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Blackrook
11-26-2013, 08:48 PM
Customers claim they did leave tip, did not leave note for server

By Mike Krumboltz, Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/author/mike-krumboltz-20110327/)10 hours agoThe Sideshow (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/)









When Dayna Morales, a restaurant server in New Jersey and former U.S. Marine, claimed a family wrote her a hateful note (http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/gay-waitress-not-tipped-because-she-affront-god-162900644.html) on a receipt, outrage ensued.

"I'm sorry but I cannot tip because I do not agree with your lifestyle and how you live your life," read the note. Morales, who is gay, posted a photo of the receipt on Facebook.

Morales went on news programs and showed off the receipt with the message. But now, the alleged customers have come forward saying they left no note and did leave the waitress a tip. The note, they claim, is a fake, according to NBC New York (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Gay-Server-Tip-Lifestyle-Receipt-Discrepancy-233040811.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_NYBrand).

View gallery
.
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ZrkSxa0aV2ryIydIb7lKkA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI1MA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-11-26/59546ee2-1bfc-4c29-a1fb-261fa26aaa33_tip.jpgThe message on the tip reads in part, "I'm sorry but I cannot tip because I don't agree with your lifestyle."

The family, which wished to remain anonymous, told NBC New York it left Morales a $18 tip. The customers reportedly provided a copy of the receipt as proof as well as a credit card statement "which appears to indicate their card was charged for the meal plus the tip, for a total of $111.55."The wife told NBC New York that she is left-handed and couldn't have made the slash in the tip section of the receipt. She says it appears like it was made from the right.

"We've never not left a tip when someone gave good service, and we would never leave a note like that," the wife told NBC New York.

The husband said he didn't vote for Chris Christie because of the governor's lack of support for gay marriage.

"Never would a message like that come from us," he said.

Faking a note, he added, is "a disgusting thing to do."

"The restaurant profits from this; obviously Dayna profits from this. It's fraud. It's a scam," he said.

Morales told NBC New York that she didn't receive a tip and repeated that the handwriting on the tip was not hers. The restaurant told NBC New York it is conducting an internal investigation into the incident.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/customers-claim-they-did-leave-tip--did-not-leave-note-for-server-144714897.html


This really doesn't surprise me. This nobody lesbian waitress wanted her 15 minutes of fame and she got it. Let's hope she loses her job. But will she apologize for what she did? Don't count on it.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 08:51 PM
How the fuck does anyone know someone is gay?

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 08:52 PM
Wait... nevermind

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kzigmpUgz2PAhNIslxTjnQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/blogs/partner/470_2723183.jpg

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 08:56 PM
Nasty thread.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 08:56 PM
My family went to P.F. Chang's and we were told our menu choices by a black man who was a flaming homosexual. Guess what, we left a tip, even though he was black and gay. Go figure.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 08:57 PM
Nasty thread.
What's nasty, the fact that a lesbian invents a hate crime and accuses innocent people of it, or the fact that I started a thread about it?

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 08:59 PM
My family went to P.F. Chang's and we were told our menu choices by a black man who was a flaming homosexual. Guess what, we left a tip, even though he was black and gay. Go figure.

What a humanitarian...

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:00 PM
What's nasty, the fact that a lesbian invents a hate crime and accuses innocent people of it, or the fact that I started a thread about it?

How do you know that someone else in the restaurant besides the waitress didn't wrote the note?

Dyke=guilty?

Gotcha hate story.

Peter1469
11-26-2013, 09:01 PM
If I decide to pay with a credit card and use cash for the tip, I write cash on the tip line.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:02 PM
Fake hate crimes aren't that uncommon.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:03 PM
How do you know that someone else in the restaurant besides the waitress didn't wrote the note?

Dyke=guilty?

Gotcha hate story.
So, rather than believe this lesbian is guilty of making a false accusation, you indulge in a fantasy that some other customer or waiter snuck up to the table and wrote the note on the receipt while no one was looking.

That's pretty delusional.
Why would someone do that?

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:03 PM
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd336/fr_slingsandarrows/lesbians.jpg

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:04 PM
Fake hate crimes aren't that uncommon.

Yes, they are uncommon. Usually, the person who acts that way is mentally ill.

Admit that you don't like hate crime law, period.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:04 PM
How do you know that someone else in the restaurant besides the waitress didn't wrote the note?

Dyke=guilty?

Gotcha hate story.

Well yeah. It's a hate story. Fiction.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:05 PM
So, rather than believe this lesbian is guilty of making a false accusation, you indulge in a fantasy that some other customer or waiter snuck up to the table and wrote the note on the receipt while no one was looking.

That's pretty delusional.
Why would someone do that?

Probably because I give people the benefit of the doubt.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:05 PM
Well yeah. It's a hate story. Fiction.

Hate isn't fictional. There is plenty of it right here on this thread.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:07 PM
Hate isn't fictional. There is plenty of it right here on this thread.

Hope you're not referring to me. I'm like the champion of gay people around here. I just have a sense of humor.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:07 PM
Yes, they are uncommon. Usually, the person who acts that way is mentally ill.

Admit that you don't like hate crime law, period.

This dyke may be mentally ill. Or just a narcissistic piece of garbage. Shrug.

As for hate crimes, this wouldn't be one even if it was true. Moreover, hate crime laws are ridiculous. I make no secret of it.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:08 PM
Hate isn't fictional. There is plenty of it right here on this thread.

Where? You don't seriously expect a tip for this second rate whining?

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:08 PM
This dyke may be mentally ill. Or just a narcissistic piece of garbage. Shrug.

As for hate crimes, this wouldn't be one even if it was true. Moreover, hate crime laws are ridiculous. I make no secret of it.

Agreed.

Yeah - it would be in bad taste for someone to do/write something like that, but no laws were broken.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:08 PM
Fake hate crimes aren't that uncommon.Here’s a brief and partial recent history of hate-crime hoaxes, culled from various online sources including trendsinhate.com (http://trendsinhate.com/) (which contains accounts of several real hate crimes as well) and fakehatecrimes.org (http://fakehatecrimes.org/):2013: A New Jersey prep school student, running for student council president, received several deeply offensive racist text messages urging him to drop out of the race. But he eventually had to when police figured out he’d sent all of the messages to himself in a bid to gain sympathy (http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/08/the_black_st_peters_prep_student_who_received_raci st_text_during_his_run_for_student_council_sent_th .html#incart_m-rpt-1).

2013: Award-winning liberal blogger and 28-year-old University of Wyoming student Meg Lanker Simons goes on trial in October for allegedly anonymously threatening herself with rape on Facebook, then lying to police about it. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/03/meg-lanker-simons-hoax-university-wisconsin_n_3210326.html)

2011: UNC-Chapel Hill freshman Quinn Matney claimed to have been branded with a hot object by someone who called him an anti-gay slur. In fact, the wound was self-inflicted. When friends noticed it, he made up the story out of embarrassment to explain the injury. A friend, believing he’d actually been attacked, urged him to report it to police, and he did. (http://www.conservativeintel.com/2013/08/23/a-recent-history-of-hate-crime-hoaxes/)

2008: Elmhurst College student Safia Jilani claimed to have been attacked in a bathroom by a masked gunman and to have had her locker marked with a swastika, both because of her Islamic faith. At the time, her report caused a campus lockdown. She was later indicted for making a false report. (http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Elmhurst_Student_Faked_Attack.html#ixzz2coYQur4m)

2007: Colorado University student Alta Rae Merkling claimed to have been attacked by a group of men who cut an “X” into her face, shouting, “X marks the faggot!” She was later charged with filing a false report. (http://www.cuindependent.com/2007/11/16/alleged-victim-hit-with-class-three-misdemeanor/2000)

2007: Case Western Reserve statistics Prof Ramani Sri Pilla mailed hate letters to herself and then falsely accused her co-workers to the FBI — apparently an attempt to bolster a racial discrimination lawsuit she was bringing against her university. She got six months in prison and must pay the costs of the investigation — $66,000. (http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/11/case_prof_gets_prison_for_repo.html)

2007: Francisco Nava, a conservative student at Princeton, sent threatening emails to himself and a prominent Princeton professor, then made up a story about being beaten for his political beliefs. (http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2007/12/14/19743/)

2005: Alicia Hardin terrorized fellow black students at Trinity International University with threatening anonymous notes — possibly in an attempt to convince her parents to let her transfer to another school. She was convicted and sentenced to probation. (http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/27/nation/na-threat27)

2004: Claremont Professor Kerri Dunn slashed her own tires, and broke her own windows, and vandalized her own car with anti-semitic messages. An activist who constantly inveighed against hate, she had been seen vandalizing her own car by two random people in the parking lot. She ended up being sentenced to a year in prison for insurance fraud and was forced to repay $19,000. (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-607092.html)


- See more at: http://www.conservativeintel.com/2013/08/23/a-recent-history-of-hate-crime-hoaxes/#sthash.6ZatuI9f.dpuf

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:09 PM
A friend PMed me to ask why I hadn't been posting. Threads like these, for one.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:09 PM
They really aren't uncommon and the motivation is obvious.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:09 PM
a friend pmed me to ask why i hadn't been posting. Threads like these, for one.

cya

GrassrootsConservative
11-26-2013, 09:10 PM
Some people take the internet too seriously.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:10 PM
A friend PMed me to ask why I hadn't been posting. Threads like these, for one.Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:12 PM
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/2a/2aeef141ed98173d3e957f5e9abcdd5723cd5a2bc0a841f78f 6809c9a65dcaba.jpg

GrassrootsConservative
11-26-2013, 09:15 PM
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/2a/2aeef141ed98173d3e957f5e9abcdd5723cd5a2bc0a841f78f 6809c9a65dcaba.jpg

Gay men do the exact opposite. They act like pathetic little girls.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:22 PM
Do you have any tpf members who are LGBT?

Are they welcome here? I kinda doubt it.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:24 PM
Do you have any tpf members who are LGBT?

Are they welcome here? I kinda doubt it.

Sure. A mod, in fact. :laugh:

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:24 PM
Sure. A mod, in fact. :laugh:

I miss spunkloaf

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:26 PM
Sure. A mod, in fact. :laugh:

Ah, the token. Who is it?

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:27 PM
Ah, the token. Who is it?
bladimz

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:27 PM
... sorry

Peter1469
11-26-2013, 09:28 PM
Do you have any tpf members who are LGBT?

Are they welcome here? I kinda doubt it.

Anyone is welcome here. The only requirement is to follow the rules.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:28 PM
:laugh:

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:30 PM
Ah, the token. Who is it?

And she wonders why she gets a negative reaction.

Peter1469
11-26-2013, 09:30 PM
Ah, the token. Who is it?
sky dancer

Spunkloaf was a riot. Look up his user name on the Urban dictionary. I have posted with him on several boards. We even played chess a lot. He typically won.....

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:31 PM
I miss @spunkloaf (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=11)

He is missed. So that makes at least two I know of. Frankly, Cigar is a little weird sometimes so...

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:31 PM
We even have black doods here.

One at least - what happened to that other guy, the newbie?

