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donttread
07-09-2014, 06:38 PM
If you believe in evolution as most of us do then are we not part of that evolution? Then doesn't it follow that all we do is also part of constant change life on earth under goes? Therefore if we transplant a Mongoose to Hawaii or poison a lake is that not just another expression of nature ?

Common Sense
07-09-2014, 06:42 PM
If you believe in evolution as most of us do then are we not part of that evolution? Then doesn't it follow that all we do is also part of constant change life on earth under goes? Therefore if we transplant a Mongoose to Hawaii or poison a lake is that not just another expression of nature ?

Technically I guess you would be correct. The definition of natural is occurring in nature without human influence. But that is weird because we are natural creatures on this planet just like any other creature.

But just because something is natural, doesn't mean it's good for us or good on an evolutionary scale (disease, asteroid, earthquake etc...).

Chris
07-09-2014, 06:51 PM
If you believe in evolution as most of us do then are we not part of that evolution? Then doesn't it follow that all we do is also part of constant change life on earth under goes? Therefore if we transplant a Mongoose to Hawaii or poison a lake is that not just another expression of nature ?

Yes.

Our actions change our environment--physical, intellectual, spiritual, cultural--and that becomes selective.

lynn
07-09-2014, 09:00 PM
Yes.

Our actions change our environment--physical, intellectual, spiritual, cultural--and that becomes selective.

It is also true that all life in their daily activities changes the environment. The mass extinction events in history is a reflection of living entities activities that resulted in their extinction. The difference now is humans are educated enough to know that their activities are harmful to the environment but do nothing to stop it. The evolution of our larger brains, you would think that we would take steps to prevent our extinction but in fact it has caused it to excel at a faster rate to our eventual extinction.

Chris
07-09-2014, 09:14 PM
It is also true that all life in their daily activities changes the environment. The mass extinction events in history is a reflection of living entities activities that resulted in their extinction. The difference now is humans are educated enough to know that their activities are harmful to the environment but do nothing to stop it. The evolution of our larger brains, you would think that we would take steps to prevent our extinction but in fact it has caused it to excel at a faster rate to our eventual extinction.


True but consider, the more more instinctual, unthinking aspects of humans are still primitive. We still crave after once rare salt and sugar now in so much abundance we over-consume it. We have advanced technologically, only.

midcan5
07-10-2014, 05:45 AM
How are our actions an expression of Nature? Nature is not conscious. Human acts are conscious acts, classify them as good bad or indifferent they are still done by beings aware of consequences.

"It is not enough to ask, Will my act harm other people? Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people? The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit 'Reasons and Persons'

Chris
07-10-2014, 06:25 AM
How are our actions an expression of Nature? Nature is not conscious. Human acts are conscious acts, classify them as good bad or indifferent they are still done by beings aware of consequences.

"It is not enough to ask, Will my act harm other people? Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people? The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit 'Reasons and Persons'


Typical progressive subjectivism: We're not part of nature, our minds create it, thus anything is possible through reason.

lynn
07-10-2014, 08:21 AM
Humans are the most dangerous and invasive species on the planet. We not only harm each other but we harm every other species that we share this planet with. Human beings do conscious acts and are aware of the consequences but this has not stopped them from the destruction we have done to the planet so what good was having those traits?

Chris
07-10-2014, 08:45 AM
Humans are the most dangerous and invasive species on the planet. We not only harm each other but we harm every other species that we share this planet with. Human beings do conscious acts and are aware of the consequences but this has not stopped them from the destruction we have done to the planet so what good was having those traits?

What once helped us survive--technology--may end up killing us off.

donttread
07-10-2014, 06:44 PM
How are our actions an expression of Nature? Nature is not conscious. Human acts are conscious acts, classify them as good bad or indifferent they are still done by beings aware of consequences.

"It is not enough to ask, Will my act harm other people? Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people? The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit 'Reasons and Persons'

There is no one single trait that separates us from the other animals, it's all a matter of degree. Birds use tools, Gorillias can learn sign language and your dog probably understands your language at least as well as you understand his. Killer whales teach different hunting skills to their young depending upon what pod they are in. And predators like Coyotes do a certain kind of math ( 5 of us and one fawn= attack) ( two of us and one buck, keep your distance)

donttread
07-10-2014, 06:45 PM
A lot of great comments, thanks. I was playing devils advocate and I'm not against conservation at all. I'm not for the Adirondacks having to conserve for ourselves and NYC however