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Cigar
02-04-2014, 12:48 PM
4-year-old Anala Beevers Accepted into MENSA with IQ of 145http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy172/thehlmn/For%20Harriet/Anala-Beevers-becomes-MENSA-member-at-4.jpg

This Black History Month, we'd thought it would be great to highlight some young people who represent an impressive Black future.

Sabrina and Landon Beevers attest that their daughter, Anala, learned the alphabet at only 4 months old, and it's hard to doubt them because Anala has an IQ over 145. The New Orleans toddler was invited to join Mensa, the high-IQ society for people who score at the 98th percentile or higher on the standardized intelligence test last June. Anala is in the 99th percentile.

That was more than half a year ago. Surely, Anala is successfully multiplying fractions by now.

Video at the Link.

http://shine.forharriet.com/2014/02/4-year-old-anala-beevers-accepted-into.html

I found more here

'I'm FOUR and smarter than my parents': Toddler who can recite every capital city and boasts IQ over 145 becomes Mensa's newest member

Anala Beevers from New Orleans learned the alphabet when she was four months old and by 18 months had mastered numbers in Spanish.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/29/article-2380978-1B0DFC07000005DC-637_634x467.jpg

Brainy: Anala Beevers, aged four, who can recite the capital of every country and U.S. state

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/29/article-2380978-1B0DFC14000005DC-634_634x379.jpg
Lost in thought: The four-year-old's current preoccupation is learning the names of the planets and dinosaurs

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2380978/Toddler-Anala-Beevers-boasts-IQ-145-Mensas-newest-member.html#ixzz2sJsRlydM



Next ... a Statistics lesson from our own Mensa Experts :wink:

The Xl
02-04-2014, 12:54 PM
That's totally awesome. Good for that kid.

High IQ and race have nothing to do with each other, the average scores that vary from race to race are easily explained by many variables that have no foundation in race. I truly believe that and stand by that assertion.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 12:58 PM
That's totally awesome. Good for that kid.

High IQ and race have nothing to do with each other, the average scores that vary from race to race are easily explained by many variables that have no foundation in race. I truly believe that and stand by that assertion.

That's not going to make you popular among the Experts on Black People here on this Forum :laugh: Good Luck :grin: and may the Flavor be with you. :afro:

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 12:58 PM
Yay, let's pretend rare outliers are the norm! That'll defeat years of statistical research that shows the exact opposite conclusion!


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/51d18c1169bedd0b0d000021-800-800/ricky-rubio-yao-ming.jpg

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:00 PM
:cya20: Ooops

Pure Genius: Black Mensa Members


American Mensa (http://www.us.mensa.org/) literally recognizes the brightest minds in the country—those who have scored in the top 2 percent of the general population on its standardized test. There are more than 57,000 members of the prestigious organization in the U.S. alone, and their diverse backgrounds include teachers, athletes, CEOs and homemakers—362 of those members are African-American. Here’s a look at nine of the group’s most distinguished Black members.—Britt Middleton


http://www.bet.com/news/national/photos/2012/02/pure-genius-black-mensa-members.html#!021412-national-mensa-Dr-Patricia-Turner

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:01 PM
Because a black person with a high IQ is similar to being 9 ft tall.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:02 PM
Yay, let's pretend rare outliers are the norm! That'll defeat years of statistical research that shows the exact opposite conclusion!


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/51d18c1169bedd0b0d000021-800-800/ricky-rubio-yao-ming.jpg

Someone the size of Yao Ming is any anomaly for any race, not just Asians. And frankly, a 145 IQ is rare for any race, as well.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:02 PM
Because a black person with a high IQ is similar to being 9 ft tall.

Lol this. How many people ever in the NBA have been 7'6 aside from Yao? He's a ridiculous anomaly.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:03 PM
Because a black person with a high IQ is similar to being 9 ft tall.

I'd say the average Asian guy is far, far shorter than Yao Ming, but because of Yao Ming's existence, I should believe that genetic traits like height are completely random in every group of people.

That's basically what this thread is doing.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:03 PM
Lol this. How many people ever in the NBA have been 7'6 aside from Yao? He's a ridiculous anomaly.

And so are black people with really high IQ's.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:04 PM
I'd say the average Asian guy is far, far shorter than Yao Ming, but because of Yao Ming's existence, I should believe that genetic traits like height are completely random in every group of people.

That's basically what this thread is doing.

The average white or black dude isn't hitting Yao Mings height, either. It was a somewhat extreme metaphor, at the very least.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:06 PM
And so are black people with really high IQ's.

Not to that extent, no, and it's not even that close.

In any case, what do you think would happen if blacks with high IQs bred at mass?

Having a high IQ might be genetic to an extent, but it isn't racial.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:06 PM
Lol this. How many people ever in the NBA have been 7'6 aside from Yao? He's a ridiculous anomaly.


Manute Bol was 7 ft 7 inches. RIP

MrJimmyDale
02-04-2014, 01:06 PM
More than 57,000 members and 362 are black?????????

WTH

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:07 PM
Say "when" ... when you want me to stop ... :afro:

BLACK 2 YR OLD Genius. YOUNGEST at MENSAHer IQ is 156. (Average IQ's are app 100). MENSA is the High IQ society of the world.
The one and only requirement is an IQ that is in the TOP 2% percentile of ALL IQ's. An IQ of appp 132 qualifies you for MENSA. Hers is 156.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_zjafw1qs&feature=player_detailpage

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:07 PM
Manute Bol was 7 ft 7 inches. RIP

Yeah, he's the only other guy I can think of. I think the only active player anywhere comparable is Roy Hibbert at 7'2, and even he's a good 4 inches shorter.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:08 PM
I'd say the average Asian guy is far, far shorter than Yao Ming, but because of Yao Ming's existence, I should believe that genetic traits like height are completely random in every group of people.

That's basically what this thread is doing.

Spot on.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:08 PM
Lol this. How many people ever in the NBA have been 7'6 aside from Yao? He's a ridiculous anomaly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_players_in_National_Basketball_Ass ociation_history

#3 was a white guy.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:09 PM
More than 57,000 members and 362 are black?????????

WTH

They should cancel the organization because it lacks diversity, like the SOAR program in New York.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:10 PM
Spot on.

Except that IQs over 130 are more common than 8 ft tall people.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:10 PM
Not to that extent, no, and it's not even that close.

In any case, what do you think would happen if blacks with high IQs bred at mass?

Having a high IQ might be genetic to an extent, but it isn't racial.

The IQ scores of future generations would regress toward the mean. That's what tends to happen.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:11 PM
Except that IQs over 130 are more common than 8 ft tall people.

Such IQ scores are relatively uncommon among blacks. It is what it is. :afro:

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_players_in_National_Basketball_Ass ociation_history

#3 was a white guy.
I can't believe I forgot about Bradley. Although he's not number 3 by himself, he's tied with Yao.

Still, an anomaly regardless of race. Only a handful of guys that big ever in the history of the NBA, and it's infrequent in general.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:12 PM
The IQ scores of future generations would regress toward the mean. That's what tends to happen.

The more likely scenario is the child of the two parents having a high IQ having a high IQ himself/herself.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:12 PM
I can't believe I forgot about Bradley. Although he's not number 3 by himself, he's tied with Yao.

Still, an anomaly regardless of race. Only a handful of guys that big ever in the history of the NBA, and it's infrequent in general.

Whatever happened to him?

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:13 PM
Whatever happened to him?

I'm pretty sure the dude retired like a decade ago, lol.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:15 PM
Except that IQs over 130 are more common than 8 ft tall people.

Notice how easy that was ... :grin: he was reeled in with little effort and no fight.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/singing-fish-singing.jpg

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:15 PM
The more likely scenario is the child of the two parents having a high IQ having a high IQ himself/herself.

No, that's actually not likely over the long term. IQ is not 100% heritible.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:16 PM
No, that's actually not likely over the long term. IQ is not 100% heritible.

Well no, not 100%, but the kid of intelligent parents is more likely to have a high IQ than the kid of dumb parents, regardless of race.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:16 PM
Notice how easy that was ... :grin: he was reeled in with little effort and no fight.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/singing-fish-singing.jpg

5805

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:19 PM
Well no, not 100%, but the kid of intelligent parents is more likely to have a high IQ than the kid of dumb parents, regardless of race.

Certainly. Over time, however, the likelihood of that disappears because IQ is not 100% heritible. I do agree that IQ is at least partly heritible which is why I favor a partly genetic explanation.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:23 PM
Not to that extent, no, and it's not even that close.

In any case, what do you think would happen if blacks with high IQs bred at mass?

Having a high IQ might be genetic to an extent, but it isn't racial.

Why do you ask "what would happen if blacks with high IQs bred at mass"? Are you under the impression that white people did this in significant numbers at some point?

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:25 PM
Remember everyone ... if you have any questions, simply ask The Experts :riot:


:smiley_ROFLMAO:

http://farrenbutcherincorporated.com/12/funny-kkk-pictures-115.jpg

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:25 PM
Such IQ scores are relatively uncommon among blacks. It is what it is. :afro:

Only if you have the capability of providing accurate assessment's of intelligence including a definition of what it is.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/clar0841/psychblog/2011/11/different-types-of-intelligence-tests.html

The Stanford Binet test can assess you from age 2 before you can even write because it doesn't require reading skills or base knowledge, but that's not what everyone's being judged on, is it?

http://www.unc.edu/~rooney/iq.htm

The experts can't even decide what intelligence is or have a set definition but you do.

Is it


as a general, unified capacity for acquiring knowledge, reasoning, and solving problems

is it


composed of many separate mental abilities that operate more or less independently...seven different types of intelligence. These include linguistic, logical/math, verbal/spatial, musical, bodily/kinesthetic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal abilities.

is it


the biological adaptation of an individual to the environment


I've taken 3 different IQ tests and got different results every damn time. Am I super smart some days and average on others? Before the Chinese took on more of a western style IQ test they did better on the whole than Japan or Singapore. Now, Singapore outranks them. Did they get stupider or just used a different test? What about the "dumb Polacks"? They have the highest IQ scores in Europe. How do you explain how some white people are considered stupid but test smarter?

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:25 PM
Why do you ask "what would happen if blacks with high IQs bred at mass"? Are you under the impression that white people did this in significant numbers at some point?

Not necessarily, but blacks were selectively bred in the past and the poorest and lowest IQ'd currently breed at a high rate, which will obviously lower their overall IQ.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:26 PM
Why do you ask "what would happen if blacks with high IQs bred at mass"? Are you under the impression that white people did this in significant numbers at some point?

Good point.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:26 PM
Not necessarily, but blacks were selectively bred in the past and the poorest and lowest IQ'd currently breed at a high rate, which will obviously lower their overall IQ.

Sadly, that's true of whtes as well.

hey, when did you show an interest in eugenics? :grin:

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:28 PM
Sadly, that's true of whtes as well.

hey, when did you show an interest in eugenics? :grin:

Perhaps, but not in America, or at least, not to that extent.

I'm not interested in genetics, rather, I'm making a point to show it is not inherently racial.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:30 PM
Only if you have the capability of providing accurate assessment's of intelligence including a definition of what it is.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/clar0841/psychblog/2011/11/different-types-of-intelligence-tests.html

The Stanford Binet test can assess you from age 2 before you can even write because it doesn't require reading skills or base knowledge, but that's not what everyone's being judged on, is it?

http://www.unc.edu/~rooney/iq.htm

The experts can't even decide what intelligence is or have a set definition but you do.

Is it



is it



is it




I've taken 3 different IQ tests and got different results every damn time. Am I super smart some days and average on others? Before the Chinese took on more of a western style IQ test they did better on the whole than Japan or Singapore. Now, Singapore outranks them. Did they get stupider or just used a different test? What about the "dumb Polacks"? They have the highest IQ scores in Europe. How do you explain how some white people are considered stupid but test smarter?

Sigh...obfuscate much, angry black man? Mean IQ scores are what they are. I'm not surprised you don't like them. That explains why your last refuge is to insist that IQ means nothing and that intelliegnce can't be measured. Then again, why worry? Just last night you were saying there was no such thing as "black" so why worry about black IQ? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:32 PM
Perhaps, but not in America, or at least, not to that extent.

I'm not interested in genetics, rather, I'm making a point to show it is not inherently racial.

Yes, in America. The lower classes breed at higher rates regardless of race.

I think it is. I don't think that whatever genes impact intelligence are evenly distributed across populations. Why would you expect them to be? We can agree to disagree. What I don't understand is why this becomes so poisonous.

Captain Obvious
02-04-2014, 01:34 PM
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5386946_700b.jpg

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:35 PM
Sigh...obfuscate much, angry black man? Mean IQ scores are what they are. I'm not surprised you don't like them. That explains why your last refuge is to insist that IQ means nothing and that intelliegnce can't be measured. Then again, why worry? Just last night you were saying there was no such thing as "black" so why worry about black IQ? :smiley_ROFLMAO:


When did I become angry or appear worried? I am producing links from legitimate sources and asking questions. If all you're going to do is reduce my links from edus into some kind of insult I have a hard time thinking that you're worthy of a discussion on intelligence.

I asked you to define intelligence and to explain how each country and race got measured for it before we continue down the path of discussion. Obviously this is too difficult for you to do so you have to insult me instead.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:35 PM
Only if you have the capability of providing accurate assessment's of intelligence including a definition of what it is.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/clar0841/psychblog/2011/11/different-types-of-intelligence-tests.html

The Stanford Binet test can assess you from age 2 before you can even write because it doesn't require reading skills or base knowledge, but that's not what everyone's being judged on, is it?

http://www.unc.edu/~rooney/iq.htm

The experts can't even decide what intelligence is or have a set definition but you do.

Is it



is it



is it




I've taken 3 different IQ tests and got different results every damn time. Am I super smart some days and average on others? Before the Chinese took on more of a western style IQ test they did better on the whole than Japan or Singapore. Now, Singapore outranks them. Did they get stupider or just used a different test? What about the "dumb Polacks"? They have the highest IQ scores in Europe. How do you explain how some white people are considered stupid but test smarter?


Dude ... don't bother ... just give Mr D a pat on the head and say Good Boy :laugh:

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:36 PM
Remember everyone ... if you have any questions, simply ask The Experts :riot:


:smiley_ROFLMAO:

http://farrenbutcherincorporated.com/12/funny-kkk-pictures-115.jpg

You're right. Black people are scary and violent.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:37 PM
Not necessarily, but blacks were selectively bred in the past and the poorest and lowest IQ'd currently breed at a high rate, which will obviously lower their overall IQ.

Which group hasn't been selectively bred "in the past"? The past covers a long time, and I doubt any group has been immune to it.

All groups have low IQ people breeding at high rates. There are still measurable differences in IQ.

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:38 PM
Yes, in America. The lower classes breed at higher rates regardless of race.

I think it is. I don't think that whatever genes impact intelligence are evenly distributed across populations. Why would you expect them to be? We can agree to disagree. What I don't understand is why this becomes so poisonous.

Their happened to be more poor blacks in America than whites, so it's going to drop their overall IQ more.

I'm fine with you believing what you want. We agree to disagree.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:38 PM
When did I become angry or appear worried? I am producing links from legitimate sources and asking questions. If all you're going to do is reduce my links from edus into some kind of insult I have a hard time thinking that you're worthy of a discussion on intelligence.

I asked you to define intelligence and to explain how each country and race got measured for it before we continue down the path of discussion. Obviously this is too difficult for you to do so you have to insult me instead.

You're not asking questions. You're obsfuscating. It's transparent. Mean IQ scores are what they are. I'd have more respect for your response if alternative explanations had been offered. Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Instead you dismissed IQ and intelligence altogether.

Why are you asking me to define intelligence if not in an effort to undermine the validity of IQ? I get it. You don't like the scores so you insist they mean nothing. OK. Agree to disagree. Cool?

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:39 PM
Which group hasn't been selectively bred "in the past"? The past covers a long time, and I doubt any group has been immune to it.

