The conversion of Mister D

[Mister D]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) I've decided that from now on I will only buy humanely raised and sustainable meat and meat products. My primary motivation is religious but health considerations are a factor I suppose. It will cost more and will likely lead to an overall decrease in meat consumption but I've neglected these moral considerations for far too long. Thankfully, humanely raised pork and beef is now readily available locally. I can always make up for any protein loss with plant proteins.

[IMPress Polly]

It's a step in what I consider the right direction anyway. :smiley:

[Peter1469]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) I've decided that from now on I will only buy humanely raised and sustainable meat and meat products. My primary motivation is religious but health considerations are a factor I suppose. It will cost more and will likely lead to an overall decrease in meat consumption but I've neglected these moral considerations for far too long. Thankfully, humanely raised pork and beef is now readily available locally. I can always make up for any protein loss with plant proteins.

Great news! The expense will save you on health care....

[Mister D]

I guess I could add more fish to my diet as well.

[Chloe]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) I've decided that from now on I will only buy humanely raised and sustainable meat and meat products. My primary motivation is religious but health considerations are a factor I suppose. It will cost more and will likely lead to an overall decrease in meat consumption but I've neglected these moral considerations for far too long. Thankfully, humanely raised pork and beef is now readily available locally. I can always make up for any protein loss with plant proteins.

That's awesome! Obviously I would hope that your need/want for meat keeps decreasing over time as well but this is definitely a step in the right direction in my personal opinion.

[Chloe]

I guess I could add more fish to my diet as well.

or not :wink:

[Mister D]

That's awesome! Obviously I would hope that your need/want for meat keeps decreasing over time as well but this is definitely a step in the right direction in my personal opinion.

I do love my proteins and I have no intention of going vegetarian but I figure it's time to get serious about the moral issues.

[Chloe]

I do love my proteins and I have no intention of going vegetarian but I figure it's time to get serious about the moral issues.

May I ask what it was exactly that sparked it? Did you see some animal cruelty or something like that?

[Peter1469]

I agree.

[Mister D]

May I ask what it was exactly that sparked it? Did you see some animal cruelty or something like that?

I was reading a commentary on Genesis actually. It all came together for me. I have no compunctions about eating animals but their ruthless exploitation is another matter.

[Mister D]

or not :wink:

Meet me halfway! :grin:

[Chloe]

I was reading a commentary on Genesis actually. It all came together for me. I have no compunctions about eating animals but their ruthless exploitation is another matter.

fair enough

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
I was reading a commentary on Genesis actually. It all came together for me. I have no compunctions about eating animals but their ruthless exploitation is another matter.

Hmm. Well since you say it's time to get serious about the moral issues related to this, let me pose this challenge to you, since you're on a positive track as things are: let's compare this to people's standards for human beings. If we were talking about people, most of us would tend to say that killing and eating someone would be a worse and more oppressive offense that exploiting their labor power one-sidedly for your benefit. (e.g. While the latter might often be legal, the former is always illegal vis-a-vis our own species in the modern world.) Why is this logic reversed in your mind when it comes to animals? Doesn't it seem more cruel and oppressive to have animals systematically killed for your consumption than simply to have their labor power exploited?

[oceanloverOH]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) I've decided that from now on I will only buy humanely raised and sustainable meat and meat products. My primary motivation is religious but health considerations are a factor I suppose. It will cost more and will likely lead to an overall decrease in meat consumption but I've neglected these moral considerations for far too long. Thankfully, humanely raised pork and beef is now readily available locally. I can always make up for any protein loss with plant proteins.

I'm impressed, Mister D. You're so intelligent, and a good role model. I haven't gotten to the point of consciously choosing humanely raised and sustainable meat/meat products yet. But over the last year, I have added more fish to my diet and have consciously chosen "sustainable" varieties of seafood that are not the result of overfishing any area. I just may have to follow your lead. You said your decision was primarily motivated by religion; is it based on a Kosher diet? Just curious.

[Mister D]

Hmm. Well since you say it's time to get serious about the moral issues related to this, let me pose this challenge to you, since you're on a positive track as things are: let's compare this to people's standards for human beings. If we were talking about people, most of us would tend to say that killing and eating someone would be a worse and more oppressive offense that exploiting their labor power one-sidedly for your benefit. (e.g. While the latter might often be legal, the former is always illegal vis-a-vis our own species in the modern world.) Why is this logic reversed in your mind when it comes to animals? Doesn't it seem more cruel and oppressive to have animals systematically killed for your consumption than simply to have their labor power exploited?