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:32 PM
@sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841)

Spunkloaf was a riot. Look up his user name on the Urban dictionary. I have posted with him on several boards. We even played chess a lot. He typically won.....

Prone to occasional meltdowns but a good guy.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:33 PM
@sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841)

Spunkloaf was a riot. Look up his user name on the Urban dictionary. I have posted with him on several boards. We even played chess a lot. He typically won.....

I think he was the reason the original board got shut down. He went total batshit one day with another member... SeedyRom I think.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:33 PM
We even have black doods here.

One at least - what happened to that other guy, the newbie?

What? When did this happen?

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:33 PM
This is not an anti-lesbian thread. It is an anti-lying person thread. Some people think lesbians should get a pass on being liars because they are lesbians. That's part of the liberal mentality, which is that some people don't have to follow the rules the rest of us are bound by.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:34 PM
I think he was the reason the original board got shut down. He went total batshit one day with another member... SeedyRom I think.

There was a perceived threat involved. Serious enough that things got out of hand fast.

Peter1469
11-26-2013, 09:34 PM
Prone to occasional meltdowns but a good guy.

He had lots of mental issues, I hope that he is OK. He was a good poster for the liberal cause, at least until he had one of his "spells."

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:35 PM
He had lots of mental issues, I hope that he is OK. He was a good poster for the liberal cause, at least until he had one of his "spells."

I think I have his email. not sure if he still uses it though.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:35 PM
I have two comments. One is about the waitress' appearance. She looks like someone who has just gotten out of the service. Her haircut is pretty extreme. Her story is the family she served thought she was a man and commented on her appearance.

I don't know what happened at this restaurant, but if this woman is lying, then she is not right in the head. On the other hand, if none of us know the facts, our biases are revealed in whose side of the story we believe.

A side issue is hate crime legislation, and the amount of resistance a lot of people have to it, not understanding what hate crime is or isn't. If the waitress story is true this is an example of prejudice in action but it doesn't rise to the level of hate crime.

Hate crime is message crime, a form of terrorism whose aim is to scare and intimidate an entire class of citizens, or a church congregation or some such like that.

I think what bothers some people is that we are listening to a lesbian tell a story of prejudice and some of us think the woman deserves it for her unfeminine appearance.

And another person wants to create a feeling of loathing toward lesbians so he posts a picture of two obese women, since obesity is even more prejudicial than sexual preference.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:35 PM
What? When did this happen?

That dude - The Wash. Looked like a solid poster, fairly sharp guy.

He was around a lot at first then bam... gone.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:37 PM
That dude - The Wash. Looked like a solid poster, fairly sharp guy.

He was around a lot at first then bam... gone.

I was kidding. :grin:

Yeah, I was going to ask Code. Maybe he can only take so much of white folks. :undecided:

Green Arrow
11-26-2013, 09:38 PM
Ah, the token. Who is it?

I resent that remark, @sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841). I am nobody's token. I got where I am on my own merit.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:38 PM
I have two comments. One is about the waitress' appearance. She looks like someone who has just gotten out of the service. Her haircut is pretty extreme. Her story is the family she served thought she was a man and commented on her appearance.

I don't know what happened at this restaurant, but if this woman is lying, then she is not right in the head. On the other hand, if none of us know the facts, our biases are revealed in whose side of the story we believe.

A side issue is hate crime legislation, and the amount of resistance a lot of people have to it, not understanding what hate crime is or isn't. If the waitress story is true this is an example of prejudice in action but it doesn't rise to the level of hate crime.

Hate crime is message crime, a form of terrorism whose aim is to scare and intimidate an entire class of citizens, or a church congregation or some such like that.

I think what bothers some people is that we are listening to a lesbian tell a story of prejudice and some of us think the woman deserves it for her unfeminine appearance.

And another person wants to create a feeling of loathing toward lesbians so he posts a picture of two obese women, since obesity is even more prejudicial than sexual preference.

I don't disagree with you, the thread was posted to trash a gay person - who probably fucked up by trying this stunt.

But to say this forum is anti-gay is painting with a broad brush. It's an open forum. Bigotry like anything else legal will only go so far.

I don't think the forum bans bigots - in fact I know it doesn't unless it's harassment. Opinions aren't censored.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:40 PM
I resent that remark, @sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841). I am nobody's token. I got where I am on my own merit.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying that you are gay and you resent my use of the term "token"?

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:42 PM
I have two comments. One is about the waitress' appearance. She looks like someone who has just gotten out of the service. Her haircut is pretty extreme. Her story is the family she served thought she was a man and commented on her appearance.

I don't know what happened at this restaurant, but if this woman is lying, then she is not right in the head. On the other hand, if none of us know the facts, our biases are revealed in whose side of the story we believe.

A side issue is hate crime legislation, and the amount of resistance a lot of people have to it, not understanding what hate crime is or isn't. If the waitress story is true this is an example of prejudice in action but it doesn't rise to the level of hate crime.

Hate crime is message crime, a form of terrorism whose aim is to scare and intimidate an entire class of citizens, or a church congregation or some such like that.

I think what bothers some people is that we are listening to a lesbian tell a story of prejudice and some of us think the woman deserves it for her unfeminine appearance.

And another person wants to create a feeling of loathing toward lesbians so he posts a picture of two obese women, since obesity is even more prejudicial than sexual preference.
You're forgetting one important fact.

This woman made a false accusation against innocent people.

And yet you defend her any way, as if somehow it doesn't matter that she bears false witness against her neighbor.

Is it because once we throw out our morality on sex, and anything goes, then we do the same about other aspects of character, like truthfulness?

I don't want to live in that horrible world that you are creating with your "nothing is right or wrong" philosophy.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:45 PM
You're forgetting one important fact.

This woman made a false accusation against innocent people.

And yet you defend her any way, as if somehow it doesn't matter that she bears false witness against her neighbor.

Is it because once we throw out our morality on sex, and anything goes, then we do the same about other aspects of character, like truthfulness?

I don't want to live in that horrible world that you are creating with your "nothing is right or wrong" philosophy.

So if this was some chic with a boyfriend and a "I love Jesus" button on her blouse would you have posted this article?

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:45 PM
I don't disagree with you, the thread was posted to trash a gay person - who probably fucked up by trying this stunt.

But to say this forum is anti-gay is painting with a broad brush. It's an open forum. Bigotry like anything else legal will only go so far.

I don't think the forum bans bigots - in fact I know it doesn't unless it's harassment. Opinions aren't censored.


I know the forum doesn't ban bigots. There are a number of bigoted statements about lesbians and gay men on this thread.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:45 PM
I disagree with almost all of that but I realized before that I'm wasting my time with sky dancer. Her mind is made up that if you disagree with her you're hateful and immoral. Her attempt to describe the forum as anti-gay because we dare not be as outraged only confirms that.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:46 PM
So if this was some chic with a boyfriend and a "I love Jesus" button on her blouse would you have posted this article?

Could imagine the same story with this person you describe?

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:47 PM
I know the forum doesn't ban bigots. There are a number of bigoted statements about lesbians and gay men on this thread.

Sarah Palin takes a pounding here also.

(hurrrr!)

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:47 PM
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying that you are gay and you resent my use of the term "token"?

Uh, yeah.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:47 PM
I disagree with almost all of that but I realized before that I'm wasting my time with sky dancer. Her mind is made up that if you disagree with her you're hateful and immoral. Her attempt to describe the forum as anti-gay because we dare not be as outraged only confirms that.

It's very disrespectful to talk about me in the third person as if I weren't here. On the other hand, if you have put me on ignore because you've decided I'm NOT worth talking to, I can live with that.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:47 PM
Could imagine the same story with this person you describe?

Only if she had a bottle of Chesterfield in her hand.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:48 PM
So if this was some chic with a boyfriend and a "I love Jesus" button on her blouse would you have posted this article?
OK, so you want to give this woman a PASS because she's a lesbian. Just like you want to give Hillary Clinton a PASS for taking a bribe from rich plutocrats. Check. You have no moral compass. I understand now.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:48 PM
Sarah Palin takes a pounding here also.

(hurrrr!)

Oh, is Sarah Palin a lesbian? I hadn't heard that before.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:49 PM
It's very disrespectful to talk about me in the third person as if I weren't here. On the other hand, if you have put me on ignore because you've decided I'm NOT worth talking to, I can live with that.

It's very disrespectful to accuse people of being hateful because they don't agree with you. It's your MO. You're very insecure, sky. Do some thinking.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:50 PM
Oh, is Sarah Palin a lesbian? I hadn't heard that before.

She is?

Gotta link?

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 09:50 PM
It's very disrespectful to talk about me in the third person as if I weren't here. On the other hand, if you have put me on ignore because you've decided I'm NOT worth talking to, I can live with that.If you play the victim on this forum, people aren't going to respond positively.

sky dancer
11-26-2013, 09:50 PM
It's very disrespectful to accuse people of being hateful because they don't agree with you. It's your MO. You're very insecure, sky. Do some thinking.

Thank you for addressing me.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:51 PM
I resent that remark, @sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841). I am nobody's token. I got where I am on my own merit.

We all should. There are perhaps 2 or 3 folks here who seem like they might have something against gays.

Mister D
11-26-2013, 09:52 PM
Thank you for addressing me.

You're not getting a tip though. Sorry, I just can't. :wink:

Codename Section
11-26-2013, 09:55 PM
I'm feeling really good right now. I only read some of this, so I just want to say that because some marines went nuts in Haditha doesn't mean all do, and because some lesbian did whatever skydancer shouldn't or any other lesbian have to answer for that.

Ok don't ruin my buzz. I love life right now.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 09:59 PM
I'm feeling really good right now. I only read some of this, so I just want to say that because some marines went nuts in Haditha doesn't mean all do, and because some lesbian did whatever skydancer shouldn't or any other lesbian have to answer for that.

Ok don't ruin my buzz. I love life right now.
sky dancer 's a lesbian?

Hot damn!

Green Arrow
11-26-2013, 10:00 PM
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying that you are gay and you resent my use of the term "token"?

I'm the LGBTQ mod he was referring to, and you referred to as "token." So, yep.

Blackrook
11-26-2013, 10:00 PM
I think it's interesting that some people take the attitude "she's in my tribe so I'm going to defend her no matter what she does."

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 10:01 PM
I'm the LGBTQ mod he was referring to, and you referred to as "token." So, yep.

And you thought you were being hired because you're a libertarian.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 10:01 PM
I think it's interesting that some people take the attitude "she's in my tribe so I'm going to defend her no matter what she does."

She is in my tribe... actually.

Peter1469
11-26-2013, 10:02 PM
@sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841) 's a lesbian?

Hot damn!

Hey Cap, please don't spread rumors. Thanks.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 10:03 PM
sorry...

Mister D
11-26-2013, 10:06 PM
So what shall we take away from this? Lighten the f**k up everybody.

Captain Obvious
11-26-2013, 10:08 PM
So what shall we take away from this? Lighten the f**k up everybody.

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_6759825_fpxvbhsdj7.png

Peter1469
11-26-2013, 10:09 PM
So what shall we take away from this? Lighten the f**k up everybody.

I posted a youtube video on that topic.

jillian
11-26-2013, 10:33 PM
What a humanitarian...

i'll alert the media.

