Quran Burning at US Base Sparks Afghan Protests.....

[MMC]

Troops on the U.S.' largest base in Afghanistan have inadvertently burned Qurans and other religious materials, triggering angry protests and fears of even larger demonstrations as news of the burning spreads.
The books were mistakenly thrown out with the trash at Bagram Air Field north of Kabul and were on a burn pile Monday night before Afghan laborers intervened around 11:00 p.m., according to NATO and Afghan officials.

The workers doused the flames with their jackets and mineral water before marching out of Bagram in a fury, carrying with them the charred remains, according to Sabir Safar, secretary of the provincial council of Parwan, the province where Bagram is located.
By the morning, hundreds of demonstrators gathered outside of Bagram and on the outskirts of Kabul. Some shot into the air, some threw rocks at the Bagram gate, and others yelled, "Die, die foreigners." Many of them were the same people who work with foreign troops inside the base. At one point, apparently worried that the base would be stormed, guards at the base fired rubber bullets into the crowd, according to the military.

There is perhaps no action that enrages Afghans more than foreigners' mistreating the Quran. It taps into widespread doubt of whether Americans respect Islam as well as deep frustration that, more than 10 years after the Taliban were overthrown, violence remains widespread. Qurans are supposed to be buried or released into a flowing river if they need to be disposed.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/quran-burning-u-sparks-afghan-protests-132458731--abc-news.html

[Mister D]

Why would such materials be on the base? Anyway, if it was inadvertent it's hard for me to fault the base personnel for the reaction. As the news of the burnings spread...:rollseyes:

[Conley]

I was just starting to post this news too.

Everyone makes mistakes but burning Qurans is a bad one. Not much the guys can say other than it was an accident and they're sorry.

[Conley]

Why would such materials be on the base? Anyway, if it was inadvertent it's hard for me to fault the base personnel for the reaction. As the news of the burnings spread...:rollseyes:

I wonder that too. Maybe recruitment stuff?

We get a lot of pamphlets on our doors from religious folk (Mormons, Jehovah, other local churches) - no texts - and I recycle it.

[Mister D]

Are there protests when blood and body parts are blasted all over the street or when people are burned if terrorist attacks? I'm genuinely curious.

[Mister D]

I wonder that too. Maybe recruitment stuff?

We get a lot of pamphlets on our doors from religious folk (Mormons, Jehovah, other local churches) - no texts - and I recycle it.

Yeah, I figured maybe it was for propaganda purposes. No negative connotations attached.

[MMC]

The piece said the workers that were Afghanis took the damaged books back. My question is when they were working why didnt they stop and say something to somebody at the time. If this book was so precious and sacred. You would think that one would have noticed immediately and then the work would have been halted.

Why wait until the damage is done? But then go and try to create some shit over it.

[Conley]

Hard to tell, if they were burning a lot of refuse it may have been a while before someone noticed. If they had an axe to grind with the U.S. it would make sense. Heck, they could have been the ones who made the mistake. I'm sure it has happened before in other circumstances.

[MMC]

NATO officials scrambled furiously to contain the fallout, tweeting and emailing reporters not long after the first protests began. Gen. John Allen, the commander of all foreign forces in Afghanistan, released a statement, then a video statement, then gave an interview to NATO television. In his and in all NATO officials' communication today, each emphasized that the burning was unintentional.

"Those materials were inadvertently given to troops for disposition and that disposition was to burn the materials. It was not a decision that was made because they were religious materials," Allen told NATO TV. "It was not a decision that was made with respect to the faith of Islam. It was a mistake, it was an error. The moment we found out about it we immediately stopped and we intervened."

Allen launched an investigation and promised to take steps that the same incident would not be repeated.....snip~


We are allegedly in talks with the Taliban to end the War. Think the Afghani people don't know this? We are giving them an office in Qatar. Releasing 5 top Taliban members all to get out of this war. We are basically handing the Taliban, Afghanistan. Lock Stock and Barrel. Yet they want to create more shit over anything? I mean if I was the Taliban I would do all that I could to make sure this transfer of power IS going to take place. That the US leaves and as soon as possible. Not get caught up into something that could lead to delays of that agenda.

Yet this kowtowing to Muslims over the burning of their Holy Book, should be put in perspective on the National Stage too. Showing them(muslims)burning other's Holy Books. As well as Burning down Christian Churches. How they go about doing it.....and what they do after it is done. I mean full tilt media all over the place. I am willing to bet Muslims would have something to seriously think about. If they are nothing but repeat coverage of them killing others over their religion and that they(muslims) just cannot seem to get themselves under control.

