The finally changed the name of that Confederate General School [Archive]

Codename Section

11-09-2013, 09:04 PM

http://news.msn.com/us/school-named-after-confederate-general-to-get-new-name/

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(?subject=School%20named%20after%20Confederate%20t o%20get%20new%20name&body=I%20thought%20you%20would%20be%20interested%2 0in%20this%20story%20I%20found%20on%20news.msn.com %3a%20School%20named%20after%20Confederate%20to%20 get%20new%20name%20(http%3a%2f%2fnews.msn.com%2fus %2fschool-named-after-confederate-general-to-get-new-name%2f%23tscptme))A school board in Florida decided to rename a high school honoring a Confederate general who became wealthy as a slave trader and was linked to the KKK.

JACKSONVILLE, Fla — A north Florida school board has voted unanimously to change the name of a local high school honoring a Confederate general who made a fortune as a slave trader and was linked to the Ku Klux Klan.

"It's time to move forward with the renaming of Nathan B. Forrest High. ... It's time to really put it to bed," said school board member Constance Hall, who asked the board to finally begin the process of changing the name.

Hall and the board's other African American member were joined in the 7-0 vote by four whites and a Hispanic member in voting to change the name.

Four Jacksonville schools are named after Confederate heroes, including Robert E. Lee High School, as well as the city's downtown square.

The school's name was chosen in 1959 at the suggestion of the Daughters of the Confederacy as the group readied for the 100th anniversary of Florida joining the Confederacy, at the start of the Civil War that pitted the pro-slavery southern states against President Abraham Lincoln and the Union army.

Changing the name of Nathan B. Forrest High School has come up several times. In 2008, the vote to keep the name broke along racial lines with two black members voting to change the name and five white board members voting against.

This time, a Jacksonville parent, Omotayo Richmond, took up the cause on social media with a change.org petition signed by more than 176,000 people, generating widespread media coverage and support from civil rights groups.

"Now is the time to right a historical wrong. African-American Jacksonville students shouldn't have to attend a high school named for someone who slaughtered and terrorized their ancestors for one more school year," Richmond wrote in his petition appeal.

The Wash

11-09-2013, 09:09 PM

Cthulhu

11-09-2013, 09:57 PM

Yet another example of how liberal feelings are more important than accurate history.

Lame.

Codename Section

11-09-2013, 10:03 PM

I think if it were a new school then we shouldn't pick a name like that. It's an older school and has some history attached to it. Tossup for me. Like devil said kids don't know their history.

The Wash

11-09-2013, 10:06 PM

I think if it were a new school then we shouldn't pick a name like that. It's an older school and has some history attached to it. Tossup for me. Like devil said kids don't know their history.

Dude you didn't know your history til I schooled you. btw, double points for Veterans Day weekend.

Cthulhu

11-09-2013, 10:29 PM

Dude you didn't know your history til I schooled you. btw, double points for Veterans Day weekend.

A number of restaurants will give vets a free meal on veteran's day. I am gonna hit up Applebee's.

Codename Section

11-09-2013, 10:36 PM

A number of restaurants will give vets a free meal on veteran's day. I am gonna hit up Applebee's.

Dammit.

Cthulhu

11-09-2013, 10:37 PM

Dammit.

Still OCONUS?

The Wash

11-09-2013, 10:40 PM

Still OCONUS?

Devil's BGing and I'm CODing. :D

BB-35

11-09-2013, 10:42 PM

Dammit.

I'm going to find a poppy to buy in honor of my great uncle Isaiah,who never left France,or Flanders fields..

Cthulhu

11-09-2013, 10:44 PM

Dude you didn't know your history til I schooled you. btw, double points for Veterans Day weekend.

Speaking of history...This is a problem of not knowing it-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=646JG5MlTao#t=140

And that going on long enough leads to this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmm9uB1VHY0

Now admittedly, I don't know the history behind both videos, but both are fairly good representations of negative stereotypes propagated and sustained by certain interested parties to keep us from actually solving our problems.

The Wash

11-09-2013, 10:49 PM

Black folk got it all wrong today. Do you think you'd see Malcolm X talking like these fools? James Farmer? Dr. King? Awww, hell naw. You can be poor. You can be from the hood. You can even be country. You don't need to act the fool. Act the fool around me and I'm going to tell you. Black or white I'm setting the record straight.

GrassrootsConservative

11-09-2013, 10:55 PM

Speaking of history...This is a problem of not knowing it-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=646JG5MlTao#t=140

And that going on long enough leads to this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmm9uB1VHY0

Now admittedly, I don't know the history behind both videos, but both are fairly good representations of negative stereotypes propagated and sustained by certain interested parties to keep us from actually solving our problems.

Wow. The guy in that second video... what a moron...

"We're no longer in the 60's, we have rights now, Obama's the president."

What a total stooge. Someone tell him his rights DO NOT come from Obama.

The Wash

11-09-2013, 11:02 PM

That dude has not given me a single right that I have. In fact, he has taken rights away.

Dr. Who

11-09-2013, 11:36 PM

Wow. The guy in that second video... what a moron...

"We're no longer in the 60's, we have rights now, Obama's the president."

What a total stooge. Someone tell him his rights DO NOT come from Obama.

