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Conley
02-25-2012, 02:17 PM
As the announcement was made Saturday evening that Russia and China had vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the actions of the Syrian regime, some Christians inside the country celebrated.

One man from the western Syrian town of Qatana called his relatives to say "mabrook," or congratulations, on the result of the vote. A lounge bar in Damascus offered two alcoholic drinks for one in a happy hour offer.

But in Christian homes around the country the prevailing sentiment is one of relief rather than delight -- they link the survival of the Assad regime to their own.

"Thank god for Russia. Without Russia we are doomed," said a Christian woman from Damascus recently.

As a fellow minority, Christians have long supported the Alawite regime in order to ensure protection and rights for themselves. The Alawite are a Shiite sect of Islam.

"Look what has happened in Iraq and now in Egypt," said the woman. "Assad in power means that won't happen here."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57372175-503543/syrias-christians-stand-by-assad/

Also, another article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/world/middleeast/fearing-change-syria-christians-back-bashar-al-assad.html

I didn't realize up to 10% of Syrians are Christians. They risk being slaughtered. I haven't seen much coverage of this angle and haven't heard any mention of it from our government officials who are demanding that Assad step down.

Mister D
02-25-2012, 02:46 PM
Hard to argue with them. If "democracy" means that the majority can up and kill you it's probably not in your best interest.

Conley
02-25-2012, 02:58 PM
Exactly. Democracy doesn't do any good for the dead.

Mister D
02-25-2012, 03:02 PM
Exactly. Democracy doesn't do any good for the dead.

Well put.

Peter1469
02-25-2012, 03:05 PM
An interesting twist to the drama.

MMC
02-25-2012, 03:51 PM
Don't you luv it when a plan all comes together. Yet to hear SOS Clinton talk about Assad and his regime. You would think she was decribing Stalin.

Seems none are worried about that Sunni and Saud influence with our politicians. I do have to give Kudos to none other that the Frenchman Czarkosy. At least he did get up and speak out about the killing of Christians throughtout the ME and into Asia. Likened it to religious genocide. To the UN!!!!!

Mister D
02-25-2012, 03:54 PM
MMC gives credit to a Frenchman! :shocked: Oh wait...he's Hungarian. You're off the hook, MMC. :wink:

Conley
02-25-2012, 03:56 PM
Don't you luv it when a plan all comes together. Yet to hear SOS Clinton talk about Assad and his regime. You would think she was decribing Stalin.

Seems none are worried about that Sunni and Saud influence with our politicians. I do have to give Kudos to none other that the Frenchman Czarkosy. At least he did get up and speak out about the killing of Christians throughtout the ME and into Asia. Likened it to religious genocide. To the UN!!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/jiEM4.gif

MMC
02-25-2012, 04:01 PM
Your kidding.....he is Hungarian? :smilie_thud:

Mister D
02-25-2012, 04:01 PM
Your kidding.....he is Hungarian? :smilie_thud:

He's from an immigrant Hungarian family. He's not French by blood.

Mister D
02-25-2012, 04:04 PM
Only half Hungarian, apparently. He's also Jewish. In any case, that mofo is a foreigner! :grin:

Sarkozy is the son of Pál István Ernő Sárközy de Nagy-Bócsa (Hungarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language): nagybócsai Sárközy Pál [nɒɟ͡ʝboːt͡ʃɒi ʃaːrkřzi paːl] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Hungarian) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Speaker_Icon.svg/13px-Speaker_Icon.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pal_sarkozy.ogg) listen (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Pal_sarkozy.ogg)); in some sources Nagy-Bócsay Sárközy Pál István Ernő),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy#cite_note-nytimes.com-2) a Hungarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_people) aristocrat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocracy),[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy#cite_note-3) and Andrée Jeanne "Dadu" Mallah (b. Paris, 12 October 1925), who is of Greek Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Jews) and French (Catholic) origin.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy#cite_note-BBCProf-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy#cite_note-5) They were married at Saint-François-de-Sales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-François-de-Sales), Paris XVII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17th_arrondissement_of_Paris), on 8 February 1950 and divorced in 1959.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy#cite_note-6)

MMC
02-25-2012, 04:09 PM
Wow, I knew the French were way out there. But who would have thought they would have hired a Foreigner to run their Country.:wink:

Mainecoons
02-25-2012, 05:26 PM
Any Obama supporter?

