'The Case for Reparations'

[midcan5]

Please do not comment unless you read the article.


"Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole." Ta-Nehisi Coates


http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/


"And if thy brother, a Hebrew man, or a Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing today." Deuteronomy 15: 12–15




"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

[Alyosha]

I read the Atlantic. I think it's odd that you ask to read before commenting since I doubt you're reading all the Blaze articles people post before commenting, but whatever...


Here is my comment, and I have given this thought. The American black culture was a product of slavery. In many ways, this can be a positive experience


Ό,τι δεν με σκοτώνει με κάνει ποιο δυνατό

(That which does not destroy me makes me strong". When you are fueled by yearning and then set free you bring with you determination and motivation which can only come through adversity. Most African cultures have a highly ingrained sense of history and family. Blacks in the US kept that until we destroyed it with, sorry, many liberals polices of patronage that were well-intended but still not in the long-term "positive". There were many black businesses on the rise, blacks had tighter knit families, their segregated communities were more successful than now in terms of proportionate economics, and I believe this was because they had fight in them.

Maya Angelou's poem is so moving to me, Still I Rise

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I’ll rise.
Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
‘Cause I walk like I’ve got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.
Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I’ll rise.
Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries.
Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don’t you take it awful hard
‘Cause I laugh like I got gold mines
Diggin’ in my own back yard.
You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I’ll rise.
Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I’ve got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?
Out of the huts of history’s shame
I rise
Up from a past that’s rooted in pain
I rise
I’m a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.
Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that’s wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

I am constantly motivated by this poem. It is that powerful "NO!" That "you will not tell me my limits" scream!

And this is lost with the well-intentioned patronage of whites like yourself who want to give a generation of blacks who have long moved past this culture of feistyness and strength into the white world of fast money and get yours before they get theirs.

When we moved here to the US I lived in a mostly black city and in a mostly black ghetto neighborhood. The older black men and women used to shake their heads and say "These kids today are stupid. They don't know where they come from."

I think reparations should have come after the Civil War or not at all. I don't think what blacks today need is stuff, but a return to family and a sense of their own, empowered history. That means that instead of looking up to Jay-Z as a former drug dealer turned rap mogul they should look up to Oprah Winfrey, former Mississippi planter's granddaughter turned billionaire media mogul with a good heart.

[Chris]

To me it is odd that the same people who reject inheritance of wealth in a family demand inheritance of reparations among stangers to each other and those who were slaves and masters.

[Captain Obvious]

I read the article.

Bull fucking shit. I refuse to pay someone for a wrong they did not suffer nor did I commit.

My ancestors lives probably sucked a lot along the way, where are my reparations?

No, the concept is bullshit. Nobody in this generation owes anyone else anything. Sorry this shit happened to your ancestors, wish it didn't. Life's a bitch, there is no justice sometimes.

Penalizing the innocent to benefit the unharmed isn't the right way around it.

[Libhater]

Thirty five years of racist housing policy? LMFAO! Thirty five years of blacks getting preferential treatment via quotas and affirmative action is what you meant to say. How many reparations do you want above the welfare, the section 8 housing, the food stamps and the recognition from Obama that you'll all get equal treatment while he's the president before it sinks in that you blacks will have to fend for yourself some day just like everyone else? You should take a lesson from some of the black Conservatives out there like a Ben Carson on how to stop your whining and how to put your outstretched alms hand back into your own pocket.

[1751_Texan]

No movement exist to make it happen. Some people love to stir the pot..and others can't wait to help.

These types of articles or forum topics are standard fare...like the pregnant local TV station's on-air talent's pregnancy and baby reports...They come around like clockwork.

[Kalkin]

Harry Browne said it nicely:

Harry’s letter to his daughter:
It’s Christmas and I have the usual problem of deciding what to give you. I know you might enjoy many things — books, games, clothes.

But I’m very selfish. I want to give you something that will stay with you for more than a few months or years. I want to give you a gift that might remind you of me every Christmas.

If I could give you just one thing, I’d want it to be a simple truth that took me many years to learn. If you learn it now, it may enrich your life in hundreds of ways. And it may prevent you from facing many problems that have hurt people who have never learned it.

The truth is simply this: No one owes you anything.

Significance
How could such a simple statement be important? It may not seem so, but understanding it can bless your entire life.

No one owes you anything.

It means that no one else is living for you, my child. Because no one is you. Each person is living for himself; his own happiness is all he can ever personally feel.