Dr. Who
11-26-2013, 11:58 PM
So, rather than believe this lesbian is guilty of making a false accusation, you indulge in a fantasy that some other customer or waiter snuck up to the table and wrote the note on the receipt while no one was looking.

That's pretty delusional.
Why would someone do that?
Well so what if she did write it. She had a perfect right if the people in question wrote that tripe to deny her a tip. I don't think she is lying. You don't serve as a marine and come out overly sensitive. She was targeted because she doesn't look feminine. There are straight women who don't look feminine. Should all women who don't look feminine be targets of bigotry and assumptions by a few that they are undeserving because of their appearance. The woman did not announce that she would be their gay wait person and if they don't like it suck it up. She apparently gave good service. It's one thing to be cheap an not leave a tip and quite another to decide that a person is not worthy of a tip because of some assumption about their lifestyle and then go on to leave a disrespectful message. What does anyone know about their wait persons in a restaurant? They could be a complete sexual predator, but the customer would never know. The private lives of wait people is none of their business. They are there to enjoy the fare of the restaurant and tip or not tip based on service or personal financial philosophy. Hurtful nasty messages are just that. If a Klanner family went to a restaurant, received great service from someone who was black and left a snarky message that notwithstanding the good service we cannot possibly tip you because we simply cannot abide black people, that would be OK?

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:02 AM
Well so what if she did write it. She had a perfect right if the people in question wrote that tripe to deny her a tip. I don't think she is lying. You don't serve as a marine and come out overly sensitive. She was targeted because she doesn't look feminine. There are straight women who don't look feminine. Should all women who don't look feminine be targets of bigotry and assumptions by a few that they are undeserving because of their appearance. The woman did not announce that she would be their gay wait person and if they don't like it suck it up. She apparently gave good service. It's one thing to be cheap an not leave a tip and quite another to decide that a person is not worthy of a tip because of some assumption about their lifestyle and then go on to leave a disrespectful message. What does anyone know about their wait persons in a restaurant? They could be a complete sexual predator, but the customer would never know. The private lives of wait people is none of their business. They are there to enjoy the fare of the restaurant and tip or not tip based on service or personal financial philosophy. Hurtful nasty messages are just that. If a Klanner family went to a restaurant, received great service from someone who was black and left a snarky message that notwithstanding the good service we cannot possibly tip you because we simply cannot abide black people, that would be OK?
You didn't read the story.

The customers accused proved that they neither wrote the note or failed to leave a tip. The woman customer is left-handed and the note was written by a right-handed person. They have their credit card receipt proving they left a tip. Also, the customers are not anti-gay, in fact they didn't vote for Chris Christie because he opposed same-sex marriage.

This lesbian waitress lied, and that has been proven.

Read the damn story.

Dr. Who
11-27-2013, 12:33 AM
You didn't read the story.

The customers accused proved that they neither wrote the note or failed to leave a tip. The woman customer is left-handed and the note was written by a right-handed person. They have their credit card receipt proving they left a tip. Also, the customers are not anti-gay, in fact they didn't vote for Chris Christie because he opposed same-sex marriage.

This lesbian waitress lied, and that has been proven.

Read the damn story.

Ok missed one of the links. Still seems odd for a marine.

roadmaster
11-27-2013, 01:44 AM
It's not common but not that uncommon. Like the black woman not long ago putting KKK, and burning herself but she didn't mean to burn herself bad but couldn't put out the fire trying to blame it as a hate crime but after things didn't look right confessed and the police found her finger prints on the liquid can. Some people look for attention.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 01:50 AM
Here is Gallop Asian Bistro's yelp page:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/gallop-asian-bistro-bridgewater (http://www.yelp.com/biz/gallop-asian-bistro-bridgewater)

I predict that the bad publicity of this incident will quickly sink this business and it will soon be closing its doors.

Even if the waitress was telling the truth, she was wrong to publicize a dispute with a customer over a tip. She made her employer look very bad, and they should have fired her immediately instead of supporting her.

People are NOT going to go to a restaurant where a dispute with a waitress over a tip can bring down national condemnation upon their heads.

roadmaster
11-27-2013, 02:14 AM
Even if the waitress was telling the truth, she was wrong to publicize a dispute with a customer over a tip. She made her employer look very bad, and they should have fired her immediately instead of supporting her.
Most people will just not leave a tip and don't feel the need to explain. Looks like they did leave a tip so it could have been another table or she could have wrote this herself or had someone to write it. I just wonder if she had gotten bad reviews in the past or if she was looking for sympathy hoping people would come to her rescue and give her big tips. If she did do this she should be fired on the spot and yes complaining about tips doesn't help the place. I know a heavyset waitress that did this for attention because they found out she wrote the message, she just didn't go to the press.

Mister D
11-27-2013, 08:41 AM
Ok missed one of the links. Still seems odd for a marine.

Plenty of scumbags, degenerates, and weirdos in the armed forces. Just like anywhere else.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 09:23 AM
Here's what I think: this isn't news. This is a squabble.

It's only news if a horde of lesbians plot to lie about tips or a horde of former marines use the tips to build a secret lair while systematically keeping the government from taxing them on the money.

What these things do and I'll explain for people who aren't in a "group" is that when you focus on this one lesbian and focus in this way it makes anyone who's a lesbian feel bad and like they have to explain and to me it aint worth potentially hurting someone to talk about shit that's not national news.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 09:28 AM
Ok missed one of the links. Still seems odd for a marine.
Marines are people too. With all the faults, prejudices and failings of non-marines. Oswald was a Marine.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 09:30 AM
Marines are people too. With all the faults, prejudices and failings of non-marines. Oswald was a Marine.

Great shot, apparently.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 09:35 AM
I was kidding. :grin:

Yeah, I was going to ask Code. Maybe he can only take so much of white folks. :undecided:

He's on a job. Radio silence.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 09:43 AM
Great shot, apparently.

And with a $20 piece of crap Italian rifle...

Agravan
11-27-2013, 09:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5IWK9sRYTs

bladimz
11-27-2013, 10:56 AM
@bladimz (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=7)Ohhhhh. For that you get a BIG KISS, Captain Obvious

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 11:21 AM
I don't have a tribe.

If this woman lied, then she lied. It doesn't mean lesbians are not subject to prejudice, EVER, it means that it didn't happen in this case.

And what some people have done with the thread is use it to call out and insult ALL lesbians.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 11:22 AM
I don't have a tribe.

You should have a tribe. Tribes are cool. :D

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 11:26 AM
You should have a tribe. Tribes are cool. :D

Well, I don't.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 11:28 AM
Well, I don't.

We should start one. I get to be the warrior and you can be like the medicine woman or something. We just need a chief...

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 11:33 AM
I don't have a tribe.

If this woman lied, then she lied. It doesn't mean lesbians are not subject to prejudice, EVER, it means that it didn't happen in this case.

And what some people have done with the thread is use it to call out and insult ALL lesbians.
Wasn't me. I did not criticize this woman for being a lesbian, but for being a liar. What bothered me is that you rushed to her defense even though you didn't bother to learn the facts, and only because she is a lesbian. That's the mentality I'm trying to point out in this thread. The, "well, she's the same (race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnic group) as me, so I'm going to defend her and deny she's guilty regardless of the facts."

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 11:35 AM
Wasn't me. I did not criticize this woman for being a lesbian, but for being a liar. What bothered me is that you rushed to her defense even though you didn't bother to learn the facts, and only because she is a lesbian. That's the mentality I'm trying to point out in this thread. The, "well, she's the same (race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnic group) as me, so I'm going to defend her and deny she's guilty regardless of the facts."

Perhaps, but you also only posted this story because she's a lesbian. There is no "news" about someone stiffing someone for a tip, nor lying about a tip you didn't get. Happens all over the country ever day, I imagine.

Ravi
11-27-2013, 11:37 AM
Wasn't me. I did not criticize this woman for being a lesbian, but for being a liar. What bothered me is that you rushed to her defense even though you didn't bother to learn the facts, and only because she is a lesbian. That's the mentality I'm trying to point out in this thread. The, "well, she's the same (race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnic group) as me, so I'm going to defend her and deny she's guilty regardless of the facts."
Your thread title gives you away.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 11:39 AM
Wasn't me. I did not criticize this woman for being a lesbian, but for being a liar. What bothered me is that you rushed to her defense even though you didn't bother to learn the facts, and only because she is a lesbian. That's the mentality I'm trying to point out in this thread. The, "well, she's the same (race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnic group) as me, so I'm going to defend her and deny she's guilty regardless of the facts."

No, I don't defend anyone who is lying, I'm saying we may not have all the facts yet. AND that some people assume the woman is lying BECAUSE she is a lesbian, and they use that as an excuse to insult ALL gay and lesbian people.

If this woman lied then she is mentally ill, possibly has some kind of character disorder. That doesn't give you or anyone else the right to presume that anyone who disagrees with your view "lacks a moral compass", weights 500 pounds, or is committing some kind of crime.

Either this is or isn't an incident involving prejudice, but it does not rise to the level of a crime.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 11:41 AM
No, I don't defend anyone who is lying, I'm saying we may not have all the facts yet. AND that some people assume the woman is lying BECAUSE she is a lesbian, and they use that as an excuse to insult ALL gay and lesbian people.

I think it's because she was a marine. The public hates us now. I don't know why either. We're so awesome. :D

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:15 PM
No, I don't defend anyone who is lying, I'm saying we may not have all the facts yet. AND that some people assume the woman is lying BECAUSE she is a lesbian, and they use that as an excuse to insult ALL gay and lesbian people.

If this woman lied then she is mentally ill, possibly has some kind of character disorder. That doesn't give you or anyone else the right to presume that anyone who disagrees with your view "lacks a moral compass", weights 500 pounds, or is committing some kind of crime.

Either this is or isn't an incident involving prejudice, but it does not rise to the level of a crime.
I said that a person lacks a moral compass when they give a lesbian a pass on lying because she's a lesbian, and gives Hillary Clinton a pass on taking a $450,000 bribe because she's a Democrat.

All your other accusations are untrue. I said none of these things.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:21 PM
Your thread title gives you away.
Gives me away for what? I have never done anything to harm a homosexual. I've had homosexual clients. I had a homosexual barber. I've had homosexual waiters serve me at restaurants. My son has a friend who is homosexual.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:22 PM
Perhaps, but you also only posted this story because she's a lesbian. There is no "news" about someone stiffing someone for a tip, nor lying about a tip you didn't get. Happens all over the country ever day, I imagine.Well, you're not paying attention. When this lesbian made the false accusation on the internet, it made national news. Now she is exposed as a liar and a fraud, and you're attempting to change the topic.

Green Arrow
11-27-2013, 12:24 PM
We should start one. I get to be the warrior and you can be like the medicine woman or something. We just need a chief...

*cough*

:D

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:31 PM
What this story reminds me of is the 18-year-old woman who was having sex with a 14-year-old girl. She turned it in to a national issue because she's a lesbian, and seemed to think that because she was a lesbian, the laws protecting minors from sexual predators shouldn't apply to her. And I saw a lot of people defending her on the forum I was on, and only because she was a lesbian.

