View Full Version : Astrology is Introduction to Philosophy
dattaswami
04-30-2012, 08:42 PM
Astrology is Introduction to Philosophy
Actually, the basic concept of astrology indicates that there is the existence of some unimaginable supernatural force that guides this world. Hence, astrology is an introduction for the philosophy. Without taking this basic reality, you misuse the astrology to justify yourself by linking your wrong actions to the planets. The worship of the supernatural and unimaginable planets introduces the worship of unimaginable God. But, this is again misused as the worship of the planet for not giving the bad result for the bad action done by you.
If you worship God, He will preach you the right knowledge, which changes the total destiny. By your worship, God will not protect you from your sins. Therefore, in this world, the destiny is also in your hands only. There is full freedom for you to change your destiny through the right knowledge. Hence, this world of humanity is called as ‘Karma Loka’, which means that your actions decide everything and that your action is based on your psychological pattern only and not by any pre-determined external destiny. The upper worlds are called as ‘Bhoga Lokas’ because there is no freedom to perform any new action and you have no freedom at all, but for enjoying the destined results for your already recorded actions.
‘Pravrutti’ means attachment to worldly bonds. ‘Nivrutti’ is detachment of your worldly bonds for the sake of God. This world is the stage for both pravrutti and nivrutti. Full freedom up to the level of changing your destiny exists here. Your destiny is only your fixed psychological pattern generated from the past deeds and not any other external force. This pattern can be changed by the right knowledge received from God in the form of preacher. Therefore, there is every chance for changing your destiny in this world. Generally, people blame the reason for their bad actions to be some external force called as destiny in which there is no trace of their personal psychological involvement. People say, ‘People say so’. The people cannot be the authority unless the whole subject is perfectly analyzed. Even there are several misinterpretations in books written by ancestral scholars. You should not blindly take the people or the ancient books as authority without analyzing them perfectly. The Gita says that you will laugh at such authorities if you analyze the subject with sharp scientific intelligence (Buddhyaayukto…).
Even if the implementation is impossible, it is better to have the right knowledge, which follows the soul to the next birth so that the practical implementation can be done sometime in the future. This point looks quite good, but there is the practical danger. Just like the cooked food can be attacked by the bacteria in the atmosphere, the right knowledge is also attacked by the worldly attractions and sometimes, the right knowledge may become weaker and weaker and even may finally disappear even in the later part of this life. Therefore, it is better to implement the realized concept as early as possible like eating the cooked food immediately.
LTNS datta.....
Astrology consists of a number of belief systems (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Belief_systems) which hold that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events in the human world. In the West, astrology most often consists of a system of horoscopes (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Horoscope) that claim to predict aspects of an individual's personality or life history based on the positions of the sun, moon, and other planetary objects at the time of their birth. Many cultures have attached importance to astronomical events, and the Indians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Hindu_astrology), Chinese (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chinese_astrology), and Mayans (http://thepoliticalforums.com/w/index.php?title=Mayan_astrology&action=edit&redlink=1) developed elaborate systems for predicting terrestrial events from celestial observations.....snip~
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology
Althought if you were looking at the Zodiac such would be the Wests Version to the Wheel of Samsara, or the Wheel of Awagawan. Yet not taken with the context of that Journey of Soul in the Birth and Rebirth.
dattaswami
04-30-2012, 09:04 PM
LTNS datta.....
Astrology consists of a number of belief systems (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Belief_systems) which hold that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events in the human world. In the West, astrology most often consists of a system of horoscopes (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Horoscope) that claim to predict aspects of an individual's personality or life history based on the positions of the sun, moon, and other planetary objects at the time of their birth. Many cultures have attached importance to astronomical events, and the Indians (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Hindu_astrology), Chinese (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chinese_astrology), and Mayans (http://thepoliticalforums.com/w/index.php?title=Mayan_astrology&action=edit&redlink=1) developed elaborate systems for predicting terrestrial events from celestial observations.....snip~
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology
Althought if you were looking at the Zodiac such would be the Wests Version to the Wheel of Samsara, or the Wheel of Awagawan. Yet not taken with the context of that Journey of Soul in the Birth and Rebirth.
No doubt horoscope is the telescope for seeing the cycle of deeds. God has already arranged the happiness and misery in alternating way. The periods of nine planets rotate in a cycle. Each period has sub-periods of the nine planets again as a sub-cycle. This means that while eating a sweet dish a secondary hot dish is also introduced. The horoscope is a beautiful arrangement of your deeds in alternating way by the divine Father who has immense affection on the souls. The total period of the nine planets is 120 years. For each Zodiat of birth (Janma raasi) there will be a continuous ascending period of sixty years and another continuous descending period of 60 years.