Sadly when people don't believe that they have ever had rights, or believe that the rights that others enjoy don't apply to them, they might come to that conclusion. Wash is right, it's about education. Something happened post sixties. Perhaps it was the welfare schemes that turned some people into sheep and stole their pride and then with substandard education they forgot what Martin Luther King and others were fighting for. It wasn't for a free ride, it was for the same opportunity to work and live as anyone else. That was lost on some. Never known by many now. Back in the latter part of the 19th century and the first part of the 20th century, black people fought for the right to be educated and were not put off by a racist society. They made their own educational institutions, their own towns and their own businesses and resolved not to be relegated to bottom of society. What happened to that determination? I think it was the same elitist mentality that marginalized the native community in the guise of "HELPING". People are not that much different than the animal kingdom. If we take them out of a natural environment and make them dependant, they lose the ability to survive on their own. We have done that to people all over the world. It doesn't matter what race or ethnicity. It doesn't mean that we should abolish welfare, but it does mean that we have to equip people to get out of welfare, to know who they are, and to have enough pride and determination to change their lives.

Peter1469

11-09-2013, 11:49 PM

If it is a new school they should be naming it after a fallen hero from our current wars (or maybe me). To avoid controversy.

Dr. Who

11-09-2013, 11:54 PM

If it is a new school they should be naming it after a fallen hero from our current wars (or maybe me). To avoid controversy.Hmm.... PS Peter1469 would be a funny name for a school - LOL.

GrassrootsConservative

11-10-2013, 12:09 AM

If it is a new school they should be naming it after a fallen hero from our current wars (or maybe me). To avoid controversy.

What about Seal Team Six High School?

That has a good ring to it.

Wait, nevermind. I'm sure if Obama thought he were naming it after someone important in the demise of that evil, evil man he'd just call it Barack Obama High School.

Peter1469

11-10-2013, 12:33 AM

A number of restaurants will give vets a free meal on veteran's day. I am gonna hit up Applebee's.

Balleys in Arlington is. At least for burgers.

Peter1469

11-10-2013, 12:33 AM

Hmm.... PS Peter1469 would be a funny name for a school - LOL.

How so? :cool2:

Peter1469

11-10-2013, 12:35 AM

What about Seal Team Six High School?

That has a good ring to it.

Wait, nevermind. I'm sure if Obama thought he were naming it after someone important in the demise of that evil, evil man he'd just call it Barack Obama High School.

I was thinking about the first casualty of the Afghan war. Of course I am available as a back up.

GrassrootsConservative

11-10-2013, 12:40 AM

I was thinking about the first casualty of the Afghan war. Of course I am available as a back up.

You can't be, though.

You said "fallen" and you most certainly aren't dead.

Peter1469

11-10-2013, 12:47 AM

You can't be, though.

You said "fallen" and you most certainly aren't dead.

Not yet. Just a backup. I live to serve.

Dr. Who

11-10-2013, 01:09 AM

Not yet. Just a backup. I live to serve.

I guess I'll never understand wanting to serve a duplicitous government. I get the camaraderie, but not the rest.

Peter1469

11-10-2013, 01:32 AM

I guess I'll never understand wanting to serve a duplicitous government. I get the camaraderie, but not the rest.

It is all I know.

Chloe

11-10-2013, 05:39 AM

jillian

11-10-2013, 07:00 AM

kilgram

11-10-2013, 08:32 AM

See now I know you're trying to mess with me. I'll bite. Black kids have no concept of their history aside from "back in slavery days" and all they know about that is that blacks were slaves. If we erase history like this all they will ever know is that whites did some shit and be done with it. I could see if if half them kids could read a book about this guy but our schools put out some of the dumbest black kids in the last 50 years. We need to understand our roots even if our roots are sour because that generation of slaves produced four generations of blacks that rose from the ashes and did something with their lives. This dude may have been a racist cracker but that's history. I think if they were going to rename the school they should have made those kids write a paper on why.
One thing is honouring something and other is teaching history.

The name of the school was in honour of that person, a person that should not have any kind of honour. But he should not be forgotten, because if you forget the history, you can repeat it again.

So again don't confuse understanding the roots with giving honours to people like him.

I am going to give a populist example, but it is the easiest to understand. Do you imagine in Germany naming schools with names of the members of the NAZI party? Do you think they deserve that honour? No. But did they forget that part of history? No, they study it, in history.

nathanbforrest45

11-10-2013, 08:46 AM

Isn't it wonderful that now the failing black students at the former Nathan Bedford Forrest High School can have a lesbian black woman as a role model. Forrest should not have been renamed, it should have been torn down and its students dispersed to other schools that cared more about education than about historical lies.

jillian

11-10-2013, 09:08 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:13 AM

no governmental entity (e.g., a school) should honor someone who committed treason and was an avowed racist grand wizard of the KKK.

nor should they honor other "avowed racists" (e.g. just about everyone prior to the 1940s). lol no more schools named after slaveholders like Washington and Jefferson!

