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Carlsen
08-22-2013, 02:47 PM
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QUESTON:

It IS NOT necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values.



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Chris
08-22-2013, 03:49 PM
No.

Dr. Who
08-22-2013, 04:24 PM
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QUESTON:

It IS NOT necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values.



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Actually that is a statement. I agree it is not necessary.

TheDictator
08-30-2013, 11:13 AM
Yes, your right, but it is necessary to believe in God to be saved and go to Heaven. Lot of Good people with good values are in Hell right now and will be going there when they die.

It all not necessary to have good morals to be a good person in today's standards. You only have to obey the law to be a good person.

Chris
08-30-2013, 11:21 AM
Yes, your right, but it is necessary to believe in God to be saved and go to Heaven. Lot of Good people with good values are in Hell right now and will be going there when they die.

It all not necessary to have good morals to be a good person in today's standards. You only have to obey the law to be a good person.



That's a legal positivistic stance. It dead ends in moral relativism.

Ravi
08-30-2013, 11:38 AM
People that don't believe in God and have good morals are better than those that have good morals because they fear God.

Chris
08-30-2013, 11:53 AM
People that don't believe in God and have good morals are better than those that have good morals because they fear God.



And what if they have the same morals, marie?

TheDictator
09-01-2013, 05:19 PM
That's a legal positivistic stance. It dead ends in moral relativism.

Yes, and moral relativism is what a lot of Americans believe that is how you get gay marriage.

TheDictator
09-01-2013, 05:22 PM
People that don't believe in God and have good morals are better than those that have good morals because they fear God.

Really, in what way are they better? and what Christians who do not fear God but Love him and have good morals are better?

KC
09-01-2013, 05:23 PM
Yes, and moral relativism is what a lot of Americans believe that is how you get gay marriage.

Gay marriage is a political and not a religious issue. It is logical to support legalization while still having religious objections to gay marriage.

TheDictator
09-01-2013, 05:38 PM
Gay marriage is a political and not a religious issue. It is logical to support legalization while still having religious objections to gay marriage.

No Homosexuality is a Religious moral issue that became a political one.

KC
09-01-2013, 05:42 PM
No Homosexuality is a Religious moral issue that became a political one.

Whether or not to legalize something is a legal issue, not a religious one. While there is a religious dimension to it, the decision to give or not to give gay marriage legal status is a political one.

Guerilla
09-01-2013, 05:46 PM
it is necessary to believe in God to be saved and go to Heaven. Lot of Good people with good values are in Hell right now and will be going there when they die.
That's my biggest reason for deciding to not be a Christian like the rest of my family. How could god send a good person with good morals to hell? I prefer to not believe in a god that seems to be so egotistical that he'd send you to hell for not believing in him.

It makes it seem like believing in Him is more important than being a good person, which is some bullshit, if that's indeed what's intended. A god I would choose to worship wouldn't think my worship is more important than if I'm a good person, you know?

For the Christians out there, is there something I'm missing or misinterpreting?

TheDictator
09-01-2013, 05:53 PM
Ok, question of Homosexuality being a sin and Morally wrong is Religious. The question of it being legal is a political. Just like murder is both legal and Religious.

Chris
09-01-2013, 06:57 PM
Yes, and moral relativism is what a lot of Americans believe that is how you get gay marriage.


As a religious issue, that's none of government's concern. You may belong to a religious group that rejects it, that's fine, just as my not rejecting for others.

What I was getting at was "You only have to obey the law to be a good person" being legal positivism, obedience to man's law.

Chris
09-01-2013, 06:58 PM
No Homosexuality is a Religious moral issue that became a political one.



True, both sides try to politicize it.

Mr Happy
09-01-2013, 07:01 PM
Yes, your right, but it is necessary to believe in God to be saved and go to Heaven. Lot of Good people with good values are in Hell right now and will be going there when they die.

It all not necessary to have good morals to be a good person in today's standards. You only have to obey the law to be a good person.

Nobody is in hell because hell doesn't exist. Hell, not even in the bible does it exist....

jillian
09-01-2013, 07:04 PM
Yes, your right, but it is necessary to believe in God to be saved and go to Heaven. Lot of Good people with good values are in Hell right now and will be going there when they die.

It all not necessary to have good morals to be a good person in today's standards. You only have to obey the law to be a good person.

there is no such thing as hell. and no G-d who was worth anything would consign his children to hell for believing in a different manner of worship.that's absurd. and i refuse to have anything to do with such a G-d.

you'd actually have to think G-d hates his own children to believe what you do.

Chris
09-01-2013, 07:18 PM
there is no such thing as hell. and no G-d who was worth anything would consign his children to hell for believing in a different manner of worship.that's absurd. and i refuse to have anything to do with such a G-d.

you'd actually have to think G-d hates his own children to believe what you do.



That seems to be another overused meme around here, liberals like jillian projecting their own hate on others and even God. The arrogance of man defining God is absurd.

jillian
09-01-2013, 07:19 PM
That seems to be another overused meme around here, liberals like jillian projecting their own hate on others and even God. The arrogance of man defining God is absurd.

what hate on my part?

some loon tells us that anyone who doesn't believe what he does is going to hell and i'm the one who hates?

lmao...

poor dear, keep on projecting, mr pretend libertarian.

Chris
09-01-2013, 07:28 PM
what hate on my part?

some loon tells us that anyone who doesn't believe what he does is going to hell and i'm the one who hates?

lmao...

poor dear, keep on projecting, mr pretend libertarian.



The hate you constantly project on others, the hate that seethes from your every posted word.



some loon tells us that anyone who doesn't believe what he does is going to hell and i'm the one who hates?

Aren't you doing the same in rejecting what others believe and claiming you personally get to define God for them?

Ravi
09-01-2013, 07:42 PM
Really, in what way are they better? and what Christians who do not fear God but Love him and have good morals are better?
Because they have a moral compass and aren't good out of fear of punishment.

Chris
09-01-2013, 07:45 PM
Because they have a moral compass and aren't good out of fear of punishment.



Can you tell us anything about this moral compass, marie, what is it, where does it come from, on what does it depend, what's its basis.

Chloe
09-01-2013, 08:18 PM
In my opinion, no, it is not necessary to believe in God in order to have morals or good values. People can be inspired though by their particular religion or belief in order to do good things and have good values I think.

Chloe
09-01-2013, 08:27 PM
Really, in what way are they better? and what Christians who do not fear God but Love him and have good morals are better?