Animals have always been systematically killed for human consumption and I see nothing wrong with exploiting animal labor (I mean exploit in a positive or neutral sense) provided standards are met. Farmers and peasants (i.e. those close to the land) have traditionally been known to have a deep affection for their beasts of burden. Industrial farming, on the other hand, is increasingly devoid of ethics and decency. To me, the issue is not inherent in the consumption of meat but rather a product of our relative isolation from nature. We have come to treat animals like we treat any other commodity (i.e. to be used in any way we please).

On the other hand, animals aren't people and it is precisely this sort of sentiment that has always driven me away from the animal rights crowd. While such sentiments may seem noble the 20th Century shows us that they don't result in better treatment of animals but in the devaluation of human beings.

[Mister D]

I'm impressed, @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4). You're so intelligent, and a good role model. I haven't gotten to the point of consciously choosing humanely raised and sustainable meat/meat products yet. But over the last year, I have added more fish to my diet and have consciously chosen "sustainable" varieties of seafood that are not the result of overfishing any area. I just may have to follow your lead. You said your decision was primarily motivated by religion; is it based on a Kosher diet? Just curious.

Thank you for the kind words. :smiley: It was a snap decision made this afternoon.

no I'm from a Catholic milieu but I do sometimes choose Kosher because I think you are more likely to get better meat.

[roadmaster]

It will cost more and will likely lead to an overall decrease in meat consumption but I've neglected these moral considerations for far too long. Thankfully, humanely raised pork and beef is now readily available locally. I can always make up for any protein loss with plant proteins. It actually cost me less.

[Common]

I have never even seen any meat labeled or packaged as humane. Its simply not available here to my knowledge. My wife and I do eat meat but its at a minimum. We were never people that ate meat everyday and actually its only a couple of times a week.
I applaud you Mr D if I was able to and it was available I certainly would too.

[Mister D]

It actually cost me less.

You live on a farm! :laugh: Or close to one anyway.

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
Animals have always been systematically killed for human consumption and I see nothing wrong with exploiting animal labor (I mean exploit in a positive or neutral sense) provided standards are met. Farmers and peasants (i.e. those close to the land) have traditionally been known to have a deep affection for their beasts of burden. Industrial farming, on the other hand, is increasingly devoid of ethics and decency. To me, the issue is not inherent in the consumption of meat but rather a product of our relative isolation from nature. We have come to treat animals like we treat any other commodity (i.e. to be used in any way we please).

On the other hand, animals aren't people and it is precisely this sort of sentiment that has always driven me away from the animal rights crowd. While such sentiments may seem noble the 20th Century shows us that they don't result in better treatment of animals but in the devaluation of human beings.

That overall argument strikes me as very subjective, but okay, I understand your position now: factory farming specifically has become a moral limit for you. That I can wrap my head around. I'm glad of that! It's a step in the right direction.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that people and other species are the same. Abolitionists like yours truly are simply saying that all deserve at least the basic negative liberties that are currently provided exclusively to people (e.g. the rights to life and liberty) on the basis of what we do have in common with "the beasts of burden". They may not have our degree of intelligence, but they experience all the same emotions we do, including pain and fear. Our differences suggest that we must treat animals differently (e.g. it would be silly to try and guarantee food and health care and education and democracy and so on to other species), but in a nonetheless compassionate and considerate way that applies the Golden Rule. That's my view.

[zelmo1234]

^^^^^^^ except for the unborn child I would guess. Most on the left are still OK with killing them! A cow or pig NO they want them to have rights, but an unborn child????????? What the hell kill it!

[Mister D]

That overall argument strikes me as very subjective, but okay, I understand your position now: factory farming specifically has become a moral limit for you. That I can wrap my head around. I'm glad of that! It's a step in the right direction.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that people and other species are the same. Abolitionists like yours truly are simply saying that all deserve at least the basic negative liberties that are currently provided exclusively to people (e.g. the rights to life and liberty) on the basis of what we do have in common with "the beasts of burden". They may not have our degree of intelligence, but they experience all the same emotions we do, including pain and fear. Our differences suggest that we must treat animals differently (e.g. it would be silly to try and guarantee food and health care and education and democracy and so on to other species), but in a nonetheless compassionate and considerate way that applies the Golden Rule. That's my view.