When you realize that no one owes you happiness or anything else, you’ll be freed from expecting what isn’t likely to be.

It means no one has to love you. If someone loves you, it’s because there’s something special about you that gives him happiness. Find out what that something special is and try to make it stronger in you, so that you’ll be loved even more.

When people do things for you, it’s because they want to — because you, in some way, give them something meaningful that makes them want to please you, not because anyone owes you anything.

No one has to like you. If your friends want to be with you, it’s not out of duty. Find out what makes others happy so they’ll want to be near you.

No one has to respect you. Some people may even be unkind to you. But once you realize that people don’t have to be good to you, and may not be good to you, you’ll learn to avoid those who would harm you. For you don’t owe them anything either.

Living your Life
No one owes you anything.

You owe it to yourself to be the best person possible. Because if you are, others will want to be with you, want to provide you with the things you want in exchange for what you’re giving to them.

Some people will choose not to be with you for reasons that have nothing to do with you. When that happens, look elsewhere for the relationships you want. Don’t make someone else’s problem your problem.

Once you learn that you must earn the love and respect of others, you’ll never expect the impossible and you won’t be disappointed. Others don’t have to share their property with you, nor their feelings or thoughts.

If they do, it’s because you’ve earned these things. And you have every reason to be proud of the love you receive, your friends’ respect, the property you’ve earned. But don’t ever take them for granted. If you do, you could lose them. They’re not yours by right; you must always earn them.

My Experience
A great burden was lifted from my shoulders the day I realized that no one owes me anything. For so long as I’d thought there were things I was entitled to, I’d been wearing myself out —physically and emotionally — trying to collect them.

No one owes me moral conduct, respect, friendship, love, courtesy, or intelligence. And once I recognized that, all my relationships became far more satisfying. I’ve focused on being with people who want to do the things I want them to do.

That understanding has served me well with friends, business associates, lovers, sales prospects, and strangers. It constantly reminds me that I can get what I want only if I can enter the other person’s world. I must try to understand how he thinks, what he believes to be important, what he wants. Only then can I appeal to someone in ways that will bring me what I want.

And only then can I tell whether I really want to be involved with someone. And I can save the important relationships for those with whom I have the most in common.

It’s not easy to sum up in a few words what has taken me years to learn. But maybe if you re-read this gift each Christmas, the meaning will become a little clearer every year.

I hope so, for I want more than anything else for you to understand this simple truth that can set you free:

No one owes you anything.

[The Xl]

An argument for reparations could have been made 50 years ago. That time has come and gone.

In any case, why do I have to pay for something I never engaged in? Not that it matters anyway, because it still would have nothing to do with me, but my family came to America in the early-mid 1900s and were poor as shit. Not only did they never engage in slavery, they may have had ancestors that were glorified slaves over in Europe.

The best reparations for black people would be the end of the drug war and other government fuckery, be it in the form of discrimination or "help." We all need to be treated as equals by the law and government.

[Chris]

You all got to recognize that to a progressive like midcan rights represent abstract obligations of society. They don't have anything to do with anyone in particular. They're used to look good in crying for social justice, and make look bad those who do not.

[Kalkin]

I find it ironic that the same gaggle of fools that want to end inheritance also want to restore some fictional inheritance that was stolen from slaves ages ago via "reparations".

[Newpublius]

Please do not comment unless you read the article.


"Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole." Ta-Nehisi Coates


http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/


"And if thy brother, a Hebrew man, or a Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing today." Deuteronomy 15: 12–15




"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

Let me know when the Hapsburgs will be paying me (Czech blood) and the English (Irish blood) and let me know when I'll be getting a check for that half of the Roman Empire the Muslims took.

[KC]

Let me know when the Hapsburgs will be paying me (Czech blood) and the English (Irish blood) and let me know when I'll be getting a check for that half of the Roman Empire the Muslims took.

Awesome-- I'm Polish. Gonna make some serious bank.

[Chris]

I find it ironic that the same gaggle of fools that want to end inheritance also want to restore some fictional inheritance that was stolen from slaves ages ago via "reparations".

Exactly.

[Cthulhu]

Please do not comment unless you read the article.

Good one, do tell another.



"Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole." Ta-Nehisi Coates

Wrong. All of those slave owners who owed such a debt are long dead, as are the slaves they owned. The debt cannot be repaid as those it is owed to cannot be repaid by those who have long since passed.