Someone needs to tell the Afghanis.....point blank. It's War-Tme! STFU! Did not Ceasar, Alexander, and all those who go to war burn and or destroy precious books and writings. Did not even relgious building get destroyed in a time of a War. Quit with the child like temper tantrums and save that shit for the hovels and caves they live in.

[Conley]

Well, they've always reacted this way. It's nothing new. The Taliban will continue to encourage anti-U.S. feelings no matter what we do, even as we are on our way out of town.

[Mister D]

Yet this kowtowing to Muslims over the burning of their Holy Book, should be put in perspective on the National Stage too. Showing them(muslims)burning other's Holy Books. As well as Burning down Christian Churches. How they go about doing it.....and what they do after it is done. I mean full tilt media all over the place. I am willing to bet Muslims would have something to seriously think about. If they are nothing but repeat coverage of them killing others over their religion and that they(muslims) just cannot seem to get themselves under control.


Right on, MMC. It is outrageous that these people piss and moan over relatively trivial shit like this when flesh and blood members of other religions are in danger in Muslim countries.

[MMC]

Another thing has Anyone ever seen or hear about Moderate Muslims stopping any of the violence directed at Christians or others Religions? Couple of people speaking out and saying.....Hey, don't do that. Just doesn't seem to work now does it?

[Conley]

There was something like that in Canada after the Afghan murdered his family, but generally I don't hear much of that sort of condemnation. I think we all understand the reality of Afghanistan and it's barely the same planet...definitely a different world.

[MMC]

Right on, MMC. It is outrageous that these people piss and moan over relatively trivial shit like this when flesh and blood members of other religions are in danger in Muslim countries.

You got that right D. Plus our own TOP US General bending his azz over to say I am sorry. Not like keep it short and simple. But call the press and show the whole world how you kiss some backwards pukes azz is beyond me.

See Patton would have called that Afghani prick over and then told him a little story about being a Carthagian or Mongol in a previous life. And exactly what he did to those that lived in the lands of what is now called Afghanistan. That they are getting their country back. So STFU! Course all in whispers so that the PRESS WOULDNT PICK THAT SHIT UP!

So Raping Christian or Other Religious women. just how Spiritual is that Shit. What really slays me about these Afghanis is Just that fact about their......... ADOPTED Religion! As in not their own!!!!!

[Mister D]

I don't excuse what happened. It's bad for business, if you know what I mean. It's also offensive but it was a mistake and, like you said, MUCH worse happens throughout the Muslim world.

[MMC]

I don't excuse what happened. It's bad for business, if you know what I mean. It's also offensive but it was a mistake and, like you said, MUCH worse happens throughout the Muslim world.

Especially in WAR. I mean the country is ravaged, people are killed. They should be happy that we live in more of a Civilized World. They know the past. Rape, Pillage, and Plunder. Oh, and KILL! They cannot deny it!

[Peter1469]

During lunch I saw the story on CNN. That report said that the Korans were found in a detention facility and had extremist messages added to them.

[Mister D]

During lunch I saw the story on CNN. That report said that the Korans were found in a detention facility and had extremist messages added to them.


Ah, I see. Interesting. If that is accurate that may change my opinion.

[Peter1469]

It was still dumb getting caught burning them. It sounds like a lazy soldier didn't fully burn the trash.

[Mister D]

Agreed but I feel less like criticizing the troops responsible for that screw up now.

[MMC]

Must just be me.....it's a friggin War Zone. When will Liberals in Charge understand. There are no rules to War. Moreover these Afghani workers were there to do the work and get paid for it. Allowed inside the base. Same guys our people were kicking it with, then turn around and are out there shouting death to the foreigners.

In the days of the Ancient Texts<<<<teCHs...... A Warrior of the inner Circle would have walked down and pulled his sword out. Then removed the Initiators head from his shoulder. End of the Religious Protest right then and there! History always shows us the answer to solve the problem. :wink:

[Mister D]

There are rules in war or at least there are these days. The thing is, the hypocrisy on the part of the Afghans is staggering. Then again, I don't suppose we're dealing with educated people.

[Conley]

There's just no reasoning with them.

[Mister D]

Apparently not. Nor is there much potential for a hearts and minds strategy absent a full scale commitment.

[MMC]

How about the Old Fashioned method.....going to War and getting something out of it. I prefer land myself! Oh, and whatever happens to be in it or under it! :wink:

[Peter1469]

Well, you know that you are in a land of fanatics, one would think that it would logically follow to not go out of your way to piss off the fanatics. Sure burn the Korans. Just finish the job before the locals see half burnt holy books in the trash....