This is true, however, in this country, it has been black people, and it has happened far more recently to them than to whites, so it's obviously going to show up in the generations that follow.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:39 PM
Dude ... don't bother ... just give Mr D a pat on the head and say Good Boy :laugh:

I was under the impression we could discuss subjects and that includes clarifying terms. Some people would rather spout propaganda. Oh well.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:39 PM
Sigh...obfuscate much, angry black man? Mean IQ scores are what they are. I'm not surprised you don't like them. That explains why your last refuge is to insist that IQ means nothing and that intelliegnce can't be measured. Then again, why worry? Just last night you were saying there was no such thing as "black" so why worry about black IQ? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Yes, he said there's no such thing as a black person, when in the other thread he said he likes "black features" and "prefers black women".

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:40 PM
This is true, however, in this country, it has been black people, and it has happened far more recently to them than to whites, so it's obviously going to show up in the generations that follow.

Wait...are you saying blacks have been bred to have low IQs?

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:41 PM
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5386946_700b.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dNeQ8Obr1X0/S19ib7U6kkI/AAAAAAAACiU/aR5fqubPs_w/s400/Thick-White-Girls-Motivational-Poster-1.jpg

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:41 PM
I was under the impression we could discuss subjects and that includes clarifying terms. Some people would rather spout propaganda. Oh well.

You aren't interested in clarifying terms and you weren't interested in clarifying "black" last night.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:41 PM
Yes, he said there's no such thing as a black person, when in the other thread he said he likes "black features" and "prefers black women".

Right. He's all for his people but then defines them away.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:41 PM
Yes, in America. The lower classes breed at higher rates regardless of race.

I think it is. I don't think that whatever genes impact intelligence are evenly distributed across populations. Why would you expect them to be? We can agree to disagree. What I don't understand is why this becomes so poisonous.

What I want to know is why it's OK for society to accept that blacks are simply better at certain things like running, jumping, and dancing, but it's against some sort of moral law to even *hint* that whites can be better at some things, even when the statistics support that conclusion every time they are tested. Why the double standard?

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:42 PM
Wait...are you saying blacks have been bred to have low IQs?

They were selectively bred at one point, yes.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 01:43 PM
Right. He's all for his people but then defines them away.

They want to keep their race intact while trying to convince us that it's OK if ours is lost.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:43 PM
What I want to know is why it's OK for society to accept that blacks are simply better at certain things like running, jumping, and dancing, but it's against some sort of moral law to even *hint* that whites can be better at some things, even when the statistics support that conclusion every time they are tested. Why the double standard?

I think it's because as a society we have come to value intellect over all else. Hey, east Asians have a higher mean IQ than whites. I don't feel inferior.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:43 PM
You're not asking questions. You're obsfuscating. It's transparent. Mean IQ scores are what they are. I'd have more respect for your response if alternative explanations had been offered. Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Instead you dismissed IQ and intelligence altogether.

No. You are making assumptions which I have not yet done to you. Either you are without knowledge of the variety of tests available and the nature of "intelligence" or you are the one obfuscating the discussion.

In the military we take a lot of tests. We understand that you may be highly intelligent in one area, you may have a general high intelligence, etc. It is no different than athleticism. Someone good at basketball may not be good at swimming. You could be a great runner but not made for gymnastics because your physical body is not suited.

For all your lofty pretense you're ignoring what is basic and simple and the core of my questions. What is intelligence? Can you be a good linguist and stink at math and still be considered intelligent?

So take your attitude and your assumptions and play that tune somewhere else. We're having a discussion and my questions are on topic.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:44 PM
They want to keep their race intact while trying to convince us that it's OK if ours is lost.

I think he just wanted to help his ailing buddy. White progressives do that though.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 01:45 PM
I was under the impression we could discuss subjects and that includes clarifying terms. Some people would rather spout propaganda. Oh well.

They are so easy and so insecure ... can you imagine what they are going to be like when a Woman is in office?

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:45 PM
They want to keep their race intact while trying to convince us that it's OK if ours is lost.

Who's "they"? I do not care if you marry white people or spend time with only white people. I'm not a progressive trying to make you sing damn campfire songs.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:46 PM
No. You are making assumptions which I have not yet done to you. Either you are without knowledge of the variety of tests available and the nature of "intelligence" or you are the one obfuscating the discussion.

In the military we take a lot of tests. We understand that you may be highly intelligent in one area, you may have a general high intelligence, etc. It is no different than athleticism. Someone good at basketball may not be good at swimming. You could be a great runner but not made for gymnastics because your physical body is not suited.

For all your lofty pretense you're ignoring what is basic and simple and the core of my questions. What is intelligence? Can you be a good linguist and stink at math and still be considered intelligent?

So take your attitude and your assumptions and play that tune somewhere else. We're having a discussion and my questions are on topic.

Wash, you're repeating yourself. I don't have the time for a thorough discussion of intelligence. We both know what you're trying to do. You want to undermine the validity of intelligence testing. That's fine. I think IQ testing is valid. You don't. Cool?

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:47 PM
They were selectively bred at one point, yes.

So the answer is genetic then. You just said so. So why am I a bad guy?

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:48 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/education/ed_mi_overview.html


Dr. Howard Gardner, a psychologist and professor of neuroscience from Harvard University, developed the theory of Multiple Intelligences (MI) in 1983. The theory challenged traditional beliefs in the fields of education and cognitive science. Unlike the established understanding of intelligence -- people are born with a uniform cognitive capacity that can be easily measured by short-answer tests -- MI reconsiders our educational practice of the last century and provides an alternative.

According to Howard Gardner, human beings have nine different kinds of intelligence that reflect different ways of interacting with the world. Each person has a unique combination, or profile. Although we each have all nine intelligences, no two individuals have them in the same exact configuration -- similar to our fingerprints. To read about the benefits of MI and for tips on implementing MI in your classroom, visit the Tips (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/education/ed_mi_tips.html) section. For additional MI resources, visit the Resources (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/education/ed_mi_resources.html) section.

For Gardner, intelligence is:



the ability to create an effective product or offer a service that is valued in a culture;
a set of skills that make it possible for a person to solve problems in life;
the potential for finding or creating solutions for problems, which involves gathering new knowledge.


HOWARD GARDNER'S NINE MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES:


1. Linguistic Intelligence: the capacity to use language to express what's on your mind and to understand other people. Any kind of writer, orator, speaker, lawyer, or other person for whom language is an important stock in trade has great linguistic intelligence.

2. Logical/Mathematical Intelligence: the capacity to understand the underlying principles of some kind of causal system, the way a scientist or a logician does; or to manipulate numbers, quantities, and operations, the way a mathematician does.

3. Musical Rhythmic Intelligence: the capacity to think in music; to be able to hear patterns, recognize them, and perhaps manipulate them. People who have strong musical intelligence don't just remember music easily, they can't get it out of their minds, it's so omnipresent.

4. Bodily/Kinesthetic Intelligence: the capacity to use your whole body or parts of your body (your hands, your fingers, your arms) to solve a problem, make something, or put on some kind of production. The most evident examples are people in athletics or the performing arts, particularly dancing or acting.

5. Spatial Intelligence: the ability to represent the spatial world internally in your mind -- the way a sailor or airplane pilot navigates the large spatial world, or the way a chess player or sculptor represents a more circumscribed spatial world. Spatial intelligence can be used in the arts or in the sciences.

6. Naturalist Intelligence: the ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) and sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations). This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef.

7. Intrapersonal Intelligence: having an understanding of yourself; knowing who you are, what you can do, what you want to do, how you react to things, which things to avoid, and which things to gravitate toward. We are drawn to people who have a good understanding of themselves. They tend to know what they can and can't do, and to know where to go if they need help.

8. Interpersonal Intelligence: the ability to understand other people. It's an ability we all need, but is especially important for teachers, clinicians, salespersons, or politicians -- anybody who deals with other people.

9. Existential Intelligence: the ability and proclivity to pose (and ponder) questions about life, death, and ultimate realities.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 01:49 PM
Wash, you're repeating yourself. I don't have the time for a thorough discussion of intelligence. We both know what you're trying to do. You want to undermine the validity of intelligence testing. That's fine. I think IQ testing is valid. You don't. Cool?

We both know that's what I'm trying to do? You should refrain from making assumptions.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:51 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/education/ed_mi_overview.html

That's nice. Great for Gardner. So I guess the point here is that IQ testing isn't valid?

The Xl
02-04-2014, 01:53 PM
So the answer is genetic then. You just said so. So why am I a bad guy?

Genetic does not mean racial, necessarily.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 01:58 PM
Genetic does not mean racial, necessarily.

Not necessarily but it sure looks that way in this case.

I think we would find much more agreement on how we should deal with these group differences as a society.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 02:01 PM
That's nice. Great for Gardner. So I guess the point here is that IQ testing isn't valid?

That's your guess? Do you consider yourself intelligent?

My point is that there are many types of intelligences, but our IQ test have until recently only measured #2 on that list which is why they could never assess very young kids because those tests required some base knowledge of math.

Your genetics, your home, your culture, and your environment determine what you will be good at. Someone good at languages is still intelligent even if they are bad at math. Being good at math doesn't mean you can learn multiple languages or even an additional one. Not being able to learn another language doesn't make you less intelligent just intelligent in a different way. People in nations with 20 different tribal languages including sign language has a different sort of intelligence than someone who's culture places an importance on math and can excel at calculus.

My point is that I don't know if this Asians are smarter than whites, Africans, or African Americans because I don't think intelligence is any one thing like you do. I am the first to say that blacks are not more athletic than whites. It's a different sort of athleticism. You don't see a lot of black swimmers but you see a lot of white ones.

Brewskier
02-04-2014, 02:02 PM
Who's "they"? I do not care if you marry white people or spend time with only white people. I'm not a progressive trying to make you sing damn campfire songs.

They as in "anti-whites". Whether they are progressives or just angry black people with axes to grind. The OP hits two of these, you hit one. Doesn't really matter.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 02:03 PM
That's your guess? Do you consider yourself intelligent?

My point is that there are many types of intelligences, but our IQ test have until recently only measured #2 on that list which is why they could never assess very young kids because those tests required some base knowledge of math.

Your genetics, your home, your culture, and your environment determine what you will be good at. Someone good at languages is still intelligent even if they are bad at math. Being good at math doesn't mean you can learn multiple languages or even an additional one. Not being able to learn another language doesn't make you less intelligent just intelligent in a different way. People in nations with 20 different tribal languages including sign language has a different sort of intelligence than someone who's culture places an importance on math and can excel at calculus.

My point is that I don't know if this Asians are smarter than whites, Africans, or African Americans because I don't think intelligence is any one thing like you do. I am the first to say that blacks are not more athletic than whites. It's a different sort of athleticism. You don't see a lot of black swimmers but you see a lot of white ones.

Great for Gardner and his theory. So, again, I guess your point is that IQ testing isn't a valid measure of intelligence, right?

Cigar
02-04-2014, 02:07 PM
:grin: It's a Beautiful thing

Mister D
02-04-2014, 02:07 PM
:grin: It's a Beautiful thing

Dude, you embarrass your race. :afro:

Cigar
02-04-2014, 02:15 PM
That's your guess? Do you consider yourself intelligent?

My point is that there are many types of intelligences, but our IQ test have until recently only measured #2 on that list which is why they could never assess very young kids because those tests required some base knowledge of math.

Your genetics, your home, your culture, and your environment determine what you will be good at. Someone good at languages is still intelligent even if they are bad at math. Being good at math doesn't mean you can learn multiple languages or even an additional one. Not being able to learn another language doesn't make you less intelligent just intelligent in a different way. People in nations with 20 different tribal languages including sign language has a different sort of intelligence than someone who's culture places an importance on math and can excel at calculus.

My point is that I don't know if this Asians are smarter than whites, Africans, or African Americans because I don't think intelligence is any one thing like you do. I am the first to say that blacks are not more athletic than whites. It's a different sort of athleticism. You don't see a lot of black swimmers but you see a lot of white ones.

If you really want a good laugh, pop in here on a Saturday or Sunday ... any time ... talk about no life. :laugh:

Mister D
02-04-2014, 02:16 PM
If you really want a good laugh, pop in here on a Saturday or Sunday ... any time ... talk about no life. :laugh:

Our most active member is telling us we have no lives again. :laugh:

Cigar
02-04-2014, 02:20 PM
You heard it here first ... from out own Mensa Member ... Size does Matter. :laugh:

The Wash
02-04-2014, 03:40 PM
Great for Gardner and his theory. So, again, I guess your point is that IQ testing isn't a valid measure of intelligence, right?

Bolding something doesn't make it more correct. My point is what I established with my words. IQ testing that only tests one type of intelligence isn't a good measurement tool. This is why I asked how your figures came to be and what test was used.

Understand yet?

I'll break it down. I'd like to know if Group A is more intelligent in linear fields or linguistic or is Group A all around more and if so, why? Is it diet, culture, or genetics?

You don't seem to know. You've presented this argument about IQ and I ask about measurement tools. You've yet to answer. Most likely because you don't know. Just admit it and we can move on.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 03:42 PM
Bolding something doesn't make it more correct. My point is what I established with my words. IQ testing that only tests one type of intelligence isn't a good measurement tool. This is why I asked how your figures came to be and what test was used.

Understand yet?

I'll break it down. I'd like to know if Group A is more intelligent in linear fields or linguistic or is Group A all around more and if so, why? Is it diet, culture, or genetics?

You don't seem to know. You've presented this argument about IQ and I ask about measurement tools. You've yet to answer. Most likely because you don't know. Just admit it and we can move on.

It's emphasis, Wash, and it's a question. A question that we both know the answer to. Again, you don't believe IQ tests are valid. Is that correct?

The Wash
02-04-2014, 03:50 PM
It's emphasis, Wash, and it's a question. A question that we both know the answer to. Again, you don't believe IQ tests are valid. Is that correct?

No, you seem to think you do. If you know the name of the IQ test you took to be a part of this intelligence study why don't you tell us? Why is it a secret?

The fact is you read somewhere that the IQ test scores on average were better in this group than that and didn't question it further because, just like you accuse me or others, you're looking for a response that you like. Me, I happen to understand from the military that you can have dudes who are off the charts in math but can't put their gun together when it's taken apart. Are they geniuses?

I came to understand there are many types of intelligences and unless you can tell me some specifics as to what test, what type of intelligence then nothing you have to say on the topic has any value.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 04:00 PM
No, you seem to think you do. If you know the name of the IQ test you took to be a part of this intelligence study why don't you tell us? Why is it a secret?

The fact is you read somewhere that the IQ test scores on average were better in this group than that and didn't question it further because, just like you accuse me or others, you're looking for a response that you like. Me, I happen to understand from the military that you can have dudes who are off the charts in math but can't put their gun together when it's taken apart. Are they geniuses?

I came to understand there are many types of intelligences and unless you can tell me some specifics as to what test, what type of intelligence then nothing you have to say on the topic has any value.

So IQ scores are meaningless, right? They are not a valid measurement of intelligence. Is that what you're trying to say? :smiley:

The Wash
02-04-2014, 05:18 PM
So IQ scores are meaningless, right? They are not a valid measurement of intelligence. Is that what you're trying to say? :smiley:

No. That is not what I'm trying to say. That's what you wish I was trying to say. I could say it again 10 more times but you'll just imply my response and ask another stupid question.

For the last fucking time I said three things

1. You cannot measure anything scientifically without both variable and control factors. To measure intelligence among groups the standard must be the same used with each individual in the study group, ie "the IQ test they are all taking".

This is why I've asked you a million times and you've dodged each time which fucking test. You don't know which test so you pretend my argument is something else.

2. That there are different types of intelligences which is another reason why I keep asking what you mean by intelligence.

3. Without understanding what type of intelligence we're talking about or how to measure it we don't even know how to look for the why behind the results.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 07:19 PM
No. That is not what I'm trying to say. That's what you wish I was trying to say. I could say it again 10 more times but you'll just imply my response and ask another stupid question.

For the last fucking time I said three things

1. You cannot measure anything scientifically without both variable and control factors. To measure intelligence among groups the standard must be the same used with each individual in the study group, ie "the IQ test they are all taking".

