PDA

View Full Version : Black people



Captain Obvious
11-17-2013, 03:40 PM
A high percentage of our incarcerated are black. Blacks have higher crime rates than other races in the US. A high percentage of black people are on welfare. Blacks have among the lowest education scores across the nation.

And on and on.

So why is this? Is this purely racial - the black community owns this? Or has our society failed the black community. Alienated, segregated, discriminated against them? Denied them the real opportunities that whites have enjoyed for generations.

Or a combination?

Discuss

Common
11-17-2013, 03:42 PM
There was a time when Irish committed the most crimes and were the largest prison population and the most to be executed.
Then the italians took their turn, I think its more about economics, but I dont have all the answers. I arrested alot of everything and ive seen alot of everything arrested.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 03:51 PM
It is a combination of things. The war on poverty and drugs set up the environment for cultural disintegration. I would say more but I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread seems to be yet or the value in me wasting time and emotion on it.

Common
11-17-2013, 04:13 PM
It is a combination of things. The war on poverty and drugs set up the environment for cultural disintegration. I would say more but I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread seems to be yet or the value in me wasting time and emotion on it.

Cannot have an honest conversation about how you feel about race because the left will call you a racist and the right will call you whatever they can make up at the time.

I have my ideas but I am reluctant to come out and say them

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 04:26 PM
If it were localized to JUST America, I might be willing to believe that it is a societal problem,

but the sad truth is that it is not.

I don't believe that we have the knowledge, yet, to be able to pinpoint the factors,
and in our current PC climate,
I don't see that we'll have the opportunity to do extensive studies any time, soon.

Common
11-17-2013, 04:32 PM
What do you mean not localized to america

The Xl
11-17-2013, 04:52 PM
Johnsons great society, the war on drugs, law enforcement abuse, justice system abuse, etc. Probably some genetics involved, not due to them being black, but due to selective breeding during the slave era, massive breeding from the poor in the black community, etc.

Blacks would probably be at or near whites in society if they weren't undercut. The fact that the average African American has an 85 IQ and not lower is quite incredible when you realize the factors working against them, and when you consider the shitty schools they go to.

'Multiculturalism' hasn't worked perfectly because the powers that be didn't want it to. It's actually been better than they anticipated, despite massive attempts to intentionally sabotage it.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 04:52 PM
I would argue someone look at global interference in Africa before making that distinction about it not being localized.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 04:53 PM
I think part of the issue stems from the soft bigotry of low expectations. Also, the indoctrination that everything is someone else's fault. Blacks do well in other cultures, why can't they here? They assimilate into other cultures, why not here? I've seen blacks from England, Puerto Rico, and Honduras. They don't consider themselves a different culture, they are English, Puerto Rican or Honduran. Only in America must everyone be defined by race instead of common culture. And who keeps us divided among these lines? Need I say it?
It's the same people that MUST keep us at each other's throats for their political gain. It's the people that insist on seeing race in everything and that have poisoned the country from having an honest discussion on race relations. It is the people that feel that blacks, as well as other minorities, are unable to fend for themselves without nanny government's intervention that have created an entitlement and dependent mindset. It is evident in the mindset of liberals on this very forum that view any rational discussion of the problem as being racist. jillian, ravi, et al, will denounce this post as being racist because I disagree with their position that the white man, republican or conservative, is the root of all evil.
We must hold everyone accountable for their own actions. The "whitey owes us" mentality must be eliminated. The "cultural bias" bullshit must be eliminated. This bullshit about a black kid being unable to pass a test because it's "culturally biased" is just so much crap. I'm not white. I'm Hispanic. I sat in those classes side by side with whites and blacks. I managed to pass those tests thru hard work and study. I was never held back by my own people criticizing me for trying to "act white". Asians pass, other cultures can pass the tests. Why not blacks? They are NOT stupid or inferior. They are held back by their own people and the victimhood culture they are taught and entrapped in.

We will never solve this problem until we take off the blinders and take the hard and necessary steps to reverse or destroy the victimhood mentality. Let these people sink or swim without government intervention. It will be hard. On them and the children. Don't let them starve, but let them face the consequences of their actions. Drop the hyphenated American bullshit. We're either AMERICAN or we're not. I am NOT a Mexican-American. I am an AMERICAN. Period.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 04:55 PM
My IQ is quite high. IQ tests are written tests based off of the ability to understand the analogy that you can then extrapolate into another given analogy. You must have a baseline in order to do well on it.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 04:56 PM
If came into your house with a sledgehammer, beat the shit out of your things, then told you to clean it up and asked why you keep such a messy house you would call me crazy.

The Xl
11-17-2013, 04:57 PM
My IQ is quite high. IQ tests are written tests based off of the ability to understand the analogy that you can then extrapolate into another given analogy. You must have a baseline in order to do well on it.

My best friend growing up was from Jamaica and has an IQ higher than mine, and mine is 130. I'm not saying their aren't smart black folk, I'm trying to say the opposite, they do pretty well on these arbitrary tests despite being undercut by society.

And I agree that it isn't an end all be all sort of test. I knew and still know some incredibly street and common sense smart blacks growing up.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 04:58 PM
If came into your house with a sledgehammer, beat the shit out of your things, then told you to clean it up and asked why you keep such a messy house you would call me crazy.
Before, or after I shot you? And I would not shoot you just because you're black. I would shoot anyone that came into my house with a sledgehammer and started destroying things.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:00 PM
Before, or after I shot you? And I would not shoot you just because you're black. I would shoot anyone that came into my house with a sledgehammer and started destroying things.

Are you saying we should have shot at you?

Common
11-17-2013, 05:01 PM
Before, or after I shot you? And I would not shoot you just because you're black. I would shoot anyone that came into my house with a sledgehammer and started destroying things.

Everything gets clarified by race

I was friends along with alot of other cops with an orthodox priest who spent everyday of his life trying to help blacks, he lived and worked in the worst of black neighborhoods.
One day I asked him why is it like this, keep in mind this guy didnt have a racist bone in his body just the opposite. He said they are 200 yrs behind us and they cant possibly catch up on their own. I didnt really grasp that when he said it to me.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:02 PM
Are you saying we should have shot at you?
We? We who?

AmazonTania
11-17-2013, 05:04 PM
The CIA invented Rap Music so black people would kill one another.

So let's go with that.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:06 PM
Everything gets clarified by race

I was friends along with alot of other cops with an orthodox priest who spent everyday of his life trying to help blacks, he lived and worked in the worst of black neighborhoods.
One day I asked him why is it like this, keep in mind this guy didnt have a racist bone in his body just the opposite. He said they are 200 yrs behind us and they cant possibly catch up on their own. I didnt really grasp that when he said it to me.