Codename Section

11-10-2013, 10:20 AM

President Johnson still called them "Nigras". Ever listen to the tapes of the dude who churned out the war on poverty?

jillian

11-10-2013, 10:37 AM

President Johnson still called them "Nigras". Ever listen to the tapes of the dude who churned out the war on poverty?

and? he also got the civil rights law passed.

which is why the south stopped voting dem and now belongs to the GOP.

jillian

11-10-2013, 10:38 AM

nor should they honor other "avowed racists" (e.g. just about everyone prior to the 1940s). lol no more schools named after slaveholders like Washington and Jefferson!

were any of them grand wizards of the kkk?

thanks for playing.

Chris

11-10-2013, 10:38 AM

I think some are confused about Forrest's history with the KKK, especially those liberals who like to scream racist racist racist!

Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest and the KKK (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/palmsprings_200801A41.html)

...Meanwhile, in Pulaski, Tennessee, six Confederate veterans had formed, as a lark, a secret society that they whimsically dubbed the Ku Klux Klan (from the Greek word for circle, kuklos — they evidently liked the mystical ring of the alliterated k's.) At first, the six men and their recruits undertook non-violent, theatrical stunts to frighten back into line the freed slaves just beginning to assert their new rights. But soon enough, more men joined the KKK and, as Republican efforts to rehabilitate Southern society grew more concerted, the KKK became a violent, marauding organization whose individual "dens" answered to no centralized authority. Society was changing quickly, and the KKK was trying to slow the pace. Bodies of freedmen, their white supporters, and Republicans began to litter the roadside.

It was at about this time that Forrest, learning of the KKK, expressed a desire to join. The eminent recruit was elected grand wizard, the Klan's highest official, and tried to bring the rapidly multiplying dens under a centralized authority — his own. Forrest probably did not object to the violence, per se, as a means of restoring the pre-war hierarchy, but as a military man, he deplored the lack of discipline and structure that defined the growing KKK. In its methods and aims, the KKK was merely the avenging ghost of the Confederate army. To Forrest's dismay, though, it was not an army that he could command.

After only a year as Grand Wizard, in January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve — in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school — and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan. A new, different, and much worse Klan would emerge, 35 years after Forrest's death, in the wake of D.W. Griffith's revolutionary 1915 film, Birth of a Nation, a reactionary screed with a racialist brief that had been expanded to include Catholics and immigrants of all kinds. The second Klan was never restricted to the South; its goals had nothing to do with Forrest's vision of a restored Dixie....

More @ http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/18622-The-finally-changed-the-name-of-that-Confederate-General-School?p=419474&viewfull=1#post419474

Codename Section

11-10-2013, 10:40 AM

and? he also got the civil rights law passed.

which is why the south stopped voting dem and now belongs to the GOP.

Doesn't prove they are not racists. I've heard more dudes from Boston, blue collar types, say nigger more than I heard in Mississippi. Democrats wanted a voting block and got it.

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:41 AM

were any of them grand wizards of the kkk?

thanks for playing.

Worse actually. Slaveholders. lol

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:43 AM

Doesn't prove they are not racists. I've heard more dudes from Boston, blue collar types, say nigger more than I heard in Mississippi. Democrats wanted a voting block and got it.

northerners overwhelmingly rejected integration (e.g. forced busing). The reaction was particularly fierce in Boston.

oceanloverOH

11-10-2013, 10:43 AM

A number of restaurants will give vets a free meal on veteran's day. I am gonna hit up Applebee's.

Ooooo, I forgot about Applebees' free meals on Veterans' Day. Last year I went in for lunch and had a big juicy Cowboy Burger.....soooo good!

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:44 AM

I think some are confused about Forrest's history with the KKK, especially those liberals who like to scream racist racist racist!

Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest and the KKK (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/palmsprings_200801A41.html)

In 1875, Forrest demonstrated that his personal sentiments on the issue of race now differed from that of the Klan, when he was invited to give a speech before an organization of black Southerners advocating racial reconciliation, called the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association. At this, his last public appearance, he made what the New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times) described as a "friendly speech"[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest#cite_note-nytimes.com-10) during which, when offered a bouquet of flowers by a black woman, he accepted them as a token of reconciliation between the races and espoused a radically progressive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism) (for the time) agenda of equality and harmony between black and white Americans.[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest#cite_note-54) His speech was as follows:

"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. ( Immense applause and laughter.) This day is a day that is proud to me, having occupied the position that I did for the past twelve years, and been misunderstood by your race. This is the first opportunity I have had during that time to say that I am your friend. I am here a representative of the southern people, one more slandered and maligned than any man in the nation. I will say to you and to the colored race that men who bore arms and followed the flag of the Confederacy are, with very few exceptions, your friends. I have an opportunity of saying what I have always felt - that I am your friend, for my interests are your interests, and your interests are my interests. We were born on the same soil, breathe the same air, and live in the same land. Why, then, can we not live as brothers? I will say that when the war broke out I felt it my duty to stand by my people. When the time came I did the best I could, and I don't believe I flickered. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe that I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to bring about peace. It has always been my motto to elevate every man- to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, that you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand." (Prolonged applause.)

:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest#Ku_Klux_Klan_Membership

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:45 AM

Ooooo, I forgot about Applebees' free meals on Veterans' Day. Last year I went in for lunch and had a big juicy Cowboy Burger.....soooo good!