This is why I've asked you a million times and you've dodged each time which fucking test. You don't know which test so you pretend my argument is something else.

2. That there are different types of intelligences which is another reason why I keep asking what you mean by intelligence.

3. Without understanding what type of intelligence we're talking about or how to measure it we don't even know how to look for the why behind the results.

Please stop lecturing us about science and method.

Angry black guy, virtually all intelligence testing has blacks at the bottom. Do you know of any that show blacks above whites? Do you? If so, I'm sure it's an outlier.

no, one guy comes out with a (heavily criticized) theory of multiple intelligences and you jump at it. We know why.

I ask again, are IQ tests valid measures of intelligence? Yes or no?

The Wash
02-04-2014, 07:22 PM
Angry black guy, virtually all intelligence testing has blacks at the bottom. Do you know of any that show blacks above whites? Do you? If so, I'm sure it's an outlier.

no, one guy comes out with a (heavily criticized) theory of multiple intelligences and you jump at it. We know why.

I ask again, are IQ tests valid measures of intelligence? Yes or no?

Stupid white guy, continue to avoid my point and we won't be debating. Answer my questions then we'll talk.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Stupid white guy, continue to avoid my point and we won't be debating. Answer my questions then we'll talk.

Angry black guy, virtually all intelligence testing has blacks at the bottom. Do you know of any that show blacks above whites? Do you? If so, I'm sure it's an outlier. I notice you tried to duck that. You're slow for a Negro.

You ducked these too:

no, one guy comes out with a (heavily criticized) theory of multiple intelligences and you jump at it. We know why.

I ask again, are IQ tests valid measures of intelligence? Yes or no?

Mister D
02-04-2014, 07:29 PM
I sense another lecture on IQ tests coming as if this wasn't an oft repeated statistical pattern...so what was your point, Wash? That you need "variables and control factors"? Peter do you know? nic?

Kalkin
02-04-2014, 07:31 PM
I'm a red pig with a 138.

Max Rockatansky
02-04-2014, 07:36 PM
The IQ scores of future generations would regress toward the mean. That's what tends to happen.

It seems to me the mean IQ would go up.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 07:39 PM
It seems to me the mean IQ would go up.

It has for all races but that (the Flynn Effect) may be coming to an end.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 07:41 PM
I sense another lecture on IQ tests coming as if this wasn't an oft repeated statistical pattern...so what was your point, Wash? That you need "variables and control factors"? Peter do you know? nic?

Don't play stupid when you're not. There are different types of intelligences and because of that there are different types of tests. To measure intelligence you must first define the type of intelligence you are measuring. Now, you can run all around this point and pretend you misunderstand me but everyone knows you're just dodging.

I'm content with that.

zelmo1234
02-04-2014, 07:53 PM
That's not going to make you popular among the Experts on Black People here on this Forum :laugh: Good Luck :grin: and may the Flavor be with you. :afro:

Why would you have t make this about color you racist fuck.

Instead of celebrating a brilliant child and honoring her accomplishments, you are only looking at the color of her skin.

MLK would roll over in his grave. You see you have decided to judge people by the color of their skin, instead of the content or there character!

90% of the time in a discussion if race it brought up, it is you that is trying to make something up!

It really is sad!

I am proud of her, and hope that she achieves all of her hopes and dreams.

The Sage of Main Street
02-04-2014, 07:53 PM
It's takes a Low IQ to not realize that the exception proves the rule. Her jungle genes will eventually dominate her. Stokely Carmichael had a High IQ, but was driven to eventually and inevitably support savage gangbangers and retards.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 08:01 PM
Don't play stupid when you're not. There are different types of intelligences and because of that there are different types of tests. To measure intelligence you must first define the type of intelligence you are measuring. Now, you can run all around this point and pretend you misunderstand me but everyone knows you're just dodging.

I'm content with that.

Sorry, I don't buy that stuff about multiple intelligences. It's just another politically inspired theory from the usual suspects but that's neither here nor there. So you agree that IQ tests do measure something, right? They at least measure some kind of intelligence in your view? If so, what are we arguing about? Perhaps you feel we place too much emphasis in our society on certain cognitive skills like problem solving, critical thinking and so forth? I agree we tend to have a somewhat restricted sense of what makes different human beings of value and what individuals have to offer society. "Smarter" is not better.

Wash, it has never been my intention to demean anyone. I don't think blacks are stupid. You're black. You're not stupid. One reason why I think this is important to talk about is that we are always chasing chimeras. blacks as a group don't so as well as whites as a group academically? Geepers there must racism afoot. Instead of wasting our time and resources fucking up race relations perhaps we should focus on individuals, their skills, their capacities, and their desires. Just one example. no, my heart is good, Wash.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 08:05 PM
Why would you have t make this about color you racist fuck.

Instead of celebrating a brilliant child and honoring her accomplishments, you are only looking at the color of her skin.

MLK would roll over in his grave. You see you have decided to judge people by the color of their skin, instead of the content or there character!

90% of the time in a discussion if race it brought up, it is you that is trying to make something up!

It really is sad!

I am proud of her, and hope that she achieves all of her hopes and dreams.

It's funny how Cigar likes to point to all the 'race talk' on this forum when he starts well over half the threads focusing on race.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 08:08 PM
Why would you have t make this about color you racist fuck.

Instead of celebrating a brilliant child and honoring her accomplishments, you are only looking at the color of her skin.

MLK would roll over in his grave. You see you have decided to judge people by the color of their skin, instead of the content or there character!

90% of the time in a discussion if race it brought up, it is you that is trying to make something up!

It really is sad!

I am proud of her, and hope that she achieves all of her hopes and dreams.

Why ... well let me break it down 4-yea sport ... :grin:

First ... because I wanted to ... so when in doubt, go with the first because you can't do anything about it.
Second, if you weren't paying attention, this forum spent all day Monday posting from White Experts on Black IQ
Third, I thought it was poetic to shove that Expertise up Ass of the White Experts on Black IQ ... sideways ... and dry.
Fourth ... I know Racist have a really hard time with facts that rebut their Bull-Shit, so I know only racist have a problem with this post.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 08:09 PM
It's funny how Cigar likes to point to all the 'race talk' on this forum when he starts well over half the threads focusing on race.

If you have a problem with it ... do something about it. :laugh:

Mister D
02-04-2014, 08:10 PM
If you have a problem with it ... do something about it. :laugh:

Humiliating you on a daily basis is enough.

The Sage of Main Street
02-04-2014, 08:11 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/education/ed_mi_overview.html

You base things on shallow assumptions taken from self-appointed authorities. In college, the student lives like a child, so he approaches his professors with the mind of a child. That makes them intellectual pedophiles. Such dominating people, their egos artificially re-inforced by their intellectual perversion, come up with strange ideas, so I we shouldn't take their pompous New Age theories seriously. They are also escapists and narrow-minded conformists to decadent irrational fads. They have as little to do with productive intelligence as sportswriters have to do with being athletic.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 08:18 PM
Humiliating you on a daily basis is enough.

Glad you're happy with yourself ... :jackoff:

The Sage of Main Street
02-04-2014, 08:22 PM
No. That is not what I'm trying to say. That's what you wish I was trying to say. I could say it again 10 more times but you'll just imply my response and ask another stupid question.

For the last fucking time I said three things

1. You cannot measure anything scientifically without both variable and control factors. To measure intelligence among groups the standard must be the same used with each individual in the study group, ie "the IQ test they are all taking".

This is why I've asked you a million times and you've dodged each time which fucking test. You don't know which test so you pretend my argument is something else.

2. That there are different types of intelligences which is another reason why I keep asking what you mean by intelligence.

3. Without understanding what type of intelligence we're talking about or how to measure it we don't even know how to look for the why behind the results.

Although slavish multiculturalist psychologists are afraid to back me up, I believe that one type covers all. I thought I didn't have the quick-response type of intelligence, but I specifically prepared for that with the Post Office test and got the highest score possible. I don't believe your example of math majors having trouble with languages is valid either; they just weren't interested and couldn't see how it would benefit them. If all the latest math were written in German, they would become language geniuses.

zelmo1234
02-04-2014, 08:47 PM
Why ... well let me break it down 4-yea sport ... :grin:

First ... because I wanted to ... so when in doubt, go with the first because you can't do anything about it.
Second, if you weren't paying attention, this forum spent all day Monday posting from White Experts on Black IQ
Third, I thought it was poetic to shove that Expertise up Ass of the White Experts on Black IQ ... sideways ... and dry.
Fourth ... I know Racist have a really hard time with facts that rebut their Bull-Shit, so I know only racist have a problem with this post.

I am sorry I did not see the post on Black IQ's That is stupid as shit. Hell if was not for my VP's and there organization and intelligence as well as how fast they can research I would be screwed, and they are both very black!

But dude you are finding racism everywhere and I for one think that it has to wear on you, you are kind of filing up with hate!

The Wash
02-04-2014, 08:55 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that stuff about multiple intelligences.

There ya go. Thank you for finally answering my question and showing some honesty. You don't believe in multiple intelligences. Cool. Which one do you believe in and can you describe it?

I'll wait.

Max Rockatansky
02-04-2014, 08:56 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/education/ed_mi_overview.html

Good stuff and much closer to reality. It's common in Western society to put linear thinking at the top of the pyramid when it comes to placing value on a human being. This isn't true, of course and Gardner's multiple intelligences point this out.

Now to balance things out, here are some white men who can jump:
1. Marc Gasol 2. David Lee
3. Kevin Love
4. Pau Gasol
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chandler Parsons
8. Danillo Gallinari
9. Ricky Rubio
10. Nickola Pekovic

Mister D
02-04-2014, 08:59 PM
Good stuff and much closer to reality. It's common in Western society to put linear thinking at the top of the pyramid when it comes to placing value on a human being. This isn't true, of course and Gardner's multiple intelligences point this out.



I agree with your sentiments but Gardner's theory is lacking.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:01 PM
There ya go. Thank you for finally answering my question and showing some honesty. You don't believe in multiple intelligences. Cool. Which one do you believe in and can you describe it?

I'll wait.

I've been honest from the start and you didn't ask me a question about multiple intelligences. Does it matter what definition I use? If so, why? What difference does it make? Please take your time. Don't repeat yourself.

Max Rockatansky
02-04-2014, 09:03 PM
I agree with your sentiments but Gardner's theory is lacking.

Lacking as in incomplete, probably, but much closer to the truth than saying there is only one intelligence. Idiot Savants like the fictional characters of Rainman or Columbo are examples of people who have unique "intelligent" abilities but are lacking in other areas. A person can be a math genius but not be able to play an instrument yet another person can be a master of the guitar or violin yet not be able to balance their checkbook.

IQ tests are flawed in that they measure based on a cultural norm. It's a good tool, but it's not perfect.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 09:05 PM
Good stuff and much closer to reality. It's common in Western society to put linear thinking at the top of the pyramid when it comes to placing value on a human being. This isn't true, of course and Gardner's multiple intelligences point this out.

Now to balance things out, here are some white men who can jump:
1. Marc Gasol 2. David Lee
3. Kevin Love
4. Pau Gasol
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chandler Parsons
8. Danillo Gallinari
9. Ricky Rubio
10. Nickola Pekovic

Wait a minute ... Marc Gasol can jump?

Bull Shit ... he doesn't need to jump :laugh:

Cigar
02-04-2014, 09:08 PM
Lacking as in incomplete, probably, but much closer to the truth than saying there is only one intelligence. Idiot Savants like the fictional characters of Rainman or Columbo are examples of people who have unique "intelligent" abilities but are lacking in other areas. A person can be a math genius but not be able to play an instrument yet another person can be a master of the guitar or violin yet not be able to balance their checkbook.

IQ tests are flawed in that they measure based on a cultural norm. It's a good tool, but it's not perfect.

No one is Born with Life Experiences ... and Life Experiences plays a part in learning.

Try living with a slow heartbeat in a War Zone ... just try. :grin:

Germanicus
02-04-2014, 09:08 PM
Now to balance things out, here are some white men who can jump:
1. Marc Gasol 2. David Lee
3. Kevin Love
4. Pau Gasol
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chandler Parsons
8. Danillo Gallinari
9. Ricky Rubio
10. Nickola Pekovic

What about Brent Barry?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3toFlRh0_J8

That was the Jordan dunk.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyxkOCGPE4

OI OI OI!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyUf-9ruJi8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q

Dunks are overrated. I prefer a two on one fast break pull up three. With no hint of a celebration on the way back to the other end of the court to set for defense. That is the best.You get three points. But if you miss you just passed up an easy two for your team. Especially if it is a tight game late in the fourth quarter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Ff3s6AYgE


Prior to being signed by the Hawks on March 27, 2000, Barry played eight games with the Sydney Kings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Kings) during the 1999–2000 Australian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) NBL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_League_(Australia)) season.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Barry#cite_note-nbabio-1) In his eight games for the Kings, Barry averaged 7.6 points, 6.3 assists, 4.0 rebounds and 1 steal per game.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Barry#cite_note-2) His best game was on November 13, 2000 in a 99-86 loss against the Cairns Taipans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairns_Taipans) where he scored 20 points, 9 assists, 8 rebounds, 1 steal and 1 block.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Barry
I was not impressed. He was a crappy import. (:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48LiGv-I_jY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fttt3fFTxk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTivxdJW05s

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:10 PM
Lacking as in incomplete, probably, but much closer to the truth than saying there is only one intelligence. Idiot Savants like the fictional characters of Rainman or Columbo are examples of people who have unique "intelligent" abilities but are lacking in other areas. A person can be a math genius but not be able to play an instrument yet another person can be a master of the guitar or violin yet not be able to balance their checkbook.

IQ tests are flawed in that they measure based on a cultural norm. It's a good tool, but it's not perfect.

Lacking as in heavily criticized by his peers. Do any of you actually read this stuff or do you all go on intuition and sentiment?

no one says IQ tests are perfect. Moreover, they have been refined for over a century to address concerns like culture. That is one complaint that falls rather flat considering how well east Asians do on supposedly white tests.

Germanicus
02-04-2014, 09:11 PM
Lacking as in incomplete, probably, but much closer to the truth than saying there is only one intelligence. Idiot Savants like the fictional characters of Rainman or Columbo are examples of people who have unique "intelligent" abilities but are lacking in other areas. A person can be a math genius but not be able to play an instrument yet another person can be a master of the guitar or violin yet not be able to balance their checkbook.

IQ tests are flawed in that they measure based on a cultural norm. It's a good tool, but it's not perfect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vs6R5YZQ3c

This doco is interesting. If you missed it.


In his mind, he says, each positive integer up to 10,000 has its own unique shape, colour, texture and feel. He has described his visual image of 289 as particularly ugly, 333 as particularly attractive, and pi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi) as beautiful. The number 6 apparently has no distinct image yet what he describes as an almost small nothingness, opposite to the number 9 which he calls large, towering, and quite intimidating.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet#cite_note-BlueDay-8)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet#cite_note-brainman-15) In his memoir, Tammet states experiencing a synaesthetic and emotional response for numbers and words.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet


I’m sure these Aussie researchers were plenty miffed when they found that the ten synaesthetes in their study consistently performed so much better than the non-synaesthete control group of forty-eight psychology students in all four of their studies that they were unable to conclude that synaesthesia impaired performance in any real and absolute way. “There are a couple of concerns that may be raised about the data from this study. One is that it appears that our synesthetes have superior memory for everything, and that this is influencing the pattern of results.”

http://incorrectpleasures.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/dont-be-too-impressed-by-that-testing.html

5816


His childhood holds a clue to his unbelievable brain. As a small child he suffered a number of severe seizures which were later diagnosed as epilepsy. Ever since this time he has been able to see the patterns in numbers. While this is rare, there are other cases where individuals have suffered injury to the brain only to emerge with a similar startling talent. Orlando Serrill was just 10 years old when he was hit, hard, on the side of the head by a baseball. Since when, he has been able to recall the day, date and weather of every day since the accident.
http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/danieltammet.html

I am pretty sure this means that we need to throw baseballs at stupid people?

edit- MS is an important cause. Certainly worth a run-a-thon...