Would you admit though that there is a level of fear that goes along with Christian belief? I'm not picking on Christianity since a lot of faiths have similar fear tactics in my opinion, but this is pretty much about Christianity so that's why I am asking. "Fear tactics" is a strong term I know but I can't think of any other way of saying it. Christians may love God sure but do they love him unconditionally? The prospect of going to hell for not believing in God or even lacking in faith that he may exist seems to make Christian love for God to be a conditional love in my opinion. Am I wrong?

Chris
09-01-2013, 09:22 PM
In my opinion, no, it is not necessary to believe in God in order to have morals or good values. People can be inspired though by their particular religion or belief in order to do good things and have good values I think.



I agree. But what then inspires, what then is the basis of morality?

countryboy
09-01-2013, 09:25 PM
People that don't believe in God and have good morals are better than those that have good morals because they fear God.
In other words, atheistic libs are better people than conservative Christians. I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YA, that you would make such an assertion. :rolleyes:

jillian
09-01-2013, 09:30 PM
In other words, atheistic libs are better people than conservative Christians. I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YA, that you would make such an assertion. :rolleyes:

what percentage of "libs" do you think are atheists?

i love the people who think only the radical religious right believes in G-d.

I particularly love the wingers who think they have a lock on morality.... while they vote to cut off food for children.

countryboy
09-01-2013, 09:31 PM
That's my biggest reason for deciding to not be a Christian like the rest of my family. How could god send a good person with good morals to hell? I prefer to not believe in a god that seems to be so egotistical that he'd send you to hell for not believing in him.

It makes it seem like believing in Him is more important than being a good person, which is some bullshit, if that's indeed what's intended. A god I would choose to worship wouldn't think my worship is more important than if I'm a good person, you know?

For the Christians out there, is there something I'm missing or misinterpreting?

Why would a loving God force you, against your will, to live in His presence for eternity?

countryboy
09-01-2013, 09:38 PM
what percentage of "libs" do you think are atheists?

i love the people who think only the radical religious right believes in G-d.

I particularly love the wingers who think they have a lock on morality.... while they vote to cut off food for children.
Once again a lib has to resort to making shit up, in a feeble attempt to advance an agenda. SHOCKING!!!!!! :yawn:

jillian
09-01-2013, 09:43 PM
Once again a lib has to resort to making shit up, in a feeble attempt to advance an agenda. SHOCKING!!!!!! :yawn:

tissue?

countryboy
09-01-2013, 09:44 PM
tissue?
Lithium?

Chris
09-01-2013, 11:01 PM
tissue?

Why would he need a tissue for exposing your making things up? Couldn't you make up one of your usual inflammatory remarks?

Guerilla
09-01-2013, 11:39 PM
Why would a loving God force you, against your will, to live in His presence for eternity?

Is this a rhetorical question? I'm sorry, I don't know if I got the underlying point. Are you saying that if you don't believe in him, that implies that you don't want to be in heaven with him?

Isn't this same loving god forcing good people, against their will, to live in a hell that they also don't believe in, for eternity?

countryboy
09-02-2013, 10:06 AM
Is this a rhetorical question? I'm sorry, I don't know if I got the underlying point. Are you saying that if you don't believe in him, that implies that you don't want to be in heaven with him?

Isn't this same loving god forcing good people, against their will, to live in a hell that they also don't believe in, for eternity?
He's not forcing you to be eternally separated from Him. That's your choice.

Lemme see if I understand what you are trying to convey. You want to spend eternity in a heaven you don't believe exists, with a God you don't believe exists? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

Chris
09-02-2013, 10:13 AM
He's not forcing you to be eternally separated from Him. That's your choice.

Lemme see if I understand what you are trying to convey. You want to spend eternity in a heaven you don't believe exists, with a God you don't believe exists? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me.



Agree, it is a choice. We can't know or prove God, we're too flawed, imperfect. So some choose to have faith and some don't. For me, an agnostic atheist, reason blocks faith, if I cannot know Who to place faith in, I cannot find faith.

But that's my struggle, not an incrimination of those who have faith. I just don't understand animosity toward belief. If people would respect other's choices perhaps their choice would be respected reciprocally.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 10:40 AM
what percentage of "libs" do you think are atheists?

i love the people who think only the radical religious right believes in G-d.

I particularly love the wingers who think they have a lock on morality.... while they vote to cut off food for children.

The "radical religious right" is a figment of your Jewish imagination.

Agravan
09-02-2013, 10:47 AM
As a religious issue, that's none of government's concern. You may belong to a religious group that rejects it, that's fine, just as my not rejecting for others.

What I was getting at was "You only have to obey the law to be a good person" being legal positivism, obedience to man's law.

But if the law says I must kill innocent children, and I obey it, am I still a good person??

Chris
09-02-2013, 10:48 AM
But if the law says I must kill innocent children, and I obey it, am I still a good person??

No, then the law itself is morally wrong.

Agravan
09-02-2013, 10:49 AM
what hate on my part?

some loon tells us that anyone who doesn't believe what he does is going to hell and i'm the one who hates?

lmao...

poor dear, keep on projecting, mr pretend libertarian.

The hatred that prevents you and your kind from even typing the word "God" correctly. The shame you feel in even mentioning His name is nothing but hatred on your part.

jillian
09-02-2013, 10:51 AM
The hatred that prevents you and your kind from even typing the word "God" correctly. The shame you feel in even mentioning His name is nothing but hatred on your part.

er...given your extreme lack of knowledge on ANY subject, i can't say i'm shocked at your complete lack of knowledge on this one. MY religion dictates we not write the name of G-d as a sign of respect.

now say you're sorry and run along.

Agravan
09-02-2013, 10:51 AM
what percentage of "libs" do you think are atheists?

i love the people who think only the radical religious right believes in G-d.

I particularly love the wingers who think they have a lock on morality.... while they vote to cut off food for children.

We don't believe in G-d, we believe in GOD.

Agravan
09-02-2013, 10:54 AM
er...given your extreme lack of knowledge on ANY subject, i can't say i'm shocked at your complete lack of knowledge on this one. MY religion dictates we not write the name of G-d as a sign of respect.

now say you're sorry and run along.

I don't apologize for not being ashamed or afraid to say GOD. And I certainly don't apologize to the likes of you.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 11:06 AM
The hatred that prevents you and your kind from even typing the word "God" correctly. The shame you feel in even mentioning His name is nothing but hatred on your part.
Actually, to be fair, that's a Jewish thing.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 11:07 AM
er...given your extreme lack of knowledge on ANY subject, i can't say i'm shocked at your complete lack of knowledge on this one. MY religion dictates we not write the name of G-d as a sign of respect.

now say you're sorry and run along.
Does your religion also dictate you explain your doctrines in a snide, disrespectful way?

