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Alyosha
07-30-2014, 07:16 AM
Just like the useless war on drugs, prohibition on a desired product not only fails to reduce the circulation of that product, but it creates more crime, a new criminal class of people who heretofore did not break the law, and reduces the ability of society and/or government to actual impose direction.

People who want drugs buy them regardless of the law.

Unlike drugs, however, which require a particular climate to grow in, guns (once prohibited) can just be fabricated at home.

http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/04/18/cody-wilson-happiness-is-a-3-d-printed-g


"Legal encapsulation is not effectively possible," declares Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed (http://defdist.org/), makers of the world's first gun made via 3D printing technology. "So it's fun to kind of challenge the state to greater and greater levels of its own hyper-statism."Last year, Wilson and crew unveiled The Liberator, a plastic pistol they created on a 3D printer that fired a shot heard around the world. Then they put the 3D-printing files (or CADs) up on the Internet for free. To folks interested in cutting-edge technology and decentralized experiments in living, Wilson's gun symbolized an age of uncontrollable freedom. To lawmakers, it symbolized a threat that moved faster than, well, a speeding bullet. The State Department, in fact, shut down Defense Distributed's ability to disseminate the gun files on the Internet, claiming the nonprofit was violating federal rules about exporting munitions.A self-declared crypto-anarchist, the 26-year-old Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cody_Wilson) is fighting the situation in court—and relishing every minute of his battle with the government.While he's aggressively challenging restrictions on 3D-printed guns, Wilson is also working on an innovative Bitcoin project called Dark Wallet, which would further anonymize financial transactions on the Web, and a book intended to inspire a new generation of digital libertarians.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fhBBipU3w


So now that the state pushed too hard, the result is that innovators have come up with easy ways of thwarting the government control by creating a plastic gun that fires and is undetectable. And the resistance to these stupid laws isn't just an "underground" experience. A good example is that of Spice, K-2, and other "fake pot" products that were released to the public. The DEA and FDA made their formulas illegal, then makers made different formulas. After awhile the government gave up because it couldn't keep up. The same will be true of guns. Innovation is faster than legislation.

It's pointless to make laws that hinder non-violent people. It's expensive and fails every single time.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/e1/b3/dce1b3c33c4dbb11694cc4c8f0adf50b.jpg

Paperback Writer
07-30-2014, 07:40 AM
Thesis (No Gun Control) ->Anti-thesis (Total Gun Control) = some gun control

wait a few years

Thesis (Some Gun Control) -> Anti-thesis (Total Gun Control) = more gun control

this will continue (if allowed) until the US is like the UK. What this move by Wilson has done is created a new dialectic and forced it upon the state

Thesis (Some Gun Control) -> Anti-thesis (Uncontrollable Guns) = ?

If the governments of the world were smart, which I have my doubts regarding, they would rethink what they're trying to accomplish as any tighter attempts at control with modern technology will result in more lawlessness and this time from those citizens who are not traditionally law-breakers.

Captain Obvious
07-30-2014, 07:43 AM
"War on" and "control" just means the middle man gets to charge a higher price.

Enforcement is a joke.

midcan5
07-30-2014, 07:49 AM
Eric agrees with you, more guns, more powerful guns, more automatic guns, that's what we need. "Eric manufactured three more pipe bombs: the Charlie batch. Then he halted production until December. What he needed was guns. And that was becoming a problem.

Eric had been looking into the Brady Bill. Congress had passed the law restricting the purchase of most popular semiautomatic machine guns in 1993. A federal system of instant background checks would soon go into effect. Eric was going to have a hard time getting around that.


"Fuck you Brady!" Eric wrote in his journal. All he wanted was a couple of guns - "and thanks to your fucking bill I will probably not get any!" He wanted them only for personal protection, he joked: "Its not like I'm some psycho who would go on a shooting spree. fuckers."


Eric frequently made his research do double duty for both schoolwork and his master plan. He wrote up a short research assignment on the Brady Bill that week. It was a good idea in theory, he said, aside from the loopholes. The biggest problem was that checks applied only to licensed dealers, not private dealers. So two-thirds of the licensed dealers had just gone private. "The FBI just shot themselves in the foot," he concluded."