Tossing aside the fact that you can't even quantify a 'moral debt'. Yet one side declares interest on it - good luck collecting on it.



http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/


"And if thy brother, a Hebrew man, or a Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing today." Deuteronomy 15: 12–15

So you expect a separation of church and state, yet you want the state to operate the Sabbatical release under Jewish law as outlined in the OT?

Dude, I got no words. You only like religion when it suits you then? This is Twilight Zone stuff.



"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac." James Baldwin

Blarg. Please to not respond to me.

[Don]

Awesome-- I'm Polish. Gonna make some serious bank.

I'm English, Irish, French, German, Tennessee with a little bit of Cherokee. A mutt. I guess I'll have to pay myself reparations. I'll buy myself a Powerball ticket.

[Peter1469]

40 acres and mule (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/the-truth-behind-40-acres-and-a-mule/) was the reparations for post civil war blacks. It was a harsh reality. Take the land (and the mule) and there was no further government handout. Work the land, make your own food, or sell your own product to buy food or die. That was very different from slavery, where owners had an interest in keeping slaves alive and relatively healthy even if the slave didn't put in a full days work or even took of on unofficial R&R.

Slavery was very bad to blacks in America. The welfare state was worse in its long term damage to black cultural institutions, most notably the family.

Oh, and the 40 acres and a mule policy was ended shortly after it was enacted by President Johnson.


I read the Atlantic. I think it's odd that you ask to read before commenting since I doubt you're reading all the Blaze articles people post before commenting, but whatever...


Here is my comment, and I have given this thought. The American black culture was a product of slavery. In many ways, this can be a positive experience


Ό,τι δεν με σκοτώνει με κάνει ποιο δυνατό

(That which does not destroy me makes me strong". When you are fueled by yearning and then set free you bring with you determination and motivation which can only come through adversity. Most African cultures have a highly ingrained sense of history and family. Blacks in the US kept that until we destroyed it with, sorry, many liberals polices of patronage that were well-intended but still not in the long-term "positive". There were many black businesses on the rise, blacks had tighter knit families, their segregated communities were more successful than now in terms of proportionate economics, and I believe this was because they had fight in them.

Maya Angelou's poem is so moving to me, Still I Rise

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I’ll rise.
Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
‘Cause I walk like I’ve got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.
Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I’ll rise.
Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries.
Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don’t you take it awful hard
‘Cause I laugh like I got gold mines
Diggin’ in my own back yard.
You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I’ll rise.
Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I’ve got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?
Out of the huts of history’s shame
I rise
Up from a past that’s rooted in pain
I rise
I’m a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.
Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that’s wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

I am constantly motivated by this poem. It is that powerful "NO!" That "you will not tell me my limits" scream!

And this is lost with the well-intentioned patronage of whites like yourself who want to give a generation of blacks who have long moved past this culture of feistyness and strength into the white world of fast money and get yours before they get theirs.

When we moved here to the US I lived in a mostly black city and in a mostly black ghetto neighborhood. The older black men and women used to shake their heads and say "These kids today are stupid. They don't know where they come from."

I think reparations should have come after the Civil War or not at all. I don't think what blacks today need is stuff, but a return to family and a sense of their own, empowered history. That means that instead of looking up to Jay-Z as a former drug dealer turned rap mogul they should look up to Oprah Winfrey, former Mississippi planter's granddaughter turned billionaire media mogul with a good heart.

[The Sage of Main Street]

We should demand reparations from their own African slavers for selling us defective merchandise.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Awesome-- I'm Polish. Gonna make some serious bank. In America, Blacks have never been treated worse than they deserved. We should demand reparations for the costs of the Civil War, welfare, and crime. Nigeria is one of their homelands and has plenty of oil that can be used for those reparations.

[Peter1469]

We should demand reparations from their own African slavers for selling us defective merchandise.

:shocked:

[Kalkin]

You're all over the map, dude.

[Peter1469]

You're all over the map, dude.

He is just covering all of the bases. :smiley:

[The Sage of Main Street]

He is just covering all of the bases. :smiley: Which means I hit a home run.

[Peter1469]

Which means I hit a home run.
I can grant you that.

[Refugee]

I read the article.

Bull fucking shit. I refuse to pay someone for a wrong they did not suffer nor did I commit.

My ancestors lives probably sucked a lot along the way, where are my reparations?

No, the concept is bullshit. Nobody in this generation owes anyone else anything. Sorry this shit happened to your ancestors, wish it didn't. Life's a bitch, there is no justice sometimes.

Penalizing the innocent to benefit the unharmed isn't the right way around it.

