Cruel and unusual

[Ravi]

Attorney General Pam Bondi persuaded Gov. Rick Scott to postpone an execution scheduled for tonight because it conflicted with her re-election kick-off reception.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/execution-rescheduled-to-accommodate-pam-bondi-fundraiser/2140891

[jillian]

Attorney General Pam Bondi persuaded Gov. Rick Scott to postpone an execution scheduled for tonight because it conflicted with her re-election kick-off reception.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/execution-rescheduled-to-accommodate-pam-bondi-fundraiser/2140891

well, an execution can be so inconvenient...

[strollingbonez]

unbelievable....

[Ravi]

She's since apologized but I wonder if this will be the kiss of death for her reelection campaign.

[strollingbonez]

it should be...shows her concerns for justice ...now doesnt it

[Ravi]

it should be...shows her concerns for justice ...now doesnt it
I'm less upset about justice than her jerking around someone the state is going to kill. Sure, the guy sounds like he deserves what is coming to him but that is just over the top cruel.

[ptif219]

So liberal's are against the death penalty unless they can use it for political smears. More faux outrage from the left

[Ravi]

So liberal's are against the death penalty unless they can use it for political smears. More faux outrage from the left

LOL! Political? She's just an ass, no politics involved.

[ptif219]

LOL! Political? She's just an ass, no politics involved.


The ass are the liberals that hate the death penalty yet complain about this. If it was Obama you would be cheering he stopped the execution

[Ravi]

The ass are the liberals that hate the death penalty yet complain about this. If it was Obama you would be cheering he stopped the execution
She didn't stop it. She postponed it because she was busy campaigning. That's cruel. Interesting to see you applaud it.

[ptif219]

She didn't stop it. She postponed it because she was busy campaigning. That's cruel. Interesting to see you applaud it.


If Obama did that you would cheer it was delayed. You partisan BS is well seen. You sound like that idiot from Florida here named Wasserman

[Ravi]

If Obama did that you would cheer it was delayed. You partisan BS is well seen. You sound like that idiot from Florida here named Wasserman

Obama wouldn't do it. Keep up the defense.

[ptif219]

Obama wouldn't do it. Keep up the defense.


Yes he would he went to Vegas day after Benghazi. If that was Bush it would have been condemned. The liberals and democrats are hypocrites and keep their double standards alive

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/10/01/obama_campaign_vegas_fundraiser_on_day_after_bengh azi_massacre_was_appropriate

[roadmaster]

Gore, 50, raped, strangled and stabbed 30-year-old Robyn Novick in 1988 before dumping her body into a Miami-Dade County trash heap. Gore was also sentenced to die for the slaying of 19-year-old Susan Roark, whose body was found a few months later in Columbia County. In 1988 this happened! My friends killers three of them, got 5 years for beating up, rape, shooting her in the head and thrown into a dumpster locking up a fast food place. There only defense was that they needed money to go back up north and watched her exit with a bag. Wasn't the bag they were looking for so they didn't get far. Most were shocked and they hit her so bad her dad had a hard time recognizing his own daughter. These were not teens but in their middle twenties. She was only 17.Every time they were up for patrol her dad would get signatures to keep them in jail until he died. Five years for brutally killing his daughter and none showed remorse. At least these victims families didn't have to go what they went through. A few more weeks compared to the other is nothing.

[Common]

In 1988 this happened! My friends killers three of them, got 5 years for beating up, rape, shooting her in the head and thrown into a dumpster locking up a fast food place. There only defense was that they needed money to go back up north and watched her exit with a bag. Wasn't the bag they were looking for so they didn't get far. Most were shocked and they hit her so bad her dad had a hard time recognizing his own daughter. These were not teens but in their middle twenties. She was only 17.Every time they were up for patrol her dad would get signatures to keep them in jail until he died. Five years for brutally killing his daughter and none showed remorse. At least these victims families didn't have to go what they went through. A few more weeks compared to the other is nothing.