Mister D
09-02-2013, 11:08 AM
Does your religion also dictate you explain your doctrines in a snide, disrespectful way?

:grin:

countryboy
09-02-2013, 11:10 AM
We don't believe in G-d, we believe in GOD.
Jewish people also believe in God. But some Jewish denominations believe it to be disrespectful to write the name of God where it will not be preserved. Actually, I personally don't think that applies here, since posts are almost never deleted. But I suppose if one wants to be legalistic about it, there is a slight possibility.

Chris
09-02-2013, 11:11 AM
Does your religion also dictate you explain your doctrines in a snide, disrespectful way?



Er, what explanation? I see just snide disrespect, and hate.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 11:16 AM
Er, what explanation? I see just snide disrespect, and hate.


MY religion dictates we not write the name of G-d as a sign of respect.

In a way, you're not wrong. It was a feeble attempt at explanation. And, not really even accurate.

Agravan
09-02-2013, 11:20 AM
In a way, you're not wrong. It was a feeble attempt at explanation. And, not really even accurate.

Don't you think it's funny that when she defends her religious doctrine, she's not a far-left religious nut, but when we defend ours, we're all right wing religious nuts?

Chris
09-02-2013, 11:22 AM
In a way, you're not wrong. It was a feeble attempt at explanation. And, not really even accurate.



Your explanation was much better.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 11:24 AM
Don't you think it's funny that when she defends her religious doctrine, she's not a far-left religious nut, but when we defend ours, we're all right wing religious nuts?

no, it's repulsive. And they wonder why...

countryboy
09-02-2013, 11:30 AM
Don't you think it's funny that when she defends her religious doctrine, she's not a far-left religious nut, but when we defend ours, we're all right wing religious nuts?
No, I don't think it's funny at all. But I get your point.

As an aside, as Christians, we are commanded to provide answers for the truth that lies within, with gentleness and respect. We don't always live up to that, myself included.

Guerilla
09-02-2013, 04:00 PM
He's not forcing you to be eternally separated from Him. That's your choice.

Lemme see if I understand what you are trying to convey. You want to spend eternity in a heaven you don't believe exists, with a God you don't believe exists? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

He may not be forcing you to stay eternally separated from Him, but it's not really about what you decide to choose either, because I also choose not to believe in satan, yet he would force me to live with that guy for eternity? That's what just doesn't make sense to me. It seems somewhat spiteful, which is a character flaw that someone like god shouldn't have, imo. At least not a god that I'd worship.

It's not that I want to spend eternity in a place I don't believe, but if it is real, their are only two possible places to go, belief or not, and if I'm a good person,I don't see the reasoning behind why I should be sent to hell. You justify it by saying I don't believe in heaven. But does that really mean I should be sent to hell because I didn't believe in hell either. Therefore I should still have access to heaven because I was a good person. Prior knowledge of heaven should be irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Carlsen
09-02-2013, 04:05 PM
No, I don't think it's funny at all. But I get your point.

As an aside, as Christians, we are commanded to provide answers for the truth that lies within, with gentleness and respect. We don't always live up to that, myself included.
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it is to late to be gentleness and respect. many people do not feel safe in there country because of to many immigrant with different culture and religion. :angry:

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countryboy
09-02-2013, 04:13 PM
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it is to late to be gentleness and respect. many people do not feel safe in there country because of to many immigrant with different culture and religion. :angry:

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So you don't believe in the Bible?

Chloe
09-02-2013, 04:15 PM
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it is to late to be gentleness and respect. many people do not feel safe in there country because of to many immigrant with different culture and religion. :angry:

.

If someone doesn't feel safe because of someone else's religion then that's really their own flaw that they need to take care of internally. I'm Jewish and I feel perfectly safe living surrounded by Christians and other religions. If I had a Christian neighbor, a Muslim neighbor, a Hindu neighbor, and an atheist neighbor with some of them being immigrants I'd still feel safe. I'd probably feel less safe living next to a paranoid person that thinks that anybody different from them is somehow dangerous.

Carlsen
09-02-2013, 04:26 PM
So you don't believe in the Bible?

I believe in some things in the bible

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countryboy
09-02-2013, 04:28 PM
I believe in some things in the bible

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You pick and choose the parts you like? Why bother?

Carlsen
09-02-2013, 04:33 PM
If someone doesn't feel safe because of someone else's religion then that's really their own flaw that they need to take care of internally. I'm Jewish and I feel perfectly safe living surrounded by Christians and other religions. If I had a Christian neighbor, a Muslim neighbor, a Hindu neighbor, and an atheist neighbor with some of them being immigrants I'd still feel safe. I'd probably feel less safe living next to a paranoid person that thinks that anybody different from them is somehow dangerous.

people with different religion don't bother me and this include the muslim. I don't want them to live next to me.

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Carlsen
09-02-2013, 04:39 PM
You pick and choose the parts you like? Why bother?

the ministerium verksamhet I like to study Jesus life when he talk about kingdom of God. the other stuff it is difficult to understand this.

Chloe
09-02-2013, 04:49 PM
people with different religion don't bother me and this include the muslim. I don't want them to live next to me.

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Why? What exactly are you afraid of?

Mister D
09-02-2013, 04:55 PM
Why? What exactly are you afraid of?

Social conflict, I'd imagine. Little good comes from it.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 04:57 PM
So you don't believe in the Bible?

The Bible tells me to love my neighbor not to give him my country.

Chloe
09-02-2013, 04:59 PM
Social conflict, I'd imagine. Little good comes from it.

A neighborhood street of something like 20 houses with 8 of those houses being a different religion other than Christianity would not lead to social conflict unless someone actively sought it out or instigated it. I'd be willing to put money on it that the majority of neighborhoods with more than one faith represented in that neighborhood are just as safe as any other neighborhood. Paranoia can be more dangerous than reality sometimes.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 05:05 PM
A neighborhood street of something like 20 houses with 8 of those houses being a different religion other than Christianity would not lead to social conflict unless someone actively sought it out or instigated it. I'd be willing to put money on it that the majority of neighborhoods with more than one faith represented in that neighborhood are just as safe as any other neighborhood. Paranoia can be more dangerous than reality sometimes.

Large numbers of migrants (different race, religion etc.) eventually do lead to social conflict and already have in a wide variety of places. Carl is like most Europeans and like most of humanity for that matter. It's not appreciated. Just deal with it. Humanity is what it is.