How true. The Americans were once under the yolk of the British. The British under the Roman Empire and the French in 1066. Slavery in the west has gone and so has colonialism. There are no excuses any more.

[Adelaide]

An argument for reparations could have been made 50 years ago. That time has come and gone.

In any case, why do I have to pay for something I never engaged in? Not that it matters anyway, because it still would have nothing to do with me, but my family came to America in the early-mid 1900s and were poor as shit. Not only did they never engage in slavery, they may have had ancestors that were glorified slaves over in Europe.

The best reparations for black people would be the end of the drug war and other government fuckery, be it in the form of discrimination or "help." We all need to be treated as equals by the law and government.

Without comment on whether their should be reparations, I don't think time matters. In the last several years my government finally started making apologies and reparations to aboriginals for the Indian Residential School system - even Pope Benedict XVI apologized. Then there was $350 million for a foundation to help heal, an additional $40 million for the foundation and a $1.9 billion compensation package. Every person subject to the system will get $10000 plus $3000 for every year in the system. Up to $275,000 will go towards anyone who was abused physically or sexually. People who were hurt as a result of, say, a parent being in the system is able to be assisted by the foundation that has been set up.

I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for these types of situations, and to make reparations where it can make a difference as it effects later generations in a multitude of ways. I think the difficult thing with reparations for slavery in the US is that you'd have to prove you are a descendant of a slave - I'm not sure how easily that could be done. I think it's also a very large number of descendants which would be hard to handle and you'd have some inefficient and costly department created to try and sort it out. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offer things like scholarships en masse. Only so many people would apply each year making it easier to document and verify, and it goes towards something that is positive and that many people (regardless of ethnicity or family history) can't afford. I think it could also potentially stop young teenagers from making a choice in a low income neighbourhood of just saying "Fuck it, I can't afford it anyways" and turning towards things like gangs instead of school. I don't know - if reparations were made I'm not sure how it could be handled without creating a mess.

[Perianne]

I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for these types of situations, and to make reparations where it can make a difference as it effects later generations in a multitude of ways. I think the difficult thing with reparations for slavery in the US is that you'd have to prove you are a descendant of a slave - I'm not sure how easily that could be done. I think it's also a very large number of descendants which would be hard to handle and you'd have some inefficient and costly department created to try and sort it out. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offer things like scholarships en masse. Only so many people would apply each year making it easier to document and verify, and it goes towards something that is positive and that many people (regardless of ethnicity or family history) can't afford. I think it could also potentially stop young teenagers from making a choice in a low income neighbourhood of just saying "Fuck it, I can't afford it anyways" and turning towards things like gangs instead of school. I don't know - if reparations were made I'm not sure how it could be handled without creating a mess.

I came here in 1961 from Finland. No one in my family ever harmed any blacks, just as no blacks have been slaves since then. How about we all take personal responsibility for ourselves and quit blaming lack of success on something that happened over one hundred years ago?

[The Sage of Main Street]

I and my descendants should be drawing disability checks for the next 200 years because of my Post tPF Stress Disorder.

[Mister D]

Without comment on whether their should be reparations, I don't think time matters. In the last several years my government finally started making apologies and reparations to aboriginals for the Indian Residential School system - even Pope Benedict XVI apologized. Then there was $350 million for a foundation to help heal, an additional $40 million for the foundation and a $1.9 billion compensation package. Every person subject to the system will get $10000 plus $3000 for every year in the system. Up to $275,000 will go towards anyone who was abused physically or sexually. People who were hurt as a result of, say, a parent being in the system is able to be assisted by the foundation that has been set up.

I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for these types of situations, and to make reparations where it can make a difference as it effects later generations in a multitude of ways. I think the difficult thing with reparations for slavery in the US is that you'd have to prove you are a descendant of a slave - I'm not sure how easily that could be done. I think it's also a very large number of descendants which would be hard to handle and you'd have some inefficient and costly department created to try and sort it out. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offer things like scholarships en masse. Only so many people would apply each year making it easier to document and verify, and it goes towards something that is positive and that many people (regardless of ethnicity or family history) can't afford. I think it could also potentially stop young teenagers from making a choice in a low income neighbourhood of just saying "Fuck it, I can't afford it anyways" and turning towards things like gangs instead of school. I don't know - if reparations were made I'm not sure how it could be handled without creating a mess.

Time is crucial and apologies are ritualistic at best and meaningless at worst. If you didn't actually suffer you deserve nothing. I'm not buying this mysticism about effects multi-generational effects that cannot be overcome.