Ewwww

Agravan

11-10-2013, 10:49 AM

were any of them grand wizards of the kkk?

thanks for playing.

Robert Byrd, (D)

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:49 AM

Anyway, so I'm sure test scores will improve dramatically now that black students won't be so traumatized.

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:49 AM

Robert Byrd, (D)

Ouch

oceanloverOH

11-10-2013, 10:49 AM

Ewwww

Oh, I forgot you're into healthier food now, Mister D. Come to lunch with me....I'm sure they can rustle up a tofuburger for you.

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:50 AM

Oh, I forgot you're into healthier food now, @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4). Come to lunch with me....I'm sure they can rustle up a tofuburger for you.

I don't eat tofu! :angry: Unless it was humanely raised. :grin:

The Wash

11-10-2013, 10:51 AM

Balleys in Arlington is. At least for burgers.

It is? I'm there dude.

Chris

11-10-2013, 10:51 AM

Nathan Bedford Forrest (http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00158/nathanbedfordforrest.html)

Forrest is recognized to have been a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. He did not support lynching by KKK members and believed that the Klan was a noble and honorable group. Forrest was troubled when the Klan’s actions changed from its original purpose as a helpful and admirable group. For these reasons he called for the Klan to disband.

NATHAN BEDFORD FORREST (http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/chron/civilwarnotes/forrest.html)

Embittered by the state of his homeland after the war, in May 1866, Forrest became "Grand Wizard" of the Ku Klux Klan, an organization of Confederate veterans. Because of Forrest's prominence, the organization grew rapidly under his leadership. In addition to aiding Confederate widows and orphans of the war, many members of the new group began to use force to oppose the extension of voting rights to blacks, and to resist Reconstruction-introduced measures for the ending of segregation. In 1869, Forrest, disagreeing with its increasingly violent tactics, ordered the Klan to disband. However, many of its groups in other parts of the country ignored the order and continued to function.

Forrest returned to private business in the Memphis area and remained engaged in such for the rest of his life. In his final years, Forrest encouraged his followers to live in peace with the freed slaves who lived among them.

Nathan Bedford Forrest and Racial Reconciliation (http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/08/06/nathan-bedford-forrest-and-racial-reconciliation/)

In 1875 Forrest was invited to address a meeting of the Independent Order of Pole Bearers, an early black civil rights organization in Memphis, at their Fourth of July barbecue on July 5. Forrest was told by many whites that he should not accept, but Forrest went. Just before he spoke he was presented a bouquet of flowers by Miss Flora Lewis, a daughter of one of the members of the Pole Bearers. Here is Forrest’s speech.

“Ladies and Gentlemen, I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the Southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God’s earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself.

(Immense applause and laughter.)

I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man, to depress none.

(Applause.)

I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don’t propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I’ll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand.”

(Prolonged applause.)

After the speech Forrest thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and kissed her on the cheek. This type of familiarity between the races in public was almost unheard of at the time. Forrest’s speech was probably motivated by his desire to become a Christian. As his health faltered and his time on Earth grew short, Forrest sought to make amends for some of his deeds, and I think this speech was part of his attempt. This speech was also the last appearance at a public event by Forrest as a speaker.

Mister D

11-10-2013, 10:54 AM

What's funny is that in some ways Forrest was "ahead" of his times. :smiley:

Chris

11-10-2013, 10:54 AM

and? he also got the civil rights law passed.

which is why the south stopped voting dem and now belongs to the GOP.

Yes, he fought tooth and nail against filibustering Democrats to do so.

The Wash

11-10-2013, 10:56 AM

I dont think its a bad thing that they changed the name of that shcool really. Theres no real redeeming qualities about that guy from what ive read and his name was chosen during a time when racism was a live and well. I also dont understand why out of all the confederate people to pick a name from they would choose a slave trading KKK person but thats what they did. Yes the guy is part of history but so are so many other better and more admirable people. I know that nobody is perfect and a lot of historical people that we name schools and buildings after had some questionable points of view also, but come on, this guy is not worth defending, change the name and let the school start fresh in my opinion.

It isn't like this is a brand new school. In that case I would agree. We will go to this much trouble to get a name changed so we won't be "offended" but look at the results coming out of Florida's SL tests. That is what we should be offended by. During the Zimmerman trial I looked at that girl on the stand and shook my head at how dumb she sounded. That's an embarrassment for me because I know some dumbass white people will start commenting on "black people" and use her, not me as an example of how we talk and act.

Like it or not racism is a part of our history, and it should not be forgotten. Covering it up like catshit is rewriting history like it didn't happen. Back in the 50's some white folks wanted to name a school after a racist. That's history. Changing it erases that history so we don't have to confront it.

The Wash

11-10-2013, 11:00 AM

and? he also got the civil rights law passed.

which is why the south stopped voting dem and now belongs to the GOP.

Johnson was a racist. Democrats like to act like they aren't racists too but they are racists no differently. They feel like we can't do shit for ourselves and if we don't have help we can't manage. I managed. I managed to walk down to a recruiters office an get myself a job and experience.

If Dr. King or Malcolm X were still alive (and we all know why they aren't) they wouldn't have none of this shit coming out of Washington today.