And my son has a homosexual friend who is 17-years-old and he is having sex with a man who is 33. That's just wrong, even if it's legal.

If the homosexuals want to be accepted, they play by the same rules as the rest of us.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 12:43 PM
Well, you're not paying attention. When this lesbian made the false accusation on the internet, it made national news. Now she is exposed as a liar and a fraud, and you're attempting to change the topic.

It made national news? I'm sceptical.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:51 PM
It made national news? I'm sceptical.
Wow. I linked to the national story which was on the internet, and you're skeptical that it's a national story. I can't fucking believe it.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 12:54 PM
Wow. I linked to the national story which was on the internet, and you're skeptical that it's a national story. I can't fucking believe it.

National stories for wastrels and people who care about nonsense maybe. Sorry if my standards for what is a national story applies to legislation or international meddling.

I'd make a comment about what silly things Americans place importance on, but the entire forum would have a meltdown.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 12:57 PM
National stories for wastrels and people who care about nonsense maybe. Sorry if my standards for what is a national story applies to legislation or international meddling.

I'd make a comment about what silly things Americans place importance on, but the entire forum would have a meltdown.
You are free to make all the anti-American comments you want, and there won't be a meltdown. We Americans are quite used to foreigners taking potshots at our country. We don't bruise easily.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 12:59 PM
You are free to make all the anti-American comments you want, and there won't be a meltdown. We Americans are quite used to foreigners taking potshots at our country. We don't bruise easily.

Very well. It's quite silly to place such an emphasis on transactions within a restaurant whilst you can't create a budget, are becoming an Orwellian police state, and can't keep your noses out of the affairs of other nations.

patrickt
11-27-2013, 01:13 PM
Paperback Writer: "National stories for wastrels and people who care about nonsense maybe. Sorry if my standards for what is a national story applies to legislation or international meddling."

You have no standards but you're desperate to avoid saying you made a mistake. Skeptical is not synonymous with pitiful, Paperback.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 01:26 PM
Very well. It's quite silly to place such an emphasis on transactions within a restaurant whilst you can't create a budget, are becoming an Orwellian police state, and can't keep your noses out of the affairs of other nations.I'm sure if I read your country's newspapers, it would also be filled with stories you consider silly. There's a British newspaper that shows a girl with her shirt off in every issue. That's pretty silly don't you think?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 01:29 PM
What this story reminds me of is the 18-year-old woman who was having sex with a 14-year-old girl. She turned it in to a national issue because she's a lesbian, and seemed to think that because she was a lesbian, the laws protecting minors from sexual predators shouldn't apply to her. And I saw a lot of people defending her on the forum I was on, and only because she was a lesbian.

And my son has a homosexual friend who is 17-years-old and he is having sex with a man who is 33. That's just wrong, even if it's legal.

If the homosexuals want to be accepted, they play by the same rules as the rest of us.

You will NEVER accept gay and lesbian people as the same as you. NEVER.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:01 PM
You will NEVER accept gay and lesbian people as the same as you. NEVER.
Why does it matter to you what one man thinks?

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 02:03 PM
I'm sure if I read your country's newspapers, it would also be filled with stories you consider silly. There's a British newspaper that shows a girl with her shirt off in every issue. That's pretty silly don't you think?

Not at all. :D

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:04 PM
Why does it matter to you what one man thinks?

In the long run, it doesn't matter. It's annoying to encounter such a closed mind set here, that's all.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:05 PM
You will NEVER accept gay and lesbian people as the same as you. NEVER.
That is true. Homosexuals are not the same as me. They engage in sexual behavior which I believe to be immoral. But that's not what concerns me. If they kept their immoral behavior as a private matter, as most sexual outliers do, then I would not be concerned. But homosexuals are engaging in an all-out war on our culture, an all-out war on Christianity, and an all-out effort to recruit young people into their deviant lifestyle. I see what's going on with my son's high school friends and it disturbs me.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:06 PM
That is true. Homosexuals are not the same as me. They engage in sexual behavior which I believe to be immoral. But that's not what concerns me. If they kept their immoral behavior as a private matter, as most sexual outliers do, then I would not be concerned. But homosexuals are engaging in an all-out war on our culture, an all-out war on Christianity, and an all-out effort to recruit young people into their deviant lifestyle. I see what's going on with my son's high school friends and it disturbs me.

Very bigoted post. You just outed yourself. I suspected as much.

There are so many lies in your post it would take me a long time to address each one, and frankly, you're not worth it.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:07 PM
In the long run, it doesn't matter. It's annoying to encounter such a closed mind set here, that's all.
If you don't want to be annoyed by people with opinions that aren't the same as your own, why do you spend time posting on a political forum?

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 02:07 PM
That is true. Homosexuals are not the same as me. They engage in sexual behavior which I believe to be immoral. But that's not what concerns me. If they kept their immoral behavior as a private matter, as most sexual outliers do, then I would not be concerned. But homosexuals are engaging in an all-out war on our culture, an all-out war on Christianity, and an all-out effort to recruit young people into their deviant lifestyle. I see what's going on with my son's high school friends and it disturbs me.

Can you be recruited? I've seen a lot of good looking blokes and I've never thought to shag one of them.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:07 PM
If you don't want to be annoyed by people with opinions that aren't the same as your own, why do you spend time posting on a political forum?

Check my post count. I spend very little time here.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:08 PM
In the long run, it doesn't matter. It's annoying to encounter such a closed mind set here, that's all.
Obviously it does, else you would just walk away from it instead of accusing anyone that does not agree with you of being anti-gay bigots.
Speaking of close-minded, have you even thought to look at it from the other side? Of course not. You're right and that's that, right? Close-minded people are those that do not whole-heartedly agree with the liberal cause du jour.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Very bigoted post. You just outed yourself. I suspected as much.

There are so many lies in your post it would take me a long time to address each one, and frankly, you're not worth it.

So anyone who's morality differs from your own is bigoted?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Obviously it does, else you would just walk away from it instead of accusing anyone that does not agree with you of being anti-gay bigots.
Speaking of close-minded, have you even thought to look at it from the other side? Of course not. You're right and that's that, right? Close-minded people are those that do not whole-heartedly agree with the liberal cause du jour.

I'm accusing no one. I'm reporting the truth. Quite a number of posts on this thread, and the other one, express bigoted opinions.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Very bigoted post. You just outed yourself. I suspected as much.

There are so many lies in your post it would take me a long time to address each one, and frankly, you're not worth it.
I outed myself as what?

I believe that homosexual sexual encounters are immoral. There are billions of people who agree with me. Are we all bigots?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:11 PM
So anyone who's morality differs from your own is bigoted?

I consider someone whose morality is different from mine nothing more than that. People who have bigoted views take it a lot further and you know that.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:12 PM
I outed myself as what?

I believe that homosexual sexual encounters are immoral. There are billions of people who agree with me. Are we all bigots?

Go back and read your former post. It's bigoted.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:12 PM
I'm accusing no one. I'm reporting the truth. Quite a number of posts on this thread, and the other one, express bigoted opinions.
And, once again, a liberal expresses that their "truth" is the only truth and everyone else is wrong.
Nevermind, it was a waste of time trying to engage you in a debate. Carry on with your bigotry and close-minded hatred.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 02:12 PM
I outed myself as what?

I believe that homosexual sexual encounters are immoral. There are billions of people who agree with me. Are we all bigots?

Do you want to talk about things "God" allegedly did in the Old Testament that we consider immoral today? No. Neither do I. This bloody thread is about tipping, not homosexuality or lesbians.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:13 PM
I'm accusing no one. I'm reporting the truth. Quite a number of posts on this thread, and the other one, express bigoted opinions.
Don't talk about what other people said. Focus on what I said. You can't debate me by throwing everything other people are saying and assuming it's me that's saying it.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:13 PM
Don't talk about what other people said. Focus on what I said. You can't debate me by throwing everything other people are saying and assuming it's me that's saying it.

You're not the only one writing posts with bigoted views. You have company, for sure.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:14 PM
Do you want to talk about things "God" allegedly did in the Old Testament that we consider immoral today? No. Neither do I. This bloody thread is about tipping, not homosexuality or lesbians.I'm not the person who changed the topic of the thread. But speaking of changing the topic of the thread, you are the most guilty of all, talking about American imperialism and whatnot in a thread about tipping.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:14 PM
I consider someone whose morality is different from mine nothing more than that. People who have bigoted views take it a lot further and you know that.Really? I found homosexual behavior immoral as well, but, that said, I treat gay people as I would like to be treated. I can accept them as people while not accepting their lifestyle. I have gay members of my family that I talk with and interact with. Are you now going to accuse me of being a bigot because I disagree with their lifestyle?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:15 PM
Do you want to talk about things "God" allegedly did in the Old Testament that we consider immoral today? No. Neither do I. This bloody thread is about tipping, not homosexuality or lesbians.

It's about tipping and it's about lying. The fact that a butch looking lesbian happens to be in the story lets the bigots drool their contempt for ALL gay and lesbian people, no matter what great citizens many of us are.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:16 PM
Do you want to talk about things "God" allegedly did in the Old Testament that we consider immoral today? No. Neither do I. This bloody thread is about tipping, not homosexuality or lesbians.
It was about tipping, until Sky started ranting about homosexuals...

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:17 PM
Really? I found homosexual behavior immoral as well, but, that said, I treat gay people as I would like to be treated. I can accept them as people while not accepting their lifestyle. I have gay members of my family that I talk with and interact with. Are you now going to accuse me of being a bigot because I disagree with their lifestyle?

No, I'm not accusing anyone of BEING a bigot. I'm saying a number of statements made in the thread and the other one express bigoted views.

Most gay and lesbians I know could give a shit whether you or anyone else thinks we're "moral" in the eyes of YOUR GOD. We want to marry and not be discriminated against, period.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:18 PM
It was about tipping, until Sky started ranting about homosexuals...

Oh, people were ranting about homosexuals on this forum long before I started posting here.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 02:18 PM
I'm not the person who changed the topic of the thread. But speaking of changing the topic of the thread, you are the most guilty of all, talking about American imperialism and whatnot in a thread about tipping.

I've said that what I consider "news" is more serious than who tipped whom. That's my comment on this idiocy.

Would you rather I say: bad, bad, bad old lesbian!

nic34
11-27-2013, 02:18 PM
If I decide to pay with a credit card and use cash for the tip, I write cash on the tip line.



Thanks for the tip!

(couldn't resist)

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:19 PM
I've said that what I consider "news" is more serious than who tipped whom. That's my comment on this idiocy.

Would you rather I say: bad, bad, bad old lesbian!

Thanks exactly what he'd say. We are NOT people, not human to him, just sex acts.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:19 PM
You're not the only one writing posts with bigoted views. You have company, for sure.All I've said is that I consider homosexual sex to be immoral. The vast majority of Christians agree with me. This belief is based on direct quotes from the Bible. God created man and woman, and they will cleave to one another, and become one flesh. Catholics consider the joining of man and woman to be holy, and marriage is a sacrament, and the marriage bond can never be broken. To accept homosexuality, Catholics would have to throw out the window everything they believe about the sanctity of marriage. You're not going to do that. It is possible that the Protestant churches will eventually bend on this, as they have on so many other issues like birth control and divorce, but the Catholic teaching will remain unchanged until the end of time.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:22 PM
No, I'm not accusing anyone of BEING a bigot. I'm saying a number of statements made in the thread and the other one express bigoted views.

