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Peter1469
05-06-2014, 05:35 PM
The Battle of the Wilderness was fought on May 5-6, 1864. (http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Battle_of_the_Wilderness#start_entry) It was General Grant's first battle as the Union commander and ended up as a tactical loss (because of incompetent generals in the Army of the Potomac), but it turned into a strategic success because Grant did what the Army of the Potomac never did. He pursued Lee rather than retreat after the battle.

I have walked much of that land.


Although disappointed by the tactical setbacks, Grant refused to accept defeat, and in doing so transformed the battle into a strategic victory for the Union. When a general worried about Lee's next move, Grant tersely replied, "I am heartily tired of hearing what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he is suddenly going to turn a double somersault, and land on our rear and on both our flanks at the same time. Go back to your command, and try to think what we are going to do ourselves, instead of what Lee is going to do."


And what Grant did, instead of retreating as the Army of the Potomac had always done in the past, was march south. When the troops realized what was happening, they wildly and spontaneously cheered Grant. The Northern press followed suit, praising the general-in-chief's determination to confront Lee. The bloody reward of that determination—Spotsylvania Court House (http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Spotsylvania_Court_House_Battle_of), North Anna River (http://encyclopediavirginia.org/North_Anna_Battle_of), and Cold Harbor, when Northern morale would be most sorely tested and Grant would be catcalled a "butcher"—was yet to come.

Newpublius
05-06-2014, 05:43 PM
The Battle of the Wilderness was fought on May 5-6, 1864. (http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Battle_of_the_Wilderness#start_entry) It was General Grant's first battle as the Union commander and ended up as a tactical loss (because of incompetent generals in the Army of the Potomac), but it turned into a strategic success because Grant did what the Army of the Potomac never did. He pursued Lee rather than retreat after the battle.

I have walked much of that land.

One difference between McClellan and Grant, Grant appreciated he had numbers and McClellan always thought he was outnumbered.

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 05:49 PM
The Battle of the Wilderness was fought on May 5-6, 1864. (http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Battle_of_the_Wilderness#start_entry) It was General Grant's first battle as the Union commander and ended up as a tactical loss (because of incompetent generals in the Army of the Potomac), but it turned into a strategic success because Grant did what the Army of the Potomac never did. He pursued Lee rather than retreat after the battle.

I have walked much of that land.


I've gone to a festival there and ridden bikes at Bloody Angle.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 05:51 PM
I've gone to a festival there and ridden bikes at Bloody Angle.

I definitely want to go back. It is very spread out too.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 05:52 PM
One difference between McClellan and Grant, Grant appreciated he had numbers and McClellan always thought he was outnumbered.

McClellan wasn't the first Union general to suffer than leadership flaw.

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 06:27 PM
I definitely want to go back. It is very spread out too.

You got a bike? I'll go with you.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 06:29 PM
You got a bike? I'll go with you.

I have a road bike. I should probably get a mountain bike too.

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 06:30 PM
I have a road bike. I should probably get a mountain bike too.

I need a new front tire now that I think of it.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 06:34 PM
I need a new front tire now that I think of it.

That is the easiest thing to fix on a bike.

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 06:34 PM
That is the easiest thing to fix on a bike.

Well not for me. I'm allergic to tires--long story.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 06:38 PM
Well not for me. I'm allergic to tires--long story.

Got it. Well, you do have lots of those marines around. Make a request. I bet it gets fixed fast. Are there many off road trials that are more than just sort of flat. The bike that I have now may be fine.

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 06:43 PM
Got it. Well, you do have lots of those marines around. Make a request. I bet it gets fixed fast. Are there many off road trials that are more than just sort of flat. The bike that I have now may be fine.

Or I just take it to the bike shop...? :)

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Or I just take it to the bike shop...? :)

That too. You just need a new tire or a new tube? Not the entire wheel right?

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Or I just take it to the bike shop...? :)


What type of bike? Mnt? Or a girl bike? :smiley:

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 06:49 PM
What type of bike? Mnt? Or a girl bike? :smiley:

:huh:

Mountain bike. I need a new tire and tube--I think. Ask Codename.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 07:04 PM
:huh:

Mountain bike. I need a new tire and tube--I think. Ask Codename.

That is easy to fix. I don't suppose you know the tire size? And what type of stem it has?

Mister D
05-06-2014, 07:04 PM
That's the Chancellorsville battlefield too. More interesting, IMO. The Wilderness was a cluster fuck.

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 07:07 PM
That is easy to fix. I don't suppose you know the tire size? And what type of stem it has?