I wouldn't call it a moral limit since I don't see eating meat as immoral per se. Cruelty, thoughtless, and unethical treatment of animals is immoral and I have made the choice to stop supporting that with my money. I made a somewhat similar choice about pornography years ago.

I'm not sure what it means for an animal to have rights. That would entail that they would or could respect mine. Rights demand reciprocity. For me, it's not a choice between animals having rights or animals being abused. It's a matter of humanity and responsibility. It's simpy an unwillingness to support cruelty. That said, why doesn't all life deserve those negative liberties? Why the arbitrary line drawn for our furry friends? Sure, they are more like us but if it's a matter of respect for living things that shouldn't matter. After all, we share around 50% of our DNA with a banana.

[Mister D]

^^^^^^^ except for the unborn child I would guess. Most on the left are still OK with killing them! A cow or pig NO they want them to have rights, but an unborn child????????? What the hell kill it!

Relax :smiley:

[zelmo1234]

Relax :smiley:

You know I find it hard to relax when I here the same liberals that have no issue with killing an unborn child try and take the high road when it comes to the tretment of animals!

Just so you know I am a hug supporter of the small organic farms and the meats and produce they bring to the market, not because I am against corproate farming, I just prefer the quality of the product!

[Mister D]

You know I find it hard to relax when I here the same liberals that have no issue with killing an unborn child try and take the high road when it comes to the tretment of animals!

Just so you know I am a hug supporter of the small organic farms and the meats and produce they bring to the market, not because I am against corproate farming, I just prefer the quality of the product!

I respect that. I just don't want this degenerating into an abortion argument.

[Peter1469]

Have you noticed the difference in quality, D?

[Mister D]

Have you noticed the difference in quality, D?

With the grass fed beef, yes. Even without this decision I can't see myself going back. When I go out for steak (rarely) I guess I'll have to make do but otherwise I'm sticking with grass fed. I made chicken stew with organic/cage free thighs this weekend. I'll be eating it all week but I can't say I notice a difference. I'm eating it in gravy with a ton of vegis over mashed potatoes so that will probably make it difficult to notice. Haven't tried the pork yet but I've been eyeing it for a while now. Looks great.

[Peter1469]

With the grass fed beef, yes. Even without this decision I can't see myself going back. When I go out for steak (rarely) I guess I'll have to make do but otherwise I'm sticking with grass fed. I made chicken stew with organic/cage free thighs this weekend. I'll be eating it all week but I can't say I notice a difference. I'm eating it in gravy with a ton of vegis over mashed potatoes so that will probably make it difficult to notice. Haven't tried the pork yet but I've been eyeing it for a while now. Looks great.

Luckily here many of the better restaurants use grass fed beef. With the chicken, if you just broil it you will notice a difference in taste. And size, the factory farmed chickens often are so packed that they can't walk around. So their legs never develop.

[Mister D]

Luckily here many of the better restaurants use grass fed beef. With the chicken, if you just broil it you will notice a difference in taste. And size, the factory farmed chickens often are so packed that they can't walk around. So their legs never develop.

I did notice a difference in size now that you mention it. Yesah some of them were unusally large. Regarding steak houses, I've never really noticed who serves what. I just don't go out enough. Do you know anything about how turkeys are raised? I have never seen cage free turkey which makes me wonder if they are raised differently.

[Peter1469]

I did notice a difference in size now that you mention it. Yesah some of them were unusally large. Regarding steak houses, I've never really noticed who serves what. I just don't go out enough. Do you know anything about how turkeys are raised? I have never seen cage free turkey which makes me wonder if they are raised differently.

I am not a fan of turkey meat, so I don't follow it. But I think free range has always been big with turkeys- probably because they would kill each other if cramped up like chickens are in factory farms.

[Mister D]

I am not a fan of turkey meat, so I don't follow it. But I think free range has always been big with turkeys- probably because they would kill each other if cramped up like chickens are in factory farms.