Agravan

11-10-2013, 11:00 AM

It does not matter what Forrest's intent or reason for joining the Klan was. To a liberal, he will always be marked as racist because their propaganda tells them that the Klan (that they, themselves, created) is comprised of nothing but racists and everyone, except Democrats, of course, associated with it must be vilified.

As far as Forrest being a traitor, jilian, he was a patriot. The Southern states seceded, as was (and is) their right. Forrest is no more a traitor than Lincoln was for foisting and waging a war on the American people. As your current Dear Leader is also doing.

Cthulhu

11-10-2013, 11:17 AM

Like it or not racism is a part of our history, and it should not be forgotten. Covering it up like catshit is rewriting history like it didn't happen. Back in the 50's some white folks wanted to name a school after a racist. That's history. Changing it erases that history so we don't have to confront it.

Exactly. History might not be rosy and sunshiny all the time. But future generations will not learn from past generations if we are rewriting the records to salve our consciences. The name should have been kept, so that way it would stand as a testament of how far we've come.

You'd think it was a victory for black people to be graduating at an institution that was named after an alleged racist to dislike them.

All in all, it is just another example of keeping racial tensions difficult when nothing of real substance can be used.

The Wash

11-10-2013, 11:28 AM

Exactly. History might not be rosy and sunshiny all the time. But future generations will not learn from past generations if we are rewriting the records to salve our consciences. The name should have been kept, so that way it would stand as a testament of how far we've come.

You'd think it was a victory for black people to be graduating at an institution that was named after an alleged racist to dislike them.

All in all, it is just another example of keeping racial tensions difficult when nothing of real substance can be used.

Good point. Black folk have had skewed priorities sold to them. Back in the 60's black men put on their suits and walked out tall for their community. We were dignified and reaching for the stars. We were working towards being intellectuals and really fighting the system. We knew our enemy. Now we're a bunch of clowns acting like fools over a school's name instead of worrying about what's the curriculum of the school or how well it educates our children.

AmazonTania

11-10-2013, 11:29 AM

At least they have swag....

The Wash

11-10-2013, 11:30 AM

The Wash

11-10-2013, 11:30 AM

At least they have swag....

I got more than swag.

Agravan

11-10-2013, 11:36 AM

Robert E. Lee freed his slaves. At the point of the war Nathan B. Forrest could have done the same. He was a racist elite and his reasons for secession were about economics. He wanted to continue to make money off the enslavement of human beings.
As I said, the reasons don't matter to libs. Remind them that it was their party that formed the KKK and they go ballistic.

Dr. Who

11-10-2013, 12:06 PM

It is all I know.

No it's not. You're a lawyer. You have a life apart from the military.

Chris

11-10-2013, 12:15 PM

Robert E. Lee freed his slaves. At the point of the war Nathan B. Forrest could have done the same. He was a racist elite and his reasons for secession were about economics. He wanted to continue to make money off the enslavement of human beings.

That's what I read too, that even after the war, he thought the place of blacks was to work for whites. It was only over time that he changed his views.

nathanbforrest45

11-10-2013, 01:53 PM

and? he also got the civil rights law passed.

which is why the south stopped voting dem and now belongs to the GOP.

I would suggest you check out history a bit closer. It was the Republicans that had the 1964 Civil Rights Act passed. Not the Democrats

And this is the last history lesson I will attempt to give to the extremely close minded

nathanbforrest45

11-10-2013, 01:58 PM

Robert E. Lee freed his slaves. At the point of the war Nathan B. Forrest could have done the same. He was a racist elite and his reasons for secession were about economics. He wanted to continue to make money off the enslavement of human beings.
He did free his slaves. He told them that any that wanted to come with him on his campaigns could and they would be freed as a result. Forrest main wealth came not from slave trading, although he did do that, but from owning a cotton plantation.

nathanbforrest45

11-10-2013, 02:02 PM

That's what I read too, that even after the war, he thought the place of blacks was to work for whites. It was only over time that he changed his views.
Well, you read wrong but no matter what other information may be available those who vilify Forrest will do so no matter what.

To me, he was one of the greatest calvary officers this country has ever produced. He won more of his battles and lost fewer of his and the enemies men than another general in the Civil War. His main tactic was to trick the enemy into thinking he had more troops than he actually did and get them to surrender. When they would not he was not afraid to go after them and actually lead from the front standing as high as he could in his saddle. His men loved him.

He originally was opposed to secession but when federal troops invaded the Southern states he offered his services and raised his own army to fight the "invasion"

nathanbforrest45

11-10-2013, 02:06 PM

By the way, Sherman was responsible directly and indirectly for the deaths of more freed slaves than Forrest or any other confederate office. Sherman destroyed the land, leaving the freed slaves with no way to house, clothe or feed themselves. Many died from that. He also refused to allow them to accompany him to safety out of Georgia with many drowning while trying to follow him into South Carolina. So, please don't bother with bringing up Ft Pillow because whatever the true death toll may be there it pales along side Shermans Death March.

Codename Section

11-10-2013, 02:33 PM

nathanbforrest45

11-10-2013, 08:04 PM

Doesn't change the fact that he was a slave owner at a time when the abolitionists had been making a case for freeing human beings. There were those who fought for independence and those who fought for economics. He was part of the latter unlike General Lee.