Quite frankly, the entire discussion just lowers my opinion of blacks generally.

[Kalkin]

Which means I hit a home run.
Not really. Bases are covered by the team on defense, who try to prevent home runs.

[Kalkin]

Without comment on whether their should be reparations, I don't think time matters. In the last several years my government finally started making apologies and reparations to aboriginals for the Indian Residential School system - even Pope Benedict XVI apologized. Then there was $350 million for a foundation to help heal, an additional $40 million for the foundation and a $1.9 billion compensation package. Every person subject to the system will get $10000 plus $3000 for every year in the system. Up to $275,000 will go towards anyone who was abused physically or sexually. People who were hurt as a result of, say, a parent being in the system is able to be assisted by the foundation that has been set up.

I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for these types of situations, and to make reparations where it can make a difference as it effects later generations in a multitude of ways. I think the difficult thing with reparations for slavery in the US is that you'd have to prove you are a descendant of a slave - I'm not sure how easily that could be done. I think it's also a very large number of descendants which would be hard to handle and you'd have some inefficient and costly department created to try and sort it out. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offer things like scholarships en masse. Only so many people would apply each year making it easier to document and verify, and it goes towards something that is positive and that many people (regardless of ethnicity or family history) can't afford. I think it could also potentially stop young teenagers from making a choice in a low income neighbourhood of just saying "Fuck it, I can't afford it anyways" and turning towards things like gangs instead of school. I don't know - if reparations were made I'm not sure how it could be handled without creating a mess.
Why should my taxes go to pay reparations to someone I've never wronged? Even sillier, to the descendants of someone I've never wronged. What if someone is descended from a mix of slaves and slave owners? Would they pay reparations to themselves?

[Dr. Who]

I came here in 1961 from Finland. No one in my family ever harmed any blacks, just as no blacks have been slaves since then. How about we all take personal responsibility for ourselves and quit blaming lack of success on something that happened over one hundred years ago?
The Jim Crow laws were not declared unconstitutional until 1964 (civil rights) and 1965 (voting). I expect that those laws, being so much more recent have affected people who are still with us and have children who were marginalized by those laws while they were growing up. On the other hand, I don't believe that reparations are practical in the circumstances. There is no way to quantify what was lost and a monetary award will not compensate a lack of opportunity fifty years ago or more.

[Peter1469]

I always considered affirmative action to be this sort of soft reparations. SCOTUS ruled recently that it has gone on long enough to be ended as states and institutions see fit.


Without comment on whether their should be reparations, I don't think time matters. In the last several years my government finally started making apologies and reparations to aboriginals for the Indian Residential School system - even Pope Benedict XVI apologized. Then there was $350 million for a foundation to help heal, an additional $40 million for the foundation and a $1.9 billion compensation package. Every person subject to the system will get $10000 plus $3000 for every year in the system. Up to $275,000 will go towards anyone who was abused physically or sexually. People who were hurt as a result of, say, a parent being in the system is able to be assisted by the foundation that has been set up.

I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for these types of situations, and to make reparations where it can make a difference as it effects later generations in a multitude of ways. I think the difficult thing with reparations for slavery in the US is that you'd have to prove you are a descendant of a slave - I'm not sure how easily that could be done. I think it's also a very large number of descendants which would be hard to handle and you'd have some inefficient and costly department created to try and sort it out. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offer things like scholarships en masse. Only so many people would apply each year making it easier to document and verify, and it goes towards something that is positive and that many people (regardless of ethnicity or family history) can't afford. I think it could also potentially stop young teenagers from making a choice in a low income neighbourhood of just saying "Fuck it, I can't afford it anyways" and turning towards things like gangs instead of school. I don't know - if reparations were made I'm not sure how it could be handled without creating a mess.

[midcan5]

If anyone considers their reply worthy of my taking a bit of time to read it because they said something intelligent, please provide the reply ID number. Thanks. I did read the first two pages of meaningless childish banter. Curious how everything becomes about me, 'me' being the empty headed fool giving their two cents of nothing. Oh I'm so sorry for you, well actually no.

@Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) I did find the moronic comment that 'what does not kill us makes us stronger' totally inane and off the wall. Nietzsche actually went insane so it is hard to say if his words helped much. Christopher Hitchens talks about that silly phrase in his book, 'Mortality.' I don't have the book with me today so I can't pull the comment. Maybe another time. Next time you're with a sick person, give them that great advice. I'm sure they'll feel all better.