Yes, they were slaves. I get that. But other peoples have been held as slaves as well. They have overcome that dark period in their culture and have come back with a vengeance. Black Americans can, and should strive for the same instead of using the excuse that the white man is holding them back. No one is holding them back but their own victimhood. I have the utmost respect for those black Americans that have overcome the odds and made names of themselves. But these very blacks are mocked and ridiculed by their compatriots for "acting white" for being "race traitors", etc. THAT'S what needs to be overcome before anything else changes.

The Xl
11-17-2013, 05:07 PM
Yes, they were slaves. I get that. But other peoples have been held as slaves as well. They have overcome that dark period in their culture and have come back with a vengeance. Black Americans can, and should strive for the same instead of using the excuse that the white man is holding them back. No one is holding them back but their own victimhood. I have the utmost respect for those black Americans that have overcome the odds and made names of themselves. But these very blacks are mocked and ridiculed by their compatriots for "acting white" for being "race traitors", etc. THAT'S what needs to be overcome before anything else changes.

It hasn't stopped though. Once the war on drugs, entitlements, and institutional racism end, then you'll have a point.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:12 PM
It hasn't stopped though. Once the war on drugs, entitlements, and institutional racism end, then you'll have a point.

Institutional racism? Give me an example, please.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:12 PM
We? We who?

Look at this


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kpmrNRU-Fbc/UNOKGwksofI/AAAAAAAAHu8/RNaZDVpUqXg/s1600/war+on+poverty+chart.jpg


Blacks were doing better before the War on Poverty, and the Drug War. What changed, imo, was the stipulations of welfare and I believe that they were by design to destroy the rise of the black community in America. When welfare started no one who had a man living in their home could receive welfare assistance. What this did was remove incentives for "shotgun weddings" or for black families to stay together through rough times. Several generations of black youth in urban environments grew up fatherless and hopeless.

I'd say more on the subject but it really deserves its own thread and attention. Football is on and so is COD.

AmazonTania
11-17-2013, 05:15 PM
I use the same data to show that Workplace deaths/accidents was declining before OSHA.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:16 PM
Look at this


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kpmrNRU-Fbc/UNOKGwksofI/AAAAAAAAHu8/RNaZDVpUqXg/s1600/war+on+poverty+chart.jpg


Blacks were doing better before the War on Poverty, and the Drug War. What changed, imo, was the stipulations of welfare and I believe that they were by design to destroy the rise of the black community in America. When welfare started no one who had a man living in their home could receive welfare assistance. What this did was remove incentives for "shotgun weddings" or for black families to stay together through rough times. Several generations of black youth in urban environments grew up fatherless and hopeless.

I'd say more on the subject but it really deserves its own thread and attention. Football is on and so is COD.

I agree, the War on Poverty was the worst thing that could have happened to the black American families.

Common
11-17-2013, 05:20 PM
Yes, they were slaves. I get that. But other peoples have been held as slaves as well. They have overcome that dark period in their culture and have come back with a vengeance. Black Americans can, and should strive for the same instead of using the excuse that the white man is holding them back. No one is holding them back but their own victimhood. I have the utmost respect for those black Americans that have overcome the odds and made names of themselves. But these very blacks are mocked and ridiculed by their compatriots for "acting white" for being "race traitors", etc. THAT'S what needs to be overcome before anything else changes.


Aggravan I agree with you for the most part. I disagree with you that you make it sound so offhand easy for anyone to rise in this country. Whites cant do it now.
Agravan seriously do you get how many americans dont have jobs and how many americans dont make enough to buy basics now. They aint all black.

You come from one of the few states that isnt doing as bad as most and its not because of right wing rule its because of Oil and the related industries and work. The point is you may not see this economic horror as it is in other areas of this country.

Agravan you cannot live in lily white america upper middle class, go to work and go to high end restaurants and never even drive through a bad neighborhood and see the real deal. You wont see it on foxnews or Msnbc either. I know people get pissed off when I say that and start all the apologist bullshit etc. Its a simple truth. Seeing is believing

Lets try this see how it goes, a poor person in rural south and a poor person in NYC.

Down south you can have a garden grow some stuff maybe live in a warmer climate, in NYC you rob convenient stores, mug women and old people, doe B&Es, sell drugs, be a pimp and it escalates from there.
My point is every state every location is different. I agree the total nanny state wont and doesnt work, I agree that race baiting by the Al Sharptons makes matters much worse. I also think if your a poor non HS grad black you have a far less chance of getting a minimum wage job than a poor non his grad white in the same environment and state.

You cant just do what the right thinks should be done and expect any kind of difference.
Its easy to say Stop all the victim stuff like food stamps and this and that..OK, now give them a job, give them a way to put food in their mouths IF THEY WANT TO if they dont screw them stickem in prison as far as im concerned.. Im could care less about them bums, skids, dealers and shitbags that dont want to do nothing but take it all for free.

I just KNOW theres others out there that wanna and just cant or dont know how.

The Xl
11-17-2013, 05:28 PM
Institutional racism? Give me an example, please.

9 to 1 prosecution and conviction rate on drug related offenses, despite whites committing drug crimes at the same rate, police abuse, etc.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:32 PM
Yes, they were slaves. I get that. But other peoples have been held as slaves as well. They have overcome that dark period in their culture and have come back with a vengeance. Black Americans can, and should strive for the same instead of using the excuse that the white man is holding them back. No one is holding them back but their own victimhood. I have the utmost respect for those black Americans that have overcome the odds and made names of themselves. But these very blacks are mocked and ridiculed by their compatriots for "acting white" for being "race traitors", etc. THAT'S what needs to be overcome before anything else changes.

This is bullshit, no offense. White or black, kids without a father in the home do worse in school, in sports, and in life. Fact. If you need me to link it I will, but its out there. White or black, kids below the poverty line do worse in school, in sports, and in life. Fact. Kids who grow up in situations of domestic abuse do worse in school, sports, and in life. Fact. More domestic abuse happens in family where alcoholism or depression coexists. Black kids in inner cities have more of a struggle than kids in the country, white or black, with statistics not on their side.

Yes, you will find kids like me who rise above, but I had extraordinary assistance coming up. I was part of a pilot program for school that let me go to private schools. I had a lot of help that other black kids did not have.

If I had been born to a regular middle class family I would have gone into college not the marine corps.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:35 PM
Also, I am a large muscular black man. When I was in the USMC I had to wear specific clothing off post. I was clean cut. Everything was neat. I would go out with my redneck buddy and guess who people eyed in stores? Me. I wasn't wearing basketball jerseys. I wasn't wearing hoodies. i couldn't wear my pants off my ass, and I still got that look like I might up and rob the place. When you have to deal with that every fucking day it gets exhausting.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:40 PM
Aggravan I agree with you for the most part. I disagree with you that you make it sound so offhand easy for anyone to rise in this country. Whites cant do it now.
Agravan seriously do you get how many americans dont have jobs and how many americans dont make enough to buy basics now. They aint all black.