You know not of what you speak. He fought because he believed, as many did on both sides of the war, in the sovereignty of the individual states. When the North sent troops into Southern territory is when he took up arms. Prior to that he wanted to remain in the Union. Lee didn't fight for "Independence" any more than Forrest did. Both believed the individual states were already independent. Both were fighting to protect their states.

Many people were slave holders, including many Northerners who owned plantations in the South. Despite what everyone wants to tell you the war was not specifically about slavery. It was about the right of the federal government to impose laws on the states. Slavery was, not unlike charges of racism today, nothing more than a rallying cry to stir up the people. Neither North nor South really gave a damn about the slaves. The North treated its "freemen" far worse than the South who at least did feed and clothe them. The North did no such thing. It worked them for slave wages and then charged them high prices for their basic needs.

I am in no way condoning slavery. Slavery is an abomination on the face of the earth but I am saying you are looking at 19th century America though a 21st century lens.

ptif219

11-10-2013, 09:33 PM

Yet another example of how liberal feelings are more important than accurate history.

Lame.

They didn't want people to know he was a democrat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

In 1858, Forrest (a Democrat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Democratic_Party_%28United_States%2 9#Civil_War.2C_Reconstruction.2C_and_the_Gilded_Ag e:_1854.E2.80.931896)), was elected as a Memphis city alderman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderman).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest#cite_note-8) Forrest supported his mother and put his younger brothers through college. By the time the American Civil War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War) started in 1861, he was a millionaire and one of the richest men in the South (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States), having amassed a "personal fortune that he claimed was worth $1.5 million".[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest#cite_note-9)

Cthulhu

11-10-2013, 11:21 PM

They didn't want people to know he was a democrat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

Well that is an awkward tidbit of information now isn't it?

Akula

04-08-2014, 05:48 AM

They'll probably re name it the "Nelson Mandela School of African American and Gender Neutrality Studies" or some other afro centrist nonsense.

nathanbforrest45

04-08-2014, 06:15 AM

They'll probably re name it the "Nelson Mandela School of African American and Gender Neutrality Studies" or some other afro centrist nonsense.

Robert E Lee High School is the next to go.

Captain Obvious

04-08-2014, 07:53 AM

What people don't understand is that many in the south are proud of their heritage, the confederacy to many stood for heritage, not slavery.

It's just the redneck poser bigoted dumbshits who use confederate flags as symbol for bigotry that make that connection.

And we know who they are.

Akula

04-08-2014, 07:55 AM

vulgar, ignorant and juvenile...You won the trifecta.

Ravi

04-08-2014, 07:56 AM

Captain Obvious

04-08-2014, 07:58 AM

What heritage, exactly?

Everything else besides slavery.

Really?

Ravi

04-08-2014, 07:59 AM

Everything else besides slavery.

Really?I'm being serious. The flag represents the confederacy, a group of states that wanted out of the USA so they could continue to enslave black people. What other heritage do you speak of?

Akula

04-08-2014, 08:01 AM

http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/jamesedwards/pat-buchanan-hatred-south-hatred-america/

“This was a recognition of American terrorists.”

That is CNN’s summary judgment of the 258,000 men and boys who fell fighting for the Confederacy in a war that cost as many American lives as World Wars I and II, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq combined.

CNN reflects the hysteria that seized Obamaville on hearing that Gov. Bob McDonnell (in 2010) had declared Confederate History Month in the Old Dominion. Virginia leads the nation in Civil War battlefields.

So loud was the howling that in 24 hours McDonnell had backpedaled and issued an apology that he had not mentioned slavery.

Unfortunately, the governor missed a teaching moment.
Slavery was indeed evil, but it existed in the Americas a century before the oldest of our founding fathers was even born.

Five of our first seven presidents were slaveholders.

But Virginia did not secede in defense of slavery. Indeed, when Abraham Lincoln was inaugurated, March 4, 1861, Virginia was still in the Union. Only South Carolina, Georgia and the five Gulf states had seceded and created the Confederate States of America.

At the firing on Fort Sumter, April 12-13, 1861, the first shots of the Civil War, Virginia was still inside the Union. Indeed, there were more slave states in the Union than in the Confederacy. But, on April 15, Lincoln issued a call for 75,000 volunteers from the state militias to march south and crush the new Confederacy.
Two days later, April 17, Virginia seceded rather than provide soldiers or militia to participate in a war on their brethren. North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas followed Virginia out over the same issue. They would not be a party to a war on their kinfolk.

Slavery was not the cause of this war. Secession was—that and Lincoln’s determination to drown the nation in blood if necessary to make the Union whole again.
Nor did Lincoln ever deny it.
In his first inaugural, Lincoln sought to appease the states that had seceded by endorsing a constitutional amendment to make slavery permanent in the 15 states where it then existed. He even offered to help the Southern states run down fugitive slaves.

In 1862, Lincoln wrote Horace Greeley that if he could restore the Union without freeing one slave he would do it. The Emancipation Proclamation of Jan. 1, 1863, freed only those slaves Lincoln had no power to free—those still under Confederate rule. As for slaves in the Union states of Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri, they remained the property of their owners.