Dante's Paradise canto XXXIII lines 133–135 contain the verses:
As the geometer his mind applies
To square the circle, nor for all his wit
Finds the right formula, howe'er he tries


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaring_the_circle

Has anyone tried to circle the square?

edit- circle squarers. Thats pretty good.


Ancient Greece

The first proof of the existence of irrational numbers is usually attributed to a Pythagorean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoreanism) (possibly Hippasus of Metapontum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus)),[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number#cite_note-7) who probably discovered them while identifying sides of the pentagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number


However Zeno found that in fact “[quantities] in general are not discrete collections of units; this is why ratios of incommensurable [quantities] appear….[Q]uantities are, in other words, continuous.”[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number#cite_note-Kline_1990.2C_p.34-11) What this means is that, contrary to the popular conception of the time, there cannot be an indivisible, smallest unit of measure for any quantity. That in fact, these divisions of quantity must necessarily be infinite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity). For example, consider a line segment: this segment can be split in half, that half split in half, the half of the half in half, and so on. This process can continue infinitely, for there is always another half to be split. The more times the segment is halved, the closer the unit of measure comes to zero, but it never reaches exactly zero. This is just what Zeno sought to prove. He sought to prove this by formulating four paradoxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes), which demonstrated the contradictions inherent in the mathematical thought of the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number

Infinity. Two mirrors facing each other blows your mind. Like you you can see your refelction over your shoulder and it goes on for ever repeating your image. Its freaky. My Grendmothers bedroom had two mirrors in facing each other.

I do not think humans can comprehend infinity very well.


4. Now I want to say something about the future. God as we know can foresee the future. This is what makes prophecy possible. We know that the world has a beginning, and it will have an end in this age as the Bible predicts, but the age to come will have no end. So the number of future events counts up to infinity. Now is it possible for God to know everything in the future? Again as explained above this is impossible. One cannot know an infinite amount of things. It is simply an illogical thing to ask from someone like God, even though He is almighty, and I am not trying to limit Him in any way. So God knows the future. How much and how far? Well as much as He chooses or as far He deems necessary.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/god-and-infinity#ixzz2sQ1XrkfH



REPENT SINNERS!! I will square the circle if I must.

(:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9K0B8axdvU

Jesus loves you. (: Hes alright. God loves you too. Repent. Before everybody is doing it. Hurry.

So sayeth the shepherd.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi6tQthPDWc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR0w3YzMIO4

For ever.

edit- Im starting to freak myself out. (:

edit- REPENT! YOU CANNOT SERVE TWO MASTERS!

(: Ok. I might stop now.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:12 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences#Critical_receptio n

For anyone interested.

Ethereal
02-04-2014, 09:13 PM
How is this possible? She belongs to a race of inferior thinkers... :rollseyes:

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:15 PM
How is this possible? She belongs to a race of inferior thinkers... :rollseyes:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Strawman.jpg

The Wash
02-04-2014, 09:18 PM
I've been honest from the start and you didn't ask me a question about multiple intelligences. Does it matter what definition I use? If so, why? What difference does it make? Please take your time. Don't repeat yourself.

Evasion is not a form of intellectual honesty. I asked you a simple set of questions, what is "intelligence" to you, and how is intelligence measured in your studies. You can't define intelligence or tell me what test was used to measure it. I believe that this is because you either don't know or you don't want to admit that they all use different tests and that the theory is then flawed.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 09:20 PM
I am sorry I did not see the post on Black IQ's That is stupid as shit. Hell if was not for my VP's and there organization and intelligence as well as how fast they can research I would be screwed, and they are both very black!

But dude you are finding racism everywhere and I for one think that it has to wear on you, you are kind of filing up with hate!

We have different life experiences ... denying it's existence and it's continued existence, doesn't mean it does not exist.

I have no idea what it is like to walk in a White Man shoes for 50 years, therefore I can't tell you that you have lived a Privileged Life.

But you want to hear something funny ... I just watched a segment of the Chris Hayes show and he played a clip on Bill O'Rieley saying he and his family are self-made and never received any Government Help.

He bragged about growing up in Lovittown Pennsylvania ...

Does Bill not know how Lovittown was built and who built it and that the developers didn't allow Blacks to live there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_Pennsylvania

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: Bill Bill Bill ... really Bill

Cigar
02-04-2014, 09:21 PM
What about Brent Barry?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3toFlRh0_J8

That was the Jordan dunk.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyxkOCGPE4

OI OI OI!

Bad Ass White Dude :wink:

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:24 PM
Evasion is not a form of intellectual honesty. I asked you a simple set of questions, what is "intelligence" to you, and how is intelligence measured in your studies. You can't define intelligence or tell me what test was used to measure it. I believe that this is because you either don't know or you don't want to admit that they all use different tests and that the theory is then flawed.

I'm not evading you. I can easily give you a definition of intelligence. I've told you repeatedly and explicitly that it doesn't matter how ones defines intelligence. IQ scores are what they are and low mean black IQ is not a theory. It is a statistical fact regardless of the specific tests. So now you said something about a flawed theory? What theory is that?

Cigar
02-04-2014, 09:27 PM
... and then there's real science ... :laugh:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V9YMCKp5myI

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:29 PM
... and then there's real science ... :laugh:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V9YMCKp5myI

So don't worry about low black IQ. They don't exist. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

The Wash
02-04-2014, 09:33 PM
I'm not evading you. I can easily give you a definition of intelligence. I've told you repeatedly and explicitly that it doesn't matter how ones defines intelligence. IQ scores are what they are and low mean black IQ is not a theory. It is a statistical fact regardless of the specific tests. So now you said something about a flawed theory? What theory is that?

Then by all means give me your definition. I've only been waiting on it for two days now.

Statistics are funny things. Look at gun control. They create statistics that if you watch MSNBC you'd think we have a huge problem with guns in the US, but we don't. You have to look at the data within the statistics to understand if it is correct.

In this case I want to know if everyone being measured for IQ took the same test. You should know the answer to that, and an intellectually honest person would also understand why that's important. If I drove a Porsche and you drove a Jeep wrangler in a "race" and the Jeep won people would scratch their heads. If I mentioned that the course was off road that makes sense.

Intelligence should be defined. The test that measures it should be the same one no matter where you go and will accurately judge that definition. Once you have that scenario, where everybody is taking the same test then you have a starting point to then look at other factors.

This should be obvious to anyone who wants to discuss the topic with honesty.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 09:42 PM
Lacking as in heavily criticized by his peers. Do any of you actually read this stuff or do you all go on intuition and sentiment?

Name the peers and let's see the criticism. :cool2:

zelmo1234
02-04-2014, 09:45 PM
We have different life experiences ... denying it's existence and it's continued existence, doesn't mean it does not exist.

I have no idea what it is like to walk in a White Man shoes for 50 years, therefore I can't tell you that you have lived a Privileged Life.

But you want to hear something funny ... I just watched a segment of the Chris Hayes show and he played a clip on Bill O'Rieley saying he and his family are self-made and never received any Government Help.

He bragged about growing up in Lovittown Pennsylvania ...

Does Bill not know how Lovittown was built and who built it and that the developers didn't allow Blacks to live there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown,_Pennsylvania

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: Bill Bill Bill ... really Bill

Trust me! I know that racism still exists, I see that with my employee's! However; it is not fair to continue to blame everyone that has any criticism for a black person as being racist!

And I will admit that I have no clue what it is like to walk in your shoes, though I highly doubt that you could have been any poorer than I was growing up as a child. And young adult.

And I was full of hate toward those that had it better then me, and I blamed them for the fact that I was not a success.

By the Grace of God and a person that saw something in me that was very hidden to most. I was able to give that up!

And now the sky is the limit!

So forgive me if I take offense to being called racist all the time just because I do not agree with policy! It gets very tiring, and if we can't turn things back around, and it keeps getting worse? Well then we are going back to the 60's instead of ahead.

The Wash
02-04-2014, 09:46 PM
I have criticism for black people. I have criticism for white people. What is the emotion behind that criticism?

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:51 PM
Then by all means give me your definition. I've only been waiting on it for two days now.

Why? Unless your goal is to challenge the validity of IQ tests what difference does it make?


Statistics are funny things. Look at gun control. They create statistics that if you watch MSNBC you'd think we have a huge problem with guns in the US, but we don't. You have to look at the data within the statistics to understand if it is correct.

unfortunately, this pattern repeats itself with regularity regardless of the specific test used. Are you aware of a consistent pattern of higher mean black IQ? I'm not.


In this case I want to know if everyone being measured for IQ took the same test. You should know the answer to that, and an intellectually honest person would also understand why that's important. If I drove a Porsche and you drove a Jeep wrangler in a "race" and the Jeep won people would scratch their heads. If I mentioned that the course was off road that makes sense.

Intelligence should be defined. The test that measures it should be the same one no matter were you go and will accurately judge that definition. Once you have that scenario, where everybody is taking the same test then you have a starting point to then look at other factors.

This should be obvious to anyone who wants to discuss the topic with honesty.

First of all, the definition matters not. blacks score low regardless. Secondly, do you really believe researchers are this unscientific and unethical? Really? Sheesh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests

These are some current tests. no, they don't compare someone who took test A with someone who took test C.

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:52 PM
Name the peers and let's see the criticism. :cool2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences#Critical_receptio n

Start here. :afro:

Cigar
02-04-2014, 09:56 PM
I got an idea ... let's arrange a test ... for The Wash, Mister D and Cigar

I'm game ... are you?

http://www.iq-testing-online.com/

Mister D
02-04-2014, 09:59 PM
I got an idea ... let's arrange a test ... for The Wash, Mister D and Cigar

I'm game ... are you?

http://www.iq-testing-online.com/

:smiley_ROFLMAO:You are so insecure

The Xl
02-04-2014, 10:00 PM
Good stuff and much closer to reality. It's common in Western society to put linear thinking at the top of the pyramid when it comes to placing value on a human being. This isn't true, of course and Gardner's multiple intelligences point this out.

Now to balance things out, here are some white men who can jump:
1. Marc Gasol 2. David Lee
3. Kevin Love
4. Pau Gasol
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chandler Parsons
8. Danillo Gallinari
9. Ricky Rubio
10. Nickola Pekovic

The bolded are good to great players, but they can't jump for shit, if you're being literal. Miles Plumley is a great white jumper in the NBA.

If we're talking about great white basketball players in general though, no list is complete without Steve Nash.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Trust me! I know that racism still exists, I see that with my employee's! However; it is not fair to continue to blame everyone that has any criticism for a black person as being racist!

And I will admit that I have no clue what it is like to walk in your shoes, though I highly doubt that you could have been any poorer than I was growing up as a child. And young adult.

And I was full of hate toward those that had it better then me, and I blamed them for the fact that I was not a success.

By the Grace of God and a person that saw something in me that was very hidden to most. I was able to give that up!

And now the sky is the limit!

So forgive me if I take offense to being called racist all the time just because I do not agree with policy! It gets very tiring, and if we can't turn things back around, and it keeps getting worse? Well then we are going back to the 60's instead of ahead.

You are confusing "Blame" with "Acknowledgment" ... they are not the same. I don't blame anyone, I don't need to. I'm a Black Man living in the present day 2014 ... trust me, I don't experience Overt or Covert direct Racism ... I won't stand for it, and if anyone tries that shit with me, they get direct feedback and it's corrected immediately, because I don't allow myself to be directly disrespected.

This is how you educate and end racism ... you simply don't allow it to happen to you personally. The more you take it that way, the better we're all going to be.

Cigar
02-04-2014, 10:05 PM
:smiley_ROFLMAO:You are so insecure

You'd never say that if you met me in person :grin:

The Wash
02-04-2014, 10:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences#Critical_receptio n

Start here. :afro:

Game on then. Your own wiki describes 3 people critiquing him and another guy that not only critiques him but his predecessors who you agree with. Did you read your own wiki and their "critique"?

Their criticism of him is mine of yours, where's the definition and that everyone can define intelligence differently and that he didn't create a test when he came up with his theory. Wow. That's some serious criticism right there.

Akula
02-04-2014, 11:16 PM
Not necessarily, but blacks were selectively bred in the past and the poorest and lowest IQ'd currently breed at a high rate, which will obviously lower their overall IQ.

negroes in america have average IQ of 80-85.
sub saharan africans have an average IQ of 70-75.

Many negroes in america have white admixture and it could be argued that the rise in IQ is "hybrid vigor" and artificially high. As someone else pointed out, the highs and lows always eventually return to the mean, which has been established already.

The average for the world is around 90.

National average IQs range from 107 for Hong Kong to 59 for Equatorial Guinea.

An average IQ of 90 is basically the threshold for a 1st world, technological economy and a civilized society.
Choose any source you want and look at the IQ of the world and look at which nations are advanced and which aren't. See if you notice a pattern.

Then look at the 10 most dangerous cities in america.
*Hint* What do these cities crime rates/criminals have in common with each other?...but "disproportionate criminality" is another topic. Maybe another day.

Codename Section
02-04-2014, 11:19 PM
The 10 most dangerous cities are densely populated, have inflicted gun control on the population, and are run by progressives. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Took a genius to put those facts together.

Akula
02-04-2014, 11:48 PM
Then by all means give me your definition. I've only been waiting on it for two days now.

Statistics are funny things. Look at gun control. They create statistics that if you watch MSNBC you'd think we have a huge problem with guns in the US, but we don't. You have to look at the data within the statistics to understand if it is correct.

In this case I want to know if everyone being measured for IQ took the same test. You should know the answer to that, and an intellectually honest person would also understand why that's important. If I drove a Porsche and you drove a Jeep wrangler in a "race" and the Jeep won people would scratch their heads. If I mentioned that the course was off road that makes sense.

Intelligence should be defined. The test that measures it should be the same one no matter where you go and will accurately judge that definition. Once you have that scenario, where everybody is taking the same test then you have a starting point to then look at other factors.

This should be obvious to anyone who wants to discuss the topic with honesty.

Because I can't name the specific test that gave results that are acknowledged and accepted worldwide doesn't mean the result is invalid and the entire world, (except you), are wrong.

You pretend not being able to understand the results (that the rest of the world accept) and refuse to consider anything further. That's fine, Ignore it all you like. It doesn't change the facts.

I'm not a psychologist and didn't know the precise answer either, so I did what you should have done instead of complaining. Research it.

There is what's called the "non-verbal Raven's Progressive Matrices", which were designed to be used across cultures, even by illiterates.

There's the Wechsler exam.

There's the Binet-Simon which apparently is the basis for modern tests.

LAter, Alfred Binet's test was brought to the United States by Henry Goddard. There, the formula was revised by Lewis Terman, and a new scoring system was developed. With this scoring system, a person's IQ test score will be judged against the performance of people of the same age.
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/1109935

Google any of the other terms or concepts you don't understand. I just grabbed the above source at random.
When you get up to speed, come back and join the conversation.

Akula
02-05-2014, 12:01 AM
Their happened to be more poor blacks in America than whites, so it's going to drop their overall IQ more.



All poor people have low IQ?
Only poor black people have low IQ?
All poor black people have low IQ?

What are you saying exactly?

Akula
02-05-2014, 12:03 AM
The 10 most dangerous cities are densely populated, have inflicted gun control on the population, and are run by progressives. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Took a genius to put those facts together.

Very good. Pick one of those cities and let's talk about crime.

Dr. Who
02-05-2014, 12:12 AM
Certainly. Over time, however, the likelihood of that disappears because IQ is not 100% heritible. I do agree that IQ is at least partly heritible which is why I favor a partly genetic explanation.

Although I agree that there is some truth to that, for some unusual reason, there are men who choose women based primarily on looks, and often seek women who are not particularly intelligent as the mothers of their children, since for many men intellectual equality is an anathema. Fortunately many women fake being dumb, but nevertheless, it does not encourage natural selection for intelligence.

Akula
02-05-2014, 12:19 AM
Why would you have t make this about color you racist fuck.

Instead of celebrating a brilliant child and honoring her accomplishments, you are only looking at the color of her skin.