You come from one of the few states that isnt doing as bad as most and its not because of right wing rule its because of Oil and the related industries and work. The point is you may not see this economic horror as it is in other areas of this country.

Agravan you cannot live in lily white america upper middle class, go to work and go to high end restaurants and never even drive through a bad neighborhood and see the real deal. You wont see it on foxnews or Msnbc either. I know people get pissed off when I say that and start all the apologist bullshit etc. Its a simple truth. Seeing is believing

Lets try this see how it goes, a poor person in rural south and a poor person in NYC.

Down south you can have a garden grow some stuff maybe live in a warmer climate, in NYC you rob convenient stores, mug women and old people, doe B&Es, sell drugs, be a pimp and it escalates from there.
My point is every state every location is different. I agree the total nanny state wont and doesnt work, I agree that race baiting by the Al Sharptons makes matters much worse. I also think if your a poor non HS grad black you have a far less chance of getting a minimum wage job than a poor non his grad white in the same environment and state.

You cant just do what the right thinks should be done and expect any kind of difference.
Its easy to say Stop all the victim stuff like food stamps and this and that..OK, now give them a job, give them a way to put food in their mouths IF THEY WANT TO if they dont screw them stickem in prison as far as im concerned.. Im could care less about them bums, skids, dealers and shitbags that dont want to do nothing but take it all for free.

I just KNOW theres others out there that wanna and just cant or dont know how.

Wrong, Common. I do understand that these are tough economic times for everyone, not just black. I don't want to cut off Food stamps, welfare, etc. Your point about the non-HS graduates is valid. But think about it. Blacks have a reputation, deserved or not, for being hoods, thugs, etc. Now, I know the majority don't deserve it and are being stereotyped. But watch COPS, and other shows that show crimes and victims. The majority of people arrested are black. That's what people see. The Gangsta culture embraced by blacks. That's what people see. The knockout game, the flash mobs, that's what people see. They are not doing their people any favors by being allowed to be portrayed this way. I know things are rough up north. Does that excuse things like robbery, murder, rape, and things like the knock out game? Is it whitey that has them poor when oftentimes "whitey" is just as poor?
Believe me, I don't live in a lily-white neighborhood. I see poor people everyday. I don't have a steady job. I do contract work when, and where, I can get it. I have to ration my money between food and gas when the only jobs I can get are 70 to 80 miles from home. But I don't hold up convenience stores or mug people. I go hungry and I DO NOT receive Food Stamps or welfare. I manage to feed my family and keep a roof over their heads. I do without so that they can have what's necessary. I know what it's like to be broke and poor. but I have my morals and scruples and would not stoop to the depths that you describe.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:44 PM
Also, I am a large muscular black man. When I was in the USMC I had to wear specific clothing off post. I was clean cut. Everything was neat. I would go out with my redneck buddy and guess who people eyed in stores? Me. I wasn't wearing basketball jerseys. I wasn't wearing hoodies. i couldn't wear my pants off my ass, and I still got that look like I might up and rob the place. When you have to deal with that every fucking day it gets exhausting.

I agree. I have seen it myself. But, while not defending them, look at it from their point of view, when most blacks on the news, movies, etc. are portrayed as thugs, gangstas, and drug addicts/lords. I have been followed in stores. When that happens, I go elsewhere.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:45 PM
Wrong, Common. I do understand that these are tough economic times for everyone, not just black. I don't want to cut off Food stamps, welfare, etc. Your point about the non-HS graduates is valid. But think about it. Blacks have a reputation, deserved or not, for being hoods, thugs, etc. Now, I know the majority don't deserve it and are being stereotyped. But watch COPS, and other shows that show crimes and victims. The majority of people arrested are black. That's what people see. The Gangsta culture embraced by blacks. That's what people see. The knockout game, the flash mobs, that's what people see. They are not doing their people any favors by being allowed to be portrayed this way. I know things are rough up north. Does that excuse things like robbery, murder, rape, and things like the knock out game? Is it whitey that has them poor when oftentimes "whitey" is just as poor?
Believe me, I don't live in a lily-white neighborhood. I see poor people everyday. I don't have a steady job. I do contract work when, and where, I can get it. I have to ration my money between food and gas when the only jobs I can get are 70 to 80 miles from home. But I don't hold up convenience stores or mug people. I go hungry and I DO NOT receive Food Stamps or welfare. I manage to feed my family and keep a roof over their heads. I do without so that they can have what's necessary. I know what it's like to be broke and poor. but I have my morals and scruples and would not stoop to the depths that you describe.


I would think that a man who supports the 2nd amendment would understand that the type of statistics the media puts out are bullshit. Less than 1% of all blacks commit violent crimes. Are our rates higher than whites? Sure. I'm not doubting it. Gang warfare is something I grew up with. Was that errbody? Hell naw. It's also one of the main reasons why we don't do as well in school. It is hard to grow up in a war zone and excel. As a vet I get all the sympathy in the world from conservatives because I lived through being shot at. They are sympathetic to the PTSD I may have from being in a Iraq or Afghanistan.

As a black kid in the hood I got none.

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 05:46 PM
What's going on in Africa, right now?
Oh.
We haven't sent ENOUGH money, materials, (wo)MEN
to help, and teach, and give those folks a Hand Up to be able to do for themselves?

WHY are they still a "third world" country?

NOT because they didn't have ALL of the same opportunities other cultures had,
and even MORE,
because we DID feel a responsibility to reach out a helping hand,

but for some other reason.

Environment (aka "nurture") can only go so far in explaining a psychological mindset;

nature is the other side of ^that^ coin, and also deserves to be examined.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:46 PM
I agree. I have seen it myself. But, while not defending them, look at it from their point of view, when most blacks on the news, movies, etc. are portrayed as thugs, gangstas, and drug addicts/lords. I have been followed in stores. When that happens, I go elsewhere.

How is the news portraying Tea Party folks or folks who support the 2nd Amendment. Yall have spree shooting white kids all over the news. Do all white kids with rifles shoot their classmates?

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:48 PM
What's going on in Africa, right now?
Oh.
We haven't sent ENOUGH money, materials, (wo)MEN
to help, and teach, and give those folks a Hand Up to be able to do for themselves?

WHY are they still a "third world" country?

NOT because they didn't have ALL of the same opportunities other cultures had,
and even MORE,
because we DID feel a responsibility to reach out a helping hand,

but for some other reason.