Um, no. This is the bike only model year 2012

7223

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 07:14 PM
That is an expensive bike. The tire size is Schwalbe Nobby Nic Evo, tubeless ready, 27.5x2.25, folding. I never changed a tubeless tire before. Bike shop.... :smiley:

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 07:15 PM
Can you lock the front shocks? My last mountain bike I could, and that helps a lot when you try to go fast.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 07:18 PM
My road bike would be fine for this place. (http://www.nps.gov/frsp/wilder.htm)

Alyosha
05-06-2014, 07:25 PM
That is an expensive bike. The tire size is Schwalbe Nobby Nic Evo, tubeless ready, 27.5x2.25, folding. I never changed a tubeless tire before. Bike shop.... :smiley:

Obviously I did not buy it for myself.

Bob
05-06-2014, 07:36 PM
The Battle of the Wilderness was fought on May 5-6, 1864. (http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Battle_of_the_Wilderness#start_entry) It was General Grant's first battle as the Union commander and ended up as a tactical loss (because of incompetent generals in the Army of the Potomac), but it turned into a strategic success because Grant did what the Army of the Potomac never did. He pursued Lee rather than retreat after the battle.

I have walked much of that land.

Lee would have whipped Grant's army had he had the reserves Grant had.

This series of battles were all won by Lee. However, he also lost troops. At the following battles, he had fewer men to defend each area.

Peter1469
05-06-2014, 07:55 PM
Lee would have whipped Grant's army had he had the reserves Grant had.

This series of battles were all won by Lee. However, he also lost troops. At the following battles, he had fewer men to defend each area.

Lee was the only real strategic level thinker in the south. He had no chance of winning with the generals under him.

Bob
05-06-2014, 08:16 PM
Um, no. This is the bike only model year 2012

7223

Those front Shocks by FOX

I knew the two oldest brothers that founded that company.

When I met them, they raced a Corvette at the Drag strips in North California. They removed their roller Cam Shaft by Iskenderian called the 7000 T, 5 cycle Cam and I went to their home when they lived at home in Atherton Ca as I recall (Could have been Menlo Park the adjacent wealthy area) and paid one of the brothers in cash and took the Cam to my home.

Later another dude that raced asked if I had rear end gears for his Chevrolet. I raced my 56 Chevy 2 door Chevy Del Ray in the C Gas class. I expected the same speeds the Fox Brothers got from their Corvette that raced a different class. I loaned gears to this clown who the following day came to my home and stole the cam and a lot of parts for my engine. I later tracked down the crook by talking to a speed shop owner who had installed my cam into this guys car.

When my daughter raced motocross in the late 70s to the mid 80s, she used FOX products. FOX makes very good products.

I have not seen the brothers in person since the early 60s.

Mountain bikes are a mystery to me.

Having raced motocross (my daughter that is), i have changed a lot of tires for motorcycles though.

Since the tire is tubeless, a local dealer that sells tubeless tires can fix that in a very few minutes.

Mister D
05-06-2014, 08:34 PM
Lee was the only real strategic level thinker in the south. He had no chance of winning with the generals under him.

Outside foreign intervention, I don't think the south had any chance at all. That said, I think Lee had several excellent subordinates. Moreover, as you noted earlier, the south lost at Gettysburg because of Lee not his generals.

Bob
05-06-2014, 08:43 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=603938#post603938)
Lee would have whipped Grant's army had he had the reserves Grant had.

This series of battles were all won by Lee. However, he also lost troops. At the following battles, he had fewer men to defend each area.


Lee was the only real strategic level thinker in the south. He had no chance of winning with the generals under him.

It has been some years since I studied those series of battles and I have to consult my book of Generals and look over Lee's again but you seem to be current on this and I tend to think you are much more expert than I am on this. I recall Lee losing one of his best Generals that died at a building I have seen with my own eyes. I also may being feeling age Peter so I can check my books again. I made sure when following those battles when in VA to savor each spot trying to imagine what Lee did and why.

Newpublius
05-07-2014, 01:57 PM
Outside foreign intervention, I don't think the south had any chance at all. That said, I think Lee had several excellent subordinates. Moreover, as you noted earlier, the south lost at Gettysburg because of Lee not his generals.

I thanked the post despite not entirely agreeing with it. I'm not saying Lee shouldn't shoulder the blame at Gettysburg (the buck stops at Lee), I still think the South had a good crap shoot there and I think Longstreet screwed Lee.....ie made the crap shoot less likely to happen....more of a nuance than outright rejecting what you're saying really....I could talk Civil War all day long...

Mister D
05-07-2014, 02:05 PM
I thanked the post despite not entirely agreeing with it. I'm not saying Lee shouldn't shoulder the blame at Gettysburg (the buck stops at Lee), I still think the South had a good crap shoot there and I think Longstreet screwed Lee.....ie made the crap shoot less likely to happen....more of a nuance than outright rejecting what you're saying really....I could talk Civil War all day long...

I certainly agree that Lee's generals failed him at times but I also think those failures have often been used to protect Lee's reputation. I also think we tend to look for what Lee and the Army of N. Virginia did wrong rather than what Meade and the Army of the Potomac did right.