That makes sense. I love turkey. It's always been my favorite meat. Glad to see I can still eat it!

[Peter1469]

That makes sense. I love turkey. It's always been my favorite meat. Glad to see I can still eat it!

I would still check it out. If you have access to the smaller farmers you should be fine.

My favorite fowl are game hens. That is flavor!

[Mister D]

I would still check it out. If you have access to the smaller farmers you should be fine.

My favorite fowl are game hens. That is flavor!

There is a popular turkey farm in NJ. From what I understand, there is a restaurant there and they dispatch the bird right there and then. I will have to do some online research.

Never tried a hen but I have a feeling I'll be branching out. :grin:

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
That said, why doesn't all life deserve those negative liberties? Why the arbitrary line drawn for our furry friends? Sure, they are more like us but if it's a matter of respect for living things that shouldn't matter. After all, we share around 50% of our DNA with a banana.

Well for me it's more like furry, scaly, feathery, whatever (I don't discriminate with preference for dogs and cats and other mammals like most people), but I get the essence of what you're saying.

Anyway, as to why I comparatively discriminate against plants, it's not an arbitrary discrimination: plants are not sentient beings. They don't have feelings. That's kind of different, IMO. Not SO different that I don't believe plants deserve any protection (I believe in saving the rainforests, stopping ozone depletion, ending landfills and whatnot!), but different enough for my position on plant life to favor sustainable development rather than non-development. I believe that yes the planet has rights too (indeed many Latin American countries have formally enshrined the rights of the Earth into law), but I don't go so far with that as to be a totally impractical primitivist. As for eating, we have to be able to eat plants because we have to be able to live too, and it's far more justifiable to eat plant products than it is to eat animal products because plants don't have feelings. That's my reasoning.


Zelmo wrote:
^^^^^^^ except for the unborn child I would guess. Most on the left are still OK with killing them! A cow or pig NO they want them to have rights, but an unborn child????????? What the hell kill it!

I'm sorry, but a single-cell organism is not the same thing as a sentient being in my mind. In my view, people and animals alike deserve legal rights when they are born and not before.

[Mister D]

Well for me it's more like furry, scaly, feathery, whatever (I don't discriminate with preference for dogs and cats and other mammals like most people), but I get the essence of what you're saying.

Anyway, as to why I comparatively discriminate against plants, it's not an arbitrary discrimination: plants are not sentient beings. They don't have feelings. That's kind of different, IMO. Not SO different that I don't believe plants deserve any protection (I believe in saving the rainforests, stopping ozone depletion, ending landfills and whatnot!), but different enough for my position on plant life to favor sustainable development rather than non-development. I believe that yes the planet has rights too (indeed many Latin American countries have formally enshrined the rights of the Earth into law), but I don't go so far with that as to be a totally impractical primitivist. As for eating, we have to be able to eat plants because we have to be able to live too, and it's far more justifiable to eat plant products than it is to eat animal products because plants don't have feelings. That's my reasoning.





That (i.e. sentience) makes sense and I definitely respect your POV. :smiley: I do find the more extreme varieties of "primitivism" as you call it and environmentalism alienating but I have developed greater sympathy for your positions in this regard.

[Mister D]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) the Hungarian I live with and another guy are planning a trip to a local farm. I guess I'll shop for my meat quarterly. The eggs I'm fine with. nellie's are reliable. not sure what I'll do about bacon. Maye the farm has it.

[Peter1469]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) the Hungarian I live with and another guy are planning a trip to a local farm. I guess I'll shop for my meat quarterly. The eggs I'm fine with. nellie's are reliable. not sure what I'll do about bacon. Maye the farm has it.

Let me know how the trip goes. You should be able to get a good idea of how the animals are treated.

[Mister D]

Let me know how the trip goes. You should be able to get a good idea of how the animals are treated.

Will do. Seeing good indications so far.

Like this place:

http://hincksfarm.com/fresh-turkeys/

[Mister D]

I guess I can just get a freezer and buy a bunch of meat. We were thinking about getting a whole cow between us. :undecided:

[Peter1469]

I guess I can just get a freezer and buy a bunch of meat. We were thinking about getting a whole cow between us. :undecided:

How is the power in your area? I have lost a lot of meat because of power failures.