Eric was rational about his firepower. "As of this date I have enough explosives to kill about 100 people," he wrote. With axes, bayonets, and assorted blades, he could maybe take out ten more. That was as far as hand to-hand combat would get him. A hundred and ten people. "that just isn't enough!"


"Guns!" the entry concluded. "I need guns! Give me some fucking firearms! " p.280 'Columbine' by Dave Cullen [bold added]

And another good reason. Kill em all and then happiness will follow.

"Our capitalist class may be becoming an absolute danger to ordinary Americans. By promoting a doctrine of absolute right to gun ownership (which rather helps gun manufacturers) and at the same time encouraging people to hate the Federal government and resent paying taxes, they are creating a whole class of alienated far right shooters....The American far Right, with its white supremacism, fascination with guns and explosives, profound hatred for the Federal government, poses the biggest terrorism threat in the country by far." http://www.juancole.com/2014/06/terrorist-attacks-america.html

Alyosha
07-30-2014, 07:50 AM
"War on" and "control" just means the middle man gets to charge a higher price.

Enforcement is a joke.


And the party line is "well, we have to do something!".

Why? I could MAYBE understand if every city in America was Chicago, but the fact is the high murder rates are (ironically) in the blue states that have gun control. It's not like people in Scottsville, BA walk out their doors and worry that they'll get shot today, and heck even in Chicago a city of 3 million, losing 24 over a weekend is probably less than died from auto crashes.

Liberals are just so illogical and overly emotional on this topic.

Captain Obvious
07-30-2014, 07:51 AM
Eric agrees with you, more guns, more powerful guns, more automatic guns, that's what we need. "Eric manufactured three more pipe bombs: the Charlie batch. Then he halted production until December. What he needed was guns. And that was becoming a problem.

Eric had been looking into the Brady Bill. Congress had passed the law restricting the purchase of most popular semiautomatic machine guns in 1993. A federal system of instant background checks would soon go into effect. Eric was going to have a hard time getting around that.


"Fuck you Brady!" Eric wrote in his journal. All he wanted was a couple of guns - "and thanks to your fucking bill I will probably not get any!" He wanted them only for personal protection, he joked: "Its not like I'm some psycho who would go on a shooting spree. fuckers."


Eric frequently made his research do double duty for both schoolwork and his master plan. He wrote up a short research assignment on the Brady Bill that week. It was a good idea in theory, he said, aside from the loopholes. The biggest problem was that checks applied only to licensed dealers, not private dealers. So two-thirds of the licensed dealers had just gone private. "The FBI just shot themselves in the foot," he concluded."


Eric was rational about his firepower. "As of this date I have enough explosives to kill about 100 people," he wrote. With axes, bayonets, and assorted blades, he could maybe take out ten more. That was as far as hand to-hand combat would get him. A hundred and ten people. "that just isn't enough!"


"Guns!" the entry concluded. "I need guns! Give me some fucking firearms! " p.280 'Columbine' by Dave Cullen [bold added]

And another good reason. Kill em all and then happiness will follow.

"Our capitalist class may be becoming an absolute danger to ordinary Americans. By promoting a doctrine of absolute right to gun ownership (which rather helps gun manufacturers) and at the same time encouraging people to hate the Federal government and resent paying taxes, they are creating a whole class of alienated far right shooters....The American far Right, with its white supremacism, fascination with guns and explosives, profound hatred for the Federal government, poses the biggest terrorism threat in the country by far." http://www.juancole.com/2014/06/terrorist-attacks-america.html

Is it like rule #1 in the progressive's handbook to immediately gravitate to shit-the-bed material on every political topic?

Alyosha
07-30-2014, 07:51 AM
Eric agrees with you, more guns, more powerful guns, more automatic guns, that's what we need.

Obviously, you didn't read the article or watch the video. You can't stop people from owning guns anymore. They can just make them at home now.

That's what threats of gun control did.

Captain Obvious
07-30-2014, 07:52 AM
And the party line is "well, we have to do something!".

Why? I could MAYBE understand if every city in America was Chicago, but the fact is the high murder rates are (ironically) in the blue states that have gun control. It's not like people in Scottsville, BA walk out their doors and worry that they'll get shot today, and heck even in Chicago a city of 3 million, losing 24 over a weekend is probably less than died from auto crashes.