As for “terrorists,” no army fought more honorably than Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia. Few deny that.
The great terrorist in that war was William Tecumseh Sherman, (http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/3/Dickson319-344.html) who violated all the known rules of war by looting, burning and pillaging on his infamous March to the Sea from Atlanta to Savannah. Sherman would later be given command of the war against the Plains Indians and advocate extermination of the Sioux.

“The only good Indian is a dead Indian” is attributed both to Sherman and Gen. Phil Sheridan, who burned the Shenandoah and carried out Sherman’s ruthless policy against the Indians. Both have statues and circles named for them in Washington, D.C.

If CNN thinks Sherman a hero, it might study what happened to the slave women of Columbia, S.C., when “Uncle Billy’s” boys in blue arrived to burn the city.

What of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, at whose request McDonnell issued his proclamation? What racist deeds have they perpetrated of late?

They tend the graves of Confederate dead and place flags on Memorial Day. They contributed to the restoration of the home of Jefferson Davis, damaged by Hurricane Katrina. They publish the Confederate Veteran, a magazine that relates stories of the ancestors they love to remember. They join environmentalists in fighting to preserve Civil War battlefields. They do re-enactments of Civil War battles with men and boys whose ancestors fought for the Union. And they defend the monuments to their ancestors and the flag under which they fought.

Why are they vilified?
Because they are Southern white Christian men—none of whom defends slavery, but all of whom are defiantly proud of the South, its ancient faith and their forefathers who fell in the Lost Cause.

Undeniably, the Civil War ended in the abolition of slavery and restoration of the Union. But the Southern states believed they had the same right to rid themselves of a government to which they no longer felt allegiance as did Washington, Jefferson and Madison, all slave-owners, who could no longer give loyalty to the king of England.
Consider closely this latest skirmish in a culture war that may yet make an end to any idea of nationhood, and you will see whence the real hate is coming. It is not from Gov. McDonnell or the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Akula

04-08-2014, 08:05 AM

I'm being serious. The flag represents the confederacy, a group of states that wanted out of the USA so they could continue to enslave black people. What other heritage do you speak of?

You went to public school, right?

That's not why the war was fought.
LMAO...you really think that 300,000 poor white southerners would fight to allow a few rich people to own slaves?

Simplistic idiocy.

Read some history when you get a chance...do some critical thinking.

Ravi

04-08-2014, 08:09 AM

You went to public school, right?

That's not why the war was fought.
LMAO...you really think that 300,000 poor white southerners would fight to allow a few rich people to own slaves?

Simplistic idiocy.

Read some history when you get a chance...do some critical thinking.
Are you kidding me? The GOP supporters currently support idiotic politicians that only care about corporations and the 1%....why would you expect the South to be more advanced back then?

Only idiots pretend the civil war wasn't about slavery.

Akula

04-08-2014, 08:21 AM

Are you kidding me? The GOP supporters currently support idiotic politicians that only care about corporations and the 1%....why would you expect the South to be more advanced back then?

non sequitur and a weak attempt to distract..

Only idiots pretend the civil war wasn't about slavery.

So you haven't read any history.

Even lincoln knew the war wasn't about slavery.

Here ya go...Direct quotes from the people who were there and participating in the events....

"But what am I to do in the meantime with those men at Montgomery [meaning the Confederate constitutional convention]? Am I to let them go on... [a]nd open Charleston, etc., as ports of entry, with their ten-percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?" ~ Lincoln to Colonel John B. Baldwin, deputized by the Virginian Commissioners to determine whether Lincoln would use force, April 4, 1861.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this as of many other evils....The quarrel between the North and South is, as it stands, solely a fiscal quarrel".... Charles Dickens in a London periodical in December 1861

"The contest is really for empire on the side of the North and for independence on that of the South....". ..... London Times of 7 Nov 1861

"Slavery is not the cause of the rebellion ....Slavery is the pretext on which the leaders of the rebellion rely, 'to fire the Southern Heart' and through which the greatest degree of unanimity can be produced....Mr. Calhoun, after finding that the South could not be brought into sufficient unanimity by a clamor about the tariff, selected slavery as the better subject for agitation"..... North American Review (Boston October 1862)

"They [the South] know that it is their import trade that draws from the people's pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interests....These are the reasons why these people [the North] do not wish the South to secede from the Union." ..... New Orleans Daily Crescent 21 January 1861

"In one single blow our foreign commerce must be reduced to less than one-half what it now is. Our coastwise trade would pass into other hands. One-half of our shipping would lie idle at our wharves. We should lose our trade with the South, with all of its immense profits. Our manufactories would be in utter ruins. Let the South adopt the free-trade system, or that of a tariff for revenue, and these results would likely follow." .... Chicago Daily Times December 1860

"At once shut down every Southern port, destroy its commerce and bring utter ruin on the Confederate States." ..... NY Times 22 March 1861

"the mask has been thrown off and it is apparent that the people of the principal seceding states are now for commercial independence. They dream that the centres of traffic can be changed from Northern to Southern ports....by a revenue system verging on free trade...." .... Boston Transcript 18 March 1861

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail ; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "

Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to Gustavus Fox, May 1, 1861

"The affair at Fort Sumter, it seems to us, has been planned as a means by which the war feeling at the North should be intensified, and the administration thus receive popular support for its policy.... If the armament which lay outside the harbor, while the fort was being battered to pieces [the US ship The Harriet Lane, and seven other reinforcement ships], had been designed for the relief of Major Anderson, it certainly would have made a show of fulfilling its mission. But it seems plain to us that no such design was had. The administration, virtually, to use a homely illustration, stood at Sumter like a boy with a chip on his shoulder, daring his antagonist to knock it off. The Carolinians have knocked off the chip. War is inaugurated, and the design of the administration accomplished." ~ The Buffalo Daily Courier, April 16, 1861.