Agravan
09-02-2013, 05:29 PM
He may not be forcing you to stay eternally separated from Him, but it's not really about what you decide to choose either, because I also choose not to believe in satan, yet he would force me to live with that guy for eternity? That's what just doesn't make sense to me. It seems somewhat spiteful, which is a character flaw that someone like god shouldn't have, imo. At least not a god that I'd worship.

It's not that I want to spend eternity in a place I don't believe, but if it is real, their are only two possible places to go, belief or not, and if I'm a good person,I don't see the reasoning behind why I should be sent to hell. You justify it by saying I don't believe in heaven. But does that really mean I should be sent to hell because I didn't believe in hell either. Therefore I should still have access to heaven because I was a good person. Prior knowledge of heaven should be irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

According to the words of Jesus, the only way to Heaven is thru him. You must accept Jesus into your heart in order to go to Heaven. This is what we are taught. What you are taught may be different.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6 ESV)

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 06:03 PM
That's my biggest reason for deciding to not be a Christian like the rest of my family. How could god send a good person with good morals to hell? I prefer to not believe in a god that seems to be so egotistical that he'd send you to hell for not believing in him.

It makes it seem like believing in Him is more important than being a good person, which is some bullshit, if that's indeed what's intended. A god I would choose to worship wouldn't think my worship is more important than if I'm a good person, you know?

For the Christians out there, is there something I'm missing or misinterpreting?

Yes, Belief is only one step in being a Christian, The first step, much more comes after that.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 06:07 PM
Nobody is in hell because hell doesn't exist. Hell, not even in the bible does it exist....

You do not know what you are talking about.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 06:13 PM
Does your religion also dictate you explain your doctrines in a snide, disrespectful way?

Hey, when in Rome.....

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 06:14 PM
Because they have a moral compass and aren't good out of fear of punishment.

Well, I do not know any Christians who are Christians because they fear going to hell. I do know people who have good morals because they fear man and his systems, and they are Liberals.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 06:15 PM
You pick and choose the parts you like? Why bother?

Why not? Who says the bible is correct. Read a couple of books - Misquoting Jesus and Jesus Interrupted. The number of contradictions in the bible is mind-boggling. Mind you it is a tome written by man in Greek and translated many times over. Only an idiot would take the thing literally...

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 06:16 PM
You do not know what you are talking about.

Name the passages in the bible where hell is mentioned...

jillian
09-02-2013, 06:40 PM
Does your religion also dictate you explain your doctrines in a snide, disrespectful way?

why would i be respectful of someone who addressed me like that? that's absurd.

lmao.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 06:42 PM
Would you admit though that there is a level of fear that goes along with Christian belief? I'm not picking on Christianity since a lot of faiths have similar fear tactics in my opinion, but this is pretty much about Christianity so that's why I am asking. "Fear tactics" is a strong term I know but I can't think of any other way of saying it. Christians may love God sure but do they love him unconditionally? The prospect of going to hell for not believing in God or even lacking in faith that he may exist seems to make Christian love for God to be a conditional love in my opinion. Am I wrong?

Christian do not have to fear Hell, it not for us, it is for all forms of evil, Christians have been washed by the very blood of God. For Christians hell is not an issue, we are not going there, but we do have those who we love that are going there so we do are best to change that. Hell has nothing to do with Christianity other than God said it exist. Jesus Christ paid the way out Hell for Christians, All my sin are paid for past, present and Future. Christian have no fear of hell because it has nothing to do with us.

jillian
09-02-2013, 06:43 PM
Christian do not have to fear Hell, it not for us, it is for all forms of evil, Christians have been washed by the very blood of God. For Christians hell is not an issue, we are not going there, but we do have those who we love that are going there so we do are best to change that. Hell has nothing to do with Christianity other than God said it exist. Jesus Christ paid the way out Hell for Christians, All my sin are paid for past, present and Future. Christian have no fear of hell because it has nothing to do with us.

yah.. fire and brimstone have nothing to do with fear.... okie dokie.. .

threats of hell have nothing to do with instilling fear.... suuuuuuuuure they don't.

jillian
09-02-2013, 06:44 PM
You pick and choose the parts you like? Why bother?

like you choose parts of leviticus yet reject the most essential parts?

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 06:46 PM
Why would a loving God force you, against your will, to live in His presence for eternity?

He would not.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 06:52 PM
like you choose parts of leviticus yet reject the most essential parts?

Pssst...Leviticus is for Jews. Like you. Why do you pick and choose what parts you reject?

Mister D
09-02-2013, 06:53 PM
yah.. fire and brimstone have nothing to do with fear.... okie dokie.. .

threats of hell have nothing to do with instilling fear.... suuuuuuuuure they don't.

How do you explain that as a Jew? You do realize it's derived from Hebrew Scripture? Hmmmm...I suppose not. Well, okie dokie, bubala. lol :grin:

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 06:54 PM
Is this a rhetorical question? I'm sorry, I don't know if I got the underlying point. Are you saying that if you don't believe in him, that implies that you don't want to be in heaven with him? Yes, they have made a choice not to be with God.

Isn't this same loving god forcing good people, against their will, to live in a hell that they also don't believe in, for eternity? No because they made a choice not to be with God.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 07:00 PM
Agree, it is a choice. We can't know or prove God, we're too flawed, imperfect. So some choose to have faith and some don't. For me, an agnostic atheist, reason blocks faith, if I cannot know Who to place faith in, I cannot find faith.

But that's my struggle, not an incrimination of those who have faith. I just don't understand animosity toward belief. If people would respect other's choices perhaps their choice would be respected reciprocally.

I respect a person's choice to not be a Christian, it not a problem with me, but don't ask me to believe if your wrong that you will be in heaven with me. Sorry but the choice was made.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 07:07 PM
We don't believe in G-d, we believe in GOD.

The G-d of the Jews, are also the God of Christians. Jesus Christ was a Jew, it would do you some good to show respect.

Chris
09-02-2013, 07:10 PM
I respect a person's choice to not be a Christian, it not a problem with me, but don't ask me to believe if your wrong that you will be in heaven with me. Sorry but the choice was made.



Ah, yes, Pascal's Wager. What if you picked the wrong God? What if God, as Jefferson put it, respects more my homage of reason in questioning His existence?

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 07:14 PM
He may not be forcing you to stay eternally separated from Him, but it's not really about what you decide to choose either, because I also choose not to believe in satan, yet he would force me to live with that guy for eternity? That's what just doesn't make sense to me. It seems somewhat spiteful, which is a character flaw that someone like god shouldn't have, imo. At least not a god that I'd worship.