[Mister D]

How is the power in your area? I have lost a lot of meat because of power failures.

never had issues. I survived Sandy without a scratch.

[Peter1469]

Cool then. Where I live now I don't think power is an issue either. At my condo, it was. I lost several hundred bucks worth of meat on two occasions.

[Mister D]

Cool then. Where I live now I don't think power is an issue either. At my condo, it was. I lost several hundred bucks worth of meat on two occasions.

Ah so you do what I'm planning to do (stock up for a few months).

[Peter1469]

Ah so you do what I'm planning to do (stock up for a few months).

No, just for a week or two.

[Mister D]

No, just for a week or two.

The farms I'm looking at aren't nearby. They are an hour away. I'll need some extra freezer space. Granted, I only looked briefly but I live about 35 minutes from Manhattan in a pretty densely populated part of the state. Lots of suburban sprawl around here (although the towns date from the early colonial era). I'm probably looking at a 45 minute drive at least.

[Peter1469]

The farms I'm looking at aren't nearby. They are an hour away. I'll need some extra freezer space. Granted, I only looked briefly but I live about 35 minutes from Manhattan in a pretty densely populated part of the state. Lots of suburban sprawl around here (although the towns date from the early colonial era). I'm probably looking at a 45 minute drive at least.


That makes sense. I would do the same in those circumstances.

[Mister D]

To all and sundry, I'm new to this lifestyle and the choices/labels are bewildering. I did some research last night and I know some brand names I can trust for eggs and turkeys and some I should probably avoid. Granted, I'm not going to feel guilty about making a mistake once in a while but I'd appreciate any tips . Either here or via PM. Thanks.

[Peter1469]

To all and sundry, I'm new to this lifestyle and the choices/labels are bewildering. I did some research last night and I know some brand names I can trust for eggs and turkeys and some I should probably avoid. Granted, I'm not going to feel guilty about making a mistake once in a while but I'd appreciate any tips . Either here or via PM. Thanks.


There are a lot of "imitation" brands that claim to be "organic" but are really just factory farms. Googling the brand names should provide you the info that you need. A lot you can tell by the way it looks and tastes. A true free range egg is more orange than yellow. Assuming that you are not adding sauce, you can easily tell grass fed from corn fed beef. You also have grass fed beef that are fed corn the last two weeks of life- and they can be from farms that treat the animals well.

[Mister D]

There are a lot of "imitation" brands that claim to be "organic" but are really just factory farms. Googling the brand names should provide you the info that you need. A lot you can tell by the way it looks and tastes. A true free range egg is more orange than yellow. Assuming that you are not adding sauce, you can easily tell grass fed from corn fed beef. You also have grass fed beef that are fed corn the last two weeks of life- and they can be from farms that treat the animals well.

Thanks. Yeah, I see a lot online. I will write down the brand names I see and look them up. The thing is the USDA has minimal guidelines for what constitutes "cage free" etc.

[Peter1469]

Thanks. Yeah, I see a lot online. I will write down the brand names I see and look them up. The thing is the USDA has minimal guidelines for what constitutes "cage free" etc.

Right. Pay attention to phrases that make you think cage free.... If they aren't using the official terms there is a reason.

[Mister D]

Right. Pay attention to phrases that make you think cage free.... If they aren't using the official terms there is a reason.

There is a humane society stamp that I've read is a lot more reliable than any government agency. Humane Farm Animal Care it's called. Nellie's eggs have that so I'll stick with those. And you're right, they have a deeper yellow/orange color.

[Mister D]

No wonder Du Breton meats are so expensive. Their imported from Canada and France. I see then in my local market. Boars, rabbits, ducks...all certified humane. The local meats will be significantly less exoensive and just as tasty.

[Peter1469]

No wonder Du Breton meats are so expensive. Their imported from Canada and France. I see then in my local market. Boars, rabbits, ducks...all certified humane. The local meats will be significantly less exoensive and just as tasty.

Part of the sustainable farming movement is buying local- to avoid the issues with transportation.

Go ahead and buy from sources like that as a treat, but I would keep my typical purchases local- as local as possible. Heck I have ordered caviar from Europe at $100+ an ounce.

[Mister D]

Part of the sustainable farming movement is buying local- to avoid the issues with transportation.