Environment (aka "nurture") can only go so far in explaining a psychological mindset;

nature is the other side of ^that^ coin, and also deserves to be examined.


Start a thread and I'll respond with corporate involvement, think tanks like Trilateral and CFR, actual US troops there, etc. This is about the US.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:50 PM
How is the news portraying Tea Party folks or folks who support the 2nd Amendment. Yall have spree shooting white kids all over the news. Do all white kids with rifles shoot their classmates?

First off, I understand that what we see on TV is lopsided. Did you not see where I said the stereotype was not deserved?
As far as Tea Party or 2nd Amendment supporters having white kids shooting up schools, please supply a link where they have actually been linked to the Tea Party or to Supporters and not have been committed by psychos.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:51 PM
First off, I understand that what we see on TV is lopsided. Did you not see where I said the stereotype was not deserved?
As far as Tea Party or 2nd Amendment supporters having white kids shooting up schools, please supply a link where they have actually been linked to the Tea Party or to Supporters and not have been committed by psychos.

The tried to blame the Boston Bombing on Tea Partiers. Look at all the threads on this forum. Yall are blamed for everything. Is it deserved?

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:52 PM
I would think that a man who supports the 2nd amendment would understand that the type of statistics the media puts out are bullshit. Less than 1% of all blacks commit violent crimes. Are our rates higher than whites? Sure. I'm not doubting it. Gang warfare is something I grew up with. Was that errbody? Hell naw. It's also one of the main reasons why we don't do as well in school. It is hard to grow up in a war zone and excel. As a vet I get all the sympathy in the world from conservatives because I lived through being shot at. They are sympathetic to the PTSD I may have from being in a Iraq or Afghanistan.

As a black kid in the hood I got none.

Ahem.

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 05:53 PM
Before, or after I shot you? And I would not shoot you just because you're black. I would shoot anyone that came into my house with a sledgehammer and started destroying things.

EXACTLY!!!

You don't allow guests to decimate all that you love, own and/or are.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 05:58 PM
EXACTLY!!!

You don't allow guests to decimate all that you love, own and/or are.

So blacks should have shot up whites who were fucking with our families and communities? Interesting.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:58 PM
The tried to blame the Boston Bombing on Tea Partiers. Look at all the threads on this forum. Yall are blamed for everything. Is it deserved?

No, and neither is your situation. Us getting blamed for everything bad is politics and hackery. Nothing else. You guys getting a bad rep is because of actual incidents. As I said, your culture, or people should not be all blamed as they are. But it is human nature to base opinions on their limited experience. Blame those in your culture that perpetuate the stereotypes that people see, not the people who know nothing else about blacks but what they see on TV.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 05:59 PM
So blacks should have shot up whites who were fucking with our families and communities? Interesting.How did the alternative work out for you?

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:01 PM
No, and neither is your situation. Us getting blamed for everything bad is politics and hackery. Nothing else. You guys getting a bad rep is because of actual incidents. As I said, your culture, or people should not be all blamed as they are. But it is human nature to base opinions on their limited experience. Blame those in your culture that perpetuate the stereotypes that people see, not the people who know nothing else about blacks but what they see on TV.

Oh. With you it's just lies, with us it is "actual incidents". So white gun owners don't shoot more people than liberal non-gun owners? Adam Laanza, for example, was a mirage? A "made up" event? His mother was not a conservative gun owner?

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:02 PM
How did the alternative work out for you?

Obviously not well.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 06:05 PM
Oh. With you it's just lies, with us it is "actual incidents". So white gun owners don't shoot more people than liberal non-gun owners? Adam Laanza, for example, was a mirage? A "made up" event? His mother was not a conservative gun owner?

His mother shot no one. Adam Lanza did. You're trying to blame his mother for him going on a rampage? You're stretching, dude. Have you been able to actually link any of these events to conservatives or the Tea Party?
Look, if you can't discuss this rationally, then I won't discuss it at all with you. Get the chip off of your shoulder, dude.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:16 PM
His mother shot no one. Adam Lanza did. You're trying to blame his mother for him going on a rampage? You're stretching, dude. Have you been able to actually link any of these events to conservatives or the Tea Party?
Look, if you can't discuss this rationally, then I won't discuss it at all with you. Get the chip off of your shoulder, dude.

The media did, which is my point. Less than 1% of all blacks commit violent crimes. Less than a percent is the same amount of registered gun owners committing violent crimes. If you want to talk about a problem in the black community based on that 1 %, then lets talk about the problem in the registered gun owning community, as well.

Rates, which is what many whites use to discuss black crimes, can also be used by liberals to frame the argument against registered gun owners and death by firearms. I would think someone like you would see through the rates argument by now and look at the actual facts of the matter which is that 99% of us aren't out there shooting fools.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:17 PM
I realize that it is hard to let go of conservative talking points, but if you can't let them go why expect liberals to let go of theirs when it comes to guns?

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 06:17 PM
Start a thread and I'll respond with corporate involvement, think tanks like Trilateral and CFR, actual US troops there, etc. This is about the US.

Okay! I'm going to make the title rather provocative ... http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee57/Fyrenza/Forum%20Stuff/kaos-crazybunny09_zps8513d1b8.gif (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/Fyrenza/media/Forum%20Stuff/kaos-crazybunny09_zps8513d1b8.gif.html)

Bottom Line? If I get banned, it's All Your Fault!

you ginger-hater, you! rofl

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:18 PM
Okay! I'm going to make the title rather provocative ... http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee57/Fyrenza/Forum Stuff/kaos-crazybunny09_zps8513d1b8.gif (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/Fyrenza/media/Forum Stuff/kaos-crazybunny09_zps8513d1b8.gif.html)

Bottom Line? If I get banned, it's All Your Fault!

you ginger-hater, you! rofl


Start it tomorrow, I aint got time to do it justice today with this thread going on.

Agravan
11-17-2013, 06:23 PM
I realize that it is hard to let go of conservative talking points, but if you can't let them go why expect liberals to let go of theirs when it comes to guns?

Which 'conservative talking points" did I use? How often do I have to say that the rep is not deserved before you can get that chip off of your shoulder long enough to see it? I am speaking from my personal beliefs. If you think those are "conservative talking points" then I guess our discussion is done.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:32 PM
Let's pretend that blacks committed every single homicide in the US in 2011. That's 14,612 people in 2011. In 2011 there were 38,929,318 (million) black people in the US. You do the math.

Less than 1% of all blacks are involved in homicides yet I hear how we're always shooting up the place because of crime rates. Take those same crime rates and apply them to white gun owners versus white non-gun owners and you got the liberal talking points that come out every single time a white dude goes DOOM on someone.