If they got only 5yrs for that, the judge and prosecutor should be prosecuted

[Chris]

She didn't stop it. She postponed it because she was busy campaigning. That's cruel. Interesting to see you applaud it.


PTF didn't applaud it, why make that up? He pointed out hypocrisy.

[Ravi]

PTF didn't applaud it, why make that up? He pointed out hypocrisy.

Trolling?

[Chris]

Trolling?

No, just pointing out your misrepresentation what he said. Did you want to discuss it?

[Ravi]

No, just pointing out your misrepresentation what he said. Did you want to discuss it?

I'd be happy to discuss why you found an old thread and bumped it in order to attempt to attack me.

[ptif219]

Trolling?

Why because he state truth?

[Chris]

I'd be happy to discuss why you found an old thread and bumped it in order to attempt to attack me.



Look again, common bumped it.

Now where did I attack you, marie, please point out the words. Commenting on your post is not commenting on you.

[Cthulhu]

She didn't stop it. She postponed it because she was busy campaigning. That's cruel. Interesting to see you applaud it.

What does it matter? The condemned should be enjoying his life, he is truly on borrowed time.

...besides, she can always kill him later - it isn't like he is going anywhere.

[Cthulhu]

Obama wouldn't do it. Keep up the defense.

Obama kills children with drone strikes to wag the dog. What makes you think he cares about life or the living innocent? And you're telling me he cares about the condemned?

That's rich.

I can tell we'll enjoy each others company.

Not likely, you don't like him and you know it, don't waste our time. Engage better opponents.

Shut up, if I wanted your input, I'd ask you for it. Your a voice in my head.

And you're an errant flesh vehicle piloted by a moron.

Well played Mr. Brooks.

You always lose this game with me.

Ah indeed, but you can never win it either.

I hate you.

Love you too.

[Alyosha]

Obama kills children with drone strikes to wag the dog. What makes you think he cares about life or the living innocent? And you're telling me he cares about the condemned?

That's rich.

I can tell we'll enjoy each others company.

Not likely, you don't like him and you know it, don't waste our time. Engage better opponents.

Shut up, if I wanted your input, I'd ask you for it. Your a voice in my head.

And you're an errant flesh vehicle piloted by a moron.

Well played Mr. Brooks.

You always lose this game with me.

Ah indeed, but you can never win it either.

I hate you.

Love you too.


Do you own 20 sided dice @Mr Evil ?

[Cthulhu]

Do you own 20 sided dice @Mr Evil ?

Took you long enough. Alyosha

[Alyosha]

Took you long enough. @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863)

You scared the piss out of me. :)

I was worried you were Dante. What a HUGE relief.

[Cthulhu]

You scared the piss out of me. :)

What could you possibly have been afraid of? Have you forgotten the creature you're dating? Surely he would snuff out the life any ruffian or thug that dared approach you with malice aforethought.



I was worried you were Dante. What a HUGE relief.

But really, why worry about Dante?

BTW, we still need to gather the whole crew together and play. I was thinking of something post apocalyptic. And it really stuck with me. Alyosha

[Alyosha]

What could you possibly have been afraid of? Have you forgotten the creature you're dating? Surely he would snuff out the life any ruffian or thug that dared approach you with malice aforethought.


He's a hippie man of peace.





But really, why worry about Dante?


Annoyance beyond annoyance.



BTW, we still need to gather the whole crew together and play. I was thinking of something post apocalyptic. And it really stuck with me. @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863)

Like what? What sorts of monsters?

***************************

Back on topic, cruel and unusual...I do speak with criminals from time to time, and most of them would rather have short term physical punishment of the ancient variety than the tedium of prison.

[Cthulhu]

Corporal punishment for the win!

[Alyosha]

Corporal punishment for the win!

I had this 19 year old who wanted a sentence reduction request. He had made fake IDs purely for clubs and beer. Well, in the post 9-11 world making fake IDs is a huge, huge no-no, so he got 6 years minimum. He was telling me how every single day was the same, how it was endlessly boring, how the walls were the same, the food was the same, everything was the same and that he'd rather have been beaten in the public square.