For the intelligent reader who can read without whining and crying, there is a bunch of stuff below that gives reasoned arguments.

'The Case For Repair, Part 1'
A Guest Post by N. D. B. Connolly.


"It seems we stuck in yet another moment when nationalism (perhaps even racial nationalism) muddles our ability to see capitalism. The kinds of predations that snuffed out the life chances of so many black Americans were acts of racism within a society structured on white supremacy, of that Coates leaves no doubt. Yet we should not be surprised that such acts, within such a society, end up being widely practiced by African Americans against African Americans in the name of black upward mobility, property ownership, and self-determination." http://urbanhistorians.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/the-case-for-repair/


'The Case for Repair, Part 2'


A Guest Post by N. D. B. Connolly.


"So, what do we do? With ‘nuff respect for all the bandwidth Coates has burned through making the case for racial justice over the years, and with a tip of the hat to the work of Congressman Conyers, Randall Robinson, and many others, I offer these recommendations for reframing old issues and marshaling new ones in the name of repairing a racist government, in the name of making reparations."
http://urbanhistorians.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/the-case-for-repair-part-2/




I usually don't buy into a purely economic view of reality and the outcomes of social privilege but there is an interesting point in this piece. When everyone prospers everyone prospers.
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/05/how-much-have-white-americans-benefited-from-slavery-and-its-legacy.html


Klein's piece is here: http://www.vox.com/2014/5/23/5743056/you-can-be-a-beneficiary-of-racism-even-if-you-re-not-a-racist


'This week Bill speaks with Ta-Nehisi Coates, a senior editor for The Atlantic about his cover story on why America needs to reconcile with its racist past.' http://www.commondreams.org/video/2014/05/24

[Codename Section]

midcan5

she is a sick person and that kinda is her motto right now. Don't you feel stupid for saying that now? Yes, some people believe that.

[Refugee]

Well, I don’t know about intelligence Midcan, but I’ll vote your above post (33) one of the most unintelligible mind numbing posts I’ve ever come across. You win, you’ve completely lost me.

[Dr. Who]

@Midcan, the idea of reparations is unworkable. To whom would you offer reparations? Many of the ancestors of people currently living in poverty, were not themselves living in poverty before the 60's. Back in the early part of the century when many black families were close and worked toward a common goal, farmed and owned businesses and had direction, the current situation was unthinkable. It wasn't until the great migration to northern industry that families fell apart and forgot their own heritage and then when industry began to collapse, so did the social fiber of many of those communities. It's not like all black people have failed to thrive. There is a percentage, and that percentage have forgotten or never new who they are. What would reparations mean to the flotsam of society. A windfall to be spent on what? It would be no more than a cheap lottery win, spent on frivolity in short order.

The majority of black people in America have made decent lives for themselves and their children and don't require a government windfall. What happened 200 years ago does not involve the people or the governments of today. There is no one left alive to testify what they lost in being kidnapped. It is not quantifiable. Holding on to the sins of the past is a burden that simply holds people back from achieving their potential.

[Perianne]

There is no one left alive to testify what they lost in being kidnapped. It is not quantifiable. Holding on to the sins of the past is a burden that simply holds people back from achieving their potential.

We could offer to send them back, free of charge. Would that satisfy the reparations people?

[Alyosha]

If anyone considers their reply worthy of my taking a bit of time to read it because they said something intelligent, please provide the reply ID number. Thanks. I did read the first two pages of meaningless childish banter. Curious how everything becomes about me, 'me' being the empty headed fool giving their two cents of nothing. Oh I'm so sorry for you, well actually no.

@Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) I did find the moronic comment that 'what does not kill us makes us stronger' totally inane and off the wall. Nietzsche actually went insane so it is hard to say if his words helped much. Christopher Hitchens talks about that silly phrase in his book, 'Mortality.' I don't have the book with me today so I can't pull the comment. Maybe another time. Next time you're with a sick person, give them that great advice. I'm sure they'll feel all better.

I am sick and it does help me feel better. You should think about how much you know of someone before you make assumptions like the above.

[Dr. Who]

We could offer to send them back, free of charge. Would that satisfy the reparation people?
Send them back to where? Black people in America have genetic linkages to many parts of Africa and many parts of Europe. It would be like trying to deport the average white American citizen whose family has been in America for 200 years. Any issues with black Americans are American issues and fall to America to resolve, as are all of it's issues flowing from poverty. The problems of American ghettos stem from years of neglect and then more recently throwing money at issues without considering the net effect. The cure for these areas is not money, but self-respect.