The Xl
11-17-2013, 06:37 PM
Let's pretend that blacks committed every single homicide in the US in 2011. That's 14,612 people in 2011. In 2011 there were 38,929,318 (million) black people in the US. You do the math.

Less than 1% of all blacks are involved in homicides yet I hear how we're always shooting up the place because of crime rates. Take those same crime rates and apply them to white gun owners versus white non-gun owners and you got the liberal talking points that come out every single time a white dude goes DOOM on someone.

Boom.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:40 PM
Which 'conservative talking points" did I use? How often do I have to say that the rep is not deserved before you can get that chip off of your shoulder long enough to see it? I am speaking from my personal beliefs. If you think those are "conservative talking points" then I guess our discussion is done.

I didn't reply to you. I made a point to the thread. I have read more than a few conservative talking points and in a thread on race there will be more to come.

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 06:46 PM
The media did, which is my point. Less than 1% of all blacks commit violent crimes. Less than a percent is the same amount of registered gun owners committing violent crimes. If you want to talk about a problem in the black community based on that 1 %, then lets talk about the problem in the registered gun owning community, as well.

Rates, which is what many whites use to discuss black crimes, can also be used by liberals to frame the argument against registered gun owners and death by firearms. I would think someone like you would see through the rates argument by now and look at the actual facts of the matter which is that 99% of us aren't out there shooting fools.




Sham W (http://answers.yahoo.com/activity?show=KIWQFMD33PCJCZMZBLOCNQY654&t=g) answered 5 years ago


Lifetime chances of a person going to prison are higher for

-- men (9%) than for women (1.1%)
-- blacks (16.2%) and Hispanics (9.4%) than for whites (2.5%)

Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 28% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 16% of Hispanic males and 4.4% of white males.

Sixty-five percent of state prison inmates belonged to racial or ethnic minorities in 1991, up from 60% in 1986.

At current levels of incarceration newborn black males in this country have a greater than a 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during their lifetimes, while Hispanic males have a 1 in 6 chance, and white males have a 1 in 23 chance of serving time. NCJ 160092

The number of drug trafficking convictions in State courts more than doubled between 1986 and1990. Of persons convicted of drug trafficking in State courts in 1990--85% were male 42% were white, 57% black, and 1% of other races

The data on crime are from http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
Source: http://www.runet.edu/~junnever/bw.htm (http://www.runet.edu/%7Ejunnever/bw.htm)
The data on crime are from http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm



Sorry about the Cut&Paste, but those stats are from over 5 years ago,

and things have NOT gotten "better."

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:49 PM
Those are RATES not actuals. I presented actuals which you have passed over.

Do you want to see the RATES on gun owners and US deaths?

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:50 PM
Let's pretend that blacks committed every single homicide in the US in 2011. That's 14,612 people in 2011. In 2011 there were 38,929,318 (million) black people in the US. You do the math.

Less than 1% of all blacks are involved in homicides yet I hear how we're always shooting up the place because of crime rates. Take those same crime rates and apply them to white gun owners versus white non-gun owners and you got the liberal talking points that come out every single time a white dude goes DOOM on someone.


Actuals ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 06:50 PM
Our stats are suspect, however ~

do you have a link to yours?

I can't tell if mine are the percentage OF the black pop, or the percent of the entire pop...

Cigar
11-17-2013, 06:52 PM
It is a combination of things. The war on poverty and drugs set up the environment for cultural disintegration. I would say more but I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread seems to be yet or the value in me wasting time and emotion on it.


Come on its new week, can't wait for February when they really lose it. :)

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:53 PM
And this is why I should never get into conversations about blacks in the US. I have respectfully not used that crime rates back at whites and determined for myself to speak in actual numbers to prevent hysteria and I am given rates which mean absolutely nothing to anyone.

A white guy in Maine is more likely to be killed by a white guy than a black guy. A black guy in Chicago is more likely to be killed by a black guy in Chicago.

When less than 1% of blacks are committing violent crimes--less than a percent--and people gloss over that to tell me about how violent blacks are or our violent crime rates I just don't even feel like putting the effort in anymore. Yall can and will continue to think what you want regardless.

fyrenza
11-17-2013, 06:53 PM
Actuals ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NOT!

USA

People QuickFacts
USA



http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_PST045212.htm) Population, 2012 estimate
313,914,040




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_PST040210.htm) Population, 2010 (April 1) estimates base
308,747,508




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_PST120212.htm) Population, percent change, April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2012
1.7%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_POP010210.htm) Population, 2010
308,745,538




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_AGE135212.htm) Persons under 5 years, percent, 2012
6.4%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_AGE295212.htm) Persons under 18 years, percent, 2012

23.5%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_AGE775212.htm) Persons 65 years and over, percent, 2012

13.7%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_SEX255212.htm) Female persons, percent, 2012

50.8%










http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI125212.htm) White alone, percent, 2012 (a)
77.9%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI225212.htm) Black or African American alone, percent, 2012 (a)
13.1%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI325212.htm) American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, 2012 (a)
1.2%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI425212.htm) Asian alone, percent, 2012 (a)
5.1%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI525212.htm) Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, 2012 (a)
0.2%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI625212.htm) Two or More Races, percent, 2012
2.4%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI725212.htm) Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2012 (b)
16.9%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI825212.htm) White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2012
63.0%








http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:54 PM
Our stats are suspect, however ~

do you have a link to yours?

I can't tell if mine are the percentage OF the black pop, or the percent of the entire pop...

I don't even feel like it. Look up homicide on Wiki then look up population. It's there for you to see.

Cigar
11-17-2013, 06:56 PM
And this is why I should never get into conversations about blacks in the US. I have respectfully not used that crime rates back at whites and determined for myself to speak in actual numbers to prevent hysteria and I am given rates which mean absolutely nothing to anyone.

A white guy in Maine is more likely to be killed by a white guy than a black guy. A black guy in Chicago is more likely to be killed by a black guy in Chicago.

When less than 1% of blacks are committing violent crimes--less than a percent--and people gloss over that to tell me about how violent blacks are or our violent crime rates I just don't even feel like putting the effort in anymore. Yall can and will continue to think what you want regardless.

Come on, play along, they need a pat on the back. It's been a difficult 5 years for the haters to swallow.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 06:58 PM
NOT!