[Conley]

Apparently not. Nor is there much potential for a hearts and minds strategy absent a full scale commitment.

Even then I feel it would be impossible. It's not the kind of thing a military force could change short of killing all the dissenters. There would hardly be anyone left. It wouldn't be so much winning hearts and minds as spreading them all over the countryside. :sad:

[Conley]

Well, you know that you are in a land of fanatics, one would think that it would logically follow to not go out of your way to piss off the fanatics. Sure burn the Korans. Just finish the job before the locals see half burnt holy books in the trash....

True...

[MMC]

Of Course.....a True Liberating Army already has the hearts and mind of the people.

[Alias]

What a pile of crap. They should have said nothing.

[Mister D]

Even then I feel it would be impossible. It's not the kind of thing a military force could change short of killing all the dissenters. There would hardly be anyone left. It wouldn't be so much winning hearts and minds as spreading them all over the countryside. :sad:

It's not merely a military matter. I'm not saying it would be successful but I think it could potentially be with a full scale and long term commitment (military, economic, cultural) by the US or "the West" as the US has come to be known as.

[Conley]

It's not merely a military matter. I'm not saying it would be successful but I think it could potentially be with a full scale and long term commitment (military, economic, cultural) by the US or "the West" as the US has come to be known as.

I see. Well, I don't think the American people would stand for it...many would like us to fix our own nation before trying to fix others. I agree that going into this half-hearted was foolish and shortsighted.

[Mister D]

I see. Well, I don't think the American people would stand for it...many would like us to fix our own nation before trying to fix others. I agree that going into this half-hearted was foolish and shortsighted.

I doubt it too. Those commitments were possible and appropriate after the Second World War, for example, and to a lesser extent perhaps in Vietnam but Afghanistan? Wouldn't it just be easier to invest heavily in alternative fuels sources instead of trying to transform an utterly alien culture?

[MMC]

I doubt it too. Those commitments were possible and appropriate after the Second World War, for example, and to a lesser extent perhaps in Vietnam but Afghanistan? Wouldn't it just be easier to invest heavily in alternative fuels sources instead of trying to transform an utterly alien culture?


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1622633419072&id=4a5bcc5b7c9a4d7217c1724ff076d80e&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sherdog.net%2fforums%2fattach ments%2ff7%2f46166d1292286933-ancient-aliens-giorgio-meme-why-water-clear-aliens-color-blind.jpg

[Conley]

I doubt it too. Those commitments were possible and appropriate after the Second World War, for example, and to a lesser extent perhaps in Vietnam but Afghanistan? Wouldn't it just be easier to invest heavily in alternative fuels sources instead of trying to transform an utterly alien culture?

Oh absolutely. Without a doubt.

[MMC]

This is ridiculous two days of this crap and now an Afghani Parlament Official came out with 20 others. Calling for Jihad against the US and the Troops. All yelling out Death to USA and burning American Flags. Kick them out of their country and burn their bases down. This is the Afghani Government. Their Officials.

Some Journalist described what our people did as Horrorific. Do you belive this shit. Horrorific! Thats what they are saying are troops act was. Thing is this Journalist has seen what was done to Christians in Egypt and she called the killing and burning of a Church, Horrorific! But now this? Burning some books. Holy books in which the Taliban were using to send messages to each other. Anyone bring up the fact to the Afghanis on what they are going to do to those that had already decsecrated their Precious Holy Book by Writing in them???

This is a friggin joke. Did you know that 88% of the Women in Afghanistan cannot read or write? Did you know that over 70% of the males In Afghanistan do not know how to read or write? Plus we have Gen Allen calling these people Noble?

Such a Noble people.....they sell their children. Moreso little girls. They even have a word for it. As it is a tradition. They say it's not suppose to be in practice anymore. Yet it has never stopped. So just how Noble are these people of Afghanistan?

[Mister D]

Horrific? Ugh I hate the western media.

[Alias]

I see Obama apologized also. Sad and pathetic. What a collosal glittering mess we have sitting in the Oval Office.

[Mister D]

Granted, it was boneheaded and it's bad for business like I said but please...

[Alias]

Did Obama apologize to all the Christians in America when bibles were burned? I suggest all Christians get all wee wee'd up the next time someone burns a bible. Not likely to happen, since Christians know how to conduct themselves like adults, and not like crazy savages who saw their face in a photograph for the first time.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-20/world/us.military.bibles.burned_1_bibles-al-jazeera-english-military-personnel?_s=PM:WORLD

[Peter1469]

And people think that Ron Paul's foreign policy is insane. Paul wouldn't have our troops in that barbaric land, certainly not as occupiers.