[The Xl]

Without comment on whether their should be reparations, I don't think time matters. In the last several years my government finally started making apologies and reparations to aboriginals for the Indian Residential School system - even Pope Benedict XVI apologized. Then there was $350 million for a foundation to help heal, an additional $40 million for the foundation and a $1.9 billion compensation package. Every person subject to the system will get $10000 plus $3000 for every year in the system. Up to $275,000 will go towards anyone who was abused physically or sexually. People who were hurt as a result of, say, a parent being in the system is able to be assisted by the foundation that has been set up.

I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for these types of situations, and to make reparations where it can make a difference as it effects later generations in a multitude of ways. I think the difficult thing with reparations for slavery in the US is that you'd have to prove you are a descendant of a slave - I'm not sure how easily that could be done. I think it's also a very large number of descendants which would be hard to handle and you'd have some inefficient and costly department created to try and sort it out. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offer things like scholarships en masse. Only so many people would apply each year making it easier to document and verify, and it goes towards something that is positive and that many people (regardless of ethnicity or family history) can't afford. I think it could also potentially stop young teenagers from making a choice in a low income neighbourhood of just saying "Fuck it, I can't afford it anyways" and turning towards things like gangs instead of school. I don't know - if reparations were made I'm not sure how it could be handled without creating a mess.

Why am I supposed to pay for something that I didn't engage in? My ancestors didn't either.

I support the black community and defend them a lot on here, but one thing I cannot support is reparations.

[Perianne]

I support the black community and defend them a lot on here, but one thing I cannot support is reparations.

New car sales and rims would definitely go up. I don't mean to be tacky, but it is true.

[Kalkin]

New car sales and rims would definitely go up. I don't mean to be tacky, but it is true.
Gold teef stocks would skyrocket.

[Bob]

40 acres and mule (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/the-truth-behind-40-acres-and-a-mule/) was the reparations for post civil war blacks. It was a harsh reality. Take the land (and the mule) and there was no further government handout. Work the land, make your own food, or sell your own product to buy food or die. That was very different from slavery, where owners had an interest in keeping slaves alive and relatively healthy even if the slave didn't put in a full days work or even took of on unofficial R&R.

Slavery was very bad to blacks in America. The welfare state was worse in its long term damage to black cultural institutions, most notably the family.

Oh, and the 40 acres and a mule policy was ended shortly after it was enacted by President Johnson.

They did get 40 acres and the mule. Glad you thought to mention it. There is no need to use public funds today for that purpose.

[midcan5]

she is a sick person and that kinda is her motto right now. Don't you feel stupid for saying that now? Yes, some people believe that.

What the heck are you talking about 'she?' Some people believe, if it gives you comfort go for it but it is hardly great advice.

And for the others who think I personally am for reparations, this is the problem with assuming, you know the next line. Ideas confuse you right wingers, racists, republicans, conservatives, libertarians, et al. Ideas are for discussion, they do not lead to whatever place your programmed mind takes you. You puppets are so well trained you are all switchable, doesn't that make you feel just a little bit stupid? The same circle jerk of idiocy, just another day. Try hard to think on your own, try.

And please, please no more of these simple minded examples that condone all things.

"So I have no peroration or clarion note on which to close. Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you expect others to live for you." Christopher Hitchens, 'Letters to a young contrarian'

[Chris]

What the heck are you talking about 'she?' Some people believe, if it gives you comfort go for it but it is hardly great advice.

And for the others who think I personally am for reparations, this is the problem with assuming, you know the next line. Ideas confuse you right wingers, racists, republicans, conservatives, libertarians, et al. Ideas are for discussion, they do not lead to whatever place your programmed mind takes you. You puppets are so well trained you are all switchable, doesn't that make you feel just a little bit stupid? The same circle jerk of idiocy, just another day. Try hard to think on your own, try.

"So I have no peroration or clarion note on which to close. Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you expect others to live for you." Christopher Hitchens, 'Letters to a young contrarian'


Perhaps we wouldn't have to assume, midcan, if you would state your case plainly and simply. You say the assumption was wrong, but rather than clarify what your position is you proceed to attack everyone around you. You conclude on an admonition to think for yourself and then quote someone else.

[Captain Obvious]

Everybody is looking for a handout lately and that's not a black/white thing either.

We are rapidly shifting from the "I can do it" to "let someone else do it for me" society.

For a number of complicated reasons.

