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Mister D
02-15-2012, 01:57 PM
Spot on. KI would only add that "democratic cultures" are not inherently better.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/291094/arab-me-lee-habeeb


Why the anger when I hint that America and Israel might have something to teach the Arab world? I thought about it for the longest time, and only recently stumbled upon the answer.
It is all about Arab self-doubt. It is all tied to a profound lack of cultural self-confidence, and a deep-seated fear that maybe, just maybe, Arabs won’t be very good at the self-governance thing. That Arab nations won’t be capable of building democratic cultures that engender the flourishing of human freedom, and that these nations won’t have the ability to tap the God-given talents of their people the way Americans and Israelis do.
That maybe, just maybe, the Arab world will never measure up to America or Israel.

MMC
02-15-2012, 02:07 PM
Interesting.....still they now know they can achieve their means thru Democracy and Law. Despite how they plan to use them.

Mister D
02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
I've thought for a long while ow that this is a deeply rooted psychological prolem on the opart of Arabs. I think this is a partly the rwsult of an inferiority complex.

MMC
02-15-2012, 02:20 PM
I've thought for a long while ow that this is a deeply rooted psychological prolem on the opart of Arabs. I think this is a partly the rwsult of an inferiority complex.


Here I thought it was worrying another would come like Kublai Khan and before him Timajin. :wink:

Conley
02-15-2012, 02:30 PM
There are some similarities with Arab nations and China in the area of a perceived lack of respect, at least in my mind. It's an odd phenomenon.

MMC
02-15-2012, 02:39 PM
I think the Arabs cannot even be compared to the Chinese. Whereas the Chinese's lack of respect is purposeful and used with tactics and strategy. IMO not so much with the Arabs. With them it is strictly sheer ignorance.....their own!

Conley
02-15-2012, 02:42 PM
I think the Arabs cannot even be compared to the Chinese. Whereas the Chinese's lack of respect is purposeful and used with tactics and strategy. IMO not so much with the Arabs. With them it is strictly sheer ignorance.....their own!

I just mean that I think such actions are very counterproductive on the world stage. They take offense at such minor things when they would be better served to just focus on the big picture. It may be part of the Chinese strategy but their self-imposed isolation has held them back IMO. Perhaps it will change with the next generation.

MMC
02-15-2012, 03:02 PM
I just mean that I think such actions are very counterproductive on the world stage. They take offense at such minor things when they would be better served to just focus on the big picture. It may be part of the Chinese strategy but their self-imposed isolation has held them back IMO. Perhaps it will change with the next generation.

Once they wake up again and dump that BS Communism all the way round they will be alright.....they already see it, only could take them so far. Plus they at least have other markets open to them. What other markets does the Arabs have open to them besides Tourism?

Mister D
02-15-2012, 03:17 PM
Once they wake up again and dump that BS Communism all the way round they will be alright.....they already see it, only could take them so far. Plus they at least have other markets open to them. What other markets does the Arabs have open to them besides Tourism?


That's the major problem with a state that relies too heavily on oil exports. It retards the development of other industries.

MMC
02-15-2012, 03:30 PM
Should have taught them how to grow some food....huh?

Conley
02-15-2012, 05:49 PM
We've touched on this in the economics thread. In the old days I agree that natural resources played a big part and granted they still do in terms of a country's prosperity. That said, with enough freedom you can still establish a lot. Look at the economies of Hong Kong (before returning to China), South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc. Now obviously those are all Asian countries but the point remains it is possible if you adopt the right policies.

MMC
02-15-2012, 06:34 PM
The Hong Kong Stock Exchange (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Hong_Kong_Stock_Exchange) is the seventh largest in the world, with a market capitalisation of US$2.3 trillion as of December 2009.[135] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-139) In that year, Hong Kong raised 22 percent of worldwide initial public offering (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Initial_public_offering) (IPO) capital, making it the largest centre of IPOs in the world [136] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-140) and the easiest place to raise capital.[137] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-thomaswhite1-141) Hong Kong's currency is the Hong Kong dollar (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Hong_Kong_dollar), which has been pegged (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Currency_board) to the U.S. dollar since 1983.

As of 2010, Hong Kong is the eighth most expensive city for expatriates (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_emplo yees), falling from fifth position in the previous year.[147] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-151) In 2011, Hong Kong was ranked second in the Ease of Doing Business Index (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ease_of_Doing_Business_Index), behind Singapore.[148] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-152) General principle No. 5 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Basic_Law_of_Hong_Kong#General_principles) of the Basic Law of the SAR suggests that the CPC (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China) expects that it shall have brought the economic system (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Economic_system) of the Mainland (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Socialism) and Hong Kong (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Capitalism) into harmony (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Harmonious_Society) by 2047, by which time the Chinese economy is predicted to have been the largest by any measure of GDP for decades.....snip~

Now you know why China isn't listening to much to other Economists in the West. Who by the way do know this and that it will now be before 2047. More like 2027.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong

Conley
02-15-2012, 06:41 PM
Yes, but I would say HK's success (and RollingWave can probably correct/add to this) was there before China ever took over and has continued because China has left them to operate like they used to, plus realizing that communism has its own limitations.

MMC
02-15-2012, 06:51 PM
Ever read about the Tai-Pans of Hong Kong? Althought the Portuguese and Dutch were there first.

Mister D
02-15-2012, 06:56 PM
There are a billion people in China. I would think even modest economic development will raise the Chinese economy above others in terms of sheer size, no?

Conley
02-15-2012, 06:57 PM
Ever read about the Tai-Pans of Hong Kong? Althought the Portuguese and Dutch were there first.

No, I haven't read about them. I should read more about the history.

MMC
02-15-2012, 07:52 PM
Plus wasnt the West Dutch Indies really running things over there in pre Colonial times. Despite what the English Crown Stated?

Mister D
02-15-2012, 07:57 PM
I don't think the Dutch ever exerted much political power in the region. They just dominated trade with the west and the Americas.

MMC
02-15-2012, 08:09 PM
I don't think the Dutch ever exerted much political power in the region. They just dominated trade with the west and the Americas.

Yeah but wasnt it their Tai-Pans that Hong Kong lock stock and barrel.