USA



People QuickFacts
USA


http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_PST045212.htm) Population, 2012 estimate
313,914,040




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_PST040210.htm) Population, 2010 (April 1) estimates base
308,747,508




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_PST120212.htm) Population, percent change, April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2012
1.7%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_POP010210.htm) Population, 2010
308,745,538




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_AGE135212.htm) Persons under 5 years, percent, 2012
6.4%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_AGE295212.htm) Persons under 18 years, percent, 2012
23.5%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_AGE775212.htm) Persons 65 years and over, percent, 2012
13.7%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_SEX255212.htm) Female persons, percent, 2012
50.8%










http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI125212.htm) White alone, percent, 2012 (a)
77.9%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI225212.htm) Black or African American alone, percent, 2012 (a)
13.1%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI325212.htm) American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, 2012 (a)
1.2%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI425212.htm) Asian alone, percent, 2012 (a)
5.1%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI525212.htm) Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, 2012 (a)
0.2%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI625212.htm) Two or More Races, percent, 2012
2.4%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI725212.htm) Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2012 (b)
16.9%




http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/infoicon.gif (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI825212.htm) White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2012
63.0%







http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html





Yes

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html

42 million

The number of people who identified as black, either alone or in combination with one or more other races, in the 2010 Census. They made up 13.6 percent of the total U.S. population. The black population grew by 15.4 percent from 2000 to 2010.

Read more: African American Demographics, Population, Incomes, Veterans, Education, Voting | Infoplease.com (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html#ixzz2kwzFzYuO) http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html#ixzz2kwzFzYuO

Homicides

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/murder

In 2011, an estimated 14,612 persons were murdered in the United States. This was a 0.7 percent decrease from the 2010 estimate, a 14.7 percent decline from the 2007 figure, and a 10.0 percent decrease from the 2002 estimate.


---that's 42 million black people and even if we did all the homicides we're still ​less than a percent of us doing it.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 07:01 PM
Come on, play along, they need a pat on the back. It's been a difficult 5 years for the haters to swallow.

My hypertension is not liking this thread.

The Xl
11-17-2013, 07:05 PM
There are multiple sources that say, with the help of basic math, that under 1% of the black population is violent. Common sense says this as well, unless you get your talking points from the MSM.

I think a lot of people on here that are anti black have had very limited interactions with black people.

Cigar
11-17-2013, 07:06 PM
My hypertension is not liking this thread.

It has just the opposite affect on me, I've lived a life time laughing at the ignorance of People who think they knew everything about me and people who just happen to have the same color. The longer they remain ignorant, the better it is for the people they fear.

Let them have their stats. :)

The Wash
11-17-2013, 07:10 PM
It has just the opposite affect on me, I've lived a life time laughing at the ignorance of People who think they knew everything about me and people who just happen to have the same color. The longer they remain ignorant, the better it is for the people they fear.

Let them have their stats. :)

That's you, dude. I don't appreciate this at all.

Cigar
11-17-2013, 07:23 PM
That's you, dude. I don't appreciate this at all.

Why? The only person you have control over is you. So where is the argument? Where is their argument? Who, other than themselves do they control? Is it you? Is it me? Of course not, so what's the argument?

The Wash
11-17-2013, 07:32 PM
Why? The only person you have control over is you. So where is the argument? Where is their argument? Who, other than themselves do they control? Is it you? Is it me? Of course not, so what's the argument?

You are correct. I only control me. I cannot change anyone's perceptions or open their eyes to the reality. They have their crime rates and I have actuals.

Codename Section
11-17-2013, 07:36 PM
I'm having a bad day and did not want to comment on this, but y'all go apeshit when exotix is producing gun crime stats or Tea Party bullshit all over these threads. Then I see this shit about black crime rates and black Africans it just reminds me why people my age are just done with older people's politics. They do not reflect us or our generation.

Wash...fight the power yo! ((pumps fist in the air)) Love you, brother.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 07:39 PM
I'm having a bad day and did not want to comment on this, but y'all go apeshit when exotix is producing gun crime stats or Tea Party bullshit all over these threads. Then I see this shit about black crime rates and black Africans it just reminds me why people my age are just done with older people's politics. They do not reflect us or our generation.

Wash...fight the power yo! ((pumps fist in the air)) Love you, brother.

Asexual love right back at you, hillbilly.

roadmaster
11-17-2013, 07:46 PM
When they admit they have problems then things may get solved. Between flash mobs, shootings, knockout games as they call it and women that don't act like moms and teach their sons to support them with drug money. That a man is not measured what is between their legs but how they treat others. Are there good black families, yes but many neighborhoods have drug problems and gangs.

Dr. Who
11-17-2013, 07:58 PM
What's going on in Africa, right now?
Oh.
We haven't sent ENOUGH money, materials, (wo)MEN
to help, and teach, and give those folks a Hand Up to be able to do for themselves?

WHY are they still a "third world" country?

NOT because they didn't have ALL of the same opportunities other cultures had,
and even MORE,
because we DID feel a responsibility to reach out a helping hand,

but for some other reason.

Environment (aka "nurture") can only go so far in explaining a psychological mindset;

nature is the other side of ^that^ coin, and also deserves to be examined.
Africa is not a country, it is a continent comprised of many countries. The entire continent has been invaded and exploited by Europeans for centuries, with individual countries being passed back and forth from one European country to another. Africa is very rich in resources and as a result has been exploited for centuries, with the indigenous populations being marginalized and abused. Africa is comprised of many different peoples and languages. The boundaries drawn by the Europeans were artificial and did not consider the different ethnicities and traditional territories or traditional enmities. Parts of Africa have been plagued by unbelievable drought and famine, creating survival of the fittest societies, with warring factions trying to obtain a bigger share of what little pie there is. Traditional societies have been the victims of missionary work, creating divisions in beliefs and social structure, while at the same time there has been the damage done by European domination and governments that made the domestic population second class citizens. Much of this has ended with the independence of many countries, but many of the successful Africans in the various countries who had European educations took over the power structure and put into place what they learned from the Europeans, becoming as corrupt as the Europeans they ousted. That translates to little or no education for the people, no infrastructure, little or no law enforcement or conversely military style governments.

It will take time for Africa to recover from the damage that was done.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 07:58 PM
When they admit they have problems then things may get solved. Between flash mobs, shootings, knockout games as they call it and women that don't act like moms and teach their sons to support them with drug money. That a man is not measured what is between their legs but how they treat others. Are there good black families, yes but many neighborhoods have drug problems and gangs.

Tell me how many blacks do these things. Actual numbers and provide links. Not crime rates, because as I showed with the pedophilia and white folk thread, crime rates are funny things. Actual numbers on blacks in the US committing crimes.

Then take the number of blacks in the population (42 million) and divide by that number. You'll see the only statistic that matters.