It's not that I want to spend eternity in a place I don't believe, but if it is real, their are only two possible places to go, belief or not, and if I'm a good person,I don't see the reasoning behind why I should be sent to hell. You justify it by saying I don't believe in heaven. But does that really mean I should be sent to hell because I didn't believe in hell either. Therefore I should still have access to heaven because I was a good person. Prior knowledge of heaven should be irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Sin sends everyone to hell ( you only need one sin to go ) Jesus Christ who is God paid the price out of Hell for those who believe in him.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 07:17 PM
Sin sends everyone to hell ( you only need one sin to go ) Jesus Christ who is God paid the price out of Hell for those who believe in him.

you've got it bad ain't ya...

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 07:19 PM
there is no such thing as hell. and no G-d who was worth anything would consign his children to hell for believing in a different manner of worship.that's absurd. and i refuse to have anything to do with such a G-d.

you'd actually have to think G-d hates his own children to believe what you do.the problem is that mankind was born as damaged goods (sin). A righteous God will not allow a person who died in their sins to enter into Heaven. This is why there was a need for a Savior. That is the ONLY way that a person can truly enter into Heaven. (Jn 14:6)

jillian
09-02-2013, 07:19 PM
Sin sends everyone to hell ( you only need one sin to go ) Jesus Christ who is God paid the price out of Hell for those who believe in him.

not in my religion. don't you get that? what you believe is nothing more than what *you* believe and has no more validity than what anyone else believes or doesn't believe.

jillian
09-02-2013, 07:21 PM
the problem is that mankind was born as damaged goods (sin). A righteous God will not allow a person who died in their sins to enter into Heaven. This is why there was a need for a Savior. That is the ONLY way that a person can truly enter into Heaven. (Jn 14:6)

yeah, i know christians believe that.

i don't. in fact, i find it absurd to think G-d would create anything imperfect.

you all came along after what, 3,000 years and decided that we needed a 'savior'. the messiah was never supposed to be that kind of savior. he was always supposed to be a messianic king of the line of david...

well, until the romans got the story.

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 07:21 PM
not in my religion. don't you get that? what you believe is nothing more than what *you* believe and has no more validity than what anyone else believes or doesn't believe.Actually, you are wrong. The only meter that a faith is judged by is the Word of God. It doesn't matter what one believes. Even Satan himself believes. The difference is having a relationship with the living God of Creation (YHWH) and only through Christ's perfect sacrifice on the Cross.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 07:22 PM
the problem is that mankind was born as damaged goods (sin). A righteous God will not allow a person who died in their sins to enter into Heaven. This is why there was a need for a Savior. That is the ONLY way that a person can truly enter into Heaven. (Jn 14:6)

If you are a Christian...
Interesting folk lore....

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 07:23 PM
yeah, i know christians believe that.

i don't. in fact, i find it absurd to think G-d would create anything imperfect.

you all came along after what, 3,000 years and decided that we needed a 'savior'. the messiah was never supposed to be that kind of savior. he was always supposed to be a messianic king of the line of david...

well, until the romans got the story.And if you go back to the prophecies of the OT, you'll find that Christ fulfilled every one of them. Jesus Himself was from David's lineage.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 07:26 PM
Ah, yes, Pascal's Wager. What if you picked the wrong God? What if God, as Jefferson put it, respects more my homage of reason in questioning His existence?

That is up to God not me. I have to make my choice and live with it.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 07:27 PM
yeah, i know christians believe that.

i don't. in fact, i find it absurd to think G-d would create anything imperfect.

you all came along after what, 3,000 years and decided that we needed a 'savior'. the messiah was never supposed to be that kind of savior. he was always supposed to be a messianic king of the line of david...

well, until the romans got the story.

Jews believe they're perfect? Is it any wonder everyone hates you? :smiley:

Mister D
09-02-2013, 07:28 PM
If you are a Christian...
Interesting folk lore....

That's Jewish folklore, Shlomo. oi vey...:rollseyes:

Chris
09-02-2013, 07:29 PM
not in my religion. don't you get that? what you believe is nothing more than what *you* believe and has no more validity than what anyone else believes or doesn't believe.



Bottom line, you, jillian, are a moral relativist. To you there is no truth, no morals, no nothing.

Chloe
09-02-2013, 07:30 PM
And if you go back to the prophecies of the OT, you'll find that Christ fulfilled every one of them. Jesus Himself was from David's lineage.

No I'm sorry but he didn't really fulfill any of them from a Jewish point of view

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 07:30 PM
you've got it bad ain't ya...

Yes I have the love of God in my Heart really bad.

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 07:31 PM
Jews believe they're perfect? Is it any wonder everyone hates you? :smiley:Jillian also forgets that the Jewish Messiah is returning to take His rightful place as King of Kings.

Chris
09-02-2013, 07:32 PM
That is up to God not me. I have to make my choice and live with it.



Right, what I said earlier. We don't, can't know, but choose to believe or not. --We should respect each other's choices, whole idea behind liberty of conscience. Doesn't mean we need to embrace moral relativism like some.

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 07:32 PM
No I'm sorry but he didn't really fulfill any of them from a Jewish point of viewThat's because anyone but those who have accepted Christ are still blinded and dead.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 07:36 PM
he was always supposed to be a messianic king of the line of david...

well, until the romans got the story.


Yes, and that is just what Jesus Christ is, but your people put your King from the line of David to Death.

jillian
09-02-2013, 07:40 PM
Yes, and that is just what Jesus Christ is, but your people put your King from the line of David to Death.

he wasn't our king. he wasn't anyone's king. and he wasn't from the line of david. that was made up to try to make it look like he fulfilled the prophesies. he didn't. also, i don't see the temple rebuilt... or the thousand years of peace promised by the prophesies. do you?

and in case your grasp of facts needs refreshing... the romans put jeshua to death.

you're free to believe what you want. you're not free to demand others believe what you do.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 07:42 PM
he wasn't our king. he wasn't anyone's king. and he wasn't from the line of david. that was made up to try to make it look like he fulfilled the prophesies. he didn't. also, i don't see the temple rebuilt... or the thousand years of peace promised by the prophesies. do you?

and in case your grasp of facts needs refreshing... the romans put jeshua to death.

you're free to believe what you want. you're not free to demand others believe what you do.

What is it with your Jewish paranoia? He doesn't give a damn what you believe.