MLK would roll over in his grave. You see you have decided to judge people by the color of their skin, instead of the content or there character!

90% of the time in a discussion if race it brought up, it is you that is trying to make something up!

It really is sad!

I am proud of her, and hope that she achieves all of her hopes and dreams.

I'm highly skeptical of 2, 3 or 4 year old alleged "geniuses". Regardless of race. Somebody has an agenda, I think.

In these cases, obviously race was the only reason this thread was even started. A rare anomaly being presented as if it were the norm.

Dr. Who
02-05-2014, 12:25 AM
You're not asking questions. You're obsfuscating. It's transparent. Mean IQ scores are what they are. I'd have more respect for your response if alternative explanations had been offered. Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Instead you dismissed IQ and intelligence altogether.

Why are you asking me to define intelligence if not in an effort to undermine the validity of IQ? I get it. You don't like the scores so you insist they mean nothing. OK. Agree to disagree. Cool?
I have to disagree somewhat, in that all people being tested are not necessarily coming from the same starting point. Are we testing black children from super affluent neighborhoods against whites from similar neighborhoods? No. Test subjects are taken from variable populations and sometimes specific tests are made on black children raised by whites, without any consideration of the nutritional state of the biological mother during pregnancy. To make a truly honest and equitable study, all of the subjects would have to have a similar socio economic history for several generations. This would eliminate generational lack of nutrition and other factors which affect intelligence and genetic development.

Akula
02-05-2014, 12:32 AM
IQ tests are flawed in that they measure based on a cultural norm. It's a good tool, but it's not perfect.

That's not accurate.
There are tests that are carefully designed to exclude cultural bias, like the one I mentioned earlier, the non-verbal Raven's Progressive Matrices, which are designed to be used across cultures, even by illiterates. (for example, spatial relationship tests based entirely on pictures, memorization of digit sequences, and pure eye-hand reaction time).
These tests also produce results comparable to those of traditional IQ tests.

Also if IQ tests allegedly embody cultural biases of the (largely U.K. and U.S.) creators of the tests, it's odd that populations of East Asian countries, with a variety of very different cultures, all test higher than those of the test makers.

Dr. Who
02-05-2014, 12:36 AM
That's your guess? Do you consider yourself intelligent?

My point is that there are many types of intelligences, but our IQ test have until recently only measured #2 on that list which is why they could never assess very young kids because those tests required some base knowledge of math.

Your genetics, your home, your culture, and your environment determine what you will be good at. Someone good at languages is still intelligent even if they are bad at math. Being good at math doesn't mean you can learn multiple languages or even an additional one. Not being able to learn another language doesn't make you less intelligent just intelligent in a different way. People in nations with 20 different tribal languages including sign language has a different sort of intelligence than someone who's culture places an importance on math and can excel at calculus.

My point is that I don't know if this Asians are smarter than whites, Africans, or African Americans because I don't think intelligence is any one thing like you do. I am the first to say that blacks are not more athletic than whites. It's a different sort of athleticism. You don't see a lot of black swimmers but you see a lot of white ones.

Wash the reason black people are not generally attracted to swimming is because people of African descent have higher body mass (density) than Caucasians and Asians. Therefore it consumes far more energy to remain afloat. Three men of the same apparent size, black, white and yellow - the black man will be heavier, with denser bones than the other two, with the Asian having the lightest body mass.

Dr. Who
02-05-2014, 12:52 AM
I've been honest from the start and you didn't ask me a question about multiple intelligences. Does it matter what definition I use? If so, why? What difference does it make? Please take your time. Don't repeat yourself.

Wash is right, most intelligence tests don't test a sufficiently broad spectrum of attributes. They primarily test math and linguistics. It explains why many people who test as genius are completely incapable of applying what they have learned in a practical way. There are many forms of intelligence, but the best forms are equally distributed across the spectrum. A high load in one area that is artificially given higher importance than the rest, leads to a false conclusion. What you may have is an idiot savant rather than someone who is functionally intelligent.

Akula
02-05-2014, 01:09 AM
Wash is right, most intelligence tests don't test a sufficiently broad spectrum of attributes. They primarily test math and linguistics. It explains why many people who test as genius are completely incapable of applying what they have learned in a practical way. There are many forms of intelligence, but the best forms are equally distributed across the spectrum. A high load in one area that is artificially given higher importance than the rest, leads to a false conclusion. What you may have is an idiot savant rather than someone who is functionally intelligent.

That's already been disproven several pages back.
See; Ravens Progressive Matrices, for example.

If you googled any question and included the term "IQ" and read any of it, you wouldn't have made this post.
Here...start with these.



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Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 06:16 AM
Thanks for links, Akula. IQ tests are important and are, as noted previously good tools. However, as also noted previously, they aren't perfect. A music genius for whom English is a second language may not do better, and may even do worse, than a C-average student fluent in English and the American culture.

The tests used are great for placement and a homogenous group of students, but they are not completely accurate pictures of the intelligence of individual students.

Akula
02-05-2014, 06:58 AM
Thanks for links, Akula. IQ tests are important and are, as noted previously good tools. However, as also noted previously, they aren't perfect. A music genius for whom English is a second language may not do better, and may even do worse, than a C-average student fluent in English and the American culture.

The tests used are great for placement and a homogenous group of students, but they are not completely accurate pictures of the intelligence of individual students.


EDIT: I just noticed you are trying to use language as a reason the tests aren't valid..really? You think they give the tests to africans in english and that's why they have borderline retarded IQ levels? You think the tests aren't adjusted for language? We've already proven there are tests for the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of eliminating cultural bias. Again...go look up Ravens Progressive Matrices and read it yourself.


...and this is from wiki. Even THEY can't wriggle out of the fact that IQ is a valid way of measuring...
Raven's Progressive Matrices

Because of their independence of language and reading and writing skills, and the simplicity of their use and interpretation, they quickly found widespread practical application. For example, all entrants to the British armed forces from 1942 onwards took a twenty minute version of the SPM. (Standard Progressive MAtrices)The routine administration of what became the Standard Progressive Matrices to all entrants (conscripts) to many military services throughout the world (including the Soviet Union) continued at least until the present century.


Nothing on earth is "perfect", but IQ testing has been used and accepted worldwide as a good measure of intelligence.
There will ALWAYS be SOME variants and anomalies but those don't mean the whole thing is invalid.
If you personally refuse to accept facts that the rest of the world acknowledge as accurate, that's your prerogative.

You don't believe IQ is real and the proponents of using it as a basis for evaluating and comparing chronological age with mental age are all frauds.

Your position is that The U.S. government is wrong, businesses (worldwide) who use it in hiring are wrong, governments (worldwide) are all wrong, the military is wrong. Anyone, anywhere who accepts IQ results as a means of establishing intelligence is wrong.
Only the naysayers are right...they have no evidence but they just "feel" it isn't right...
Ok..that's reasonable. :huh:

Well, it doesn't matter anyway. You have your belief and I'd never convince you otherwise if I linked every site on the web and every study ever done.


Intelligence Testing

1 Take a standardized test administered by a professional. You have to make an appointment to see a psychologist or a school counselor qualified to administer and interpret the test. As of 2008, the most widely accepted test was the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, according to socialsecurity.gov/disability.
2 Measure verbal intelligence with the WAIS verbal scales. According to career-and-test.com, these measurements include English vocabulary, comprehension, general knowledge and common sense, and simple arithmetic. Also measured is spatial intelligence, the ability to visualize and understand concepts. Finally, this part of the WAIS includes a measurement of memory, sometimes called "digit span." The subject memorizes a list of numbers and repeats them. This element also measures attention and concentration
3 Measure non-verbal intelligence with WAIS performance scales. These include completing pictures, arranging pictures so they tell a story, creating block designs according to patterns, matching shapes or sets of numbers and assembling puzzles. Puzzles are another measure of visual spatial aptitude. Performance scales also include matrix reasoning and symbol search. Some portions of WAIS testing are measured for speed and some are not.
4 For children and adolescents, there is only about a 50 percent correlation between intelligence and grades in school, so grades are not a good measurement. Intelligence usually doesn't change significantly after the age of 16. The Stanford-Binet test is appropriate for ages 2 1/2 to young adult. There are other standardized tests for children or illiterate people such as the Ravens Matrices. According to minddisorders.com, the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children is most appropriate for people 16 and 17.
5 Another way to test for intelligence is to apply to join a high-IQ group that offers its own tests. The oldest and largest of these is Mensa, whose activities are described at us.mensa.org. Tests are also offered by the International High IQ Society, highiqsociety.org.

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 08:56 AM
EDIT: I just noticed you are trying to use language as a reason the tests aren't valid..really?

No. I think you are reading into my post for reasons of your own. Please relax, take a deep breath and then read this again:

Thanks for links, Akula. IQ tests are important and are, as noted previously good tools. However, as also noted previously, they aren't perfect. A music genius for whom English is a second language may not do better, and may even do worse, than a C-average student fluent in English and the American culture.

The tests used are great for placement and a homogenous group of students, but they are not completely accurate pictures of the intelligence of individual students.

Akula
02-05-2014, 09:03 AM
No. I think you are reading into my post for reasons of your own. Please relax, take a deep breath and then read this again:

Thanks for links, Akula. IQ tests are important and are, as noted previously good tools. However, as also noted previously, they aren't perfect. A music genius for whom English is a second language may not do better, and may even do worse, than a C-average student fluent in English and the American culture.

The tests used are great for placement and a homogenous group of students, but they are not completely accurate pictures of the intelligence of individual students.

I see all that.. I see you set up an imaginary scenario using language differences as your criteria for saying the tests aren't accurate.
We already established that the tests aren't culturally biased.

Cigar
02-05-2014, 09:08 AM
I had no idea we had so many Mensa Members, IQ Experts and Cultural Doctorates on this Forum .... :shocked:

Akula
02-05-2014, 09:12 AM
I had no idea we had so many Mensa Members, IQ Experts and Cultural Doctorates on this Forum .... :shocked:

Your first four words are hard truth. All the rest is typical hyperbole and sarcasm and a dodge to try to change the subject to avoid inconvenient facts.

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 09:14 AM
I see all that.. I see you set up an imaginary scenario using language differences as your criteria for saying the tests aren't accurate.
We already established that the tests aren't culturally biased.
1. It's not imaginary.

2. It's an example, not just a "scenario".

Are you asserting that IQ tests are 100% accurate in all circumstances? Yes or no, please.

nic34
02-05-2014, 09:16 AM
I had no idea we had so many Mensa Members, IQ Experts and Cultural Doctorates on this Forum .... :shocked:

Fascinating, the obsession some have about this topic....

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:19 AM
I have to disagree somewhat, in that all people being tested are not necessarily coming from the same starting point. Are we testing black children from super affluent neighborhoods against whites from similar neighborhoods? No. Test subjects are taken from variable populations and sometimes specific tests are made on black children raised by whites, without any consideration of the nutritional state of the biological mother during pregnancy. To make a truly honest and equitable study, all of the subjects would have to have a similar socio economic history for several generations. This would eliminate generational lack of nutrition and other factors which affect intelligence and genetic development.




Who, these criticisms of IQ tests, such as cultural bias and socio-economic issues, are probably as old as you are if not older. Seriously, it's getting very long in tooth. Intelligence testing has been constantly refined for over a century now. No, they are not comparing affluent whites with inner city blacks. No researcher would do so for obvious reasons. Seriously, do you think these issues weren't addressed decades ago? You don't think this sort of thing is controlled for? As for socio-economic status, I'm going to supply you a link to the APA's "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns". It's a little dated (1996) but was published in the wake of all the bed wetting after the Bell Curve.

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/siegle/research/correlation/intelligence.pdf



Several considerations suggest that this cannot be the whole explanation. For one thing, the Black/White differential in test scores is not eliminated when groups or individuals are matched for SES (Loehlin et al., 1975). Moreover, the data reviewed in Section 4 suggest that-if we exclude extreme conditions-nutrition and other biological factors that may vary with SES account for relatively little of the variance in such scores.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:21 AM
Fascinating, the obsession some have about this topic....

You mean like the black guy who created the thread? :laugh: Oh nic you really make a fool of yourself sometimes.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:23 AM
I had no idea we had so many Mensa Members, IQ Experts and Cultural Doctorates on this Forum .... :shocked:

Considering mean black IQ I'm not surprised we all seem like geniuses to you. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:25 AM
EDIT: I just noticed you are trying to use language as a reason the tests aren't valid..really? You think they give the tests to africans in english and that's why they have borderline retarded IQ levels? You think the tests aren't adjusted for language? We've already proven there are tests for the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of eliminating cultural bias. Again...go look up Ravens Progressive Matrices and read it yourself.


...and this is from wiki. Even THEY can't wriggle out of the fact that IQ is a valid way of measuring...
Raven's Progressive Matrices

Because of their independence of language and reading and writing skills, and the simplicity of their use and interpretation, they quickly found widespread practical application. For example, all entrants to the British armed forces from 1942 onwards took a twenty minute version of the SPM. (Standard Progressive MAtrices)The routine administration of what became the Standard Progressive Matrices to all entrants (conscripts) to many military services throughout the world (including the Soviet Union) continued at least until the present century.


Nothing on earth is "perfect", but IQ testing has been used and accepted worldwide as a good measure of intelligence.
There will ALWAYS be SOME variants and anomalies but those don't mean the whole thing is invalid.
If you personally refuse to accept facts that the rest of the world acknowledge as accurate, that's your prerogative.

You don't believe IQ is real and the proponents of using it as a basis for evaluating and comparing chronological age with mental age are all frauds.

Your position is that The U.S. government is wrong, businesses (worldwide) who use it in hiring are wrong, governments (worldwide) are all wrong, the military is wrong. Anyone, anywhere who accepts IQ results as a means of establishing intelligence is wrong.
Only the naysayers are right...they have no evidence but they just "feel" it isn't right...
Ok..that's reasonable. :huh:

Well, it doesn't matter anyway. You have your belief and I'd never convince you otherwise if I linked every site on the web and every study ever done.


Intelligence Testing

1 Take a standardized test administered by a professional. You have to make an appointment to see a psychologist or a school counselor qualified to administer and interpret the test. As of 2008, the most widely accepted test was the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, according to socialsecurity.gov/disability.
2 Measure verbal intelligence with the WAIS verbal scales. According to career-and-test.com, these measurements include English vocabulary, comprehension, general knowledge and common sense, and simple arithmetic. Also measured is spatial intelligence, the ability to visualize and understand concepts. Finally, this part of the WAIS includes a measurement of memory, sometimes called "digit span." The subject memorizes a list of numbers and repeats them. This element also measures attention and concentration
3 Measure non-verbal intelligence with WAIS performance scales. These include completing pictures, arranging pictures so they tell a story, creating block designs according to patterns, matching shapes or sets of numbers and assembling puzzles. Puzzles are another measure of visual spatial aptitude. Performance scales also include matrix reasoning and symbol search. Some portions of WAIS testing are measured for speed and some are not.
4 For children and adolescents, there is only about a 50 percent correlation between intelligence and grades in school, so grades are not a good measurement. Intelligence usually doesn't change significantly after the age of 16. The Stanford-Binet test is appropriate for ages 2 1/2 to young adult. There are other standardized tests for children or illiterate people such as the Ravens Matrices. According to minddisorders.com, the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children is most appropriate for people 16 and 17.
5 Another way to test for intelligence is to apply to join a high-IQ group that offers its own tests. The oldest and largest of these is Mensa, whose activities are described at us.mensa.org. Tests are also offered by the International High IQ Society, highiqsociety.org.



Incredible, no? They are supposedly unreliable and don't accurately measure anything but businesses and state agencies across the world use them regularly. Yeah...

Akula
02-05-2014, 09:29 AM
1. It's not imaginary.

2. It's an example, not just a "scenario".

Are you asserting that IQ tests are 100% accurate in all circumstances? Yes or no, please.

You invented a scenario that used english as the standard and then went on to imagine that a fictional person who is good in music but doesn't speak english won't do well on a test in the english language...etc....etc... You mean that of you had to take a test written in chinese you wouldn't do well?...Imagine that!