Liberals are just so illogical and overly emotional on this topic.

Analogy alert.

The roof is leaking, two options. Tear up the old shingles and paper and re-paper/shingle it or just cover it with plastic.

Covering it with plastic is a whole lot cheaper and easier and the roof will likely still leak.

Gun control is plastic sheeting.

donttread
07-30-2014, 07:52 AM
Just like the useless war on drugs, prohibition on a desired product not only fails to reduce the circulation of that product, but it creates more crime, a new criminal class of people who heretofore did not break the law, and reduces the ability of society and/or government to actual impose direction.

People who want drugs buy them regardless of the law.

Exotic pets, Cuban cigars, drugs, whole people illegally crossing borders cannot be stopped. This is obvious to most, which is why prohibition is NOT about drugs, it's about control. Same with gun control the tittle is just more honest

Unlike drugs, however, which require a particular climate to grow in, guns (once prohibited) can just be fabricated at home.

http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/04/18/cody-wilson-happiness-is-a-3-d-printed-g





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fhBBipU3w


So now that the state pushed too hard, the result is that innovators have come up with easy ways of thwarting the government control by creating a plastic gun that fires and is undetectable. And the resistance to these stupid laws isn't just an "underground" experience. A good example is that of Spice, K-2, and other "fake pot" products that were released to the public. The DEA and FDA made their formulas illegal, then makers made different formulas. After awhile the government gave up because it couldn't keep up. The same will be true of guns. Innovation is faster than legislation.

It's pointless to make laws that hinder non-violent people. It's expensive and fails every single time.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/e1/b3/dce1b3c33c4dbb11694cc4c8f0adf50b.jpg

Paperback Writer
07-30-2014, 08:01 AM
"Our capitalist class may be becoming an absolute danger to ordinary Americans. By promoting a doctrine of absolute right to gun ownership (which rather helps gun manufacturers) and at the same time encouraging people to hate the Federal government and resent paying taxes, they are creating a whole class of alienated far right shooters....The American far Right, with its white supremacism, fascination with guns and explosives, profound hatred for the Federal government, poses the biggest terrorism threat in the country by far." http://www.juancole.com/2014/06/terrorist-attacks-america.html


What rubbish! You disregard that posit of the OP entirely. Are Americans so thick they don't learn from mistakes? You live in a society which likes guns, mate. That means people will own them. Just like drugs or expensive trainers, people will find a way to purchase what they desire, legally or illegally.

Only the daft would try to push for stricter gun control now that 3-D printers are available. You'll just create an even larger black market sentiment for them.

Ideology of modern liberalism is as ridiculous and religious as the Catholicism of the Middle Ages. You seek to change man's basic nature through some anti-evolutionary belief that man is good and was only programmed to be bad by religion and tradition. Man is a survivor and man has desires. You couldn't stop premarital or gay sex with all the religious doctrine in the world, or stopped people from taking drugs with a thousand laws.

You won't prevent yanks from owning guns, so look to other solutions, including your own failed social programming.

Cthulhu
07-30-2014, 09:31 PM
What rubbish! You disregard that posit of the OP entirely. Are Americans so thick they don't learn from mistakes? You live in a society which likes guns, mate. That means people will own them. Just like drugs or expensive trainers, people will find a way to purchase what they desire, legally or illegally.

Only the daft would try to push for stricter gun control now that 3-D printers are available. You'll just create an even larger black market sentiment for them.

Ideology of modern liberalism is as ridiculous and religious as the Catholicism of the Middle Ages. You seek to change man's basic nature through some anti-evolutionary belief that man is good and was only programmed to be bad by religion and tradition. Man is a survivor and man has desires. You couldn't stop premarital or gay sex with all the religious doctrine in the world, or stopped people from taking drugs with a thousand laws.

You won't prevent yanks from owning guns, so look to other solutions, including your own failed social programming.

It is amazing how some foreigners can see something patently obvious, while some of the natives play the mushroom - kept in the dark and fed *&#& while they grow.

Well put sir, well put.

Green Arrow
07-30-2014, 10:00 PM
Gun control is fail because statism is fail.