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 07:43 PM
he wasn't our king. he wasn't anyone's king. and he wasn't from the line of david. that was made up to try to make it look like he fulfilled the prophesies. he didn't. also, i don't see the temple rebuilt... or the thousand years of peace promised by the prophesies. do you?

and in case your grasp of facts needs refreshing... the romans put jeshua to death.

you're free to believe what you want. you're not free to demand others believe what you do.And when He returns and you find yourself before Him at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation Chapter 20, what excuse will you have for Him then?

Chris
09-02-2013, 07:45 PM
I've always liked this quotation from Lincoln even though I am not a believer: "Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right."

jillian
09-02-2013, 07:47 PM
And when He returns and you find yourself before Him at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation Chapter 20, what excuse will you have for Him then?

he was a jewish rabbi. he preached the return of israel to the jews...

the rest is faith.

and i'll take my chances that no G-d would demand an intermediary.

you know, jews have a concept of the righteous gentile. it's understood that people are judged by their deeds. i understand that you believe what you do. but in the end, it's only your faith versus my faith.

i'll stick with mine as i suspect you'll stick with yours.

but i certainly don't believe if you are innocent you are somehow tossed into hell by a
G-d who doesn't care that you lived a righteous life.

and i don't believe there's any such thing as hell.

Chris
09-02-2013, 07:50 PM
he was a jewish rabbi. he preached the return of israel to the jews...

the rest is faith.

and i'll take my chances that no G-d would demand an intermediary.

you know, jews have a concept of the righteous gentile. it's understood that people are judged by their deeds. i understand that you believe what you do. but in the end, it's only your faith versus my faith.

i'll stick with mine as i suspect you'll stick with yours.

but i certainly don't believe if you are innocent you are somehow tossed into hell by a
G-d who doesn't care that you lived a righteous life.

and i don't believe there's any such thing as hell.



Again, the audacity you believe you get to define God.



it's understood that people are judged by their deeds.

How do you think God judges your deeds on this forum? The personal attacks, the seething hate, the made up BS, the arrogance?

Chloe
09-02-2013, 07:54 PM
That's because anyone but those who have accepted Christ are still blinded and dead.

I was just saying that based on the criteria that Jews believe makes the messiah Jesus did not meet the criteria. That's not really about being blind or dead it's just simply about not meeting the criteria based on what we believe.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 07:56 PM
And when He returns and you find yourself before Him at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation Chapter 20, what excuse will you have for Him then?

I can talk me way out of it......

jillian
09-02-2013, 07:56 PM
That's because anyone but those who have accepted Christ are still blinded and dead.

in your belief....

which many many many of us disagree with.

Chloe
09-02-2013, 07:58 PM
And when He returns and you find yourself before Him at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation Chapter 20, what excuse will you have for Him then?

I know that you are asking Jillian but for me if that happened I wouldn't have an excuse. If he truly is God then I would hope that he would know how I lived my life before I died and that my beliefs weren't evil or bad. If in that situation he still judges me in the way that Christians believe he would then that would be that.

jillian
09-02-2013, 07:59 PM
I know that you are asking Jillian but for me if that happened I wouldn't have an excuse. If he truly is God then I would hope that he would know how I lived my life before I died and that my beliefs weren't evil or bad. If in that situation he still judges me in the way that Christians believe he would then that would be that.

everyone believes their way of worship is the only true way... .

or they'd worship differently

and just to bring it back to the opening question... i have known atheists who were far more moral than some of the self-professed religious types i have come across and some religious types who walk it like they talk it. morality can and does exist separate from any belief in G-d.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 08:06 PM
Name the passages in the bible where hell is mentioned...

Revelation 20:11-15
Matthew 5:21-22
Matthew 23:33

The Greek word geenna used in these passages means everlasting punishment.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:09 PM
Why not? Who says the bible is correct. Read a couple of books - Misquoting Jesus and Jesus Interrupted. The number of contradictions in the bible is mind-boggling. Mind you it is a tome written by man in Greek and translated many times over. Only an idiot would take the thing literally...
Only an idiot would buy into the atheistic haters claim of Biblical contradictions. You would first have to possess a mind to have it boggled. :wink:

It has been translated a few times, but not from previous translations. The extant Greek manuscripts far outnumber manuscripts of other books of antiquity. Why do you not rail against the inaccuracies of Homer, or Aristotle?

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:11 PM
why would i be respectful of someone who addressed me like that? that's absurd.

lmao.
Oh please, you are snide and disrespectful to anyone who disagrees with you. Unless they are a fellow traveler, of course.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 08:12 PM
he wasn't our king. he wasn't anyone's king. and he wasn't from the line of david. that was made up to try to make it look like he fulfilled the prophesies. he didn't. also, i don't see the temple rebuilt... or the thousand years of peace promised by the prophesies. do you?

and in case your grasp of facts needs refreshing... the romans put jeshua to death.

you're free to believe what you want. you're not free to demand others believe what you do.

I have not demanded anything from anyone. Stop lying and making stuff up.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:12 PM
like you choose parts of leviticus yet reject the most essential parts?

Please produce posts by me stating such or STFU.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:13 PM
The Bible tells me to love my neighbor not to give him my country.
I agree, that's not what I was referring to.

jillian
09-02-2013, 08:16 PM
Please produce posts by me stating such or STFU.

no. i don't think i will... and curb your tongue.

you mean to tell me you're not one of the homophobes who think gays are an abomination?

you keep kashrut?

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:17 PM
no. i don't think i will...

Like I said, then stop slandering me and shut the fuck up.

jillian
09-02-2013, 08:17 PM
Like I said, then stop slandering me and shut the fuck up.

ok...i guess we should ignore all of your posting history.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:20 PM
ok...i guess we should ignore all of your posting history.
If I have such a history, then produce the posts. You cannot because you are a slandering liar, just like most libs.

Chris
09-02-2013, 08:22 PM
If I have such a history, then produce the posts. You cannot because you are a slandering liar, just like most libs.



Hey, don't fall for her flame baiting.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 08:23 PM
Revelation 20:11-15
Matthew 5:21-22
Matthew 23:33

The Greek word geenna used in these passages means everlasting punishment.

So is that hell as described by Dante? Fire and brimstone and all the other malarky? Everlasting punishment is hell?

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:24 PM
Hey, don't fall for her flame baiting.
I don't really care anymore. If this forum wants to support flame baiting trolls like jillian, they can have at it. There's a mess of them here. I guess I didn't learn my lesson last time I was hanging out here.

