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MMC
01-26-2012, 08:44 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon outlined a plan Thursday for slowing the growth of military spending, including cutting the size of the Army and Marine Corps, retiring older planes and trimming war costs.
The Army would shrink from a peak of 570,000 to 490,000 within five years, and the Marines would drop by 20,000, to 182,000. Those are considerable declines, but both services will still be slightly larger than on 9/11, before they began a decade of war. Both will keep their footholds abroad, although the Army will decrease its presence in Europe and the Marines plan to increase theirs in Asia.

Panetta said the administration will ask Congress for $525 billion to run the Pentagon in 2013 — $6 billion less than the current budget. War costs, which are not considered part of the base budget, would decline from $115 billion to $88 billion, reflecting the completion of the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.
The plan Panetta presented Thursday covers the first five years of that span and would cut a cumulative total of $259 billion in planned spending.

In a bid to pre-empt election-year Republican criticism, Panetta said the plan begins to shift the Pentagon's focus from the long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to future challenges in Asia, the Mideast and in cyberspace. More special operations forces like the Navy SEALs who killed Osama bin Laden will be available around the world, he said, and the Pentagon will stress improvements in cyberdefenses.

Among other details Panetta disclosed:
--The Air Force would retire some older planes including about two dozen C-5A cargo aircraft and 65 of its oldest C-130 cargo planes.
-- The Navy would keep a fleet of 11 aircraft carriers but retire seven cruisers earlier than planned. It also would delay purchase of some other ships, including a new Virginia-class submarine.
--Purchase of F-35 stealth fighter jets, to be fielded by the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, would be slowed.
--Current plans for building a new generation of submarines that carry long-range nuclear missiles would be delayed by two years. The current fleet of nuclear-capable bombers and land-based nuclear missiles would be left unchanged.
--Military pay raises will remain on track until 2015, when the pace of increase will be slowed by an undetermined amount.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-army-marines-shrink-budget-slows-214536441.html
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Why should we be providing more Special Operations Services around the World? What focus would change with the ME? Plus Obama wanted to close some more bases but will hold up until after the election year.

I don't have a problem with reducing our footprint in the EU. Let them spend their money for their own defenses and protections. But if we are going to focus on Asia and SE Asia then we best have our shit together. Not like with this Arab Spring and their Civil Wars.

Conley
01-26-2012, 09:10 PM
Right, I'm all for reducing the expenses providing defense and enforcement for Europe and nations around the world. Those numbers still look plenty large enough to me. A small cutback is far less draining on our military than getting bogged down in pointless wars.

Peter1469
01-26-2012, 09:29 PM
It is a misnomer to say we are going to "increase" our SoF. We are at the point of running out of real talent and lowering standards.

Conley
01-26-2012, 09:32 PM
It is a misnomer to say we are going to "increase" our SoF. We are at the point of running out of real talent and lowering standards.

That and we've lost a LOT of good men over the last ten years. :icon_salut:

wingrider
01-27-2012, 12:42 AM
if we weren't police 3/4 of the world and have 900 or so bases around the world we could cut our military to about 30 percent of what it currently is and with todays technology kick everyones ass

MMC
01-27-2012, 08:13 AM
Obama's Joint Chief agreed with the cuts in manpower too. Also Word is that Clinton wants out of the S.O.S. That she has told Obama and is waiting for him to pick another so that she can get out. Think she may possibly run against him as more and more Democrats are voting against him on his bills? Or do people think Obama has leveraged her and the party off?

As I was heaing the talk on the Econimic numbers on the way in this morning. They suddenly began talking about how there are 32 major elections going on across the planet this year. That how the EU Blastzone moved to the Sovereign debt crisis. That for the global market that these elections are key for leadership to take control of this sovereign debt crisis. The clincher was in speaking to all those Economic experts and Big Bankers are all in Davos(sp) Including Soros. Assessments about the American election were that Obama is expected to win and carry on current economic policies that have been instrumental in helping to stablilize the World markets. Despite Romney running for the Presidency. Also there was Obama's Former Economic Advisor Larry Summers.