As has been demonstrated pages ago, the tests are tailored to each nation and not culturally biased.

As to point number 3; Really? What do you mean by "accurate in all circumstances"?

The circumstances I'm talking about are the fact that IQ tests are accepted worldwide in business, government and the armed forces.
It gives a score derived from a set of standardized tests that were developed with the purpose of measuring a person's cognitive abilities ("intelligence") in relation to their age group.
It is expressed as a number normalized so that the average IQ in an age group is 100 — in other words an individual scoring 115 is above-average when compared to similarly aged people.

I'll not run in circles any more repeating things that have been proven pages ago. The information is out there. You can deny it, but you can't debunk it.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:33 AM
You invented a scenario that used english as the standard and then went on to imagine that a fictional person who is good in music but doesn't speak english won't do well on a test in the english language...etc....etc... You mean that of you had to take a test written in chinese you wouldn't do well?...Imagine that!

As has been demonstrated pages ago, the tests are tailored to each nation and not culturally biased.

As to point number 3; Really? What do you mean by "accurate in all circumstances"?

The circumstances I'm talking about are the fact that IQ tests are accepted worldwide in business, government and the armed forces.
It gives a score derived from a set of standardized tests that were developed with the purpose of measuring a person's cognitive abilities ("intelligence") in relation to their age group.
It is expressed as a number normalized so that the average IQ in an age group is 100 — in other words an individual scoring 115 is above-average when compared to similarly aged people.

I'll not run in circles any more repeating things that have been proven pages ago. The information is out there. You can deny it, but you can't debunk it.

Cultural bias is one of the oldest criticisms and testing has been refined many times over to address it.

It's funny how east Asians do so well on supposedly white tests.

Akula
02-05-2014, 09:35 AM
Incredible, no? They are supposedly unreliable and don't accurately measure anything but businesses and state agencies across the world use them regularly. Yeah...

Situational "intelligence" is continuously variable.

They say there is no such thing as "race", too, when it's convenient for their argument...but don't try to do away with race based hiring/admissions practices...

The "protected class" suddenly remembers that there are different races in the world and they are the most "disadvantaged" of them all and "deserve" special treatment....LMAO

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 09:43 AM
Cultural bias is one of the oldest criticisms and testing has been refined many times over to address it.

It's funny how east Asians do so well on supposedly white tests.

East Asians fresh off the boat or East Asians born and raised in the USA?

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 09:44 AM
You invented a scenario that used english as the standard and then went on to imagine that a fictional person who is good in music but doesn't speak english won't do well on a test in the english language...etc....etc... You mean that of you had to take a test written in chinese you wouldn't do well?...Imagine that!

Now you're beginning to understand the limits of the tests. Thanks for that small admission.

Akula
02-05-2014, 09:50 AM
Now you're beginning to understand the limits of the tests. Thanks for that small admission.

Are you saying that IQ tests are given in languages that are not native to the test takers, so therefore IQ isn't a valid test?
Seriously?

We've been over that several times already. Go look up the info yourself and understand how and why the entire world accepts IQ testing as a valid way of measuring intelligence.

You can say "yeah, but..." all you like. I'm not going to continue to repeat things that have already been proven.

nic34
02-05-2014, 09:53 AM
You mean like the black guy who created the thread? :laugh: Oh nic you really make a fool of yourself sometimes.


You mean the black guy that plays you like a fiddle?

:laugh:

Peter1469
02-05-2014, 09:53 AM
At least for me, there has been a almost perfect correlation between tested IQ, and scores on major exams like the ACT, LSAT, and bar exam.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:54 AM
East Asians fresh off the boat or East Asians born and raised in the USA?

Sigh...

East Asians tested "right off the boat" (assuming that actually happens) would be taking tests heavily modified for cultural bias. You realize that's an ancient complaint, right? It's getting very long in tooth.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 09:56 AM
You mean the black guy that plays you like a fiddle?

:laugh:

No, the one that creates these threads for me to completely dominate. Thanks, Cigar! :wink:

Codename Section
02-05-2014, 10:00 AM
Akula don't forget to use links when you cut and paste

Akula
02-05-2014, 10:05 AM
@Akula (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=402) don't forget to use links when you cut and paste

Sure..no problem. Did I overlook something? Where are you talking about, specifically?
I notice you don't want to discuss the topic and can't dispute it but are now looking for incidentals in order to change the subject.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 10:07 AM
Game on then. Your own wiki describes 3 people critiquing him and another guy that not only critiques him but his predecessors who you agree with. Did you read your own wiki and their "critique"?

Their criticism of him is mine of yours, where's the definition and that everyone can define intelligence differently and that he didn't create a test when he came up with his theory. Wow. That's some serious criticism right there.

Game on? You already lost, Wash. Anyway, the article offers a sampling of criticism (at least 6 critics not 3). Obviously, you didn't get passed the first paragraph. No worries. I wasn't expecting you to actually read it.

Secondly, what theory of mine are you criticizing? That blacks have low mean IQ? Again, that is a statistic not a theory. You seem to have some trouble understanding the difference. A theory, for example, would be an explanation of why blacks have low mean IQ.

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 11:08 AM
Sigh...

East Asians tested "right off the boat" (assuming that actually happens) would be taking tests heavily modified for cultural bias. You realize that's an ancient complaint, right? It's getting very long in tooth.

Most overplayed cards are long in the tooth. I'm not talking about some kid from Harlem who talks about "dat, dis and does". That's a problem all by itself. Are you seriously saying that a kid who was raised in such an environment can't be genius?

Another ancient complaint is that blacks just aren't as smart as whites and should only be allowed jobs as maids and janitors.

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 11:11 AM
Sure..no problem. Did I overlook something? Where are you talking about, specifically?
I notice you don't want to discuss the topic and can't dispute it but are now looking for incidentals in order to change the subject.

It's an IQ test. You failed. :D

Mister D
02-05-2014, 11:11 AM
Most overplayed cards are long in the tooth. I'm not talking about some kid from Harlem who talks about "dat, dis and does". That's a problem all by itself. Are you seriously saying that a kid who was raised in such an environment can't be genius?


No. More importantly, how did you get such an impression?


Another ancient complaint is that blacks just aren't as smart as whites and should only be allowed jobs as maids and janitors.

On average, it looks like the former is true but I don't think anyone here suggested anything like the latter.

Akula
02-05-2014, 11:16 AM
It's an IQ test. You failed. :D

Ok...distraction and attempt to change the subject noted...

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 11:24 AM
No. More importantly, how did you get such an impression?

On average, it looks like the former is true but I don't think anyone here suggested anything like the latter.

1. Then what are we talking about?

2. IQ is more than genetics. Factors like education and nutrition affect intelligence. Example; when in Marine PLC training cadets are pretty much ignorant of military ways, tactics, leadership skills and such. They are taught squad level tactics then tested on what they have learned in order to evaluate fitness for further training.

This link details the average IQs of several nations: http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/

Is it really that amazing that IQ scores are lower in the Third World Shitholes and higher in the First World nations? Who here is asserting that the high scores in Hong Kong and South Korea is purely due to genetics as opposed to other factors like culture, nutrition, educational programs and other non-genetic factors?

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 11:26 AM
Ok...distraction and attempt to change the subject noted...

IQ test failure noted.

Thanks for the admission you pulled these numbers out of your ass:


negroes in america have average IQ of 80-85.
sub saharan africans have an average IQ of 70-75.

Many negroes in america have white admixture and it could be argued that the rise in IQ is "hybrid vigor" and artificially high. As someone else pointed out, the highs and lows always eventually return to the mean, which has been established already.

The average for the world is around 90.

National average IQs range from 107 for Hong Kong to 59 for Equatorial Guinea.

An average IQ of 90 is basically the threshold for a 1st world, technological economy and a civilized society.
Choose any source you want and look at the IQ of the world and look at which nations are advanced and which aren't. See if you notice a pattern.

Then look at the 10 most dangerous cities in america.
*Hint* What do these cities crime rates/criminals have in common with each other?...but "disproportionate criminality" is another topic. Maybe another day.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 11:32 AM
1. Then what are we talking about?

2. IQ is more than genetics. Factors like education and nutrition affect intelligence. Example; when in Marine PLC training cadets are pretty much ignorant of military ways, tactics, leadership skills and such. They are taught squad level tactics then tested on what they have learned in order to evaluate fitness for further training.

This link details the average IQs of several nations: http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/

Is it really that amazing that IQ scores are lower in the Third World Shitholes and higher in the First World nations? Who here is asserting that the high scores in Hong Kong and South Korea is purely due to genetics as opposed to other factors like culture, nutrition, educational programs and other non-genetic factors?

Wait...you brought it up. You tell me why you said it. No where have I even come close to suggesting such a thing. In fact, I've made several statements to the contrary.

Yes, we all know IQ is more than genetics.

It seems like my opponents here either impute beliefs/positions to me that I do not hold and/or insist on reminding me of what I already know.

The Sage of Main Street
02-05-2014, 11:38 AM
There ya go. Thank you for finally answering my question and showing some honesty. You don't believe in multiple intelligences. Cool. Which one do you believe in and can you describe it?

I'll wait.

A High IQ has to be really sensitive to the openly illogical (such as the Newspeak usage of they with a singular antecedent), to things that don't add up, such as Enron's financial statements, or to accepting shallow explanations, such as Lincoln having a social conscience, because "Republicans were different back then." However, if High IQs are intimidated by what the self-appointed experts tell them to think, they will be as dumb as the mind slaves.

Max Rockatansky
02-05-2014, 11:41 AM
Wait...you brought it up. You tell me why you said it. No where have I even come close to suggesting such a thing. In fact, I've made several statements to the contrary.

Yes, we all know IQ is more than genetics.

Then we are agreed.

Now that we've agreed on this, we can move on to testing IQ of American children. If IQ is more than genetics, which we currently have little control over, then what factors affecting IQ can we change in order to maximize the abilities of American school kids for the betterment of the nation?

Akula
02-05-2014, 11:45 AM
IQ test failure noted.

Thanks for the admission you pulled these numbers out of your ass:

LMAO...Really?..That's it?

The entire post are my own words. There's no "source" to cite.
The numbers hold up and if you notice, earlier I suggested readers enter the terms and do a search for themselves. The numbers are correct.
Go look for yourself.
Just saying "nuh uh", and tossing in a few snarky comments doesn't refute anything.

Ethereal
02-05-2014, 11:46 AM
Very good. Pick one of those cities and let's talk about crime.

Crime is caused by poverty, and poverty is caused by Democrats. C'mon people, it's not that hard!

Ethereal
02-05-2014, 11:48 AM
I have to disagree somewhat, in that all people being tested are not necessarily coming from the same starting point. Are we testing black children from super affluent neighborhoods against whites from similar neighborhoods? No. Test subjects are taken from variable populations and sometimes specific tests are made on black children raised by whites, without any consideration of the nutritional state of the biological mother during pregnancy. To make a truly honest and equitable study, all of the subjects would have to have a similar socio economic history for several generations. This would eliminate generational lack of nutrition and other factors which affect intelligence and genetic development.

Science, so refreshing!

:azn:

Ethereal
02-05-2014, 11:50 AM
Wash is right, most intelligence tests don't test a sufficiently broad spectrum of attributes. They primarily test math and linguistics. It explains why many people who test as genius are completely incapable of applying what they have learned in a practical way. There are many forms of intelligence, but the best forms are equally distributed across the spectrum. A high load in one area that is artificially given higher importance than the rest, leads to a false conclusion. What you may have is an idiot savant rather than someone who is functionally intelligent.

And the hits just keep on coming!

:grin:

Mister D
02-05-2014, 11:58 AM
Science, so refreshing!

:azn:

Where exactly was the science? Is this what you've been reduced to, devil dog? :smiley_ROFLMAO:Still smarting from the thorough bitch slapping you received the other day? No wonder you couldn't do much but catch bullets for a living.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 11:59 AM
And the hits just keep on coming!

:grin:

I'll let you know when you land one. Of course you're a little gun shy now so you don't even try. :wink:

Akula
02-05-2014, 12:16 PM
Wait...you brought it up. You tell me why you said it. No where have I even come close to suggesting such a thing. In fact, I've made several statements to the contrary.

Yes, we all know IQ is more than genetics.

It seems like my opponents here either impute beliefs/positions to me that I do not hold and/or insist on reminding me of what I already know.

It's just to distract attention away from the topic because they can't refute the facts.

The Wash
02-05-2014, 12:21 PM
Game on? You already lost, Wash. Anyway, the article offers a sampling of criticism (at least 6 critics not 3). Obviously, you didn't get passed the first paragraph. No worries. I wasn't expecting you to actually read it.

Secondly, what theory of mine are you criticizing? That blacks have low mean IQ? Again, that is a statistic not a theory. You seem to have some trouble understanding the difference. A theory, for example, would be an explanation of why blacks have low mean IQ.

I'm not the one who you have to chase and pin down to get a response.

For your edification: http://stat.fsu.edu/undergrad/statinf2.php


Statistics is the mathematical science involved in the application of quantitative principles to the collection, analysis, and presentation of numerical data. The practice of statistics utilizes data from some population in order to describe it meaningfully, to draw conclusions from it, and make informed decisions. The population may be a community, an organization, a production line, a service counter, or a phenomenon such as the weather. Statisticians determine which quantitative model is correct for a given type of problem and they decide what kinds of data should be collected and examined. Applied statistics concerns the application of the general methodology to particular problems. This often calls for use of the techniques of computer-based data analysis. Some examples of statistical problems are:



Interpretation of evidence linking environmental factors and disease,
Design of experiments to evaluate effectiveness of pharmaceuticals,
Mining data to discover target segments in the population,
Market research to estimate demand for a new product,
Opinion polling in politics,
Estimation of the size of an animal population to aid in establishing regulations for conservation,
Reliability studies for determining warranties,
Improving the quality of a service or manufactured item,
Weather forecasting,
Analysis of errors in scientific experiments, and
Prediction of stock market prices.
Statisticians are key contributors to scientific methodologies. They use their quantitative knowledge to the design data collection schemes, process the data, analyze the data, and interpret the results. Further, statisticians often make critical evaluations on the reliability of data and whether inferences drawn from can be made confidently. They also help to identify misleading abuses of data that may be portraying an inaccurate account of a situation.





Just so we all know what statistics are. Now, from a Charlie Kufs, statistician and author of Stats with Cats: The Domesticated Guide to Statistics, Models, Graphs, and Other Breeds of Data Analysis to explain why it is that without the right factors statistics don't mean shit.

http://statswithcats.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/ten-fatal-flaws-in-data-analysis/


1. Where’s the Beef? In a way, the worst flaw a data analysis can have is no analysis at all. Instead, you get data lists, sorts and queries, and maybe some simple descriptive statistics but nothing that addresses objectives, answers questions, or tells a story. If that’s all you want, that’s fine. But a data report is not a data analysis. Reports provide information; analyses provide knowledge. It’s like with your bank account. Sometimes you just want a quick report of your balance. That information has to be readily available whenever you might need it and both you and the bank have to be working with exactly the same data. If you want to assess patterns in your spending, though, you have to conduct an analysis. Say you want to figure out how much more you’re spending on commuting over the past five years, you’ll have to compile the data and scrub out anomalies, like the cross-country driving you did on vacation, to look for patterns. Analyses involve much more than a glance (http://statswithcats.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/the-five-pursuits-you-meet-in-statistics/). They take time, sometimes, a lot of time. To make sure you’re getting what you need, look beyond the data tables for models, findings, conclusions, and recommendations. If they’re not there, you didn’t get an analysis.
2. Phantom Populations If there were to be a fatal flaw in an analysis, it would probably involve how well the samples represent the population. Sometimes data analysts don’t give enough thought to the populations they want to analyze. They use observations to make inferences to a population that doesn’t exist. Populations must be based on some identifiable commonalities that would meaningfully affect some characteristic. A group of anomalies would not be a population. Opinion polls sometimes suffer from phantom populations. Say you surveyed people wearing red shirts. Could you then generalize to everyone who wears red shirts? Canadian researchers found one such phantom population when they tried to create a control group of men who had not been exposed to pornography (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/relationships/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html). Make sure the population being analyzed is more than an illusion.
3. Wow, Sham Samples Sometimes the population is real and well defined, but the samples don’t represent it adequately. This is a common criticism of opinion polls, especially election polls. It was the reason cited for why exit polls during the presidential election of 2004 indicated that John Kerry won many precincts that ballot counts later awarded to George Bush. Medical and sociological studies may have sham samples because it is often difficult to select subjects to match some target demographic. Likewise, environmental studies can suffer from inconsistencies between soil types or aquifers. To identify sham samples, look for three things: (1) a clear definition of a real population, (2) a description of how samples were selected so that they represent the population, and (3) information about any changes that occurred during sampling, such as subjects being dropped or samples moved.




http://statswithcats.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/ten-fatal-flaws-in-data-analysis/

Like this: For example: http://www.libertariannews.org/2013/08/04/study-finds-3-out-of-4-climate-science-papers-use-flawed-statistical-analysis/


So I'm asking you about the data and how they came up with the statistics you value. You are willing to talk about the results you like but you don't want to talk about how they got them.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 12:34 PM
I'm not the one who you have to chase and pin down to get a response.