Boris The Animal
09-02-2013, 08:24 PM
he was a jewish rabbi. he preached the return of israel to the jews...

the rest is faith.

and i'll take my chances that no G-d would demand an intermediary.

you know, jews have a concept of the righteous gentile. it's understood that people are judged by their deeds. i understand that you believe what you do. but in the end, it's only your faith versus my faith.

i'll stick with mine as i suspect you'll stick with yours.

but i certainly don't believe if you are innocent you are somehow tossed into hell by a
G-d who doesn't care that you lived a righteous life.

and i don't believe there's any such thing as hell.And yet you conveniently forget that Rabbi Paul wrote that there is none righteous, all have sinned. The only one who lived a perfect sinless life is Christ. because He IS G-d!

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 08:26 PM
Only an idiot would buy into the atheistic haters claim of Biblical contradictions. You would first have to possess a mind to have it boggled. :wink:

It has been translated a few times, but not from previous translations. The extant Greek manuscripts far outnumber manuscripts of other books of antiquity. Why do you not rail against the inaccuracies of Homer, or Aristotle?

The Word of God is only without error in the Greek and Hebrew. That is why we have to understand what the Greek and Hebrew passage says not the English.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:30 PM
The Word of God is only without error in the Greek and Hebrew. That is why we have to understand what the Greek and Hebrew passage says not the English.
The more modern translations to English are perfectly accurate. The KJV, while beautifully poetic, is not a very good translation. There may be some words that don't translate well to English, but the meaning is not lost.

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 08:32 PM
So is that hell as described by Dante? Fire and brimstone and all the other malarky? Everlasting punishment is hell?

The Fact is your wrong Hell is in the Bible. You can take "Everlasting punishment" any way you want, but it still comes out very bad.

Chris
09-02-2013, 08:35 PM
I don't really care anymore. If this forum wants to support flame baiting trolls like jillian, they can have at it. There's a mess of them here. I guess I didn't learn my lesson last time I was hanging out here.

Well, we need more voices of reason who contribute rather than voices of emotionalism that tear down.

Carlsen
09-02-2013, 08:37 PM
The more modern translations to English are perfectly accurate. The KJV, while beautifully poetic, is not a very good translation. There may be some words that don't translate well to English, but the meaning is not lost.

ministerium verksamhet there always use KJV so what translate the best?

.

Mister D
09-02-2013, 08:38 PM
no. i don't think i will... and curb your tongue.

you mean to tell me you're not one of the homophobes who think gays are an abomination?

you keep kashrut?

:huh: Why would he? He's not a Jew.

jillian
09-02-2013, 08:38 PM
And yet you conveniently forget that Rabbi Paul wrote that there is none righteous, all have sinned. The only one who lived a perfect sinless life is Christ. because He IS G-d!

you're trying to use your religious book as a means of proving your religious book.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 08:39 PM
The Word of God is only without error in the Greek and Hebrew.

That is open for debate...

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 08:40 PM
The more modern translations to English are perfectly accurate.

No they are not. They are far from perfect...

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 08:46 PM
That is open for debate...

No debate needed your wrong, Just like you was with Hell being in the Bible.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 08:47 PM
No debate needed your wrong, Just like you was with Hell being in the Bible.

link to the academic sites saying those translations are perfect. Take your time.

I am not wrong about hell. it is not mentioned in the bible. Your own posts prove that...next....

jillian
09-02-2013, 08:51 PM
The more modern translations to English are perfectly accurate.

i can think of at least two translation errors from the original off the top of my head.

1. the commandment was never 'thou shalt not kill'. it was thou shalt not murder. there is a difference.
2. in genesis, the translations states that the bible beings 'In the beginning". This is incorrect. the proper translation is "In A beginning".... which implies there have been other beginnings and this is just one of them... which probably corresponds more to what we know scientifically.

countryboy
09-02-2013, 08:54 PM
No they are not. They are far from perfect...
Examples?

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 08:58 PM
Examples?

As I said, read two books - Jesus Interuppted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus,_Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus

Both books written by a theology scholar....Both books ar full of mistranslations etc.

That aside I have asked to provide the academic links to prove they are perfect. You said it, not me...It's up to you to prove.

jillian
09-02-2013, 08:58 PM
As I said, read two books - Jesus Interuppted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus,_Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus

Both books written by a theology scholar....Both books ar full of mistranslations etc.

That aside I have asked to provide the academic links to prove they are perfect. You said it, not me...It's up to you to prove.

if you note, i pointed out two examples of mistranslation

countryboy
09-02-2013, 09:06 PM
i can think of at least two translation errors from the original off the top of my head.

1. the commandment was never 'thou shalt not kill'. it was thou shalt not murder. there is a difference.
2. in genesis, the translations states that the bible beings 'In the beginning". This is incorrect. the proper translation is "In A beginning".... which implies there have been other beginnings and this is just one of them... which probably corresponds more to what we know scientifically.
What do you mean, "from the original"? The original what?

Your first example has been corrected to read "thou shalt not murder" in the more modern translations.

As for your second example, do you have anything to back up your assertion?

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 09:08 PM
link to the academic sites saying those translations are perfect. Take your time.



Jay Kesler- Pres. Taylor University
Eli Borden PHD Governor's Commission on Higher Education-NM
F. LaGard Smith Professor Pepperdine University
Ivor Davidson - University of Otago, New Zealand
David Wright-Professor University of Edinburgh

jillian
09-02-2013, 09:11 PM
What do you mean, "from the original"? The original what?

Your first example has been corrected to read "thou shalt not murder" in the more modern translations.

As for your second example, do you have anything to back up your assertion?

hebrew... you do know the bible wasn't written in english, right?

as for the mistranslation of " "בראשית

Dr Berry does a much better job explaining it than I could:


http://jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/312/312_berry.pdf

countryboy
09-02-2013, 09:13 PM
As I said, read two books - Jesus Interuppted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus,_Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus

Both books written by a theology scholar....Both books ar full of mistranslations etc.

That aside I have asked to provide the academic links to prove they are perfect. You said it, not me...It's up to you to prove.
In other words, you have nothing. Got it. Concession accepted.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 09:16 PM
Jay Kesler- Pres. Taylor University
Eli Borden PHD Governor's Commission on Higher Education-NM
F. LaGard Smith Professor Pepperdine University
Ivor Davidson - University of Otago, New Zealand
David Wright-Professor University of Edinburgh

Fantastic. Great, now we have a list of people who you allege say the translations are perfect. We are half way there. Now if you can link to their body of work stating thus, then we'll almost be done...

countryboy
09-02-2013, 09:16 PM
hebrew... you do know the bible wasn't written in english, right?

as for the mistranslation of " "בראשית

Dr Berry does a much better job explaining it than I could:


http://jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/312/312_berry.pdf
Are you completely incapable of having a civil discussion without insulting your opponent? I disproved your first example. Now you want me to read a treatise written by someone else? Why don't you simply explain it yourself? You realize that not everyone is in agreement with your assessment, right? I understand your proclivity to agree with those who hold the same ideology as you, but that doesn't make it right.