MMC
02-25-2012, 05:38 PM
:undecided:

RollingWave
02-28-2012, 09:50 PM
This have long been the problem, Assad family is a small Shite sect (the Alawits) and obviously they have a hard time running a predominently Sunni country, so they basically alignged with all the other minorites. not much different... from ... most amusingly... Saddam.

Conley
02-28-2012, 09:55 PM
This have long been the problem, Assad family is a small Shite sect (the Alawits) and obviously they have a hard time running a predominently Sunni country, so they basically alignged with all the other minorites. not much different... from ... most amusingly... Saddam.

Yep. Some have said women had it better under Saddam as well. Of course he tortured and murdered thousands, so... that statement must be assuming the women weren't one of those.

MMC
02-28-2012, 10:08 PM
Assad's line is also the last remaining bloodline to the original Syrians. Lets not forget that. The very last of the true Syrian people by blood. Shame the Arabs will end up taking their country forever.

RollingWave
02-28-2012, 11:40 PM
When Sun Yat San drafted his "Blue print for nation building" which he had hope to be a blue print for developing China in the early 20th C, he essentially set 3 stages.

1.Military rule: to make sure that there is actually just one government and not many, he advocate that before anything else all the other armed groups in the country (aka Warlords) need to be put down.

2.Party rule: after the country is actually stable, he advocate a period of relatively authoritarian rule to establish the fundementals for democracy, aka basic education, rule of law, functional local administrations etc.

3.Constitutional rule: and the final stage is to end the one party rule and go towards a normal democracy, with all the required elements being there.

Though this was written in 1924, you can't help to think of how relavent it is to many of the events today.

Conley
02-28-2012, 11:44 PM
When Sun Yat San drafted his "Blue print for nation building" which he had hope to be a blue print for developing China in the early 20th C, he essentially set 3 stages.

1.Military rule: to make sure that there is actually just one government and not many, he advocate that before anything else all the other armed groups in the country (aka Warlords) need to be put down.

2.Party rule: after the country is actually stable, he advocate a period of relatively authoritarian rule to establish the fundementals for democracy, aka basic education, rule of law, functional local administrations etc.

3.Constitutional rule: and the final stage is to end the one party rule and go towards a normal democracy, with all the required elements being there.

Though this was written in 1924, you can't help to think of how relavent it is to many of the events today.

Thanks RollingWave, that is a great post and hugely relevant.

I am against the concept of "nation building", but if you're going to do it you can't skip step one.

RollingWave
02-29-2012, 12:38 AM
yeah but he was talking about building his own nation though, not building other peoples ;)

MMC
02-29-2012, 12:51 AM
yeah but he was talking about building his own nation though, not building other peoples ;)

Even Better....:greatjob:

MMC
02-29-2012, 12:59 AM
Heya RollingWave.....would you happen to know some History of the Warring States over there? :smiley:

RollingWave
02-29-2012, 02:19 AM
Sure, I'm a fairly avid amature historian, almost anything regarding China and a lot of other places I would know a thing or two about. (notable exception is probably India / S.E Asia, and more near modern histories) Chinese history espeically I should be about as good as any non academic can get. And on a few specific subject I have done considerable academic level studies (Such as the Imjin war of 1592-98, when Japan invaded Korea and the Ming dynasty of China eventually was forced to help the Koreans.)

Hell I even dabble in making mods for Medieval 2 Total War on the grounds of making it more historic :grin:

MMC
02-29-2012, 06:22 AM
Sure, I'm a fairly avid amature historian, almost anything regarding China and a lot of other places I would know a thing or two about. (notable exception is probably India / S.E Asia, and more near modern histories) Chinese history espeically I should be about as good as any non academic can get. And on a few specific subject I have done considerable academic level studies (Such as the Imjin war of 1592-98, when Japan invaded Korea and the Ming dynasty of China eventually was forced to help the Koreans.)

Hell I even dabble in making mods for Medieval 2 Total War on the grounds of making it more historic :grin:

Thanks for Responding Rolling Wave. Thats Great you are into such. Perhaps you could start some threads on some of those issues. Most definately the Warring States. I, myself, have done several studies into the Clans. Although was looking to delve deeper into some of those smaller clans that were eaten up right away.