After he told me that I went around and asked clients who'd done time. All of them were pretty much, "yeh, I'd rather be beaten than go to jail"

What is "cruel and unusual" punishment?

It would be cheaper just to beat the crap out of people and they'd prefer it.

[Cthulhu]

I had this 19 year old who wanted a sentence reduction request. He had made fake IDs purely for clubs and beer. Well, in the post 9-11 world making fake IDs is a huge, huge no-no, so he got 6 years minimum. He was telling me how every single day was the same, how it was endlessly boring, how the walls were the same, the food was the same, everything was the same and that he'd rather have been beaten in the public square.

After he told me that I went around and asked clients who'd done time. All of them were pretty much, "yeh, I'd rather be beaten than go to jail"

What is "cruel and unusual" punishment?

It would be cheaper just to beat the crap out of people and they'd prefer it.

The most important part.

But it would severely crush the prison lobby and police unions. And we can't have silly things like Justice get in the way of the all-important quarterly report of some corporation.

[Alyosha]

The most important part.

But it would severely crush the prison lobby and police unions. And we can't have silly things like Justice get in the way of the all-important quarterly report of some corporation.

No, we have to spend money on "so boring it's cruel" punishment instead of the cheaper more effective (and to some "fun") solution of corporal punishment.

[Ravi]

What does it matter? The condemned should be enjoying his life, he is truly on borrowed time.

...besides, she can always kill him later - it isn't like he is going anywhere.Because monkeying with people's lives in this manner is cruel.

[Ravi]

I had this 19 year old who wanted a sentence reduction request. He had made fake IDs purely for clubs and beer. Well, in the post 9-11 world making fake IDs is a huge, huge no-no, so he got 6 years minimum. He was telling me how every single day was the same, how it was endlessly boring, how the walls were the same, the food was the same, everything was the same and that he'd rather have been beaten in the public square.

After he told me that I went around and asked clients who'd done time. All of them were pretty much, "yeh, I'd rather be beaten than go to jail"

What is "cruel and unusual" punishment?

It would be cheaper just to beat the crap out of people and they'd prefer it.
Not sure where you are going with that. Six years in prison for drinking?

[Cthulhu]

Because monkeying with people's lives in this manner is cruel.

Their life is frankly quite irrelevant, their life is forfeit - they are on death row for a reason. They probably earned whatever they had coming to them.

[Ravi]

Their life is frankly quite irrelevant, their life is forfeit - they are on death row for a reason. They probably earned whatever they had coming to them.
Okay, then. You support big government. Always good to get your cards on the table.

[Cthulhu]

Okay, then. You support big government. Always good to get your cards on the table.


:weedsmoking: Lay off of the peace pipe.

Lol. That is quite the assumption to make given how little you know of me. Tell you what. You put together a list of charged and sensitive questions regarding politics across as many topics as you can muster - and I'll answer them truthfully.

Because as it stands, you'll be eating your own words. There are extremely few statist measures I condone.

Although, if you want to browse the creature I am. You can always go to www.thepoliticsforums.com and look for posts under "Gemini". Although there are a few of them it will be the easiest way for you to get this silly idea that I am a statist of some variety out of your head.

Assumptions won't go far.

[jillian]

Their life is frankly quite irrelevant, their life is forfeit - they are on death row for a reason. They probably earned whatever they had coming to them.

unless, of course, you're one of the 311 people on death row exonerated by the innocence project, of course.

but her point is that messing with someone's execution date is irresponsible... she might even be making fun of the abuse of power and the arrogance of the person who made the call.

i could be wrong. but you'd have to ask ravi.

[Cthulhu]

unless, of course, you're one of the 311 people on death row exonerated by the innocence project, of course.

but her point is that messing with someone's execution date is irresponsible... she might even be making fun of the abuse of power and the arrogance of the person who made the call.

i could be wrong. but you'd have to ask ravi.

Key word being probably. Our investigators are pretty good now days, they usually get the right guy.

I personally find the death penalty a little stupid. It does no good, save that it might rid the world of a small portion of evil.