For your edification: http://stat.fsu.edu/undergrad/statinf2.php



Just so we all know what statistics are. Now, from a Charlie Kufs, statistician and author of Stats with Cats: The Domesticated Guide to Statistics, Models, Graphs, and Other Breeds of Data Analysis to explain why it is that without the right factors statistics don't mean shit.

http://statswithcats.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/ten-fatal-flaws-in-data-analysis/




http://statswithcats.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/ten-fatal-flaws-in-data-analysis/

Like this: For example: http://www.libertariannews.org/2013/08/04/study-finds-3-out-of-4-climate-science-papers-use-flawed-statistical-analysis/


So I'm asking you about the data and how they came up with the statistics you value. You are willing to talk about the results you like but you don't want to talk about how they got them.

:smiley_ROFLMAO:So your goal here is to undermine the validity of IQ testing, right? Why all the running around? Why the dancing? Why did you deny you were trying to do exactly that?

Good grief...all that for nothing.

So now you understand that I have offered no theory for you to criticize. Good. That's a start.

Now...I'm going to post this again for you...


sit back and relax...


ready...


It does not matter what test is used or how intelligence is defined. This pattern of a relatively low black mean score has been consistently repeated. It's not even controversial. All that is controvesial is the cause of low black IQ.

The Wash
02-05-2014, 12:36 PM
:smiley_ROFLMAO:So your goal here is to undermine the validity of IQ testing, right? Why all the running around? Why the dancing? Why did you deny you were trying to do exactly that?

No. If you were half as intelligent as you want to appear or as honest as you ought to be you'd understand my point and not make assumptions. Also all the rofl icons in the world don't make what you say funny or add emphasis.

I just want a honest discussion. Are you capable of giving me that? Yes or no?

If no, then have a nice day.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 12:41 PM
No. If you were half as intelligent as you want to appear or as honest as you ought to be you'd understand my point and not make assumptions. Also all the rofl icons in the world don't make what you say funny or add emphasis.

I just want a honest discussion. Are you capable of giving me that? Yes or no?

If no, then have a nice day.

What you want is to distract from a certain fact: a consistently repeated pattern of low mean IQ scores for blacks regardless of the test taken or how intelligence is defined.

OK one more time..ready, devil dog?

It does not matter what test is used or how intelligence is defined. This pattern of a relatively low black mean score has been consistently repeated. It's not even controversial. All that is controvesial is the cause of low black IQ.

Do you acknowledge this? Yes or no?

The Wash
02-05-2014, 12:59 PM
What you want is to distract from a certain fact: a consistently repeated pattern of low mean IQ scores for blacks regardless of the test taken or how intelligence is defined.

OK one more time..ready, devil dog?


I realize that you think by borrowing a name we have for each other is going to upset me or make me angry enough to say something stupid, but it won't. I will say that I would appreciate you not ever using it again with me because you didn't earn that right. You didn't sign away your life. You didn't train for years. You didn't go off to war. You didn't see friends get killed and not be able to do anything about it. You didn't watch everything that was young about you die off. You're not one of us and yeh it's amusing to you that we call each other that, but you're not one of us and you don't even know what it means.

So I'm going to ask you politely, as men, to knock it off. I hope you'll be decent enough to do so.



It does not matter what test is used or how intelligence is defined. This pattern of a relatively low black mean score has been consistently repeated. It's not even controversial. All that is controvesial is the cause of low black IQ.

Do you acknowledge this? Yes or no?

Acknowledge means that I accept or reject what you believe is a true or a "fact". I believe your views are based off of flawed statistical analysis and assumptions. I would like to discuss why. That's what I've been trying to do in this thread.

I met some dudes in an airport from Ghana who spoke English, French, and a couple of tribal languages. Our standard tests focus on linear thinking and don't address intelligence in other areas. I think that certain cultures promote different things. I believe the brain is like any other organ and can be trained in a particular direction.

Asian cultures and western cultures place an emphasis on math and science. That's not the only type of intelligence there is.

Akula
02-05-2014, 01:09 PM
Acknowledge means that I accept or reject what you believe is a true or a "fact". I believe your views are based off of flawed statistical analysis and assumptions. I would like to discuss why. That's what I've been trying to do in this thread.

..and you've been presented with page after page after page of explanations of how the tests are administered, why they aren't culturally biased, why they are accepted worldwide as the standard for measuring intelligence, along with links to the studies and definitions of the terms used....but you say you still don't understand, give us anecdotes and "what if" scenarios as if they somehow outweigh decades...hell, generations of studies.
You don't like the results, that's obvious, so therefore they can't be correct. You don't know why..you just "know" they aren't right.

The Wash
02-05-2014, 01:13 PM
..and you've been presented with page after page after page of explanations of how the tests are administered, why they aren't culturally biased, why they are accepted worldwide as the standard for measuring intelligence, along with links to the studies and definitions of the terms used....but you say you still don't understand, give us anecdotes and "what if" scenarios as if they somehow outweigh decades...hell, generations of studies.
You don't like the results, that's obvious, so therefore they can't be correct. You don't know why..you just "know" they aren't right.

Who are you speaking to? I've present page after page of information on this topic that you don't like. Don't speak for me. I have the ability to type words and make myself clear. Ask me a fucking question if you want a response. Don't build a straw man for me and expect me to defend it.

Now, do you have an actual question for me?

The Sage of Main Street
02-05-2014, 01:16 PM
http://abeautifulmind.proboards.com
Fascinating, the obsession some have about this topic....

Akula
02-05-2014, 01:19 PM
Who are you speaking to? I've present page after page of information on this topic that you don't like. Don't speak for me. I have the ability to type words and make myself clear. Ask me a fucking question if you want a response. Don't build a straw man for me and expect me to defend it.

Now, do you have an actual question for me?

hahahaha...very good..more distraction and avoidance.

My question to you is why is the average negro IQ 1 standard deviation lower (or more) than the average white IQ in every test of cognitive reasoning ever invented anywhere?

The Sage of Main Street
02-05-2014, 01:20 PM
Situational "intelligence" is continuously variable.

They say there is no such thing as "race", too, when it's convenient for their argument...but don't try to do away with race based hiring/admissions practices...

The "protected class" suddenly remembers that there are different races in the world and they are the most "disadvantaged" of them all and "deserve" special treatment....LMAO

The simians want us to believe that species don't exist either.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 01:20 PM
hahahaha...very good..more distraction and avoidance.

My question to you is why is the average negro IQ 1 standard deviation lower (or more) than the average white IQ in every test of cognitive reasoning ever invented anywhere?

Exactly. It's not like someoen is pointing to a specific test at a specific time. It's the pattern for virtually all testing.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 01:23 PM
I realize that you think by borrowing a name we have for each other is going to upset me or make me angry enough to say something stupid, but it won't. I will say that I would appreciate you not ever using it again with me because you didn't earn that right. You didn't sign away your life. You didn't train for years. You didn't go off to war. You didn't see friends get killed and not be able to do anything about it. You didn't watch everything that was young about you die off. You're not one of us and yeh it's amusing to you that we call each other that, but you're not one of us and you don't even know what it means.

So I'm going to ask you politely, as men, to knock it off. I hope you'll be decent enough to do so.



Acknowledge means that I accept or reject what you believe is a true or a "fact". I believe your views are based off of flawed statistical analysis and assumptions. I would like to discuss why. That's what I've been trying to do in this thread.

I met some dudes in an airport from Ghana who spoke English, French, and a couple of tribal languages. Our standard tests focus on linear thinking and don't address intelligence in other areas. I think that certain cultures promote different things. I believe the brain is like any other organ and can be trained in a particular direction.

Asian cultures and western cultures place an emphasis on math and science. That's not the only type of intelligence there is.

That's nice, devil dog. I really don't care about your fraternity.

In order to believe that my "views are based off of flawed statistical analysis and assumptions" you wuold have to argue that in fact black scores are not on average lower than white scores. Do you believe that?

Please spare us your anecdotes.

The Wash
02-05-2014, 01:35 PM
That's nice, devil dog. I really don't care about your fraternity.

In order to believe that my "views are based off of flawed statistical analysis and assumptions" you wuold have to argue that in fact black scores are not on average lower than white scores. Do you believe that?

Please spare us your anecdotes.

You don't care about integrity, either. That's good to know. Changes how I will act in the future. Your attitude towards me on this and any other race thread has been purely assumption on your part without ever once trying to have a conversation with me until finally things broke down into insults and animosity on your part.

Here's what I think. I think you spend too much time on forums and reading without practical application of what you read. 34,000 posts and a barrage of insults when you are challenged shows me that you're an indoor dude. I think you live your life in fear. I think this attitude you're flinging my way is how you gain some internal victory points, and I guess that's all good. I think if you've had sex with a woman in your life it was probably one time and she laid it on you out of pity so maybe instead of wasting time trying to fake some sort of Internet bravery with me and others you ought to try meeting a female and getting your nut with a vagina instead of a hand.

It's a game-changer, that's for sure.

Akula
02-05-2014, 01:40 PM
You don't care about integrity, either. That's good to know. Changes how I will act in the future. Your attitude towards me on this and any other race thread has been purely assumption on your part without ever once trying to have a conversation with me until finally things broke down into insults and animosity on your part.

Here's what I think. I think you spend too much time on forums and reading without practical application of what you read. 34,000 posts and a barrage of insults when you are challenged shows me that you're an indoor dude. I think you live your life in fear. I think this attitude you're flinging my way is how you gain some internal victory points, and I guess that's all good. I think if you've had sex with a woman in your life it was probably one time and she laid it on you out of pity so maybe instead of wasting time trying to fake some sort of Internet bravery with me and others you ought to try meeting a female and getting your nut with a vagina instead of a hand.

It's a game-changer, that's for sure.

Translation;
After playing dumb, dodging and ducking and calling people names while desperately trying every trick in the junior high school debate manual, I haven't been able to counter one single point you made, so I'm going to completely abandon my position and go off into a fantasy where I get to insinuate and make vulgar assumptions as a way to distract from the fact that I wasn't able to debunk anything you said.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 01:42 PM
You don't care about integrity, either. That's good to know. Changes how I will act in the future. Your attitude towards me on this and any other race thread has been purely assumption on your part without ever once trying to have a conversation with me until finally things broke down into insults and animosity on your part.

Here's what I think. I think you spend too much time on forums and reading without practical application of what you read. 34,000 posts and a barrage of insults when you are challenged shows me that you're an indoor dude. I think you live your life in fear. I think this attitude you're flinging my way is how you gain some internal victory points, and I guess that's all good. I think if you've had sex with a woman in your life it was probably one time and she laid it on you out of pity so maybe instead of wasting time trying to fake some sort of Internet bravery with me and others you ought to try meeting a female and getting your nut with a vagina instead of a hand.

It's a game-changer, that's for sure.


https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4112714496/h71795CB0/

Mister D
02-05-2014, 01:47 PM
Translation;
After playing dumb, dodging and ducking and calling people names while desperately trying every trick in the junior high school debate manual, I haven't been able to counter one single point you made, so I'm going to completely abandon my position and go off into a fantasy where I get to insinuate and make vulgar assumptions as a way to distract from the fact that I wasn't able to debunk anything you said.

The obfuscator didn't like that I won't play that game.

The Sage of Main Street
02-05-2014, 01:53 PM
hahahaha...very good..more distraction and avoidance.

My question to you is why is the average negro IQ 1 standard deviation lower (or more) than the average white IQ in every test of cognitive reasoning ever invented anywhere?

America is forced to waste money on the hopeless project of educating the Low-IQ races instead of spending that money on paying students for getting high grades. This is like telling a football coach that he should ignore his team and spend all his time trying to improve the athletic skills of the inferior players he had to cut from the team. This insulting mantra of "the talented will find their own way to get ahead" is as destructive as thinking that the players who made the team are talented enough not to need coaching.

The Sage of Main Street
02-05-2014, 02:03 PM
We should ignore this obvious nonsense about racial equality in unbiased IQ tests as a red herring. The real crisis has been caused by the fact that the mentally talented are mistreated from childhood on. If we don't treat them exactly the way the athletically talented are treated, which includes being socially popular, then we deserve being overrun by savages. The Darkies will create the next Dark Ages.

The Wash
02-05-2014, 09:53 PM
The obfuscator didn't like that I won't play that game.

It was your decision to begin with insults and insinuations when people wanted to discuss the topic. It was your decision to build a bunch of straw men instead of answering questions. It was your decision to talk about me instead of to me. It was your decision to bring homoeroticism into intellectual discussions, so you ought to man up and quit acting like a grade A bitch when other people make observations of their own.

Seriously, I'd think with all your bravado in telling other people who they are you wouldn't have to regroup with your less intelligent friend when someone does the same to you. You're calling Cigar my toadie and yet I haven't relied on him for a thing. You're talking shit about my friendship with Code and he aint been on either. It's you that needs people to get out their pom poms and cheer for you, not me.

Man up and get on topic.

Define intelligence and tell me the IQ test which everyone takes which measures it.

Mister D
02-05-2014, 10:32 PM
It was your decision to begin with insults and insinuations when people wanted to discuss the topic. It was your decision to build a bunch of straw men instead of answering questions. It was your decision to talk about me instead of to me. It was your decision to bring homoeroticism into intellectual discussions, so you ought to man up and quit acting like a grade A bitch when other people make observations of their own.

Seriously, I'd think with all your bravado in telling other people who they are you wouldn't have to regroup with your less intelligent friend when someone does the same to you. You're calling Cigar my toadie and yet I haven't relied on him for a thing. You're talking shit about my friendship with Code and he aint been on either. It's you that needs people to get out their pom poms and cheer for you, not me.

Man up and get on topic.

Define intelligence and tell me the IQ test which everyone takes which measures it.


Cigar is your toady but that's a reflection on him not you. not sure why you take it any other way. He's a minstrel act who chases after you because you're a fellow black.

Anyway, sorry, I don't always take it well when my character is repeatedly besmirched (not by you primarily but the atmosphere had been poisoned by several members) because I dare tell an unpleasant truth. I also don't always take it well when people play games. The topic is low mean black IQ. It does not matter what test is in question or how intelligence is defined. There is a consistent pattern of low mean black scores. That is a fact. When you start raising questions about the tests I tried to make it clear that I would accept your incredulity and move on. You simply don't believe IQ tests are an accurate measure of a man's intellect. I said I disagree but I'm fine with that. Agree to disagree, right? You wouldn't do that though. You insisted you weren't trying to question the validity of IQ testing but obviously you were. There is no other reason for your line of questioning. Moreover, I'm not talking about a test but virtually all intelligence testing. The pattern described has been consistently repeated and is utterly uncontroversial. It's not even denied even by those who think the disparity is 100% environmental. The cause of the pattern is a controversial topic.

Last, I genuinely apologize for the devil dog stuff. Codename Section That wasn't cool.