TheInternet
07-30-2014, 11:10 PM
I'm consistently amazed that people fight to be stripped of their rights. People literally protest, yell, scream to be less free. I don't get it; I'll never get it. It just doesn't make any damn sense.

Paperback Writer
07-31-2014, 07:25 AM
It is amazing how some foreigners can see something patently obvious, while some of the natives play the mushroom - kept in the dark and fed *&#& while they grow.

Well put sir, well put.

We've already been through this in the UK. The only blokes with guns are the exact sort you don't want to have them.

Gerrard Winstanley
07-31-2014, 07:29 AM
We've already been through this in the UK. The only blokes with guns are the exact sort you don't want to have them.
Cops.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF5f1xfGTFM

Paperback Writer
07-31-2014, 07:34 AM
Cops.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF5f1xfGTFM


I love how people think our cops don't carry guns.

Chris
07-31-2014, 07:39 AM
To me gun control is a failure for the simple fact the American people don't want it. Sure advocacy spikes every mass shooting but that's mainly a vociferous few and fades after a few days. Politicians won't vote gun control nationally because they want to keep their office.

Gerrard Winstanley
07-31-2014, 09:03 AM
I love how people think our cops don't carry guns.
We're not wholly disarmed, either. I used to have a rifle in the house, though we figured that was a bad idea when we moved into the town. My folks look after it now.

Paperback Writer
07-31-2014, 09:09 AM
We're not wholly disarmed, either. I used to have a rifle in the house, though we figured that was a bad idea when we moved into the town. My folks look after it now.

Yes, we can shoot birds in the country if we've the quid. I do know that the countryside is awash with guns. I say bloody good for them.

CreepyOldDude
07-31-2014, 12:23 PM
Just like the useless war on drugs, prohibition on a desired product not only fails to reduce the circulation of that product, but it creates more crime, a new criminal class of people who heretofore did not break the law, and reduces the ability of society and/or government to actual impose direction.

People who want drugs buy them regardless of the law.

Unlike drugs, however, which require a particular climate to grow in, guns (once prohibited) can just be fabricated at home.

http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/04/18/cody-wilson-happiness-is-a-3-d-printed-g





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fhBBipU3w


So now that the state pushed too hard, the result is that innovators have come up with easy ways of thwarting the government control by creating a plastic gun that fires and is undetectable. And the resistance to these stupid laws isn't just an "underground" experience. A good example is that of Spice, K-2, and other "fake pot" products that were released to the public. The DEA and FDA made their formulas illegal, then makers made different formulas. After awhile the government gave up because it couldn't keep up. The same will be true of guns. Innovation is faster than legislation.

It's pointless to make laws that hinder non-violent people. It's expensive and fails every single time.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/e1/b3/dce1b3c33c4dbb11694cc4c8f0adf50b.jpg

The technology has already passed Wilson's Liberator by. That gun could only be fired once per barrel, and required a 3-D printer that cost $8k used. There's already been a gun printed that can fire more than one round per barrel, and it was printed on a much cheaper printer. <Link (http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/20/25-gun-created-with-cheap-3d-printer-fires-nine-shots-video/)>

Note that the article is already over a year old. Since then, a company claims to have printed a metal pistol, based on the M1911. They claim to have fired more than 50 rounds with the weapon. <Link (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/innovation/3d-printed-metal-gun/)>

Wired has a good article on the subject, as well. <Link (http://www.wired.com/2014/05/3d-printed-guns/)>

Rebel Son
08-03-2014, 02:16 PM
We've already been through this in the UK. The only blokes with guns are the exact sort you don't want to have them.

I really hate to do this because I despise people who put up pics and videos that are meaningless. I think this one different. Ask Steve Lee what happened, same as Paperback Writer. They know exactly the truth that comes up from giving in to ridiculous shit by the government. Steve said it best,,,"Nobody shoots at me, cause I've got a gun".

Second video has been claimed by every state in the union. Still I figure each has the capability. I pulled this one off the net and it says Alabama. These people exist in every state and are more common than you think. They have the required federal fire arms documents required to own the weapons.

This is not Randy Weaver in a cabin in the woods attacked by the powers to be.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOsOc83xbs