[jillian]

Key word being probably. Our investigators are pretty good now days, they usually get the right guy.

I personally find the death penalty a little stupid. It does no good, save that it might rid the world of a small portion of evil.

they don't always get the right guy... eyewitness testimony is notoriouosly unreliable and the inter racial recognition rate (for all races) is about 15% and no matter what you see on CSI, most police departments don't operate that way. they are better, but not perfect. and the imperfection when someone is on death row is inexcusable.

there are times the idea of the death penalty can be quite satisfying.... but only when there is zero question as to the perpetrator of a given crime. that said, if we did away with it, in favor of life imprisonment without possibility of parole, i'm ok with that

[Cthulhu]

they don't always get the right guy... eyewitness testimony is notoriouosly unreliable and the inter racial recognition rate (for all races) is about 15% and no matter what you see on CSI, most police departments don't operate that way. they are better, but not perfect. and the imperfection when someone is on death row is inexcusable.

Nothing I really dispute here.



there are times the idea of the death penalty can be quite satisfying.... but only when there is zero question as to the perpetrator of a given crime. that said, if we did away with it, in favor of life imprisonment without possibility of parole, i'm ok with that

I dispute this. Life imprisonment is foolish. Life of enslavement is more productive. If they will not work, then do not feed them. All proceeds of their labors go to the wounded party, if none can be found donate it to a local charity. Work them until they are dead.

In this way, restitution is usually met, with exception to death related crimes, and if he is innocent, he is not in danger of being killed.

[Ravi]

:weedsmoking: Lay off of the peace pipe.

Lol. That is quite the assumption to make given how little you know of me. Tell you what. You put together a list of charged and sensitive questions regarding politics across as many topics as you can muster - and I'll answer them truthfully.

Because as it stands, you'll be eating your own words. There are extremely few statist measures I condone.

Although, if you want to browse the creature I am. You can always go to www.thepoliticsforums.com (http://www.thepoliticsforums.com) and look for posts under "Gemini". Although there are a few of them it will be the easiest way for you to get this silly idea that I am a statist of some variety out of your head.

Assumptions won't go far.

Condoning capital punishment is the ultimate support of big government.

[Ravi]

unless, of course, you're one of the 311 people on death row exonerated by the innocence project, of course.

but her point is that messing with someone's execution date is irresponsible... she might even be making fun of the abuse of power and the arrogance of the person who made the call.

i could be wrong. but you'd have to ask ravi.

You aren't wrong. Though I'd say it is more than irresponsible. It is cruel.

[jillian]

You aren't wrong. Though I'd say it is more than irresponsible. It is cruel.

fair enough. i just think the woman is a jerk.

[jillian]

Nothing I really dispute here.



I dispute this. Life imprisonment is foolish. Life of enslavement is more productive. If they will not work, then do not feed them. All proceeds of their labors go to the wounded party, if none can be found donate it to a local charity. Work them until they are dead.

In this way, restitution is usually met, with exception to death related crimes, and if he is innocent, he is not in danger of being killed.

all well and good but it violates the constitution.

[Cthulhu]

Condoning capital punishment is the ultimate support of big government.

Who said I support capital punishment? I am not horridly opposed to it for certain offenses, but I don't support it. I believe other, more calculated alternatives are superior.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFen7ArmeUwOjZpmqSO_VkTJKW_k03y TI8hkoomZE-tQJ4q4s1Ew

Incorrect, your assumption is.


all well and good but it violates the constitution.

Not so sure. Check this this place (http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=1715) out. Really depends on how your choose to salt and pepper your arguments if you are not morally grounded. Killing people for certain types of offenses is all well and grand in my book, but my book also contains superior options.

From the Constitution with appropriate highlights-



Amendment V (ratified 1791):
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Amendment VIII (ratified 1791):

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."


C. Amendment XIV, Section I (ratified 1868):

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."



Savvy?

[Codename Section]

You know that scene in the Gospels where Jesus stops a stoning by saying, he who is without sin cast the first stone? I don't think our government is moral enough to be the person that decides who lives and who dies.