Libhater
11-17-2013, 08:13 PM
Africa is not a country, it is a continent comprised of many countries. The entire continent has been invaded and exploited by Europeans for centuries, with individual countries being passed back and forth from one European country to another. Africa is very rich in resources and as a result has been exploited for centuries, with the indigenous populations being marginalized and abused. Africa is comprised of many different peoples and languages. The boundaries drawn by the Europeans were artificial and did not consider the different ethnicities and traditional territories or traditional enmities. Parts of Africa have been plagued by unbelievable drought and famine, creating survival of the fittest societies, with warring factions trying to obtain a bigger share of what little pie there is. Traditional societies have been the victims of missionary work, creating divisions in beliefs and social structure, while at the same time there has been the damage done by European domination and governments that made the domestic population second class citizens. Much of this has ended with the independence of many countries, but many of the successful Africans in the various countries who had European educations took over the power structure and put into place what they learned from the Europeans, becoming as corrupt as the Europeans they ousted. That translates to little or no education for the people, no infrastructure, little or no law enforcement or conversely military style governments.It will take time for Africa to recover from the damage that was done.Every point in your little diatribe here of negative/exploited European influence concerning Africa is total bull. Africa would still be in the stone age if it wasn't for the modern day European influence on that continent. Tell me how far along or how modern would Africa be today had it not been for that evil European influence. You think it was bad during those Apartheid years for Southern Africa under European control? Look at the murder statistics of black against black and or black against White South Africans after 1994 when Apartheid was officially over and the ANC took charge. You think Africans would have had any medicines to cure their AIDS victims, or any instructions, tools and know how to farm, to construct and or to teach their children the basics in education if it were not for the European WHITE man? My goodness, even Oprah Winfrey had schools built over there just so the young could be educated. So take your leftist 'exploitation' term and bury it till you find a legitimate need to use it.Btw, $$ aid to Africa to fight their AIDS epidemic among other diseases reached an all time high under the Bush II administration. Though not a European relief act, it was nonetheless aid coming from a non African Western nation.

roadmaster
11-17-2013, 08:17 PM
Tell me how many blacks do these things. Actual numbers and provide links. Not crime rates, because as I showed with the pedophilia and white folk thread, crime rates are funny things. Actual numbers on blacks in the US committing crimes.

Then take the number of blacks in the population (42 million) and divide by that number. You'll see the only statistic that matters.

It's bad, I know it and you do. We can't put white crime here because they put Hispanics as white. So no statistics don't matter. White crime is rising do to this while Hispanics and blacks fight one another for streets.

Mister D
11-17-2013, 08:23 PM
Africa is not a country, it is a continent comprised of many countries. The entire continent has been invaded and exploited by Europeans for centuries, with individual countries being passed back and forth from one European country to another. Africa is very rich in resources and as a result has been exploited for centuries, with the indigenous populations being marginalized and abused. Africa is comprised of many different peoples and languages. The boundaries drawn by the Europeans were artificial and did not consider the different ethnicities and traditional territories or traditional enmities. Parts of Africa have been plagued by unbelievable drought and famine, creating survival of the fittest societies, with warring factions trying to obtain a bigger share of what little pie there is. Traditional societies have been the victims of missionary work, creating divisions in beliefs and social structure, while at the same time there has been the damage done by European domination and governments that made the domestic population second class citizens. Much of this has ended with the independence of many countries, but many of the successful Africans in the various countries who had European educations took over the power structure and put into place what they learned from the Europeans, becoming as corrupt as the Europeans they ousted. That translates to little or no education for the people, no infrastructure, little or no law enforcement or conversely military style governments.

It will take time for Africa to recover from the damage that was done.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Fate-Africa-Continent-Independence/dp/1610390717/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384737681&sr=8-1&keywords=meredith+africa

I recommend this if you are truly interested. It will help dispel some of those notions particularly with regard to the culpability of Africans themselves.

The Wash
11-17-2013, 08:25 PM
I'm done with this thread.

Dr. Who
11-17-2013, 08:26 PM
Every point in your little diatribe here of negative/exploited European influence concerning Africa is total bull. Africa would still be in the stone age if it wasn't for the modern day European influence on that continent. Tell me how far along or how modern would Africa be today had it not been for that evil European influence. You think it was bad during those Apartheid years for Southern Africa under European control? Look at the murder statistics of black against black and or black against White South Africans after 1994 when Apartheid was officially over and the ANC took charge. You think Africans would have had any medicines to cure their AIDS victims, or any instructions, tools and know how to farm, to construct and or to teach their children the basics in education if it were not for the European WHITE man? My goodness, even Oprah Winfrey had schools built over there just so the young could be educated. So take your leftist 'exploitation' term and bury it till you find a legitimate need to use it.Btw, $$ aid to Africa to fight their AIDS epidemic among other diseases reached an all time high under the Bush II administration. Though not a European relief act, it was nonetheless aid coming from a non African Western nation.

Europe was as much of a boon to Africa as it was to the first nations people in America and the aboriginals in Australia.

Mister D
11-17-2013, 08:28 PM
Europe was as much of a boon to Africa as it was to the first nations people in America and the aboriginals in Australia.

European colonialism had its good points and its bad.

Codename Section
11-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Gun owners are violent. We have a problem with gun owners in the US. I'm not being PC. I want to talk about it. Sharks too. We have a rising shark attack problem in the US that everyone wants to ignore.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2013/08/shark-week-researchers-dissect-rise-of-attacks-on-humans/

Can you imagine when they get on LAND how bad it will be for all of us?

Captain Obvious
11-17-2013, 08:35 PM
Gun owners are violent. We have a problem with gun owners in the US. I'm not being PC. I want to talk about it. Sharks too. We have a rising shark attack problem in the US that everyone wants to ignore.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2013/08/shark-week-researchers-dissect-rise-of-attacks-on-humans/

Can you imagine when they get on LAND how bad it will be for all of us?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxpP4qX5ZnZqQTWJRrD8ZAzU_sB6HUk Dd8dvj3Q6qCT4Ye0_LhRA

roadmaster
11-17-2013, 08:40 PM
Gun owners are violent. We have a problem with gun owners in the US. I'm not being PC. I want to talk about it. Sharks too. We have a rising shark attack problem in the US that everyone wants to ignore.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2013/08/shark-week-researchers-dissect-rise-of-attacks-on-humans/

Can you imagine when they get on LAND how bad it will be for all of us?

We don't have a problem with gun owners we have a problem with cities that are gun free using illegal guns killing one another. They say whites are serial killers but ask yourself how many gang members have killed more than once. I think they outnumber others. Don't compare me to you. I actually lived in a southern city that we all got along and respected one another.

Codename Section
11-17-2013, 09:02 PM
We don't have a problem with gun owners we have a problem with cities that are gun free using illegal guns killing one another. They say whites are serial killers but ask yourself how many gang members have killed more than once. I think they outnumber others. Don't compare me to you. I actually lived in a southern city that we all got along and respected one another.

Trust me I am not comparing us. I actually lived in a southern city where we all got along and respected each other. When the gay couple's house got hit by a water spout my entire town was there helping out.