Cigar
02-06-2014, 01:18 PM
It was your decision to begin with insults and insinuations when people wanted to discuss the topic. It was your decision to build a bunch of straw men instead of answering questions. It was your decision to talk about me instead of to me. It was your decision to bring homoeroticism into intellectual discussions, so you ought to man up and quit acting like a grade A bitch when other people make observations of their own.

Seriously, I'd think with all your bravado in telling other people who they are you wouldn't have to regroup with your less intelligent friend when someone does the same to you. You're calling Cigar my toadie and yet I haven't relied on him for a thing. You're talking shit about my friendship with Code and he aint been on either. It's you that needs people to get out their pom poms and cheer for you, not me.

Man up and get on topic.

Define intelligence and tell me the IQ test which everyone takes which measures it.

They go through their periods every week ... :tongue:

Polecat
02-06-2014, 01:47 PM
Have I.Q. tests been improved since the 60s? From what I remember they were more geared towards education level/age group rather than anything else. I think I may have flunked mine.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 02:08 PM
... and then there's real science ... :laugh:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V9YMCKp5myI

Their isn't much, if any, difference between races. Any that exist are easily explained by many variables.

For instance, international whites have a bigger presence in the NBA than American whites, and their best players are much better than the American whites in the game of basketball. The only recent American white that would be classified as a superstar would be Kevin Love. The next tier would be David Lee and guys his caliber, and their aren't many of them. However, international whites have a big presence in the NBA, in fact, 3 of the last 9 MVP awards were won by Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki. Their are also a ton of NBA caliber Europeans playing in the Euroleague and other high level leagues.

So, why are European whites so much better than American whites? Can't be genetics, can it?

The Wash
02-06-2014, 03:03 PM
Cigar is your toady but that's a reflection on him not you. not sure why you take it any other way. He's a minstrel act who chases after you because you're a fellow black.

Or maybe he just sees how cool I am. :afro:


Anyway, sorry, I don't always take it well when my character is repeatedly besmirched (not by you primarily but the atmosphere had been poisoned by several members) because I dare tell an unpleasant truth. I also don't always take it well when people play games. The topic is low mean black IQ. It does not matter what test is in question or how intelligence is defined. There is a consistent pattern of low mean black scores. That is a fact. When you start raising questions about the tests I tried to make it clear that I would accept your incredulity and move on. You simply don't believe IQ tests are an accurate measure of a man's intellect. I said I disagree but I'm fine with that. Agree to disagree, right? You wouldn't do that though. You insisted you weren't trying to question the validity of IQ testing but obviously you were. There is no other reason for your line of questioning. Moreover, I'm not talking about a test but virtually all intelligence testing. The pattern described has been consistently repeated and is utterly uncontroversial. It's not even denied even by those who think the disparity is 100% environmental. The cause of the pattern is a controversial topic.

I never called you a racist because its a meaningless term to me. Everybody is racist in some way by the current definitions, including me.

I don't believe that the intelligence tests I took were a good judge of intelligence and I say that as someone who did score high. They were a lot like the SAT from back in the day. A lot of it was based off of having some prior knowledge and a grasp of math. My objections have nothing to do with defending a "race" because as I've said before African Americans are mutts and there's nothing wrong with that. I like being a mutt.

My issue does stem from spending ten years with officers who did well in school and couldn't find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight. What good is being "intelligent" if you're also stupid? There are people who are by your definition geniuses. White's friend is one of them. She can speak over 20 languages including Chinese and Arabic which kicked my ass super cereal overseas. She was good in school, but Lord help her she'd get lost in a convenience store.

So I don't take it personal if someone says that Group A scores higher than Group B. I just want to know what that really means and why is that "intelligent"?

It's difficult when you're trying to discuss this stuff because it's been done before and people have ideas of what other people are trying to say or get across and that's not necessarily what's going on.




Last, I genuinely apologize for the devil dog stuff. @Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) That wasn't cool.


I appreciate your saying that.

Akula
02-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Their isn't much, if any, difference between races. Any that exist are easily explained by many variables.

For instance, international whites have a bigger presence in the NBA than American whites, and their best players are much better than the American whites in the game of basketball. The only recent American white that would be classified as a superstar would be Kevin Love. The next tier would be David Lee and guys his caliber, and their aren't many of them. However, international whites have a big presence in the NBA, in fact, 3 of the last 9 MVP awards were won by Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki. Their are also a ton of NBA caliber Europeans playing in the Euroleague and other high level leagues.

So, why are European whites so much better than American whites? Can't be genetics, can it?

No offense, but you're thoroughly confused.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 03:16 PM
No offense, but you're thoroughly confused.

No, I don't believe so. Why not elaborate on why you feel that way?

I pointed out a variable that shows the difference in European white players and American white players that is not racial. What's the issue here?

Akula
02-06-2014, 03:36 PM
No, I don't believe so. Why not elaborate on why you feel that way?

I pointed out a variable that shows the difference in European white players and American white players that is not racial. What's the issue here.

There are 22 pages on this thread of supporting reasons why race exists and is real. Genetics, physical difference, race specific diseases...Do some research on your own. I'll never change your mind anyway.

Let me ask you? The government has programs/benefits/laws that benefit one race over another, don't they?
On government forms they ask to specify your "race"
On the u.s. census they require your race.
There are laws that prohibit discriminating based on "RACE", creed, etc..etc...
Negroes are a protected class legally according to the u.s. government.
Now..is the government lying?


Eric Holder said in Feb 2009

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot in things racial, we have always been, and we, I believe, continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said at the Justice Department in Washington, D.C. "Though race-related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion, and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about things racial."

Who was Eric Holder referring to when he gave this comment in March 2011? Who are "his people"?;

"......in those terms I think does a great disservice to people who put their lives on the line, who risked all, for my people"

You better get on the phone to the Justice Dept. and tell eric that race doesn't exist. He'll no doubt be fascinated to learn that.

The Wash
02-06-2014, 03:38 PM
Akula

do you think the XL is secretly Eric Holder? If not, shut up. Let the man speak for himself and Holder for himself.

Akula
02-06-2014, 04:15 PM
@Akula (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=402)

do you think the XL is secretly Eric Holder? If not, shut up. Let the man speak for himself and Holder for himself.

Try to keep up.
Your boy said that race doesn't exist. I had to point out to him that Eric Holder and the rest of the U.S. govt seems to think it does.
Somebody is wrong. Are you saying the govt is wrong and race doesn't exist?

The Wash
02-06-2014, 04:37 PM
Try to keep up.
Your boy said that race doesn't exist. I had to point out to him that Eric Holder and the rest of the U.S. govt seems to think it does.
Somebody is wrong. Are you saying the govt is wrong and race doesn't exist?

Everybody has their own opinion. Let them speak to that.

Akula
02-06-2014, 04:38 PM
Everybody has their own opinion. Let them speak to that.

Is the government wrong about race?

The Wash
02-06-2014, 05:44 PM
Is the government wrong about race?

The government is an entity. Do you mean Eric Holder? I think its pretty fucking gay for Holder to talk about "my people" when his justice department has presided over more marijuana busts on people of color than Bush.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 05:49 PM
There are 22 pages on this thread of supporting reasons why race exists and is real. Genetics, physical difference, race specific diseases...Do some research on your own. I'll never change your mind anyway.

Let me ask you? The government has programs/benefits/laws that benefit one race over another, don't they?
On government forms they ask to specify your "race"
On the u.s. census they require your race.
There are laws that prohibit discriminating based on "RACE", creed, etc..etc...
Negroes are a protected class legally according to the u.s. government.
Now..is the government lying?


Eric Holder said in Feb 2009

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot in things racial, we have always been, and we, I believe, continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said at the Justice Department in Washington, D.C. "Though race-related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion, and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about things racial."

Who was Eric Holder referring to when he gave this comment in March 2011? Who are "his people"?;

"......in those terms I think does a great disservice to people who put their lives on the line, who risked all, for my people"

You better get on the phone to the Justice Dept. and tell eric that race doesn't exist. He'll no doubt be fascinated to learn that.

So, the state, and more specifically, a nimrod like Eric Holder, is the authority on race? The fuck?

For the record, Eric Holder is about as functionally "black" as some of the white supremacists on here.

He's just a dude with his own opinion, nothing more.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 05:50 PM
Is the government wrong about race?

Yes.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 05:51 PM
@Akula (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=402)

do you think the XL is secretly Eric Holder? If not, shut up. Let the man speak for himself and Holder for himself.

Yep, he got me. Well played, I must say.

Akula
02-06-2014, 05:52 PM
Yes.

hahahahaha..ok..Call 1600 Penn. Ave..Ask for Barry.

Tell him that you have decided that affirmative action is an illegal, racist, discriminatory practice and since race doesn't exist, you demand that it be repealed immediately..Tell him to get eric on the phone and get him straightened out on this matter..LMFAO....

The Xl
02-06-2014, 05:53 PM
hahahahaha..ok..Call 1600 Penn. Ave..Ask for Barry.

Tell him that you have decided that affirmative action is an illegal, racist, discriminatory practice and since race doesn't exist, you demand that it be repealed immediately..Tell him to get eric on the phone and get him straightened out on this matter..LMFAO....

What does this mean, exactly? So a bunch of government dolts enact discriminatory policies, on both sides. Okay. Tell me how the makes the case for or against......anything really.

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 05:55 PM
What does this mean, exactly? So a bunch of government dolts enact discriminatory policies, on both sides. Okay. Tell me how the makes the case for or against......anything really.
Psst, they were implying you're a Democrat.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 05:59 PM
Psst, they were implying you're a Democrat.

I have no idea how anyone would infer that from any of my posts, unless they either lacked reading comprehension or were attempting to create a strawman.

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 06:01 PM
I have no idea how anyone would infer that from any of my posts, unless they either lacked reading comprehension or were attempting to create a strawman.
Welcome to my world.

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:02 PM
So, the state, and more specifically, a nimrod like Eric Holder, is the authority on race? The fuck?

For the record, Eric Holder is about as functionally "black" as some of the white supremacists on here.

He's just a dude with his own opinion, nothing more.

We aren't talking about his opinion being the basis for defining race. We're talking about the law of the land.
Do you believe in affirmative action?

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:03 PM
Races, ethnicities, and various groups of people develop traits and skills through a variety of variables. So, in a sense, many things are "genetic" but that is not necessarily racial. Sometimes things also happen by chance, luck, etc. Those traits can be dominant in any race if the group, for whatever reason, makes a concerted effort to make it so/and or above average to exceptional people in that field, whatever it may be, have many offspring.

I think there is more than enough evidence to make that assertion, and the others who dissent really need to refute that in order to be really credible.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:04 PM
We aren't talking about his opinion being the basis for defining race. We're talking about the law of the land.
Do you believe in affirmative action?

No, I do not believe in affirmative action, or the drug war, or any policy that discriminates in any way.

The law of the land is not science or fact. Since when did the state become God?

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 06:04 PM
We aren't talking about his opinion being the basis for defining race. We're talking about the law of the land.
Do you believe in affirmative action?
In this case, the law of the land is redundant if we accept it relies upon a shoddy definition.

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:09 PM
What does this mean, exactly? So a bunch of government dolts enact discriminatory policies, on both sides. Okay. Tell me how the makes the case for or against......anything really.

The U.S. Government specifies practices and policies and penalties to be enforced on citizens based on race. We've been over this and I listed several examples.

But, with a straight face, you say the government is wrong, race doesn't exist and all those programs are fraudulent.
Seriously, kid?

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:12 PM
In this case, the law of the land is redundant if we accept it relies upon a shoddy definition.

nevertheless...the law is enforced.

..so if the govt is wrong and race doesn't exist, do you think all laws that give preference to negroes should immediately be repealed?

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 06:12 PM
The U.S. Government specifies practices and policies and penalties to be enforced on citizens based on race. We've been over this and I listed several examples.

But, with a straight face, you say the government is wrong, race doesn't exist and all those programs are fraudulent.
Seriously, kid?
Wait a minute, so you're now asking us to trust Holder, Obama and the gang because they agree with your own position on the matter?

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 06:13 PM
nevertheless...the law is enforced.

..so if the govt is wrong and race doesn't exist, do you think all laws that give preference to negroes should immediately be repealed?
All discriminatory legislation should be repealed.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:13 PM
The U.S. Government specifies practices and policies and penalties to be enforced on citizens based on race. We've been over this and I listed several examples.

But, with a straight face, you say the government is wrong, race doesn't exist and all those programs are fraudulent.
Seriously, kid?

Are you seriously saying that race exists scientifically because the government says so and creates programs on that basis?

I can't stop laughing right now. Carry on, please. Entertain me.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:14 PM
Wait a minute, so you're now asking us to trust Holder, Obama and the gang because they agree with your own position on the matter?

I can't stop laughing at that post.

The Wash
02-06-2014, 06:16 PM
Laws that give preferences to negroes. Laws that give preferences to negroes. Laws that give preferences to negroes.

Let me mull that one over.

Will we also repeal laws that give preferences to business owners, banks, and corporate entities, or just laws that give preferences to people?

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:16 PM
No, I do not believe in affirmative action, or the drug war, or any policy that discriminates in any way.

The law of the land is not science or fact. Since when did the state become God?

So since race doesn't exist, you're saying it's ok with you that we live in a country with a rogue government arbitrarily making and enforcing laws that are fraudulent?

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:17 PM
Laws that give preferences to negroes. Laws that give preferences to negroes. Laws that give preferences to negroes.

Let me mull that one over.

Will we also repeal laws that give preferences to business owners, banks, and corporate entities, or just laws that give preferences to people?

We need to blow all that discriminatory shit up.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:18 PM
So since race doesn't exist, you're saying it's ok with you that we live in a country with a rogue government arbitrarily making and enforcing laws that are fraudulent?

No, I am not. When did I say I was?

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 06:18 PM
So since race doesn't exist, you're saying it's ok with you that we live in a country with a rogue government arbitrarily making and enforcing laws that are fraudulent?
You were just asking us to trust that government.

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:18 PM
Are you seriously saying that race exists scientifically because the government says so and creates programs on that basis?

I can't stop laughing right now. Carry on, please. Entertain me.

No. You said all that trying to be "clever".

If race doesn't exist, the government is perpetrating a fraud on the people, right?

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:20 PM
No. You said all that trying to be "clever".

If race doesn't exist, the government is perpetrating a fraud on the people, right?
No, I was merely restating your assertion.

It absolutely is, in many different ways.

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:20 PM
I can't stop laughing at that post.

No. I'm saying that the government acknowledges the biological and physical reality that race is real. Enacting laws that specify advantages to one over the other proves that fact.

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:22 PM
No. I'm saying that the government acknowledges the biological and physical reality that race is real. Enacting laws that specify advantages to one over the other proves that fact.

No, it merely asserts that and acts on that assertion. On the surface, anyhow. In reality it's more devious and sinister than that.

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:23 PM
All discriminatory legislation should be repealed.

Of course. But that's not the way things are. Why not?

The Xl
02-06-2014, 06:23 PM
Of course. But that's not the way things are. Why not?

The state.

The Wash
02-06-2014, 06:25 PM
Anybody ever take a DNA test to see what "races" they have in their family? Both my parents are black. I'm black looking. DNA wise I'm 25% white.

I think some people would be afraid to take it.

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:25 PM
Wait a minute, so you're now asking us to trust Holder, Obama and the gang because they agree with your own position on the matter?

Nope. I'm saying that the highest officer in the executive branch of govt. knows that race exists and the highest officer in the judicial branch of govt knows that race exists. If it weren't true they would be in line to repeal the laws, right? ...or are they liars and the gov't is a fraud?

Akula
02-06-2014, 06:26 PM
Laws that give preferences to negroes. Laws that give preferences to negroes. Laws that give preferences to negroes.

Let me mull that one over.

Will we also repeal laws that give preferences to business owners, banks, and corporate entities, or just laws that give preferences to people?

Race. Try to keep up.

Gerrard Winstanley
02-06-2014, 06:27 PM
Of course. But that's not the way things are. Why not?
Our tendency to sit back and hope the status quo dies peaceably is one of humanity's worst pitfalls.