[Cthulhu]

You know that scene in the Gospels where Jesus stops a stoning by saying, he who is without sin cast the first stone? I don't think our government is moral enough to be the person that decides who lives and who dies.

I am inclined to agree with you. However, there do exist some people who would best serve the living by dying and pushing up daisies.

[Codename Section]

I am inclined to agree with you. However, there do exist some people who would best serve the living by dying and pushing up daisies.

I agree. I think if they need to die, then the right people should be in charge of it, is all.

[Cthulhu]

I agree. I think if they need to die, then the right people should be in charge of it, is all.

Unfortunately, the wise ones needed to decide such things are in short supply, while the list of those needing death seems to grow.

*rainbow sunglasses*

"We'll find a way, just don't kill them, it's cruel"

[Alyosha]

I don't believe in capital punishment because it is administered by the state. We don't hire Einsteins as police officers, or DAs, or judges. We hire people who can't compete in the private sector and require unions to allow them to keep their jobs. They make a lot of mistakes and corruption in many departments is so out of control that many innocent people go to jail.

[jillian]

I don't believe in capital punishment because it is administered by the state. We don't hire Einsteins as police officers, or DAs, or judges. We hire people who can't compete in the private sector and require unions to allow them to keep their jobs. They make a lot of mistakes and corruption in many departments is so out of control that many innocent people go to jail.

except it's juries who decide who goes to jail.

[Ravi]

Their life is frankly quite irrelevant, their life is forfeit - they are on death row for a reason. They probably earned whatever they had coming to them.

^Here is where I got the impression you supported capital punishment.

[Cthulhu]

^Here is where I got the impression you supported capital punishment.

And you were corrected. It happens. Nothing to worry about. I just generally lend a blind eye and a deaf ear to the emotional concerns of those to do evil. They are the author of their fate, I'm not going to feel guilty about natural processes taking their course.

I will however, shriek like a banshee when natural processes are delayed to benefit those who violate them.

[Cthulhu]

except it's juries who decide who goes to jail.

Try to inform a jury of their powers in a court room. Especially nullification.

See just how quickly the judge will summon the blackguards to dispose of you.

[Alyosha]

except it's juries who decide who goes to jail.

With help from prosecutors and, oftentimes, shielded from vital information.

[jillian]

With help from prosecutors and, oftentimes, shielded from vital information.

your opinion of people who are employed by the government is a bit..... .well, false. teachers shape kids' lives. some are great. some are good. some are meh...and some are horrible. but if we paid them more, we'd probably get more great teachers. prosecutors work very hard. some cases are harder than others. a larger problem is defendants not being able to afford lawyers and legal aid being very overworked, overburdened, and underpaid. there are some very good, dedicated judges and some very awful and/or lazy judges.... like in most businesses, it takes all type. and many people become judge AFTER they've made a lot of money in private practices because judges are paid less than the baby lawyers who appear in front of them. i'm sure Common will tell you that most of the police and firefighters work their butts off for the most part and put themselves in harms way. again, there are mistakes on occasion (like last week when an idiot fired into a crowd near the port authority, missing the perp (who was using his finger as a pretend gun) and striking two bystanders).

but you shouldn't disparage people who work very hard at what they do. they aren't failures in private industry... people have a lot of reasons for wanting to serve the public (which, pre-radical right people understood those jobs to be).

[Cthulhu]

your opinion of people who are employed by the government is a bit..... .well, false. teachers shape kids' lives. some are great. some are good. some are meh...and some are horrible. but if we paid them more, we'd probably get more great teachers. prosecutors work very hard. some cases are harder than others. a larger problem is defendants not being able to afford lawyers and legal aid being very overworked, overburdened, and underpaid. there are some very good, dedicated judges and some very awful and/or lazy judges.... like in most businesses, it takes all type. and many people become judge AFTER they've made a lot of money in private practices because judges are paid less than the baby lawyers who appear in front of them. i'm sure @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659) will tell you that most of the police and firefighters work their butts off for the most part and put themselves in harms way. again, there are mistakes on occasion (like last week when an idiot fired into a crowd near the port authority, missing the perp (who was using his finger as a pretend gun) and striking two bystanders).

but you shouldn't disparage people who work very hard at what they do. they aren't failures in private industry... people have a lot of reasons for wanting to serve the public (which, pre-radical right people understood those jobs to be).