I was making an analogy and I don't know why you refuse to look at it. LESS THAN A PERCENT OF ______________POPULATION WHETHER IT IS BLACKS OR REGISTERED GUN OWNERS KILL PEOPLE.

Dr. Who
11-17-2013, 09:37 PM
European colonialism had its good points and its bad.Yes, but the good came at a great price.

http://www.pearsonhighered.com/assets/hip/us/hip_us_pearsonhighered/samplechapter/0205208606.pdf

Mister D
11-17-2013, 09:43 PM
Yes, but the good came at a great price.

http://www.pearsonhighered.com/assets/hip/us/hip_us_pearsonhighered/samplechapter/0205208606.pdf

Africa's contact with the outside world (European or otherwise) came at a price. Looks interesting. I tend to agree with the author about the 5 primary benefits. This will make good bar reading.

Ravi
11-18-2013, 06:28 AM
A high percentage of our incarcerated are black. Blacks have higher crime rates than other races in the US. A high percentage of black people are on welfare. Blacks have among the lowest education scores across the nation.

And on and on.

So why is this? Is this purely racial - the black community owns this? Or has our society failed the black community. Alienated, segregated, discriminated against them? Denied them the real opportunities that whites have enjoyed for generations.

Or a combination?

Discuss
Do they have a higher crime rate or do they have a larger likelihood of being charged and convicted?

Libhater
11-18-2013, 07:00 AM
Do they have a higher crime rate or do they have a larger likelihood of being charged and convicted?

They do have a higher crime rate, and as such they will be and are charged and convicted at a higher rate. Pretty simple, really.

Ravi
11-18-2013, 07:02 AM
They do have a higher crime rate, and as such they will be and are charged and convicted at a higher rate. Pretty simple, really.
Conventional wisdom is often not true. That you believe something also doesn't make it true. Feel free to prove what I bolded.

Green Arrow
11-18-2013, 07:29 AM
It's a complex issue, but primarily summed up in two main factors: poverty and urbanization. You look at crime stats around the world, and those are the two factors they have in common. A higher portion of crimes happen in poor, heavily urbanized areas. America is the most highly urbanized nation in the world, with an urbanization rate of 82%, as opposed to the roughly 50% urbanization rate of the rest of the world. Nations with larger populations in poverty have high crime rates.

Solve poverty, solve urbanization, you cut crime. Of course, you cut crime if you eliminate unnecessary crimes, too, like the drug war. Ultimately, it's not an easy fix and anyone who pretends it's a simple issue with a simple fix is only going to make it worse.

Alyosha
11-18-2013, 08:18 AM
Crime rates are a media invention. As some pointed out the rates of shark attacks have gone up due to overfishing of their normal foods, but that rate doesn't mean I'm actually likely to be attacked by a shark.

strollingbonez
11-18-2013, 08:24 AM
i am sorry to just jump in this discussion but many times blacks are criminalized in grade school...schools calling police on students...then that begins the 'permanent record' etc..



Black youth accounted for 73.8% of all juvenile arrests by the Oakland Police Department since 2006, despite making up just 29.3% of Oakland's school-age population.

Black youth represented 70% of Oakland School Police Department arrests since 2010, though they are only 30.5% of the Oakland Unified School District student population.

In Oakland, African American youth are 24 times, Hispanic youth are 4 times, and Asian youth are 3 times more likely than whites to be arrested and booked.

Most arrests of black youth referred to Probation Department (78%) were later determined to be "not sustained" and the young people were not prosecuted, compared to 56% for all youth arrests.

https://www.aclunc.org/blog/racial-disparities-arrests-contributing-education-crisis-oakland-students-color

so begin an honest discussion must take into account the profiling that goes on at an early age

Common
11-18-2013, 08:37 AM
In american history many ethnic whites had their day as public enemy number 1 and they were committing and getting convicted of more murder and crime than blacks at that point. WHY!!!!!!!

The irish mob was born out of poverty in Hells Kitchen, uneducated white irish immigrants that either couldnt get a job or wouldnt take a job working for peanuts and took to crime murder and mayhem.

Germans, Jews and Italians all took their turn, jews and italians ran and proliferated organized crime for the longest period and las Vegas is proof of that.

Take a list of every american executed and you will fine the lionshare are white when executions were still prevalent in all states.

Today there are far less POOR Germans, Irish, Italians and Jews with a need to commit crime or organize crime for profit.

Arrow is right in the sense its economics, poverty and urbanization but to insinuate that blacks have more of a criminal mindset or a criminal gene that whites dont have is pure BS.

You put me back in my neighborhood right now and offer me a minimum wage job 20 hr job or go back to running packages for the local crew boss and make a 40 hr minimum wage in 20 mins. GUESS WHAT.

The same people that rail that the media HIDES black crime or the liberal media covers it up, answer me a question.

HOW DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION about black crime when you live in a neighborhood where the only thing black is the asphalt in your street.

Know what call me a lib call me what you want but Im never going to buy your bs just because you insist I do.

Mister D
11-18-2013, 09:28 AM
HOW DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION about black crime when you live in a neighborhood where the only thing black is the asphalt in your street.

The FBI, for example. As for my neighborhood, few blacks. Little crime. Go figure. :wink:

Alyosha
11-18-2013, 10:06 AM
i am sorry to just jump in this discussion but many times blacks are criminalized in grade school...schools calling police on students...then that begins the 'permanent record' etc..



Black youth accounted for 73.8% of all juvenile arrests by the Oakland Police Department since 2006, despite making up just 29.3% of Oakland's school-age population.
Black youth represented 70% of Oakland School Police Department arrests since 2010, though they are only 30.5% of the Oakland Unified School District student population.
In Oakland, African American youth are 24 times, Hispanic youth are 4 times, and Asian youth are 3 times more likely than whites to be arrested and booked.
Most arrests of black youth referred to Probation Department (78%) were later determined to be "not sustained" and the young people were not prosecuted, compared to 56% for all youth arrests.

https://www.aclunc.org/blog/racial-disparities-arrests-contributing-education-crisis-oakland-students-color

so begin an honest discussion must take into account the profiling that goes on at an early age




No offense, but this is a dishonest argument. Classes of _____________people get involved in crime. I highly doubt blacks living in Middleburg VA are shooting people. I would also bet white kids in those neighborhoods have the same proportion of crime.

Cigar
11-18-2013, 10:10 AM
It must be difficult ... seeing yourself becoming a minority :laugh:

Alyosha
11-18-2013, 10:14 AM
It must be difficult ... seeing yourself becoming a minority :laugh:

What? Show me where I have defended this stupidity? It's CLASS not RACE. Whatever dude. I won't bother defending anyone next time.