This reparations bullshit is just one of the symptoms, it's just a fucking excuse for another handout.

[Captain Obvious]

midcan5 - you want reparations, go round up your commie buddies and you all pitch in if it helps you sleep better.

Keep your fucking grubby hands out of my pockets.

[The Xl]

@midcan5 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=765) - you want reparations, go round up your commie buddies and you all pitch in if it helps you sleep better.

Keep your fucking grubby hands out of my pockets.

This

[Paperback Writer]

@midcan5 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=765) - you want reparations, go round up your commie buddies and you all pitch in if it helps you sleep better.

Keep your fucking grubby hands out of my pockets.

Correct. Nothing is stopping him from doing so if his conscience calls for it, 'cept maybe lack of blunt because he's got a pisspot position.

[Captain Obvious]

Correct. Nothing is stopping him from doing so if his conscience calls for it, 'cept maybe lack of blunt because he's got a pisspot position.

And you know, quite frankly this attitude pisses me off.

Because you know that won't happen - liberals love spending other peoples money. Yeah, get someone else to pay for it. Their not so passionate about things when they have to, no fucking doubt about it.

[The Sage of Main Street]

If anyone considers their reply worthy of my taking a bit of time to read it because they said something intelligent, please provide the reply ID number. Thanks. I did read the first two pages of meaningless childish banter. Curious how everything becomes about me, 'me' being the empty headed fool giving their two cents of nothing. Oh I'm so sorry for you, well actually no.

@Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) I did find the moronic comment that 'what does not kill us makes us stronger' totally inane and off the wall. Nietzsche actually went insane so it is hard to say if his words helped much. Christopher Hitchens talks about that silly phrase in his book, 'Mortality.' I don't have the book with me today so I can't pull the comment. Maybe another time. Next time you're with a sick person, give them that great advice. I'm sure they'll feel all better.

For the intelligent reader who can read without whining and crying, there is a bunch of stuff below that gives reasoned arguments.

'The Case For Repair, Part 1'
A Guest Post by N. D. B. Connolly.


"It seems we stuck in yet another moment when nationalism (perhaps even racial nationalism) muddles our ability to see capitalism. The kinds of predations that snuffed out the life chances of so many black Americans were acts of racism within a society structured on white supremacy, of that Coates leaves no doubt. Yet we should not be surprised that such acts, within such a society, end up being widely practiced by African Americans against African Americans in the name of black upward mobility, property ownership, and self-determination." http://urbanhistorians.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/the-case-for-repair/


'The Case for Repair, Part 2'


A Guest Post by N. D. B. Connolly.


"So, what do we do? With ‘nuff respect for all the bandwidth Coates has burned through making the case for racial justice over the years, and with a tip of the hat to the work of Congressman Conyers, Randall Robinson, and many others, I offer these recommendations for reframing old issues and marshaling new ones in the name of repairing a racist government, in the name of making reparations."
http://urbanhistorians.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/the-case-for-repair-part-2/




I usually don't buy into a purely economic view of reality and the outcomes of social privilege but there is an interesting point in this piece. When everyone prospers everyone prospers.
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/05/how-much-have-white-americans-benefited-from-slavery-and-its-legacy.html


Klein's piece is here: http://www.vox.com/2014/5/23/5743056/you-can-be-a-beneficiary-of-racism-even-if-you-re-not-a-racist


'This week Bill speaks with Ta-Nehisi Coates, a senior editor for The Atlantic about his cover story on why America needs to reconcile with its racist past.' http://www.commondreams.org/video/2014/05/24

The ruling class turned loose the proven feral races on the White majority in order to weaken us. Part of the 1% posed as Conservatives championing protection of Whites from imaginary "Liberals," who have always been, at least subconsciously, their agents delegated to both harass us and set up their aristocratic brothers, the "Conservatives."

Anyone who falls for this equality and contempt for the White majority and our history is a despicable snob who does not belong in America. This country was built by that majority; Haiti and other failed and savage countries were built by Blacks.

Snobs smother their ability to feel their inadequacy and their Death Wish fascination with the uncivilized by creating childish, cartoonish, and simple minded pictures of racists. Their desperately ego-enhancing portraits of racists are of brutal low-IQ rednecks. A more accurate portrait would include George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and practically every respected person before the ruling-class scheme to humiliate us starting in the 1960s. This idea that Jefferson and others were only racist in conformity to their times is a conceited view of our own times, which are degenerate and will be mocked in the future as irrational, conformist, and unrealistic.