[Captain Obvious]

What it boils down to is that they hate us and will use any excuse to throw rocks at us. Doesn't matter what we do, don't do, etc.

[Conley]

RP is right, we shouldn't be there as occupiers but even after we leave they will continue to hate us. It won't be a matter of forgive and forget.

[Alias]

The point I'm making is this dumb ass sad excuse of a leader sitting in the White House apologizing for this. Prisoners were using Qurans to transmit messages in jail. Nothing to apologize for.

[MMC]

Also another point is they already damaged their Holy books by Writing in them. Oh, and thats even if they could read the book in the firs place!

[Captain Obvious]

The point I'm making is this dumb ass sad excuse of a leader sitting in the White House apologizing for this. Prisoners were using Qurans to transmit messages in jail. Nothing to apologize for.

Our dear leader has been an apologist for much of his term, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Hell, he's spreading eagle with the Taliban right now. Why anyone would consider reasoning with factions who's sole purpose is to eliminate Western, Christian and Jewish culture from the face of the earth is beyond me but that's what we have now.

[Mister D]

The point I'm making is this dumb ass sad excuse of a leader sitting in the White House apologizing for this. Prisoners were using Qurans to transmit messages in jail. Nothing to apologize for.

Ah, so they were confiscated?

[MMC]

Ah, so they were confiscated?

Yes!

[Mister D]

Still foolish to let that get out but screw the Afghans.

[Peter1469]

More on the circumstances around the burning of the books. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/291925/why-apologize-afghanistan-andrew-c-mccarthy

The facts are that the Korans were seized at a jail because jihadists imprisoned there were using them not for prayer but to communicate incendiary messages. The soldiers dispatched to burn refuse from the jail were not the officials who had seized the books, had no idea they were burning Korans, and tried desperately to retrieve the books when the situation was brought to their attention.

[Conley]

Isn't it against their religion to write on / deface the Koran?

[MMC]

Isn't it against their religion to write on / deface the Koran?

Thats if they can write.....but yes. So like I had pointed out. They were already desecrating their own Holy Book. According to last reports over 25 have been killed over these protests.

In one sense Obama could have issued an Apology to Karzai. He did not need to go global with the Apology. nor Did our Top General have to make an Apology. SOS Clinton should have been there to issue a Statement. do her fricken job instead of worrying about Syria and helping her Sunni pals out. She could have stood up there with the general in Afghanistan and made such an Apology.

This way Panetta and Gen Allen could remind Karzai of the facts and tell him to tone it down and get his people in check.

[Alias]

We're being played and the dumb ass in the White House can't see it or he does see it and is too weak to stand up to it.

[Mister D]

Isn't it against their religion to write on / deface the Koran?

Ha! Great point.

[MMC]

Two high-ranking U.S. officers were shot and killed by an assailant believed to be Afghan inside a high-security government building in Kabul on the fifth day of nationwide unrest sparked by the burning of Korans at a NATO military base.

The assailant entered the officers' room at the Interior Ministry, which had a security code lock, and shot both in the head, according to a senior police official. The shooter escaped and is still on the loose, according to NATO and Afghan officials.

The Afghan Taliban have claimed responsibility for the attack, though there is not yet any evidence connecting the group to the shooting.

Just hours after the attack at the Interior Ministry today, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's office released a message from the nation's top religious council demanding that the U.S. "guarantee" no further desecration of Korans.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/two-american-officers-murdered-afghan-unrest-continues-184037169--abc-news.html

[MMC]

KUNDUZ/KABUL, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Seven U.S. military trainers were wounded on Sunday when a grenade was thrown at their base in northern Afghanistan, police said, as anti-Western fury deepened over the burning of the Koran at a NATO base.

One civilian was killed, 15 more were wounded and three policemen injured in riots near the NATO base in northern Kunduz province, where the blast that wounded the Americans took place, regional police chief Samihullah Qatra told reporters.
NATO confirmed there had been an explosion outside one of its bases in northern Afghanistan, but declined to comment on casualties.

The protests have killed 30 people and wounded 200, including two other U.S. troops who were shot dead by an Afghan soldier who joined rallies in the country's east.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai repeated his plea for calm and restraint. "It is time to regain and preserve our calm, and not allow our enemies to misuse it," he told reporters, referring to the nationwide violence.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-ministry-worker-suspected-killing-u-officers-123424564.html
Reuters – 6 hrs ago<<<<< More here!

[MMC]

Updated!

[jgreer]

Now afghan soldiers are shooting our soldiers what a mess