Most gay and lesbians I know could give a shit whether you or anyone else thinks we're "moral" in the eyes of YOUR GOD. We want to marry and not be discriminated against, period.

Bull... all you've done this entire thread is accuse Blackrook and anyone that disagrees with you as being bigoted. you've gone so far as to accuse the entire forum as being anti-gay. the fact of the matter is a lesbian woman accused a couple of an anti-gay act in order to cause a stir and make money (she has been receiving thousands of dollars in "donations). She has been caught lying and your trying to deflect and make it all about her being gay and not about her using her homosexuality to lie and make a buck.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:23 PM
Thanks exactly what he'd say. We are NOT people, not human to him, just sex acts.
Where did he say that? Or are you projecting your thoughts onto him?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:24 PM
All I've said is that I consider homosexual sex to be immoral. The vast majority of Christians agree with me. This belief is based on direct quotes from the Bible. God created man and woman, and they will cleave to one another, and become one flesh. Catholics consider the joining of man and woman to be holy, and marriage is a sacrament, and the marriage bond can never be broken. To accept homosexuality, Catholics would have to throw out the window everything they believe about the sanctity of marriage. You're not going to do that. It is possible that the Protestant churches will eventually bend on this, as they have on so many other issues like birth control and divorce, but the Catholic teaching will remain unchanged until the end of time.
First of all, you don't speak for a majority. EVER. You speak for yourself.

You think you have a right to force your narrow minded Christian beliefs on other people who aren't Christian. Considering how many CHRISTIAN marriage end up in divorce, one could recommend they practice Buddhist ethics.

Let me show you the morality I keep. It's no different than any other Buddhist:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:25 PM
First of all, you don't speak for a majority. EVER. You speak for yourself.

You think you have a right to force your narrow minded Christian beliefs on other people who aren't Christian.

Let me show you the morality I keep. It's no different than any other Buddhist:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."



But YOU have the right to force YOUR narrow-minded homosexual beliefs on everyone? That works both ways, lady...

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:27 PM
But YOU have the right to force YOUR narrow-minded homosexual beliefs on everyone? That works both ways, lady...

I am not forcing anyone to practice homosexuality or to give up their religious views. YOU on the other hand, don't want gays and lesbian citizens to enjoy the same civil rights you have.

Re-read my post and the inclusion of the Third Precept for Buddhists and try and tell me I'm living an immoral life.

The only people truly obsessed about gay sex are the bigoted hets. Sex is one part of my life, and it isn't the most important component in my marriage.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:28 PM
First of all, you don't speak for a majority. EVER. You speak for yourself.

You think you have a right to force your narrow minded Christian beliefs on other people who aren't Christian. Considering how many CHRISTIAN marriage end up in divorce, one could recommend they practice Buddhist ethics.

Let me show you the morality I keep. It's no different than any other Buddhist:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."


I note that you have not provided a link.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:29 PM
I note that you have not provided a link.

Why should I? I have memorized the precept because I say it and keep it every single day. The quote happens to come from this text; For a Future to Be Possible: Commentaries on the Five Wonderful Precepts (1993) by Thich Nhat Hanh.

Thich Nhat Hanh is a Vietname Buddhist monk and meditation teacher. You will note that homosexuality is NOT singled out for sin. Sexual misconduct is clearly described and both gay and het Buddhists keep the same vows..

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:30 PM
I am not forcing anyone to practice homosexuality or to give up their religious views. YOU on the other hand, don't want gays and lesbian citizens to enjoy the same civil rights you have.

Re-read my post and the inclusion of the Third Precept for Buddhists and try and tell me I'm living an immoral life.
Christians who oppose same-sex marriage and don't want to provide florist or photography services to same-sex weddings are being sued by homosexuals. What is your position on that?

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:31 PM
Why should I? I have memorized the precept because I say it and keep it every single day.On a forum, you provide a link when you quote some other source.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 02:33 PM
I am not forcing anyone to practice homosexuality or to give up their religious views. YOU on the other hand, don't want gays and lesbian citizens to enjoy the same civil rights you have.

Re-read my post and the inclusion of the Third Precept for Buddhists and try and tell me I'm living an immoral life.

The only people truly obsessed about gay sex are the bigoted hets. Sex is one part of my life, and it isn't the most important component in my marriage.

You're not trying to for anyone to participate in homosexuality, but you damned sure are trying to force everyone to accept it, regardless of their personal beliefs.
You have every single civil right I have. You can get a civil union (marriage) but you can't FORCE a church to marry you. The only gays that are discriminated against are those that shove their homosexuality in your face and dare you to do something about it. AND THEY DESERVE IT FOR BEING BELLIGERENT.

kilgram
11-27-2013, 02:33 PM
Christians who oppose same-sex marriage and don't want to provide florist or photography services to same-sex weddings are being sued by homosexuals. What is your position on that?
Whites who oppose black people and don't want to provide florist or phography services to weddings of black people are being sued by blacks. What is your position on that?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:35 PM
Christians who oppose same-sex marriage and don't want to provide florist or photography services to same-sex weddings are being sued by homosexuals. What is your position on that?

None of my business. I don't give my money away to bigoted companies. I'd simply choose another florist or photography service, AND I would point out the bigotry to everyone I know.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:36 PM
Whites who oppose black people and don't want to provide florist or phography services to weddings of black people are being sued by blacks. What is your position on that?
Do they have a religious objection to black people getting married?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 02:40 PM
You're not trying to for anyone to participate in homosexuality, but you damned sure are trying to force everyone to accept it, regardless of their personal beliefs.
You have every single civil right I have. You can get a civil union (marriage) but you can't FORCE a church to marry you. The only gays that are discriminated against are those that shove their homosexuality in your face and dare you to do something about it. AND THEY DESERVE IT FOR BEING BELLIGERENT.

Nope. I'm asking you to respect people's beliefs who aren't Christian, such as my own. You want to shove YOUR morality down my throat. You really sound hateful to me, which is sad.

Yes, I now have the right to collect social security of my legal spouse same as you. That's what enrages you.

kilgram
11-27-2013, 02:43 PM
Do they have a religious objection to black people getting married?
Oh yeah. The famous conscience objection. Hey, my religion forbids to my children study maths in School. They should not study maths there :)

However, I would directly not buy to that bigotted business.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 02:48 PM
Oh yeah. The famous conscience objection. Hey, my religion forbids to my children study maths in School. They should not study maths there :)

However, I would directly not buy to that bigotted business.
The Amish won that battle so you are actually incorrect in your assumptions. They do not have to send their children to school past eighth grade, based on their religious beliefs.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 03:03 PM
Nope. I'm asking you to respect people's beliefs who aren't Christian, such as my own. You want to shove YOUR morality down my throat. You really sound hateful to me, which is sad.

Yes, I now have the right to collect social security of my legal spouse same as you. That's what enrages you.

Don't project your hatefulness onto me. What makes you think I'm enraged about anything? The fact that I disagree with your lifestyle? I don't care about your lifestyle, I'm not trying to change anyone or force anything on anyone. It's you people trying to force me and mine to accept you without reservation.
As far as your comment about heteros being obsessed about sex, we're not the ones that have to point out to everyone that we're straight or that we like the opposite sex. Again, it's you people trying to shove your sexuality down our throats by brining it up in inappropriate venues. You will not gain acceptance as long as you are obnoxious and belligerent, just as you've proven yourself in this thread.

kilgram
11-27-2013, 03:06 PM
Don't project your hatefulness onto me. What makes you think I'm enraged about anything? The fact that I disagree with your lifestyle? I don't care about your lifestyle, I'm not trying to change anyone or force anything on anyone. It's you people trying to force me and mine to accept you without reservation.
As far as your comment about heteros being obsessed about sex, we're not the ones that have to point out to everyone that we're straight or that we like the opposite sex. Again, it's you people trying to shove your sexuality down our throats by brining it up in inappropriate venues. You will not gain acceptance as long as you are obnoxious and belligerent, just as you've proven yourself in this thread.
MMMM, Let's see, you see a couple kissing, what is your reaction?

What is your reaction if this couple are two guys?

Do you have the same reaction?

Agravan
11-27-2013, 03:09 PM
MMMM, Let's see, you see a couple kissing, what is your reaction?

What is your reaction if this couple are two guys?

Do you have the same reaction?

No, naturally. I see it as unnatural and immoral. But then, I just walk away.
It would also depend on where the kissing was taking place. If it was in an inappropriate place, then I would be disgusted regardless of who was kissing whom.

kilgram
11-27-2013, 03:15 PM
No, naturally. I see it as unnatural and immoral. But then, I just walk away.
It would also depend on where the kissing was taking place. If it was in an inappropriate place, then I would be disgusted regardless of who was kissing whom.
Perfect. No more questions. But you should check the post hereinbefore, because you are contradicting yourself.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 03:19 PM
MMMM, Let's see, you see a couple kissing, what is your reaction?

What is your reaction if this couple are two guys?

Do you have the same reaction?

My reaction is totally different because I find women attractive and men repulsive. When people kiss they are --slightly--bringing sexuality to bear in a public place. It means I have to see men in a sexual light and my gut reaction is "yuck". I can't help my gut reaction. Lesbians kissing unfortunately makes me want to stare. Women are beautiful and I'm sure lesbians think so too. Also, I'd rather see two women kiss than a dude and a chick for that matter.

What my gut reaction is does not have anything to do with what I feel should be done about it, which is nothing. I can control my gut reactions.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 03:21 PM
None of my business. I don't give my money away to bigoted companies. I'd simply choose another florist or photography service, AND I would point out the bigotry to everyone I know.

@skydancer

well said.


Everyone else...why does she have to be the gay and lesbian spokesperson?

nic34
11-27-2013, 03:22 PM
Don't project your hatefulness onto me. What makes you think I'm enraged about anything? The fact that I disagree with your lifestyle? I don't care about your lifestyle, I'm not trying to change anyone or force anything on anyone. It's you people trying to force me and mine to accept you without reservation.
As far as your comment about heteros being obsessed about sex, we're not the ones that have to point out to everyone that we're straight or that we like the opposite sex. Again, it's you people trying to shove your sexuality down our throats by brining it up in inappropriate venues. You will not gain acceptance as long as you are obnoxious and belligerent, just as you've proven yourself in this thread.

Your post is a contradiction.

"It's you people trying to force me and mine to accept you without reservation."

"You will not gain acceptance as long as you are obnoxious and belligerent"

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 03:34 PM
I'm going to say this. Even if this waitress' story was true, it was wrong for her to put a receipt signed by a private citizen on the internet and expose her to public condemnation. This was a private dispute between a waitress and a customer. The restaurant should have fired this waitress immediately and they made a big mistake in supporting her. People will now avoid this restaurant like the plague, for fear that the same thing will happen to them. I predict this restaurant will soon be out of business.

