yeah the article states whatever we do know is limited. Like for instance we have no idea how many planes they have. Nor mini-subs, Nor URV's, nor how many of those missiles they have that can knock a satellite out of the sky from the ground. Nor even if they have the Carrier Fleet killer as some suggest. We know that Gates said they can already strike the US with Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. So yeah thats limited.

As to meaning fucked.....I already stated our Intelligence was compromised. They are two steps behind the Chinese and IMO are misreading the whole play for that region.

Conley
12-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Has American intelligence ever been good? Seems to me the Soviets dominated us from atomic secrets in the 50s all the way up to the 80s, and we haven't done better in other parts of the world either (like our info on Saddam).

Mister D
12-08-2011, 03:22 PM
Well I thought you were reading me as in meaning we really don't know shit. Yeah the article states whatever we do know is limited. Like for instance we have no idea how many planes they have. Nor mini-subs, Nor URV's, nor how many of those missiles they have that can knock a satellite out of the sky from the ground. Nor even if they have the Carrier Fleet killer as some suggest. We know that Gates said they can already strike the US with Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. So yeah thats limited.

As to meaning fucked.....I already stated our Intelligence was compromised. They are two steps behind the Chinese and IMO are misreading the whole play for that region.

But we do know shit. We just don't know everything or have a complete picture. Nor do they. Do you honestly believe that US planners are not well aware of China's ambitions and are not developing US contingency plans? Moreover, do you honestly believe we aren't spying on China extensively?

Mister D
12-08-2011, 03:23 PM
Has American intelligence ever been good? Seems to me the Soviets dominated us from atomic secrets in the 50s all the way up to the 80s, and we haven't done better in other parts of the world either (like our info on Saddam).

Great book on the KGB.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Was-Going-Our-Way/dp/0465003117

Conley
12-08-2011, 03:43 PM
I also think we have the capability to shoot down satellites. IMO it's foolish to publicize technological breakthroughs in military science. The countries that do it typically are desperate for respect on the world stage (Iran, North Korea, etc.) The United States has no such need to prove itself.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 04:03 PM
I also think we have the capability to shoot down satellites. IMO it's foolish to publicize technological breakthroughs in military science. The countries that do it typically are desperate for respect on the world stage (Iran, North Korea, etc.) The United States has no such need to prove itself.

'
The Chinese are definitely craving respect on the world stage and that is why their foriegn policy seems so clumsy to westerners.

MMC
12-08-2011, 08:00 PM
But we do know shit. We just don't know everything or have a complete picture. Nor do they. Do you honestly believe that US planners are not well aware of China's ambitions and are not developing US contingency plans? Moreover, do you honestly believe we aren't spying on China extensively?


I am quite sure we are attempting to spy on them.....which they have known for years we have been trying to spy on them. No, I don't think US planners know anything other than general information concerning their ambitions.

Do we have contingency plans.....I am sure we do. Of course that would also take some understanding of what the Chinese intentions are for that region of the world.

Mister D
12-08-2011, 08:08 PM
I am quite sure we are attempting to spy on them.....which they have known for years we have been trying to spy on them. No, I don't think US planners know anything other than general information concerning their ambitions.

Do we have contingency plans.....I am sure we do. Of course that would also take some understanding of what the Chinese intentions are for that region of the world.

I'm sure the Chinese know we're trying to spy on them, MMC, and our knowledge of their ambitions isn't the point. The Chinese themselves are likely divided over exactly what their ambitions are but, again, this is the sort of thing we only get rare glimpses of. It's not an open society.

No, it wouldn't. You make contingency plans for potential situations.

MMC
12-08-2011, 08:21 PM
I also think we have the capability to shoot down satellites. IMO it's foolish to publicize technological breakthroughs in military science. The countries that do it typically are desperate for respect on the world stage (Iran, North Korea, etc.) The United States has no such need to prove itself.

We do.....but not from the ground. Ours is done from the Air. Not that we couldnt do it as we have the capability.

Conley
12-09-2011, 09:53 AM
We do.....but not from the ground. Ours is done from the Air. Not that we couldnt do it as we have the capability.