Go ahead and buy from sources like that as a treat, but I would keep my typical purchases local- as local as possible. Heck I have ordered caviar from Europe at $100+ an ounce.

I confused two different places. One in France and one in Canada. The business I'm thinking of duBreton is in Quebec. I see their products around here. Little high end though, IMO.

I agree. There are more farms and distributors around here than I thought. :cool2:

[Mister D]

Made my first trip to the market. I got two duBreton pork chops, some wild boar sausage, organic bacon, organic eggs, and some more Kerrygold butter.

[Peter1469]

Made my first trip to the market. I got two duBreton pork chops, some wild boar sausage, organic bacon, organic eggs, and some more Kerrygold butter.

Nice. I just ate my dinner of flat iron steak (very rare and grass fed) with couscous. And had a salad for greens at the bar earlier (they have very fresh salads).

[Common]

Hate to tell you guys this but everyone Im reading on WebMD and other credible sources say that organic foods are an unnecessary expense with no real health benefits. There are only a few foods that benefit greatly by being organic.

[Peter1469]

Hate to tell you guys this but everyone Im reading on WebMD and other credible sources say that organic foods are an unnecessary expense with no real health benefits. There are only a few foods that benefit greatly by being organic.

I agree that not all food needs to be organic to be more healthy. Buying local can be a better choice than buying organic that has to be shipped 1000 miles. A lot of what people like about organic, is the sustainable farming practices.

But a lot of those studies about health benefits are not scientific. There are clear nutritional differences between different farming techniques. For fruits and veggies a lot of it has to do with pesticide use- you know, the chemicals that you can't completely wash off.

[Mister D]

Hate to tell you guys this but everyone Im reading on WebMD and other credible sources say that organic foods are an unnecessary expense with no real health benefits. There are only a few foods that benefit greatly by being organic.

I don't buy the whole organic thing. It's a matter of ethics for me.

[Common]

I don't buy the whole organic thing. It's a matter of ethics for me.

Im trying to understand that Mr D. Ethics im assuming you mean the way the animals are killed ?

[Peter1469]

Im trying to understand that Mr D. Ethics im assuming you mean the way the animals are killed ?

No the way they live.

[Mister D]

Im trying to understand that Mr D. Ethics im assuming you mean the way the animals are killed ?

As Peter said, the way they are treated while they are alive. I have no moral issues with meat consumption. That's what we do. Dare I say, it's what God intended.

I will buy organic vegis if they are reasonably priced. In terms of meat, however, I do find the organic concept more plausible.

[Common]

As Peter said, the way they are treated while they are alive. I have no moral issues with meat consumption. That's what we do. Dare I say, it's what God intended.

I will buy organic vegis if they are reasonably priced. In terms of meat, however, I do find the organic concept more plausible.

Ok I understand your reasoning :) Im not so sure I find it totally reasonable since the end is the same.

[Peter1469]

Ok I understand your reasoning :) Im not so sure I find it totally reasonable since the end is the same.

I think that it is reasonable for two reasons. First humans ought to treat animals humanely. Stuffing them in tight quarters for their entire lives and then killing them for food is not humane. Second, stuffing them in tight quarters creates health problems for the animals and the people who eat them.

There are scientifically proven differences in food quality / safety between sustainable farming methods and commercial factory farming methods.

[Mister D]

Common I'm doing this as a Christian. If there are health benefits as Peter suggests that's just gravy (no pun intended :grin:).

[Common]

@Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659) I'm doing this as a Christian. If there are health benefits as Peter suggests that's just gravy (no pun intended :grin:).

Ah ok then Hats off to you Mr D :)

[Mister D]

I will try that wild boar sausage tomorrow. I hope I like it. I hate wasting food.

[Common]

I will try that wild boar sausage tomorrow. I hope I like it. I hate wasting food.

Im hoping its not real gamey tasting. Who knows it could turn out to be the best you have had

[Mister D]

Im hoping its not real gamey tasting. Who knows it could turn out to be the best you have had

I will definitively boil a little fat out first but it's much leaner than regular Italian sausage. Then I will fry it and get a slight crust.

[Common]

I will definitively boil a little fat out first but it's much leaner than regular Italian sausage. Then I will fry it and get a slight crust.