Especially if there was any Notable Warriors of those Smaller Clans. The type that commanded respect even from their enemies. Or one that the others had to be wary of.

Truly it is some great history to go over. Putting it up in the Pub or even the Science thread would be alright. As Any arecheology discoveries and or technologies will get noted. Course many know of the Mongels and Timajen and his heirs. Perhaps in that thread you could point out some of those differences. Like between Wei, and Shu. Or Ming and Tang.

I also studied the Japanese Clans and the Vietmanese. Not so much on the Koreans.

Mister D
02-29-2012, 09:28 AM
I found my Japanese 1937 'China Incident' medal. I was throwing out my bookcases (I'm getting new ones) and the medal fell out onto my driveway.

Conley
02-29-2012, 09:51 AM
yeah but he was talking about building his own nation though, not building other peoples ;)

:laugh: True, true...now you've got me wanting to play M2TW.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/Shogun_2_Total_War_box_art.jpg

I want to try this one at some point...

MMC
02-29-2012, 10:50 AM
:laugh: True, true...now you've got me wanting to play M2TW.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/Shogun_2_Total_War_box_art.jpg

I want to try this one at some point...


I use to play Total War.....Roman Conquest. Plus my kids use to play that Dynasty Warriors all the time. Not to mention All the AOE's Games.

RollingWave
02-29-2012, 11:19 AM
I don't like Shogun 2 too much... the clans' variety is too low and the it's hard as hell to mod. unfortunately M2TW and RTW is still better.

Conley
02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't like Shogun 2 too much... the clans' variety is too low and the it's hard as hell to mod. unfortunately M2TW and RTW is still better.

Ah, good to know. I haven't played the M2TW in forever, I should reinstall it if I get the time. I think there is a new one coming out too.

Fall of the Samurai Add on Pack is coming out for S2 also, maybe that will improve it.

An upcoming standalone expansion to Total War: Shogun 2 titled Fall of the Samurai, is to be released on March 23, 2012. It will be set during the events leading up to and including the Meiji Restoration, when the threat of Western powers forced Japan's government to modernize and eventually abolish its traditional Samurai-based feudal system.
Being placed in a period later than any of the previous Total War games, there are many new features not seen in previous games. For the first time, railroad will make an appearance in this game, allowing much faster troop movement in the campaign map. The Gatling gun, one of the first machine-guns developed, also appears in the game.
Artillery units and ships can now bombard enemy units directly on campaign map. Likewise, coastal guns can now be built to counter such bombardment. Naval warfare also has significant change as ships in this expansion are now steam-powered, requiring a significant change in naval tactics from previous games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_War:_Shogun_2

MMC
02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't like Shogun 2 too much... the clans' variety is too low and the it's hard as hell to mod. unfortunately M2TW and RTW is still better.

Hope you will get a thread started on the Warring States Rolling Wave.....I didn't want to start one and steal your thunder so to speak. But I am eagerly awaiting to see what you will come up with. I am sure that will be one thread that we can keep going.

As I don't want to derail this one. :wink:

Conley
02-29-2012, 11:30 AM
Sorry I derailed this with videogames...we can start a new thread on that too. :grin:

Peter1469
02-29-2012, 02:17 PM
I use to play Total War.....Roman Conquest. Plus my kids use to play that Dynasty Warriors all the time. Not to mention All the AOE's Games.


I like Rome Total War Total Realism the best. But if you download the Total Realism none of the addons like Shogun will work.

MMC
02-29-2012, 02:23 PM
I like Rome Total War Total Realism the best. But if you download the Total Realism none of the addons like Shogun will work.

:laugh: yeah.....we found that out the hard way.

Mister D
02-29-2012, 02:30 PM
The Total War series was fun. I played Medieval and Rome. One minor flaw, IMO, was that the Roman infantry were far too clumsy with their pila (javelins) they carried. They should have been able to throw those realistically at a stationary or charging enemy. It turned into a long process during which the unit was vulnerable.

RollingWave
02-29-2012, 09:14 PM
I like Rome Total War Total Realism the best. But if you download the Total Realism none of the addons like Shogun will work.

RTR is very good, though the most functioning version is kinda old and the newest one is still in the work, current best functioning version IMHO is Roma Surrectom