"We have no doubt, and all the circumstances prove, that it was a cunningly devised scheme, contrived with all due attention to scenic display and intended to arouse, and, if possible, exasperate the northern people against the South.... We venture to say a more gigantic conspiracy against the principles of human liberty and freedom has never been concocted. Who but a fiend could have thought of sacrificing the gallant Major Anderson and his little band in order to carry out a political game? Yet there he was compelled to stand for thirty-six hours amid a torrent of fire and shell, while the fleet sent to assist him, coolly looked at his flag of distress and moved not to his assistance! Why did they not? Perhaps the archives in Washington will yet tell the tale of this strange proceeding.... Pause then, and consider before you endorse these mad men who are now, under pretense of preserving the Union, doing the very thing that must forever divide it." ~ The New York Evening Day-Book, April 17, 1861.

1751_Texan

04-08-2014, 08:22 AM

See now I know you're trying to mess with me. I'll bite. Black kids have no concept of their history aside from "back in slavery days" and all they know about that is that blacks were slaves. If we erase history like this all they will ever know is that whites did some shit and be done with it. I could see if if half them kids could read a book about this guy but our schools put out some of the dumbest black kids in the last 50 years. We need to understand our roots even if our roots are sour because that generation of slaves produced four generations of blacks that rose from the ashes and did something with their lives. This dude may have been a racist cracker but that's history. I think if they were going to rename the school they should have made those kids write a paper on why.

Changing the name does not in any way negate history or appese black kids. Black kids take American history just like all the other kids. There is no indication that black kids suffer form any lack of history knowledge than any other American kid.

Ask any random 1000 US kids who N.B. Forrest was and I guarrantee a majority wouldn't have a clue. To hold black kids to a different standard is illogical. American history is all our history; renaming a school in Florida does not change history.

If American kids are failing in American history knowledge, then there should be a concerted effort to improve.

Akula

04-08-2014, 08:26 AM

Changing the name does not in any way negate history or appese black kids. Black kids take American history just like all the other kids. There is no indication that black kids suffer form any lack of history knowledge than any other American kid.

Ask any random 1000 US kids who N.B. Forrest was and I guarrantee a majority wouldn't have a clue. To hold black kids to a different standard is illogical. American history is all our history; renaming a school in Florida does not change history.

If American kids are failing in American history knowledge, then there should be a concerted effort to improve.

years of SAT scores don't support that position. At all.

Captain Obvious

04-08-2014, 08:27 AM

Captain Obvious

04-08-2014, 08:28 AM

And here is where Akula turns this into a "black people suck" thread.

... yay

Akula

04-08-2014, 08:32 AM

And here is where Akula turns this into a "black people suck" thread.

... yay

Exaggeration is your only tool, apparently.

Address the issue...if you can.

The war wasn't fought to preserve (or abolish) slavery. Only the truly ignorant could possibly believe that....I even have a quote by lincoln acknowledging it...yet...typically..you ignore the substance and attack the messenger.
You're about as "deep" as a birdbath.

Ravi

04-08-2014, 08:33 AM

I guess you'll have to ask them.

I recognize it sort of and I think that sentiment is commonly misunderstood by many.
I've asked a few and never got a reasonable answer.

1751_Texan

04-08-2014, 08:40 AM

years of SAT scores don't support that position. At all.

SAT does not measure the populace as a whole. Knowledge is more than a board exam. If you base the nation's intelligence on a test...that is shortsighted, narrowly focused and expedient.

If you base an ethinc group's intelligence on a test...then that is easily explained by the CSA flag as your avatar.

Akula

04-08-2014, 09:00 AM

SAT does not measure the populace as a whole.
no one said it did. SAT has a valid purpose and the demographics don't lie, though.

Knowledge is more than a board exam. If you base the nation's intelligence on a test...that is shortsighted, narrowly focused and expedient.

IQ does measure intelligence, however and there are stark differences between negroid, asian and caucasian scores....but we aren't discussing that right now.

If you base an ethinc group's intelligence on a test
An SAT test is ONE indicator...an IQ test is another. They are accepted nationwide (SAT) and worldwide (IQ tests)as the standard for measuring intelligence.

Life itself is also an "intelligence test".

...then that is easily explained by the CSA flag as your avatar.

Really? Go ahead and "explain" it, then.

EDIT:..and speaking of flags, ace..You're proud of YOUR avatar? LMAO...

Everyone knows that Texas was stolen from mexico and when the mexicans went to straighten it all out they were met by armed terrorists who were hiding in a church.

Santa Anna SHOULD have killed every single one of them.