What bothers me is they were all talking like this is assured as the convo went back to the EU Blastzone. Talking about how the ECB and the IMF are like acting in the same respect as our FED. Using Qunatative easing. But expect a 2% loss in GDP this year going into recession. What also bothers me is the Europeans attitude that the rest of the world has to come along an infuse their countries with money so that it wont affect other markets the world over. As if all it is assured and life goes on. Hey all must help to take care of them and in return they promise to keep things budgeted up and not to spend and to get rid of the waste? They havent done so for over 60 yrs and it's not going to change right away thinking they can spend their way out. Thats 10 yrs of them counting on big time money from us.

MMC
01-27-2012, 12:52 PM
Bump.....and just why are all these Demos jumping ship with Obama's Administration.

Mr. Burns
01-27-2012, 11:45 PM
Right, I'm all for reducing the expenses providing defense and enforcement for Europe and nations around the world. Those numbers still look plenty large enough to me. A small cutback is far less draining on our military than getting bogged down in pointless wars.

Beat me to it. Would much rather see the reduction of pointless and endless wars. Western military intervention only strengthens reactionary Islamists. Not as if putting McDonald's in Afghanistan is gonna help :p

MMC
01-28-2012, 01:12 AM
It doesnt matter what the west does. As far as strengthening reactionary Islamists the west doesnt have to do a damn thing. Inaction brings the same results and only strengthens their resolve that they cannot be defeated.

Peter1469
01-28-2012, 07:09 AM
History shows that Islam has attempted expansion about 4 times in its short history. Even if Islam again coalesced into a Caliphate it is unlikely that it could expand through offensive military action. About the only weapon that they know how to make is IEDs. They don't even manufacture their own assault rifles, much less tanks and airplanes. An you aren't going to succeed in an offensive military action against the West that way.

But I think that they know all they need to do is immigrate into the West, breed over the decades, and then use "democracy" to win their long war.

Thus, the West can ignore the Muslim lands (once we replace oil as a major transportation fuel), and can protect itself by not allowing Muslim immigration to the West. In fact many western Muslims may well need to be expelled.

MMC
01-28-2012, 07:31 AM
History shows that Islam has attempted expansion about 4 times in its short history. Even if Islam again coalesced into a Caliphate it is unlikely that it could expand through offensive military action. About the only weapon that they know how to make is IEDs. They don't even manufacture their own assault rifles, much less tanks and airplanes. An you aren't going to succeed in an offensive military action against the West that way.

But I think that they know all they need to do is immigrate into the West, breed over the decades, and then use "democracy" to win their long war.

Thus, the West can ignore the Muslim lands (once we replace oil as a major transportation fuel), and can protect itself by not allowing Muslim immigration to the West. In fact many western Muslims may well need to be expelled.

I believe that is the Sunni Plan myself Pete.....accept Democracy, use what they can and take what they can from it.....all the while still pushing their agenda. Even in the US they want to set up their own Gated Commnunites. Pay taxes and no one even knows whats going on. Pretty much operating by their law and their laws of Sharia and Islam.

What ya think about Clinton wanting out of Obama's Administration. He is trying to hold onto her as long as can, IMO. Moreover we need to get that Susan Rice out of the UN. What a waste a space she is. Btw Pete check out the thread in World Affiars. Egypt is deciding to hold Americans as well as interrogate them.

Peter1469
01-28-2012, 07:41 AM
I understand the Muslim threat. I would isolate them; I would make them not relevant (i.e. replace oil with alcohol fuels); I would expell Muslims from the West.

Once their oil income died off they would live the reality that they claim that they want; some 7th century paradise.

MMC
01-28-2012, 07:48 AM
I gotcha Pete and I know exactly what you mean. I wonder what Dubai will do when That Palm Island of Sand and the What they are calling the World gets hit by some earthquakes and all that turns into liquidfaction. Considering Dubai is where everybody else like to go and play now.

Peter1469
01-28-2012, 08:04 AM
NOPD

Not our problem dude

Conley
01-28-2012, 09:25 AM
History shows that Islam has attempted expansion about 4 times in its short history. Even if Islam again coalesced into a Caliphate it is unlikely that it could expand through offensive military action. About the only weapon that they know how to make is IEDs. They don't even manufacture their own assault rifles, much less tanks and airplanes. An you aren't going to succeed in an offensive military action against the West that way.

They don't need to manufacture those things when plenty of countries will sell to them. Look at the recent purchases by Saudia Arabia and Iraq. They do seem to be learning how to make their own nukes, which is a problem.

