Incorporated SWAT teams.

[Cthulhu]

Prior to the ACLU report on the increasing militarization of police (http://benswann.com/american-police-excessively-militarized-says-new-report/), Massachusetts police offices replied to requests for information saying the SWAT teams in the state are private corporations, exempting them from open records laws.

...
...
...

Because of the pooled funds to support these LECs, some have incorporated 501(c)(3) organization status. This status, according (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/26/mass-swat-teams-claim-theyre-private-companies-and-dont-have-to-tell-you-anything/) to the LECs who have claimed such, grants them the privilege to refuse requests to their records.

The problem is, these LECs employ officers who, according to the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/06/26/massachusetts-swat-teams-claim-theyre-private-corporations-immune-from-open-records-laws/), “carry guns, wear badges, collect paychecks provided by taxpayers and have the power to detain, arrest, injure and kill.” The SWAT teams of the LECs also perform raids on private residences.


Given their status as “private corporations,” this would be akin to private security firms who work independent from the sphere of law carrying out raids on residences.


Jessie Rossman, an ACLU staff attorney in Massachusetts, told the Washington Post, “You can’t have it both ways…The same government authority that allows them to carry weapons, make arrests, and break down the doors of Massachusetts residents during dangerous raids also makes them a government agency that is subject to the open records law.”

Ben Swann (http://benswann.com/swat-teams-claim-private-company-status/)



A curious development. Not too gleeful about its development. I dig private enterprise, like a lot. I don't exactly dig it when it is used as a technicality shield from public scrutiny though.

Thoughts?

[Common Sense]

That's bullshit. Clearly they are afraid of transparency and have gone to great lengths conceal records.

[Cthulhu]

That's bullshit. Clearly they are afraid of transparency and have gone to great lengths conceal records.

That is the little red flag that keeps going up in my mind. Few others too. A corporation exists to do one thing - make a profit. And if their business is violence based?

Don't like it one bit.

[Common Sense]

That is the little red flag that keeps going up in my mind. Few others too. A corporation exists to do one thing - make a profit. And if their business is violence based?

Don't like it one bit.

The same reason private for profit prisons are a bad idea.

[Cthulhu]

The same reason private for profit prisons are a bad idea.

Given the propensity of conspiring with the government and lobbying for certain things, I certainly agree on this point.

[Peter1469]

I think that police powers ought to be inherently governmental. A private "cop" should be a "security guard", body guard, or private detective.

[Polecat]

Private authority? I'll shoot first and ask questions later.

[CreepyOldDude]

Ben Swann (http://benswann.com/swat-teams-claim-private-company-status/)



A curious development. Not too gleeful about its development. I dig private enterprise, like a lot. I don't exactly dig it when it is used as a technicality shield from public scrutiny though.

Thoughts?

Some things really shouldn't be privatized. Law enforcement is one of them.

[Cthulhu]

I think that police powers ought to be inherently governmental. A private "cop" should be a "security guard", body guard, or private detective.


Some things really shouldn't be privatized. Law enforcement is one of them.

Okay, so what about if the city contracts the law enforcement duties to a private firm so long as they act within the proper bounds of peace officers?

Because essentially that is what every police department is in the nation.

[Peter1469]

Okay, so what about if the city contracts the law enforcement duties to a private firm so long as they act within the proper bounds of peace officers?

Because essentially that is what every police department is in the nation.

I would not give them police power. That is inherently a governmental function. They are only security guards. Detain someone and call in for a peace officer commissioned by the state (county, or fed also).

If some rent-a-cop tried to arrest me I would break his jaw.

[Cthulhu]

I would not give them police power. That is inherently a governmental function. They are only security guards. Detain someone and call in for a peace officer commissioned by the state (county, or fed also).

If some rent-a-cop tried to arrest me I would break his jaw.

Even if he was enforcing the law and contracted to do so?

Does your cooperation with the law depend upon the costume of the enforcer?

Because the rank and file police bubba is just a public employee with a specific function. Oaths aside, they are all just employees with tasks and protocols they have to obey to accomplish their specific missions.

Post Office vs. UPS is what I'm seeing here. Same function, different costume.

[Common Sense]

Even if he was enforcing the law and contracted to do so?

Does your cooperation with the law depend upon the costume of the enforcer?

Because the rank and file police bubba is just a public employee with a specific function. Oaths aside, they are all just employees with tasks and protocols they have to obey to accomplish their specific missions.

Post Office vs. UPS is what I'm seeing here. Same function, different costume.

Except that if policing is based on profits, it opens up a whole new kettle of fish. It become ripe for corruption (even more than there is now) and miscarriages of justice.

[zelmo1234]

I think that police powers ought to be inherently governmental. A private "cop" should be a "security guard", body guard, or private detective.

And you have to define that Body Guard thing? We provided executive protection. (body guard) But had the capability to be an offensive force!

While I made a lot of money doing it? I think that it should not be legal to do what we did!

[zelmo1234]

I would not give them police power. That is inherently a governmental function. They are only security guards. Detain someone and call in for a peace officer commissioned by the state (county, or fed also).

If some rent-a-cop tried to arrest me I would break his jaw.

And that is where the problem comes in! Many of the rent a cops have as much or more training that our spec forces

You go to break his jaw and he breaks both of your legs and hand full of ribs and the arm that you attempted to use against him!

[Cthulhu]

Except that if policing is based on profits, it opens up a whole new kettle of fish. It become ripe for corruption (even more than there is now) and miscarriages of justice.

Not true. The cases of corruption in existing law enforcement are staggering.

But you can fire a company in breach of contract. Not always the case with a unionized police force with government backing.

When you can fire an entire company for wrong doing, you can bet the company will have a vested interest in making sure its employees are on the level.

[Polecat]

A SWAT team is not Andy & Barney. Goons are goons I suppose no matter what uniform they wear.

[Peter1469]

Until we now longer have nation states, certain functions should be done by the state. I don't think carrying letters is one of them. I do think police powers are.

If you like in a gated community and contract for security that can detain you, that is fine with me. But walking around town? Move along security man.


Even if he was enforcing the law and contracted to do so?

Does your cooperation with the law depend upon the costume of the enforcer?

Because the rank and file police bubba is just a public employee with a specific function. Oaths aside, they are all just employees with tasks and protocols they have to obey to accomplish their specific missions.

Post Office vs. UPS is what I'm seeing here. Same function, different costume.

[Peter1469]

You point out a separate issue. We need to end our militarized police force and bring back the peace officer.


And that is where the problem comes in! Many of the rent a cops have as much or more training that our spec forces

You go to break his jaw and he breaks both of your legs and hand full of ribs and the arm that you attempted to use against him!

[CreepyOldDude]

Okay, so what about if the city contracts the law enforcement duties to a private firm so long as they act within the proper bounds of peace officers?

Because essentially that is what every police department is in the nation.

Really? I'm sure the NYPD or Pittsburgh's BOP would be surprised to learn that they aren't city employees.

[Cthulhu]

Really? I'm sure the NYPD or Pittsburgh's BOP would be surprised to learn that they aren't city employees.

The city is a corporation. All government is a corporation of some form or another. Indeed, they are city employees.

So what gives one corporation supremacy over another? Why wouldn't a grocery store's police have as much authority to enforce the law than the city's cop?

Social consensus and the costume they wear. Nothing more.

[CreepyOldDude]

The city is a corporation. All government is a corporation of some form or another. Indeed, they are city employees.

So what gives one corporation supremacy over another? Why wouldn't a grocery store's police have as much authority to enforce the law than the city's cop?

Social consensus and the costume they wear. Nothing more.

I'm sorry, but you're really stretching there.