You better see how much fat is in it before you boil it. That may make it tough as nails. Boars dont have alot of fat like regular hogs

[Mister D]

You better see how much fat is in it before you boil it. That may make it tough as nails. Boars dont have alot of fat like regular hogs

Yeah, just for a minute. It has about half what regular pork sausage has.

[Common]

Yeah, just for a minute. It has about half what regular pork sausage has.

Do you have a turbo oven Mr D or a bbq grill

[Mister D]

Do you have a turbo oven Mr D

What is that? :huh:

[Common]

What is that? :huh:

Let me go search for a pic of mine. What a turbo oven is, is something you will be forever indebted to me for tell ing you about it lol...ill post a pic and where to get it etc

[Mister D]

I'm heading out to the bar. bbl this evening.

[Common]

http://www.wayfair.com/Morningware-Halo-Oven%C2%99-with-Extender-Ring-HO1200M-WR-MGW1001.html
If you look they have the other type shown also.

If you consider buying one do a search on Amazon its cheaper there and make sure it comes with the extender ring if youre cooking something bigger.
Ok lots to talk about, there are many of these on the market as cheap as 29.99 to 300.00. As far as I can tell they all cook pretty much the same I guess. The cheaper ones die fast as a rule these dont last a lifetime.
I have had 3 the first one died on a week sent it back got a different brand and that lasted a year and half and the timer broke.
Then I bought this one. This has a different design than other Halogen Turbo Ovens, this has a no Large deep heavy class bowl. As you can see it has like a glass tray with a large plastic dome that goes over it. I cook whole chickens, turkey breasts, pork roasts, Sausage comes out like on the grill. It TAKES GETTING USED TOO and you need to have a good meat thermometer for temperature checking. It is far cheaper to run than an electric stove and doenst make the whole kitchen hot in the summer. Does it cook faster hmmm not as fast as they say it does. It does cook faster though.
The rack that comes with it has a low side and reversed its up much closer to the element for cooking other things.
Both designs have their plus's and minus. If you buy the big glass bowl one. Its heavy and when you want to check temperature you have to be sure to have something to lay the top where the motor is that WONT BURN its a pain in the butt. They do sell big bowl ovens that have arms that you just lift the lid up like a mixer, they are expensive and very bulky.
This one comes with a little metal clip you just put under the unit and you can just tip the entire top back onto the clip an check your meat.
Let me give you a link to the thermometer I have, it was recommended best buy by Cooks magazine a model of the same brand that cost TONS was number one this one was number two. Its worth every penny I believe.

http://www.chefsresource.com/cdn--proaccurate-quick-read-thermometer.html

[sedan]

My wife smoked these earlier today ....



http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7963/014uk.jpg

[Common]

Whoa they look delicious, everyone should have a wife that bbqs like that lol

[Captain Obvious]

Nice

[Dr. Who]

My wife smoked these earlier today ....


http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7963/014uk.jpg


They look delicious.

[Rebel Son]

Hmm. Well since you say it's time to get serious about the moral issues related to this, let me pose this challenge to you, since you're on a positive track as things are: let's compare this to people's standards for human beings. If we were talking about people, most of us would tend to say that killing and eating someone would be a worse and more oppressive offense that exploiting their labor power one-sidedly for your benefit. (e.g. While the latter might often be legal, the former is always illegal vis-a-vis our own species in the modern world.) Why is this logic reversed in your mind when it comes to animals? Doesn't it seem more cruel and oppressive to have animals systematically killed for your consumption than simply to have their labor power exploited?


I'll pose this question to you. Conversation is a big factor in the preservation of wild life, would you rather herd control be implemented or would you rather see herds of deer die off from over population?

Same applies with livestock, I have rib eye's set our for the grill tonight.

[Mister D]

Boar sausage was good. A little tough (did I cook it right?) but that doesn't bother me much. Had it with eggs this morning.

[Peter1469]

Boar sausage was good. A little tough (did I cook it right?) but that doesn't bother me much. Had it with eggs this morning.

I have never cooked my own boar sausage, but at a nice restaurant. I am not sure what they do to keep it tender.

[Dr. Who]

Boar sausage was good. A little tough (did I cook it right?) but that doesn't bother me much. Had it with eggs this morning.Sounds like it was too lean. It is the fat content that makes sausage tender, or there has to be some kind of filler, like breadcrumbs to hold the moisture.