Conley
01-28-2012, 09:27 AM
I don't think the Muslim strategy is that calculated. Many live in crappy areas and want the peace and prosperity of the West. The problem is that many don't integrate or become productive members of society.

Peter1469
01-28-2012, 09:30 AM
They want peace and prosperity under Islamic law. Are you willing to submit?

Conley
01-28-2012, 09:55 AM
They want peace and prosperity under Islamic law. Are you willing to submit?

Definitely not.

MMC
01-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Definitely not.


:laugh: We thought that might change ya mind! :wink: Anyone else wondering why Clinton wants out now and not stick around for a second term?

jgreer
01-28-2012, 12:29 PM
I haven't heard Hillary wants out

Conley
01-28-2012, 12:34 PM
:laugh: We thought that might change ya mind! :wink: Anyone else wondering why Clinton wants out now and not stick around for a second term?

Change my mind about what?

MMC
01-28-2012, 12:57 PM
I haven't heard Hillary wants out

Well you should listen to that MSDNC so ya can gets the scoop on it. But regardless of your hearing. Why would she want out and not finish Obama's Second Term out?

Conley
01-28-2012, 12:59 PM
Well you should listen to that MSDNC so ya can gets the scoop on it. But regardless of your hearing. Why would she want out and not finish Obama's Second Term out?

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

MMC
01-28-2012, 01:00 PM
Change my mind about what?

Really you don't think the Sunni have any plans? What changes with their version of Democracy. As you can see they have not stopped the subjugation and the oppression of the Shia or Beduoin thats while acting like they are becoming civilized.. Course now getting in Libya allows them to go after the Berbers as well.

Conley
01-28-2012, 01:14 PM
No, I don't believe the Great Leader of the Sunnis has issued a commandment for tens of millions of uneducated to move to developed nations, breed like rabbits, and destroy them from the inside out. What you are describing happens in this country as well (and we have the same problems when it comes to illegals, only in our case they're not Sunnis). Poor people have tons of kids and rely on the state to support them. It's not some grand evil plan orchestrated by the Sunni Boogeyman.

MMC
01-28-2012, 01:35 PM
Well of course they don't consider themselves uneducated. But there is no way they would allow the Shia or any others to set up any sort of Caliphate over them. There is no plan to breed like jack rabbits. All others will submit or convert.

Just say for instance they could Dominate and Control the ME. No opposition. Think they stop there. It's like Pete stated 4 times they have tried. Each time they have failed!

Conley
01-28-2012, 02:04 PM
Well of course they don't consider themselves uneducated. But there is no way they would allow the Shia or any others to set up any sort of Caliphate over them. There is no plan to breed like jack rabbits. All others will submit or convert.

Just say for instance they could Dominate and Control the ME. No opposition. Think they stop there. It's like Pete stated 4 times they have tried. Each time they have failed!

Well sure, the Sunni and Shia hate each other. As to whether they try to conquer the world, who knows? I'm sure some have had such aspirations. As have the Brits, the Germans, Roman Civilization, etc. I'm not worried about it, it's not going to happen in our lifetime or any other's.

Conley
01-28-2012, 02:06 PM
If they were ever able to drive all of the West out of the Middle East (impossible) then I am sure they would not stop there. They would attempt to continue to expand their influence. However without that oil money coming in they have nothing, not even the means with which to buy the armaments they currently possess. After oil I think Saudi Arabia's biggest product is dates.

MMC
01-28-2012, 02:27 PM
What better way.....than to become Democratic and get their people into the west. Look they already have flooded Europe. Did they do it with a War? Conflict? Mass Migration?

Moreover it's not the Shia who Put up a Mosque's to identify their alleged Victories......The Shia cannot even appeal to the the rest of the World. All know where they stand. On the Outside Fringe of that fold. But now the Sunni thats a different story. It's not the Shia influencing Western Politics is it? Nor Elections into Western Governments. It's not a Shia King who Holds out his hands expecting Western man to kiss arse and kneel before them. My point is.....it's not the Shia learning to play the Game.

Did you miss the point with the Libya debachle. Qatar set up a Bank. Officially accepted by the banking World Now and by other Sovereign Nations. Thanks to the French backing that play with regards to making certain that the connection will include the IMF, and the ECB. Swiss Banks will now due to buisness with this Sunni Bank. Course the French were not the only ones. Also Italy!

Again it is not the Shia giving millions to that Global Initiative. Or Governments around the World.