Dangermouse
11-27-2013, 04:15 PM
The only people who need worry in your somewhat emotive scenario, are bigots. The staff can feel supported by an exemplary employer who value their employees.

Green Arrow
11-27-2013, 04:41 PM
First of all, you don't speak for a majority. EVER. You speak for yourself.

You think you have a right to force your narrow minded Christian beliefs on other people who aren't Christian. Considering how many CHRISTIAN marriage end up in divorce, one could recommend they practice Buddhist ethics.

Let me show you the morality I keep. It's no different than any other Buddhist:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."



You are wound up way too tight on this subject. Relax. I don't knoe of anyone here that is hateful or bigoted toward us LGBTQ folks. There's no reason to get so defensive.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:16 PM
Don't project your hatefulness onto me. What makes you think I'm enraged about anything? The fact that I disagree with your lifestyle? I don't care about your lifestyle, I'm not trying to change anyone or force anything on anyone. It's you people trying to force me and mine to accept you without reservation.
As far as your comment about heteros being obsessed about sex, we're not the ones that have to point out to everyone that we're straight or that we like the opposite sex. Again, it's you people trying to shove your sexuality down our throats by brining it up in inappropriate venues. You will not gain acceptance as long as you are obnoxious and belligerent, just as you've proven yourself in this thread.

First of all, I don't need to gain acceptance about my relationship because I already have it. My entire Buddhist community was present when my wife and I married. My family accept me. My extended community accepts me. I don't need YOUR acceptance, nor do I need the acceptance of your bigoted church.

What you'd like to do is make gay and lesbian people feel badly about ourselves.

Too bad. You don't get your wish.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 06:17 PM
Your post is a contradiction.

"It's you people trying to force me and mine to accept you without reservation."

"You will not gain acceptance as long as you are obnoxious and belligerent"



How so, Nic? Belligerence will not get you accepted, or will it?

Agravan
11-27-2013, 06:23 PM
First of all, I don't need to gain acceptance about my relationship because I already have it. My entire Buddhist community was present when my wife and I married. My family accept me. My extended community accepts me. I don't need YOUR acceptance, nor do I need the acceptance of your bigoted church.

What you'd like to do is make gay and lesbian people feel badly about ourselves.

Too bad. You don't get your wish.
Really, so, before, you knew what Blackrook was feeling, now you know what I feel or what I'd like? Lady, you don't know me. You know only what I have posted in response to your hatefulness and belligerence in this thread. I could care less what you do in your twisted version of reality. I disagree with your lifestyle, but you're the one living it so it has no effect on me. But I will never ACCEPT it as being normal. If you like what you have, then by all means, knock yourself out. I do not care. But when you try to project your bigotry and hatefulness onto other people, you will get exactly the type of response that you deserve.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 06:32 PM
It's an escalation.

First homosexuals wanted their sexual acts to be legal. So the laws against sodomy were repealed, or overturned by the courts. Fair enough.

Then they wanted tolerance. Fair enough.

Then they wanted acceptance. Now, there's a problem.

Christians cannot accept the homosexual lifestyle without abandoning basic tenets of the Christian faith.

And things get worse. A woman who owned a flower shop was driven out of business because she did not want to sell flowers to a same-sex wedding ceremony.

So now, Christians are being FORCED by the law to participate in same-sex marriage, which is a blasphemy, or lose their livelihood.

What happens next?

Who knows, but the ball is still rolling.

My guess is that in England, the government is going to force Church of England priests to officiate at same-sex weddings, or lose their jobs.

And the next step after that will be when American military chaplains are given that same choice.

The world is not big enough for the Christian faith and the modern aggressive homosexual agenda to exist side-by-side.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:33 PM
Really, so, before, you knew what Blackrook was feeling, now you know what I feel or what I'd like? Lady, you don't know me. You know only what I have posted in response to your hatefulness and belligerence in this thread. I could care less what you do in your twisted version of reality. I disagree with your lifestyle, but you're the one living it so it has no effect on me. But I will never ACCEPT it as being normal. If you like what you have, then by all means, knock yourself out. I do not care. But when you try to project your bigotry and hatefulness onto other people, you will get exactly the type of response that you deserve.

I can and will challenge bigoted statements about LGBT whether you like or not.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:34 PM
It's an escalation.

First homosexuals wanted their sexual acts to be legal. So the laws against sodomy were repealed, or overturned by the courts. Fair enough.

Then they wanted tolerance. Fair enough.

Then they wanted acceptance. Now, there's a problem.

Christians cannot accept the homosexual lifestyle without abandoning basic tenets of the Christian faith.

And things get worse. A woman who owned a flower shop was driven out of business because she did not want to sell flowers to a same-sex wedding ceremony.

So now, Christians are being FORCED by the law to participate in same-sex marriage, which is a blasphemy, or lose their livelihood.

What happens next?

Who knows, but the ball is still rolling.

My guess is that in England, the government is going to force Church of England priests to officiate at same-sex weddings, or lose their jobs.

And the next step after that will be when American military chaplains are given that same choice.

The world is not big enough for the Christian faith and the modern aggressive homosexual agenda to exist side-by-side.

We already have acceptance. We don't need it from you.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 06:36 PM
We already have acceptance. We don't need it from you.
You didn't address anything I said.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 06:37 PM
I can and will challenge bigoted statements about LGBT whether you like or not.

Challenge them all you want. That's your right. But that right ends when you start projecting your hatefulness onto other people and trying to tell them what they think.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:37 PM
You didn't address anything I said.

Why should I address your bigoted remarks?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:38 PM
Challenge them all you want. That's your right. But that right ends when you start projecting your hatefulness onto other people and trying to tell them what they think.

All I do is read the bigoted remarks in a post and respond to them. The only way I can tell how someone thinks on a forum is to read their posts. Some people are delighted that gay and lesbian couples are able to legally marry. Others, like a few who post here hate it that we can marry and command some measure of equal regard for our persons and our families.

Dr. Who
11-27-2013, 06:41 PM
Bull... all you've done this entire thread is accuse @Blackrook (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=899) and anyone that disagrees with you as being bigoted. you've gone so far as to accuse the entire forum as being anti-gay. the fact of the matter is a lesbian woman accused a couple of an anti-gay act in order to cause a stir and make money (she has been receiving thousands of dollars in "donations). She has been caught lying and your trying to deflect and make it all about her being gay and not about her using her homosexuality to lie and make a buck.To be fair she has donated the money to charity.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:42 PM
To be fair she has donated the money to charity.

Oh, that horrible dyke.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 06:43 PM
To be fair she has donated the money to charity.
She says that she donated it to the Wounded Warriors Project. Which should return it back to her. It was money derived by dishonorable means.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 06:45 PM
All I do is read the bigoted remarks in a post and respond to them. The only way I can tell how someone thinks on a forum is to read their posts.
No, not really, Sky. What you are doing is ASSUMING you know what they are thinking and going to the furthest extremes you can in order to put them in as bad a light as you can. YOU are the type of homosexual that gives the rest of the homosexuals a bad image. You took a simple thread that was about a woman using her homosexuality to scam a buck and turned it into your personal "love homosexuality or you're a bigot" thread. Sorry lady, it doesn't work that way. If you want a thread discussing your phobias, then start a new one. If you want to go somewhere where homosexuals are loved and fawned over, go to a gay site or a lefty site. You're here. You'll be accepted as a member but don't expert to walk in here calling people bigots and not get flack for it. Don't like it? see-ya...

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:45 PM
She says that she donated it to the Wounded Warriors Project. Which should return it back to her. It was money derived by dishonorable means.

What would you like to do to this woman who has already "dishonored" herself, veterans and all gay and lesbian people?

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 06:45 PM
I can and will challenge bigoted statements about LGBT whether you like or not.
Nothing I have said is based on bigotry. My faith as a Catholic teaches that homosexual acts are a sin, and that same-sex marriage is a mockery of a sacrament.

Even if you convince the entire world that same-sex marriage is wonderful, you will always have the opposition of the Catholic Church.

And we Catholics have lots of experience being the lone voice of reason in a world gone insane. My name saint, St. Thomas More, died a martyr's death rather than take an oath that King Henry VIII was the head of the English Church.

Even now, the radical homosexual rights movement is making new martyrs, like the Christian florist driven out of business because she would not participate in a same-sex wedding. And it's only going to escalate, and more people will lose their businesses, their careers, and their reputations over this issue. This is the dark future of tyranny and oppression you are helping create, I hope you understand your role in this.

patrickt
11-27-2013, 06:47 PM
What would you like to do to this woman?

Me? Nothing. She has totally humiliated herself. Very few people will appreciate what she did.

Dr. Who
11-27-2013, 06:48 PM
I'm going to say this. Even if this waitress' story was true, it was wrong for her to put a receipt signed by a private citizen on the internet and expose her to public condemnation. This was a private dispute between a waitress and a customer. The restaurant should have fired this waitress immediately and they made a big mistake in supporting her. People will now avoid this restaurant like the plague, for fear that the same thing will happen to them. I predict this restaurant will soon be out of business.There was nothing on the receipt that would have identified the customer(s) to the public. It was the customers who identified themselves.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:49 PM
Nothing I have said is based on bigotry. My faith as a Catholic teaches that homosexual acts are a sin, and that same-sex marriage is a mockery of a sacrament.

Even if you convince the entire world that same-sex marriage is wonderful, you will always have the opposition of the Catholic Church.

And we Catholics have lots of experience being the lone voice of reason in a world gone insane. My name saint, St. Thomas More, died a martyr's death rather than take an oath that King Henry VIII was the head of the English Church.

Even now, the radical homosexual rights movement is making new martyrs, like the Christian florist driven out of business because she would not participate in a same-sex wedding. And it's only going to escalate, and more people will lose their businesses, their careers, and their reputations over this issue. This is the dark future of tyranny and oppression you are helping create, I hope you understand your role in this.
I don't care if you and ALL Catholics oppose same sex marriage. Plenty of individual Catholics I know are happy for me and my wife. The bigoted ones hope we suffer and feel badly about ourselves. You would like to wipe up off the face of the earth.

Too bad you aren't willing to look at other religious points of view. IMO, you aren't happy unless gay people suffer. It is YOU who wish to oppress me and all LGBT who don't know our place.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 06:51 PM
What would you like to do to this woman who has already "dishonored" herself, veterans and all gay and lesbian people?
I would send her back to boot camp. At least as long as it takes until she knows what Semper Fidelis means.
As it stands, she did engage in slander, theft by deception and wire fraud. All of which are punishable by law.

Agravan
11-27-2013, 06:51 PM
There was nothing on the receipt that would have identified the customer(s) to the public. It was the customers who identified themselves.
Because it was a lie.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:52 PM
Me? Nothing. She has totally humiliated herself. Very few people will appreciate what she did.

I find her actions sad. I find the bigoted reaction to her actions equally sad.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 06:52 PM
There was nothing on the receipt that would have identified the customer(s) to the public. It was the customers who identified themselves.
Right. Except for the signature?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 06:53 PM
I would send her back to boot camp. At least as long as it takes until she knows what Semper Fidelis means. As it stands, she did engage in slander, theft by deception and wire fraud. All of which are punishable by law. I see. You would force her to re-enlist and hope that she suffers. You want her punished. Gotcha.