[Mister D]

I have never cooked my own boar sausage, but at a nice restaurant. I am not sure what they do to keep it tender.

Flavorful but tough. I really don't cook sausage often so I have no idea. I just looked at a sausage and peppers recipe. I'll try it that way. That's usually tender but pork sausage has twice the fat.

[Common]

Boar sausage was good. A little tough (did I cook it right?) but that doesn't bother me much. Had it with eggs this morning.

I wouldnt fry it D, I would grill it. If you dont want to do the turbo oven thing which does alot of thinks just like a grill. Get yourself a good stovetop grill pan and do the sausage on that. Its similar to frying but its more like grilling the sausage.

[Peter1469]

I wouldnt fry it D, I would grill it. If you dont want to do the turbo oven thing which does alot of thinks just like a grill. Get yourself a good stovetop grill pan and do the sausage on that. Its similar to frying but its more like grilling the sausage.

Good idea. You could also smoke it, but you need the equipment for that.

[Mister D]

Good suggestions.

[Common]

Good suggestions.

The key with cooking lean sausage like boar or venison is not to break the skin and let what little liquid it has in it out of the casing. So you dont want to fry it, if you get a grill pan and put it on medium heat and keep turning the sausage it will cook through without drying out as much. You have to be attentive when you cook anyway.

[Mister D]

Peter1469 what do you use for ground pork? All the humane/organic pork I've found is ridiculously lean and unsuitable for chop meat. I'd like to make some meatballs and you do not make meatballs without pork. It's a rule.

[Peter1469]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) what do you use for ground pork? All the humane/organic pork I've found is ridiculously lean and unsuitable for chop meat. I'd like to make some meatballs and you do not make meatballs without pork. It's a rule.I rarely eat pork these days. The only place that I have bought ground pork in years is a local farmers market.

[Mister D]

I rarely eat pork these days. The only place that I have bought ground pork in years is a local farmers market.

I may have to rely on beef fat then. The grass fed has enough. I could always have some chops ground for the pork flavor. It used to e the other way around. The pork would have more fat and the beef would be lean.

[Mister D]

I like my swine. :smiley:

[Dr. Who]

@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) what do you use for ground pork? All the humane/organic pork I've found is ridiculously lean and unsuitable for chop meat. I'd like to make some meatballs and you do not make meatballs without pork. It's a rule.If you can't find an appropriate source of ground pork, buy yourself a meat grinder. They aren't that expensive and you will know exactly what's in your ground pork. In fact you can grind multiple meats together.

[Mister D]

If you can't find an appropriate source of ground pork, buy yourself a meat grinder. They aren't that expensive and you will know exactly what's in your ground pork. In fact you can grind multiple meats together.

That's the thing. I would just ask my butcher to ground whatever chops I bought but they are too lean.

[Peter1469]

That's the thing. I would just ask my butcher to ground whatever chops I bought but they are too lean.

I used to make meatloaf with a mix of meats- lamb and beef; lamb and pork, or all three.

[Mister D]

I used to make meatloaf with a mix of meats- lamb and beef; lamb and pork, or all three.

I go 50% beef and 50% pork for meatballs. Veal is a waste, IMO. It's also probably also off the humane menu. :undecided:

I haven't made meatloaf in ages.

[Peter1469]

I go 50% beef and 50% pork for meatballs. Veal is a waste, IMO. It's also probably also off the humane menu. :undecided:

I haven't made meatloaf in ages.

I don't eat veal. I never really liked it.

[Mister D]

I don't eat veal. I never really liked it.

IMO, it's just not worth the price. It's good but not that good.

[Dr. Who]

That's the thing. I would just ask my butcher to ground whatever chops I bought but they are too lean.The butcher should have trimmings from roasts etc. Ask for him to include a certain percentage of fat in the grind. (make sure he weighs before he adds the fat). I can even get fat trimmings from the butcher at my grocery store.

[Peter1469]

IMO, it's just not worth the price. It's good but not that good.

Like Kobe beef from Japan- doesn't taste right.

[oceanloverOH]

I used to make meatloaf with a mix of meats- lamb and beef; lamb and pork, or all three.

I do that.....I mix extra-lean ground beef and ground mild italian sausage for my spaghetti.