How do you know we can't do it from the ground?

MMC
12-09-2011, 10:01 AM
Thats how Mister D tries to win arguements by name calling. I dont let it get to me.

First JG he didnt call me any name.....second he is my brutha and when he throws a check out to me. Thats for me and him to keep it straight like I always do. Not get ahead of myself. Not to mention he already knows historically the Chinese use patience as a tactic with their politics and some military strategy! Both of us are History Buffs.....and he knows there isnt Anything in this World I wouldnt do for him. If he asks! Moreover.....even if he did call me a name or jumped into my shit. Wouldnt matter! Thats what bruthas are for. Acceptance, Tolerance, and Loyalty!!!!! <<<<<Hits Chest.....Right Fist over Heart! Til OmniVerse Comes!
:yo2: :afro:

MMC
12-09-2011, 10:05 AM
How do you know we can't do it from the ground?

I don't think we have tried.....yet our tactic has been to get something in the Air and launch from there. We have had planes that almost break our atmosphere up there. I would think the chances would be better than from the ground.

Conley
12-09-2011, 10:11 AM
Interesting. We've had planes that go to the upper atmosphere / inner space for decades...surely the Chinese do too?

MMC
12-09-2011, 10:21 AM
Dunno.....maybe the New Mig. They did have a problem with such elevations before. :undecided:

jgreer
12-09-2011, 10:42 AM
First JG he didnt call me any name.....second he is my brutha and when he throws a check out to me. Thats for me and him to keep it straight like I always do. Not get ahead of myself. Not to mention he already knows historically the Chinese use patience as a tactic with their politics and some military strategy! Both of us are History Buffs.....and he knows there isnt Anything in this World I wouldnt do for him. If he asks! Moreover.....even if he did call me a name or jumped into my shit. Wouldnt matter! Thats what bruthas are for. Acceptance, Tolerance, and Loyalty!!!!! <<<<<Hits Chest.....Right Fist over Heart! Til OmniVerse Comes!
:yo2: :afro:

I try to help you out and your throw it back in my face? He did call you names and said you were full of it but you still kiss his butt i see how it is. Never get between a man and his boyfriend i guess LOL

MMC
12-09-2011, 11:15 AM
I try to help you out and your throw it back in my face? He did call you names and said you were full of it but you still kiss his butt i see how it is. Never get between a man and his boyfriend i guess LOL



http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_268054&amp;src_vid=VZAg mty_4xg&amp;v=hcqOjEQWXMM&amp;feature=iv

Now JG don't go playing EZE.....Besides U can call me what you want. Just don't call me late for supper. Or it's your azz. Just sayin! :wink:

Conley
12-09-2011, 11:19 AM
:laugh: Uh oh!

MMC
12-09-2011, 11:20 AM
"What":....:laugh:

Conley
12-09-2011, 11:29 AM
Don't make MMC angry...you wouldn't like him when he's angry. He'll drop a lot of video posts! :grin:

MMC
12-09-2011, 11:30 AM
:laugh: Uh oh!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By-afQBNgWc

What you Uh-ohing about brutha.....U part of this gangsta-shit! :afro: :wink:

Conley
12-09-2011, 11:37 AM
:shocked: See what I mean JG?! Now we are getting the videos! :rofl:

MMC is like the Incredible Hulk, only when he gets angry he doesn't turn green he starts posting videos instead :grin:

MMC
12-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Don't make MMC angry...you wouldn't like him when he's angry. He'll drop a lot of video posts! :grin:


U think I am bad..... :undecided: just go ahead and take away CL's beer! :shocked:

Conley
12-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Hands off the booze!

MMC
12-09-2011, 11:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

Blame Me! :evil5:

MMC
12-09-2011, 01:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmJjD33eKDU

Ah, Don't take it that way JG.....We Are Family!

You libs are like the Lost Tribe.....don't worry we gonna bring you back round to whats Right! :smiley:

Conley
12-09-2011, 03:13 PM
I think the videos may have driven him away! :wink:

Peter1469
12-09-2011, 07:21 PM
We do spy from the ground in China.