If they were that marvelous they wouldn't need to shield themselves with unions when they screw up. Private sector can make no such boast. But the government employee? He may as well fart lavender and walk on water.

[jillian]

If they were that marvelous they wouldn't need to shield themselves with unions when they screw up. Private sector can make no such boast. But the government employee? He may as well fart lavender and walk on water.

i don't agree. people don't go into those jobs BECAUSE of unions. they go into those jobs because they think they matter. the benefits are simply a trade off for taking lower salaries than are found in the

they don't come free. and the irrational union-bashing that has rolled off and targeted people who serve us...and without whom our society wouldn't operate is beyond my comprehension.

i view it as a continuation of the right's hatred of anyone who is middle class.

[Cthulhu]

i don't agree. people don't go into those jobs BECAUSE of unions. they go into those jobs because they think they matter. the benefits are simply a trade off for taking lower salaries than are found in the

they don't come free. and the irrational union-bashing that has rolled off and targeted people who serve us...and without whom our society wouldn't operate is beyond my comprehension.

i view it as a continuation of the right's hatred of anyone who is middle class.

Unions as they were originally conceived were a good thing. They have since corrupted their purpose and lost their way.

I wrote a piece on it here (http://provocativegraymatters.blogspot.com/2011/06/oh-glorious-union.html). Having viewed both sides of the union argument. They are not really needed much any more. Not with the advent of social media and such, or just a large email bomb.

[jillian]

Unions as they were originally conceived were a good thing. They have since corrupted their purpose and lost their way.

I wrote a piece on it here (http://provocativegraymatters.blogspot.com/2011/06/oh-glorious-union.html). Having viewed both sides of the union argument. They are not really needed much any more. Not with the advent of social media and such, or just a large email bomb.

i think unions are still a good/necessary thing. i've seen too many people eviscerate benefits and the things that allow people to live a middle class life. that isn't to say there aren't things wrong with unions.

i think, given the activism and vilification of workers unions are very necessary. i understand why you think they might not be needed anymore. but it's clear that the minute they're not there, workers get treated like garbage.

[Cthulhu]

i think unions are still a good/necessary thing. i've seen too many people eviscerate benefits and the things that allow people to live a middle class life. that isn't to say there aren't things wrong with unions.

i think, given the activism and vilification of workers unions are very necessary. i understand why you think they might not be needed anymore. but it's clear that the minute they're not there, workers get treated like garbage.

If union membership were optional without reprisal - I wouldn't give a damn about them in the slightest. Unless they interfered with me doing my work with their inane policies.

Lack of choice is my main gripe. That and most unions are basically money laundering for the left wing given how many public sector unions we have now days.

[Alyosha]

I have no problems with unions. I have problems with pro-union (or anti-union) laws. People should always be allowed to collectively and cooperatively gather together to achieve a goal, be it buying power or arranging for labor negotiations. To disallow it is antithetical to freedom and liberty.

What I do mind is pro-union laws that prevent companies from firing people who start a union or to force them to show their books, so to speak, or to prevent criminal charges for violent activities just because the people are in a union.

[Cthulhu]

I have no problems with unions. I have problems with pro-union (or anti-union) laws. People should always be allowed to collectively and cooperatively gather together to achieve a goal, be it buying power or arranging for labor negotiations. To disallow it is antithetical to freedom and liberty.

What I do mind is pro-union laws that prevent companies from firing people who start a union or to force them to show their books, so to speak, or to prevent criminal charges for violent activities just because the people are in a union.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oDjnRTcKEzQ/TrFSGEz5tJI/AAAAAAAAKFg/VPPX9CHU4eY/s1600/amen.jpg