No due process, just punishment. What punishment is good enough for you? LWOP or the death penalty. (sarcasm alert)

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 06:57 PM
I see. You would force her to re-enlist and hope that she suffers. You want her punished. Gotcha.
Do you think she should walk away scott free?

No due process, just punishment. What punishment is good enough for you? LWOP or the death penalty. (sarcasm alert)
Is your strawman gay too?

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 06:59 PM
I don't care if you and ALL Catholics oppose same sex marriage. Plenty of individual Catholics I know are happy for me and my wife. The bigoted ones hope we suffer and feel badly about ourselves. You would like to wipe up off the face of the earth.

Too bad you aren't willing to look at other religious points of view. IMO, you aren't happy unless gay people suffer. It is YOU who wish to oppress me and all LGBT who don't know our place.
OK, well I don't want to wipe you "off the face of the earth" so that is a lie. It's not a good idea to lie during a debate because then people don't believe anything you say after that. Also, you continue to call me a bigot, which is unjustified. Am I calling you nasty names? No, I am not, and you should treat me with the same respect I am treating you.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:00 PM
Do you think she should walk away scott free?

Is your strawman gay too?

Sarcasm alert. You ignored that.

I asked you how you think she ought to be punished. She has already humiliated herself and alienated the people who sent her money. How much suffering is enough for you?

Dr. Who
11-27-2013, 07:00 PM
She says that she donated it to the Wounded Warriors Project. Which should return it back to her. It was money derived by dishonorable means.
Since this is not the subject of a criminal investigation, you cannot assume guilt. Not all wait staff process their own transactions. In addition, any bill can be reprinted by anyone who has the authority to do so. Many restaurants require tip sharing, so any one of the wait staff may have been unhappy about the lack of a tip and changed the bill. That same person might have had an issue with the waitress and wrote the unfortunate message to make her feel badly. I have seen many wait persons take a bill to the cash without even looking at it, and another person processes the transaction.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:01 PM
The woman will probably be prosecuted for collecting money under frauduent pretenses, and she used interstate communications to do it, so it's a federal crime, which means she will do federal time.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:02 PM
OK, well I don't want to wipe you "off the face of the earth" so that is a lie. It's not a good idea to lie during a debate because then people don't believe anything you say after that. Also, you continue to call me a bigot, which is unjustified. Am I calling you nasty names? No, I am not, and you should treat me with the same respect I am treating you.

You want to eliminate homosexuality. You want it wiped off the face of the earth.

You forget that it's real people, good people, like me and my wife who do you no personal harm by our existence. You don't treat me with any respect at all. You act like same sex relationships are worse than murder.

You have no perspective at all. NONE.

Not all Catholics, thank God, are as rigid and rejecting as you are.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:03 PM
Since this is not the subject of a criminal investigation, you cannot assume guilt. Not all wait staff process their own transactions. In addition, any bill can be reprinted by anyone who has the authority to do so. Many restaurants require tip sharing, so any one of the wait staff may have been unhappy about the lack of a tip and changed the bill. That same person might have had an issue with the waitress and wrote the unfortunate message to make her feel badly. I have seen many wait persons take a bill to the cash without even looking at it, and another person processes the transaction.
So, that's your crazy theory why this lesbian isn't guilty of what she obviously did?

Remind me not to hire you as my defense counsel if I am ever accused of a crime.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:03 PM
Sarcasm alert. You ignored that.

I asked you how you think she ought to be punished. She has already humiliated herself and alienated the people who sent her money. How much suffering is enough for you?
She has yet to acknowledge responsibility and show even the slightest remorse.
Furthermore, she has done irreparable damage to her employer's business. Which will effect everyone else that works there.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:03 PM
The woman will probably be prosecuted for collecting money under frauduent pretenses, and she used interstate communications to do it, so it's a federal crime, which means she will do federal time.

OMG you crack me up. You're making this a FEDERAL CRIME. It just goes to show how strong your aversion for gay people is. You wish we'd do prison time.

Dr. Who
11-27-2013, 07:04 PM
Right. Except for the signature?
Where do you see a signature?
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ZrkSxa0aV2ryIydIb7lKkA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI1MA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-11-26/59546ee2-1bfc-4c29-a1fb-261fa26aaa33_tip.jpg

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:04 PM
She has yet to acknowledge responsibility and show even the slightest remorse.
Furthermore, she has done irreparable damage to her employer's business. Which will effect everyone else that works there.

What is enough punishment for you? A prison sentence?

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:07 PM
Since this is not the subject of a criminal investigation, you cannot assume guilt. Not all wait staff process their own transactions. In addition, any bill can be reprinted by anyone who has the authority to do so. Many restaurants require tip sharing, so any one of the wait staff may have been unhappy about the lack of a tip and changed the bill. That same person might have had an issue with the waitress and wrote the unfortunate message to make her feel badly. I have seen many wait persons take a bill to the cash without even looking at it, and another person processes the transaction.
She got a hold of the receipt and posted it on facebook slandering the family in question. SHE is at least responsible for that.
But, unless she can prove that she didn't write that message herself, SHE will be held accountable for that as well.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:07 PM
You want to eliminate homosexuality. You want it wiped off the face of the earth.

You forget that it's real people, good people, like me and my wife who do you no personal harm by our existence. You don't treat me with any respect at all. You act like same sex relationships are worse than murder.

You have no perspective at all. NONE.

Not all Catholics, thank God, are as rigid and rejecting as you are.
OK, now you're lying again. I never said I wanted to wipe homosexuality off the Earth.

so now I know you are a person who thinks lying is a way to get what she wants.

Whenever my kids got in trouble, I told them that if they lied to me, they would get in a lot more trouble than if they just told me the truth about what they did.

The fact that you are a lesbian is not the problem I have with you, it's the fact that you are a liar.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:07 PM
So, that's your crazy theory why this lesbian isn't guilty of what she obviously did?

Remind me not to hire you as my defense counsel if I am ever accused of a crime.

There is no crime committed. Even if it turns out the waitress lied, lying by itself isn't a crime. Yet, your aversion is so strong you want her punished. What if the waitress had been wearing a cross and she claimed to have been stiffed by a customer because she is Christian? What if it's possible she lied. Should the waitress be charged with a crime? If so, what crime.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:08 PM
OK, now you're lying again. I never said I wanted to wipe homosexuality off the Earth.

so now I know you are a person who thinks lying is a way to get what she wants.

Whenever my kids got in trouble, I told them that if they lied to me, they would get in a lot more trouble than if they just told me the truth about what they did.

The fact that you are a lesbian is not the problem I have with you, it's the fact that you are a liar.

Do you or do you not want the "sin" of homosexuality wiped off the face or the earth? Honest question.

Why is homosexuality a worse sin to you than murder?

The problem you have with me is I've shown you your own bigoted remarks and you don't like it.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:09 PM
She has yet to acknowledge responsibility and show even the slightest remorse.
Furthermore, she has done irreparable damage to her employer's business. Which will effect everyone else that works there.
The employer did it to themselves when they backed up her play instead of firing her immediately.

They forgot that fundamental rule of business: "The customer is always right."

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:09 PM
What is enough punishment for you? A prison sentence?
If that is what the law calls for. She certainly shouldn't be allowed to just walk away from her actions.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:09 PM
If that is what the law calls for. She certainly shouldn't be allowed to just walk away from her actions.

Lying isn't a crime.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:12 PM
Where do you see a signature?
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ZrkSxa0aV2ryIydIb7lKkA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI1MA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-11-26/59546ee2-1bfc-4c29-a1fb-261fa26aaa33_tip.jpg
On the uncropped part.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=453425841430201&set=a.192270474212407.34793.192269477545840&type=1

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:14 PM
There is no crime committed. Even if it turns out the waitress lied, lying by itself isn't a crime. Yet, your aversion is so strong you want her punished. What if the waitress had been wearing a cross and she claimed to have been stiffed by a customer because she is Christian? What if it's possible she lied. Should the waitress be charged with a crime? If so, what crime.
She set up a charity to collect donations from people who sympathized with her for not getting a tip, and promised to donate the money to Wounded Warriors.http://www.nj.com/somerset/index.ssf/2013/11/bridgewater_restaurant_investigating_anti-gay_receipt_hoax_manager_says.html

The crime she committed is wire fraud, which is a federal felony punishable by up to 20 years in federal prison:

18 USC § 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio, or television

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a presidentially declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42) U.S.C. 5122 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/5122))), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:14 PM
On the uncropped part.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=453425841430201&set=a.192270474212407.34793.192269477545840&type=1

Uncropped part isn't showing. No one has proved that the handwriting on the receipt belongs to Danya Morales. But you're ready to convict her of the "crime". What crime I don't know.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:15 PM
She set up a charity to collect donations from people who sympathized with her for not getting a tip, and promised to donate the money to Wounded Warriors.http://www.nj.com/somerset/index.ssf/2013/11/bridgewater_restaurant_investigating_anti-gay_receipt_hoax_manager_says.html

The crime she committed is wire fraud, which is a federal felony:
18 USC § 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio, or television



If she has committed fraud then she will face those consequences. What gets me is you've already convicted her and she hasn't been charged with anything.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:17 PM
Do you or do you not want the "sin" of homosexuality wiped off the face or the earth? Honest question.

Why is homosexuality a worse sin to you than murder?

The problem you have with me is I've shown you your own bigoted remarks and you don't like it.
It is not possible to wipe any sin off the face of the Earth, so long as the human race survives.

Are you accusing me of wanting to commit genocide against homosexuals?

Your lies are getting bigger and bigger.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:17 PM
Lying isn't a crime.
Defamation is.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:19 PM
It is not possible to wipe any sin off the face of the Earth, so long as the human race survives.

Are you accusing me of wanting to commit genocide against homosexuals?

Your lies are getting bigger and bigger.

If you could wipe homosexuality off the face of the earth would you? Why is homosexuality such a more serious sin to you than other sins?

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:19 PM
If she has committed fraud then she will face those consequences. What gets me is you've already convicted her and she hasn't been charged with anything.
Right. But I am entitled to judge based on the facts so far, and she has no alibi.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:20 PM
If she has committed fraud then she will face those consequences. What gets me is you've already convicted her and she hasn't been charged with anything.
You have already absolved her of any wrong doing just because she's gay.
Don't act like you didn't.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:22 PM
Uncropped part isn't showing.
You have to actually click on the link to see the picture that she posted to her account.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:22 PM
If you could wipe homosexuality off the face of the earth would you? Why is homosexuality such a more serious sin to you than other sins?
Homosexuality is not even close to the worst sin. Adultery is far more serious, because it is a breach of the marriage sacrament, which elevates it to a much more serious sin than other sexual sins.

The difference is, the adulterers have not organized politically to demand "equal rights." Adulterers are not flooding TV shows and movies with pro-adultery messages. Adulterers are not recruiting young people into their lifestyle. Adulterers are not demanding we change our marriage laws to suit adulterers.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:23 PM
You have already absolved her of any wrong doing just because she's gay.
Don't act like you didn't.