Mister D
12-09-2011, 08:19 PM
We do spy from the ground in China.

No doubt. They spy on us too and we both use ethnic Chinese to do it.

MMC
12-09-2011, 08:57 PM
No doubt. They spy on us too and we both use ethnic Chinese to do it.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1444056999935&id=6156556595c445130c48bacfd3d79ae6&url=http%3a%2f%2f1.bp.blogspot.com%2f_8k7m4e2TYeU% 2fScfQu7_E5MI%2fAAAAAAAADDk%2fj_EzlMiLlxk%2fs400%2 f340.jpg

Ethnic Chinese! :grin:

Mister D
12-09-2011, 09:18 PM
I don't think that dude is ethnic Chinese. :grin:

MMC
12-09-2011, 09:21 PM
I was trying to find some better pics of him.....Thats Jerry Lewis! I know he played some Chinese Charachters. Plus he did do the film the Geisha Boy. :laugh:

Conley
12-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Ethnic Chinese is delicious by the way. :smiley:

MMC
12-09-2011, 09:35 PM
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1446304888163&id=e2b460877d9f164321209fe5ec187713&url=http%3a%2f%2f3.bp.blogspot.com%2f_JR7-GhHng1c%2fSxDTQigm1bI%2fAAAAAAAAA6k%2fWrmpkJsS9dU% 2fhilarious-cannibals-jokes.jpg

Yeah.....could you pass the hor dourves. :laugh: :grin:

Conley
12-09-2011, 09:37 PM
Hahaha, where's the vomiting smiley you posted in the LiLo thread?

Mister D
12-09-2011, 09:53 PM
http://www.fototime.com/46AF396C2DBB9E0/standard.jpg

What about #2 son bitches!? :afro:

MMC
12-09-2011, 10:06 PM
http://www.fototime.com/46AF396C2DBB9E0/standard.jpg

What about #2 son bitches!? :afro:

LOL that was my Next Recourse.....Charlie Chan. I use to watch him when I was kid on Sunday Mornings as there was nothing else on. :highfive:

Mister D
12-09-2011, 10:19 PM
I like the Chan films. :grin:

MMC
12-09-2011, 10:25 PM
You know the one thing I always heard when I was serving. Is that we would Always play the Russians against the Chinese and vice versa. Especially since there was the division between Russia and China over lands and on the Border Disputes.

Which again IMO was not truly Sound. Especially after the break up of the Soviet Union. I never thought it was something that we looked at realistically back then. or that we shouldnt have and over anything that would be considered the long-term!

Mister D
12-09-2011, 10:29 PM
You know the one thing I always heard when I was serving. Is that we would Always play the Russians against the Chinese and vice versa. Especially since there was the division between Russia and China over lands and on the Border Disputes.

Which again IMO was not truly Sound. Especially after the break up of the Soviet Union. I never thought it was something that we looked at realistically back then. or that we shouldnt have and over anything that would be considered the long-term!

We had a lot of success playing them off against each other. The future is always an unknown. I agree that the US has been slow to get itself out of a Cold War mentality though.

MMC
12-09-2011, 10:48 PM
The good thing is with Putin stepping back up in Russia that will dampen some things with the Chinese. But now with us. Look China has agreed pretty much that they would be willing to accept a unified Korea with the Capital being in what is the South.

IMO I think the Chinese were looking at long term over the resources. Easier to deal with just one Korea in territorial waters rather than two. Also for the last 100 years we have known the one sea to be called what. The South China Sea.....it's even listen as such on all World Maps. Truly I can't think of it being called anything else.

Which if we are interjecting ourselves into the region for that resource that will definately lock us into more probable conflict with China. Which We do not need at this time.

Mister D
12-09-2011, 10:50 PM
China doesn't really need it either. It's not like Asia wants us out. They may not like us but they like us better than China.

MMC
12-09-2011, 11:01 PM
That is true.....but then how would they react if we were not about throwing them any money?