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View Full Version : Judge Orders Doctors To Pump Prisoner's Stomach, Doctors Tell Judge To Piss Off



Chris
08-16-2013, 10:36 AM
Judge Orders Doctors To Pump Prisoner's Stomach, Doctors Tell Judge To Piss Off (http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/15/judge-orders-doctors-to-pump-prisoners-s)


...But what if the warrant requires evidence to be gathered in a way that necessitates the skills of trained professionals? And what if those conscripted professionals find the ordered procedures unethical and abhorrent? And then they...refuse?

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:


Milwaukee police officers who were chasing Terrance Fleetwood last winter were sure they saw him swallow a bag of suspected cocaine.

So sure, they persuaded a judge to sign a search warrant to perform a surgical procedure on Fleetwood to retrieve the suspected contraband by sucking it from his stomach up through his nose.

The case came to light this month when the search warrant was finally filed.

Fleetwood's attorney, Bridget Boyle, said it was the first and only time she's ever seen police seek, and get, a warrant to have something as serious as nasogastric aspiration done to get evidence from a suspect.

"Thankfully, the doctors refused to do it," Boyle said recently.

Instead of examining the pumped contents of Fleetwood's stomach, police had to content themselves with staking out his hospital bed at the Aurora Sinai Medical Center for five days, to no avail. Ultimately, Fleetwood pled guilty to two counts of obstructing justice, and was sentenced to 18 months, with credit for 118 days....


There is some scatalogical humor in the way the story reads, two counts of obstructing, one the swallowing, the second the constipation--good Lord, five days!


Bet there is also a serious question. The law says the doctor must act, but ethics says he must not.

Is justice served by law or ethics/morals?

roadmaster
08-17-2013, 11:16 AM
The police have no right to tell a Dr. to pump his stomach. In fact a Dr. doesn't have to tell them anything.

fyrenza
08-17-2013, 01:17 PM
I'm real betwixt and between here ...

Nasogastric aspiration is a simple, easy and SAFE proceedure,

and even though considered mildly invasive,

truck drivers involved in traffic accidents are FORCED to have blood tests,
JUST IN ORDER TO PROVE THEIR INNOCENCE,
for they are considered Guilty until PROVEN innocent.

If the standard is in place, anywhere, for some reason,
it can be used anywhere, for the same reason.

And I'm sorry, but I still basically trust our police(wo)men,
and believe that them witnessing the suspect swallowing something, while being chased,
is a good Probable Cause for SEARCH.

BUT,

I'm pretty sure that y'all are going to skool me ...

Chris
08-17-2013, 01:21 PM
It's a dilemma for which there seems no easy solution.

roadmaster
08-17-2013, 04:36 PM
truck drivers involved in traffic accidents are FORCED to have blood tests,
JUST IN ORDER TO PROVE THEIR INNOCENCE,
for they are considered Guilty until PROVEN innocent.

Actually, they can do a breathalyzer if the man consents. The Dr. doesn't have to tell the police anything. The truck driver can still loose his job for not providing information especially if he signed an agreement but the police can't make the Dr. do anything. Now if you are not guilty a blood test can prove you weren't drinking. The problem is if they can smell alcohol on the person he most likely will be found guilty if he asked for the test and it's over the limit.

fyrenza
08-17-2013, 07:21 PM
I've really got to wonder about that, because they can be prosecuted for refusal,

so ... oh. Well, but, yeah, no one can MAKE a doctor force a patient to incriminate him/her-self,

but since the whole thing goes against any actual logic,

it occurs to me that you could find someone to advocate for it, and change the law,

especially if the gov starts owning the hospitals.

fyrenza
08-17-2013, 07:27 PM
(sorry about this,)

... but if refusal is considered nolo contrende, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,

you, the accused, really have no choice.

jillian
08-17-2013, 09:16 PM
The police have no right to tell a Dr. to pump his stomach. In fact a Dr. doesn't have to tell them anything.

but the judge has the right and power to order it.

Chris
08-18-2013, 08:33 AM
but the judge has the right and power to order it.

And the doctor his hippocratic oath.

You keep arguing legal positivism (except when you don't like the law). What is moral, ethical, right, is not determined by law.

metheron
08-18-2013, 09:37 AM
Is there any other instance where a judge orders an unwilling person not involved in a legal preocess to do something? I mean the doctors aren't on trial here and they don't want to do it.

My personal opinion....the judge can say that a doctor doing this is legal and the jail/police can ask that it be done to provide evidence, but a doctor, sworn to his oath has every right to refuse.

Matty
08-24-2013, 11:40 AM
It's a dilemma for which there seems no easy solution.
I have an easy solution put a bottle of Ipecac in his water. Dehydrate him and then give him the water.

Chris
08-24-2013, 12:07 PM
I have an easy solution put a bottle of Ipecac in his water. Dehydrate him and then give him the water.

Case solved. But I'm sure someone would cry cruel and unusual punishment.