I haven't absolved her because I have nothing to do with her. I don't know that she's lying but you all act as though she's committed a crime and should be convicted of it. Someone is lying and you think it's the waitress. You may be right.

If she collected monies fraudulently then she should face consequences. That doesn't give you or anyone else the right to dis lesbians and gays for just existing.

Green Arrow
11-27-2013, 07:23 PM
It's an escalation.

First homosexuals wanted their sexual acts to be legal. So the laws against sodomy were repealed, or overturned by the courts. Fair enough.

Then they wanted tolerance. Fair enough.

Then they wanted acceptance. Now, there's a problem.

Christians cannot accept the homosexual lifestyle without abandoning basic tenets of the Christian faith.

And things get worse. A woman who owned a flower shop was driven out of business because she did not want to sell flowers to a same-sex wedding ceremony.

So now, Christians are being FORCED by the law to participate in same-sex marriage, which is a blasphemy, or lose their livelihood.

What happens next?

Who knows, but the ball is still rolling.

My guess is that in England, the government is going to force Church of England priests to officiate at same-sex weddings, or lose their jobs.

And the next step after that will be when American military chaplains are given that same choice.

The world is not big enough for the Christian faith and the modern aggressive homosexual agenda to exist side-by-side.

Who wants acceptance? I don't care if you accept it. I don't even care if you tolerate it. I would just like it if you'd acknowledge that it's none of your business and leave me the hell alone.

Speaking generally, not you specifically, of course.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:24 PM
The identity of this couple who was wrongly accused will eventually come out, and then they will get death threats and harassing phone calls from the crazy people.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:24 PM
Homosexuality is not even close to the worst sin. Adultery is far more serious, because it is a breach of the marriage sacrament, which elevates it to a much more serious sin than other sexual sins.

The difference is, the adulterers have not organized politically to demand "equal rights." Adulterers are not flooding TV shows and movies with pro-adultery messages. Adulterers are not recruiting young people into their lifestyle. Adulterers are not demanding we change our marriage laws to suit adulterers.

Well, you lost bud. SCOTUS decided in our favor. Live with it.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:24 PM
The identity of this couple who was wrongly accused will eventually come out, and then they will get death threats and harassing phone calls from the crazy people.

You wish they would get death threats because that fits your Christianity/martyr complex. Dayna Morales says one thing, the anonymous family says another. Who do we believe?

I don't know what to believe, other than it's no excuse to start bashing gay and lesbian citizens for the actions of ONE.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:27 PM
Who wants acceptance? I don't care if you accept it. I don't even care if you tolerate it. I would just like it if you'd acknowledge that it's none of your business and leave me the hell alone.

Speaking generally, not you specifically, of course.
And that's what I want to do. If homosexuals keep their business to themselves, I have no problem with that. What I object to is scandal, which is a sin that is worse than any sexual sin. Scandal is when people openly display their immorality and children see it and emulate it. Jesus had special words of condemnation for people who engage in the sin of scandal.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:28 PM
And that's what I want to do. If homosexuals keep their business to themselves, I have no problem with that. What I object to is scandal, which is a sin that is worse than any sexual sin. Scandal is when people openly display their immorality and children see it and emulate it. Jesus had special words of condemnation for people who engage in the sin of scandal.

Well, my dear. I know this will really get to you. My wife and I are foster parents for three children, aged 5, 10 and 14. I'm sure you'll really hate that.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:29 PM
You wish they would get death threats because that fits your Christianity/martyr complex.
And once again you tell a lie about me. I do not wish that anyone get death threats, but I know this will happen. I expect the lesbian waitress will also get death threats, because there's crazy people on both sides of any issue.

Green Arrow
11-27-2013, 07:29 PM
And that's what I want to do. If homosexuals keep their business to themselves, I have no problem with that. What I object to is scandal, which is a sin that is worse than any sexual sin. Scandal is when people openly display their immorality and children see it and emulate it. Jesus had special words of condemnation for people who engage in the sin of scandal.

Well, then, you and I should have no issues.

Dr. Who
11-27-2013, 07:29 PM
On the uncropped part.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=453425841430201&set=a.192270474212407.34793.192269477545840&type=1

Can you read that siggy? It looks like Ber or Bei to me.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:30 PM
Well, then, you and I should have no issues.

Good boy.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:30 PM
And once again you tell a lie about me. I do not wish that anyone get death threats, but I know this will happen. I expect the lesbian waitress will also get death threats, because there's crazy people on both sides of any issue.

I think nothing like that will happen at all.

Green Arrow
11-27-2013, 07:32 PM
Good boy.

Pardon?

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:33 PM
Well, my dear. I know this will really get to you. My wife and I are foster parents for three children, aged 5, 10 and 14.
The studies have already concluded that children of same-sex couples have a drastically reduced change of finishing high school:


Another downside for children of same-sex couples


By Dennis Byrne, October 8, 2013 at 7:16 am

Now comes new evidence in the deeply emotional debate over the impact on children of same-sex marriage versus traditional marriage.

The mere mention os this research will raise hackles among those who insist that children of same sex couples grow up no different than children of men and women unions. But if we can get past the name-calling and actually read the research, maybe we could have a rational discourse.

The new study, by Douglas W. Allen (http://link.springer.com/search?facet-author=%22Douglas+W.+Allen%22) published in the journal Review of the Economics of the Household, concludes from an analysis of a large, population-based sample that children of gay and lesbian couples are less likely to have graduated from high school.

This is from the study's abstract (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11150-013-9220-y#page-1):


Almost all studies of same-sex parenting have concluded there is “no difference” in a range of outcome measures for children who live in a household with same-sex parents compared to children living with married opposite-sex parents. Recently, some work based on the US census has suggested otherwise, but those studies have considerable drawbacks. Here, a 20 % sample of the 2006 Canada census is used to identify self-reported children living with same-sex parents, and to examine the association of household type with children’s high school graduation rates. This large random sample allows for control of parental marital status, distinguishes between gay and lesbian families, and is large enough to evaluate differences in gender between parents and children. Children living with gay and lesbian families in 2006 were about 65 % as likely to graduate compared to children living in opposite sex marriage families. Daughters of same-sex parents do considerably worse than sons.


Of particular note, the study finds that the disadvantage falls heavier on girls than on boys:


...the particular gender mix of a same-sex household has a dramatic difference in the association with child graduation. Consider the case of girls. . . . Regardless of the controls and whether or not girls are currently living in a gay or lesbian household, the odds of graduating from high school are considerably lower than any other household type. Indeed, girls living in gay households are only 15 percent as likely to graduate compared to girls from opposite sex married homes.


On a broader scale, the "Children from Different Families" argues (http://www.familystructurestudies.com/summary) that the evidence of the better outcomes for children biological, different-sex couples is adding up:


The widely circulated claim that same-sex families are “no different” from intact, heterosexual families is not settled science. New studies suggest that children do best when they are raised by their biological parents in a stable, intact marriage.


Mark Regnerus (http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/author/mark-regnerus/), whose earlier study has on the matter has proven extremely controversial, calls (http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/10/10996/) the new study "a new and significant piece of evidence in the social science debate about gay parenting and the unique contributions that mothers and fathers make to their children’s flourishing."

This is hardly the last word on the subject, something that both sides in the debate must keep in mind.


http://www.chicagonow.com/dennis-byrnes-barbershop/2013/10/another-downside-for-children-of-same-sex-couples/

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:34 PM
Pardon?

Be sure and not openly display your immorality. Have a good time in the closet.

Green Arrow
11-27-2013, 07:35 PM
Be sure and not openly display your immorality. Have a good time in the closet.

Why would I be openly displaying it anyway? Outside of a hug or holding hands, what am I going to do in public?

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:35 PM
The studies have already concluded that children of same-sex couples have a drastically reduced change of finishing high school:

http://www.chicagonow.com/dennis-byrnes-barbershop/2013/10/another-downside-for-children-of-same-sex-couples/

You really have a jones for gay people. There are studies that show that lesbians couples make some of the very best foster parents.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:36 PM
I haven't absolved her because I have nothing to do with her.
Then, why are you here defending her?

Here's your little hero:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20131126/NEWS/311260034/


But Morales has been caught in multiple lies, telling co-workers she shaved her head because she had brain cancer and later telling them it was her friend who had brain cancer, her colleagues and friends said.


They said she also told co-workers at a day care center where she once worked that Superstorm Sandy severely damaged her home in Stony Point, and sent a boat into her living room. Concerned co-workers dropped by her home and found only minor damage to the carpet by her front door and no sign of a boat, they said.


Morales told people she was a former Marine who was sent to Afghanistan and that everyone in her platoon died in an explosion except her, Larkin and Howat said.
The explosion left her with back injuries that required surgery and a couple of months to recover, Larkin said Morales told her employer. But during her time off, Morales posted photos of herself on Facebook enjoying a trip to Florida with a girlfriend, they said.



A spokesman for the Marines, Major Shawn Haney, said in an email that Morales had served in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve from July 13, 2009, to May 21, 2013 at the rank of Lance Corporal, E-3, as an administrative specialist. She was assigned to the Marine Air Group 49, 4th Marine Air Wing out of Newburgh and deployed from April to June 2012 to Romania as part of the Black Sea Rotational Force 11.
“There is no indication of combat service in Iraq or Afghanistan,” he added in a follow-up email. Also, “While (Morales) did not fulfill her reserve obligation, per the Privacy Act, administrative actions are not releasable. The same applies to character of service and type of discharge.”

But, don't let that stop you. Please, keep defending her.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:36 PM
Why would I be openly displaying it anyway? Outside of a hug or holding hands, what am I going to do in public?

For him, just BEING openly gay is "displaying immorality and negatively influencing children".

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:37 PM
The signature is now public information so it won't be long before someone tracks down this unfortunate couple and "outs" them as the "homophobes" they are.

Then all the crazies will come out and drive them out of their normal lives and they will have to go into hiding.

Even if the waitress was telling the truth, what she did to this couple is EVIL.

keymanjim
11-27-2013, 07:37 PM
Can you read that siggy? It looks like Ber or Bei to me.
It looks like a credit card receipt that she had no business posting on the internet to me.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:37 PM
Then, why are you here defending her?

Here's your little hero:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20131126/NEWS/311260034/









But, don't let that stop you. Please, keep defending her.

I'm not defending her, I'm just not indicting her and presuming she's guilty. Everyone deserves a fair shake. Even queers.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 07:39 PM
OK, so this lady didn't get an honorable discharge, which means she really fucked up as a Marine.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:40 PM
The signature is now public information so it won't be long before someone tracks down this unfortunate couple and "outs" them as the "homophobes" they are.

Then all the crazies will come out and drive them out of their normal lives and they will have to go into hiding.

Even if the waitress was telling the truth, what she did to this couple is EVIL.

Even if the waitress is telling the truth she's still evil. Got it. My point exactly. You're just using this thread to indict ALL gay and lesbians who aren't in the closet.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 07:42 PM
OK, so this lady didn't get an honorable discharge, which means she really fucked up as a Marine.

Yet, her main crime is that she exists as an openly lesbian waitress with a masculine haircut and that some people believed her enough to send her money.