Mr Happy
09-02-2013, 09:17 PM
In other words, you have nothing. Got it. Concession accepted.

It is not up to me to 'get' anything. It is up to you to prove. If you can't, just say so. No harm, no foul...

TheDictator
09-02-2013, 09:37 PM
hebrew... you do know the bible wasn't written in english, right?

as for the mistranslation of " "בראשית

Dr Berry does a much better job explaining it than I could:


http://jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/312/312_berry.pdf


Sorry but your wrong. The Hebrew word you used is used in three other passages Jer. 26:1, Jer. 27:1 Jer. 28:1 A beginning just will not work.

Stop making stuff up

Captain Obvious
09-03-2013, 05:16 AM
Are you completely incapable of having a civil discussion without insulting your opponent? I disproved your first example. Now you want me to read a treatise written by someone else? Why don't you simply explain it yourself? You realize that not everyone is in agreement with your assessment, right? I understand your proclivity to agree with those who hold the same ideology as you, but that doesn't make it right.

Physician, heal thyself!

jillian
09-03-2013, 05:28 AM
Are you completely incapable of having a civil discussion without insulting your opponent? I disproved your first example. Now you want me to read a treatise written by someone else? Why don't you simply explain it yourself? You realize that not everyone is in agreement with your assessment, right? I understand your proclivity to agree with those who hold the same ideology as you, but that doesn't make it right.

if you think that was insulting, i'd suggest you seek help.... particularly from someone who told me to STFI.

wacky

but i understand you hate when you're proven wrong.

rant on, dude.

countryboy
09-03-2013, 06:13 AM
if you think that was insulting, i'd suggest you seek help.... particularly from someone who told me to STFI.

wacky

but i understand you hate when you're proven wrong.

rant on, dude.
The term is "STFU", and I only used it after you slandered me.

Where exactly was I proven wrong? You were the one proven wrong, but you conveniently tap dance around it, and in true lib fashion act as if you are somehow victorious.

countryboy
09-03-2013, 06:14 AM
Physician, heal thyself!
No idea what you are yammering about, and I suspect, neither do you. :wink:

Captain Obvious
09-03-2013, 06:18 AM
No idea what you are yammering about

Par for the course.

countryboy
09-03-2013, 06:20 AM
Par for the course.
Agreed.

Ravi
09-03-2013, 07:39 AM
In other words, atheistic libs are better people than conservative Christians. I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YA, that you would make such an assertion. :rolleyes:

I'm not an atheist but you're right about one thing. I'm better than "conservative Christians."

Chris
09-03-2013, 07:51 AM
I'm not an atheist but you're right about one thing. I'm better than "conservative Christians."



You keep making claims but never substantiate. How are you better than ... better than anyone else?

TheDictator
09-03-2013, 11:06 AM
I'm not an atheist but you're right about one thing. I'm better than "conservative Christians."

Yes, you are better in your own self-rightness.

jillian
09-03-2013, 11:09 AM
Yes, you are better in your own self-rightness.

psssssst... here's a hint... if you think someone is going to hell because they don't believe what you do; or think that someone who doesn't vote like you isn't a real christian, then YOU are the one who's self-righteous.

i hope that helps.

TheDictator
09-03-2013, 11:25 AM
psssssst... here's a hint... if you think someone is going to hell because they don't believe what you do; or think that someone who doesn't vote like you isn't a real christian, then YOU are the one who's self-righteous.

i hope that helps.


I do not base my belief on what I want things to be or what I think, but on what the Bible says, what rightness I may have come from the Bible. So I guess you could say I am Bible Rightness, You base you belief on what you think things up, or the way you want it to be. That is self-Rightness. I have never gone around saying I'm better then someone or anyone. That is a true mark of a Self-Rightness nut.

Mister D
09-03-2013, 11:27 AM
That's another obvious problem here. The tag team mentality derails most of the threads.

Chris
09-03-2013, 11:36 AM
psssssst... here's a hint... if you think someone is going to hell because they don't believe what you do; or think that someone who doesn't vote like you isn't a real christian, then YOU are the one who's self-righteous.

i hope that helps.

But you're being every bit what you accuse others. Know you no humility?

jillian
09-03-2013, 11:39 AM
But you're being every bit what you accuse others. Know you no humility?

tell us more about all you pretend to know, chris.

then talk some more about humility.

you are a crack up, aren't you?

Chris
09-03-2013, 11:48 AM
tell us more about all you pretend to know, chris.

then talk some more about humility.

you are a crack up, aren't you?

I earlier claimed to be agnostic. What are you talking about? I don't pretend to know it all.

nic34
09-03-2013, 01:49 PM
People that don't believe in God and have good morals are better than those that have good morals because they fear God.

Right. The moral person dosen't need to be told or threatened into behaving, morally.

jillian
09-03-2013, 02:02 PM
I do not base my belief on what I want things to be or what I think, but on what the Bible says, what rightness I may have come from the Bible. So I guess you could say I am Bible Rightness, You base you belief on what you think things up, or the way you want it to be. That is self-Rightness. I have never gone around saying I'm better then someone or anyone. That is a true mark of a Self-Rightness nut.

what *you* believe the bible is...

mine doesn't agree.

and THAT is my point.

countryboy
09-03-2013, 05:16 PM
I'm not an atheist but you're right about one thing. I'm better than "conservative Christians."
Of course you are dear.

Chris
09-03-2013, 05:21 PM
psssssst... here's a hint... if you think someone is going to hell because they don't believe what you do; or think that someone who doesn't vote like you isn't a real christian, then YOU are the one who's self-righteous.

i hope that helps.

How about someone who calls everyone she disagrees with a extremerightwingnutter, is she self-righteous?

Chris
09-03-2013, 05:22 PM
Right. The moral person dosen't need to be told or threatened into behaving, morally.



Define moral person then since you seem to know what it is.

Mister D
09-03-2013, 07:33 PM
Define moral person then since you seem to know what it is.

I'd love to hear this.

TheDictator
09-03-2013, 07:51 PM
Yes, What is morality?