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View Full Version : Econ 101: The New Deal Was A Failure



Chris
03-17-2012, 09:33 AM
The New Deal Was A Failure: Hoover and FDR Prolonged the Great Depression with Big Government


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAgt_YCNuw&feature=plcp&context=C475b35cV DvjVQa1PpcFMA8T7kY_7Eag2BOpotZq2Mf2ctSbpT1mc%3D

Conley
03-17-2012, 10:43 AM
Interesting info about Hoover...very convincing! They went from a top tax rate of 25% to 79% in just a few years. Madness.

Even in modern times government spending has skyrocketed under Bush and Obama and the economy has been flat for years now.

Chris
03-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Yep, Hoover was as liberal as Bush with regard to promiting big government.

It is interesting, his book has been published posthumously and it is scathing in its criticism of big government under FDR.

Conley
03-17-2012, 11:13 AM
Yep, Hoover was as liberal as Bush with regard to promiting big government.

It is interesting, his book has been published posthumously and it is scathing in its criticism of big government under FDR.

The video mentioned the concern about a post-WW2 economic crash. So do you think our decade of war in Afghanistan and Iraq puts to rest the idea that war helps boost the economy? Or would our economy be even worse without those wars?

Chris
03-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Sure it does. And I believe that's one reason Washington is reluctant to bring the troops home and end our intervention in the ME. We're already in a recession.

Here's thing though, when WWII ended we went into a recession and FDR and his fellow travelers want to continue the war time spending with a new New Deal. Congress told them to take a hike and reduced taxes and regulations, and we sprang right back.

Conley
03-17-2012, 11:32 AM
Sure it does. And I believe that's one reason Washington is reluctant to bring the troops home and end our intervention in the ME. We're already in a recession.

Here's thing though, when WWII ended we went into a recession and FDR and his fellow travelers want to continue the war time spending with a new New Deal. Congress told them to take a hike and reduced taxes and regulations, and we sprang right back.

OK, but even if you subscribe to the idea that government spending during wartime helps boost the economy, at some point the long term negative effect of that debt will outweigh any short term gains. I think we're way past that point myself.

Chris
03-17-2012, 01:51 PM
Agree. And here's the thing about war-time spending. It drives production way up, but all the goods and services are spent on bullets and bombs. It's wasted wasting an enemy, so to speak.

Conley
03-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Agree. And here's the thing about war-time spending. It drives production way up, but all the goods and services are spent on bullets and bombs. It's wasted wasting an enemy, so to speak.

Right. I mean, it does benefit Americans in terms of employment but after that, what do you have? I would much rather have those jobs and money go towards basic infrastructure because the work will pay off for many years in the future.

Chris
03-17-2012, 02:47 PM
Well, you want those employed people buying goods and services. Instead during the war much was rationed to go to the war effort.

Don
03-25-2012, 09:50 PM
Agree. And here's the thing about war-time spending. It drives production way up, but all the goods and services are spent on bullets and bombs. It's wasted wasting an enemy, so to speak. Ralph Nader wrote a book in the late sixties or early seventies where he talked about this. He contended that it would be better just to build the war materials, put them on war ships and sink them in the middle of the ocean. You get the production without killing anyone. No one would go along with that of course but the corporations wouldn't mind if they did. I don't agree with Nader on most things but I did have to give him a nod for that.

Conley
03-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Ralph Nader wrote a book in the late sixties or early seventies where he talked about this. He contended that it would be better just to build the war materials, put them on war ships and sink them in the middle of the ocean. You get the production without killing anyone. No one would go along with that of course but the corporations wouldn't mind if they did. I don't agree with Nader on most things but I did have to give him a nod for that.

I don't agree with it, but wouldn't the need for increased military forces (if we were fighting a war and not just sinking the war materials) cut down on unemployment, crime, etc.? It seems to me there are more economic repercussions than just the production of war materials.

Don
03-25-2012, 10:02 PM
The new deal was a failure if you are talking about the right way to do something versus the wrong way to do it. FDR was a progressive and I define progressivism as proceeding or progressing by steps or degrees. I doubt if American progressives define it that way but I think its exactly as I defined it. If they state what their real goals are they would be shunned. In England they were called Fabians. The so called new deal just concentrated more and more power at the federal level. War accomplishes the same thing. That's their true goal. Some of them might believe that society isn't intelligent enough to know what's best for them and that justifies the change but I disagree.

Don
03-25-2012, 10:05 PM
I don't agree with it, but wouldn't the need for increased military forces (if we were fighting a war and not just sinking the war materials) cut down on unemployment, crime, etc.? It seems to me there are more economic repercussions than just the production of war materials. Nader was implying that some modern wars may be contrivances by some in big business and their friends in government. Creating an enemy isn't that difficult to do.

Conley
03-25-2012, 10:37 PM
Nader was implying that some modern wars may be contrivances by some in big business and their friends in government. Creating an enemy isn't that difficult to do.

That is certainly true.

Peter1469
03-25-2012, 10:54 PM
The US was successful after WWII because it was the only real manufacturing base left. Everyone else was bombed out.

Chris
03-26-2012, 05:54 AM
It was also successful because faces with an inevitable recession following the war and despite FDR and his fellow travellers wanting to continue the economy on a war time basis, Congress lowered taxes and enacted other pro-business measures.