One may be born in the beginning or in the middle or in the end part of ascending period or descending period depending upon his previous interference through rituals. Mesha, Karkataka, Simha, Vrischika, Dhanush and Meena zodiats have the beginning of ascending period of 60 years which ends with the period of Jupiter. For other zodiats the ascending period of 60 years starts with the period of Saturn for 60 years which ends with the period of Venus. Thus one is born with an ascending period of 60 years or with a descending period of 60 years or at any point between these two periods. If a person is born in Mesha, starting with the period of Sun, the 60 years life time is ascending. If the same is born with the period of Saturn, the person will have a descending period of 60 years. A realized soul dragged back the fruits of bad deeds from the present life cycle, will be born in the beginning of ascending periods. If the ignorant soul dragged back the fruits of good deeds from the present cycle, he will be born in the beginning of descending period. If the whole life is with happiness or misery the person will be bored. The reason for such boring is only the person himself who has interfered with the good arrangement of God. Therefore Jesus said that let the will of God happen always. However for ignorant souls also the God made some compensation by introducing the sub-periods of all the nine planets in the main period of each planet. Thus a secondary alternative arrangement of side dishes is done by the Godmother because the children are ignorant of even the technology of eating!
Jyotisham (Astrology) is the subject which relates to Jyoti or planet. The actual meaning of Jyoti is only God. According to the Veda (Param Jyotirupasampadyate) and the Brahma Sutras (refer the sutra of Jyotiradhikaranam). Jyoti means light. The planet is like the jailor guiding you to the jail where you will enjoy the misery or is like a guide who guides you to a bar like heaven where you will drink and sleep. The planet guides you to the fruit of your deed. It is called as Graha which means that it will capture you wherever you are present to deliver the fruit of your deed to you at the exact fraction of second. It is a computerized system of deeds and fruits. This computer does all the calculations and is called as Chitra Gupta. Chitra Gupta means the protector of witness through the audio and video system. All your thoughts, words and deeds are recorded and will be exhibited as witness in the upper world. The judge does not require any type of other witness. There is no need of an advocate and therefore such provision does not exist. You will just see and hear your thoughts, words and deeds in the audio and video system (Chitra Gupta) and an automatic judgment is delivered by another system called as Yama.
There is no possibility of doing any ritual there since it is only a place of enjoyment of fruits (Bhoga Loka). All the heavenly pleasures and hell - punishments are given according to periods of another horoscope that is prepared based on the time of death. Thus the wheel of the planets is the executive system of the soul in this world as well as in the upper world. Yama is the son of the Sun like Saturn, is also the controlling powerful planet in the upper world. The Lord is all in all and is the employer of the planets. The planets function due to the fear about Lord. The Veda says the same (Bhishodeti Suryah). Astrologers are like the elementary school teachers and should become spiritual gurus like professors. The priests and the astrologers should rise in their standards and guide the people to the spiritual path. Instead of doing so, both have colluded and are doing business by exploiting the public.
The astrologer takes some money for studying the horoscope and recommends the Japam of a planet. The priest does it and gives commission to the astrologers. It is like a doctor referring the patient to the laboratory for diagnosis for getting the commission. The whole spirit is lost and the spiritual path is lost long back in this Kali Yuga. The priests and the astrologers say a story that even Lord Shiva suffered due to Saturn. The story is only a creation for promoting the business. Even if you believe the story, you can take it in positive sense. You can understand that even the Lord respects the cycle of deeds. What sin Lord Shiva did to undergo the affect of Saturn? The story is foolish even at the root. Let us assume that even Lord Shiva has to suffer the affect of Saturn for a bad deed. If that is so, how can an ordinary human being escape the same type of effect with the help of this petty priest and petty astrologer?
Astrology is elementary level of spiritual knowledge which introduces the super-natural power that is beyond the science. This should finally lead to the existence of unimaginable God beyond logic and science. Astrology is not allowed to grow to become philosophy by these commercial intellectuals. Its growth is arrested and is limited so that the exploitation of devotees can take place. Astrology should be allowed to become philosophy. The school education should grow to become the university standard. The priests and astrologers should develop to become spiritual gurus. Otherwise they are doing sin in the name of God which will affect them here and there.
The astrologers have developed a wrong concept in astrology by which the people think that they are receiving good or bad affects accidentally by the movement of planets without reference to their deeds. It is just like saying that one is arrested by police on a road because while he was standing on the road, the police incidentally came there and captured him. He is feeling that his arrest was due to the incidental meeting with the police on the road and the arrest happened without any reason. Similarly people are thinking that the bad results are achieved by the incidental movement of the planets and their periods. This is complete nonsense. The planets are very disciplined and regular in their movements. Since you are proved as a thief and your arrest is ordered by the court, the police have arrested you with the exact background. You pose as if you are innocent and the arrest is simply incidental due to movement of police meeting you accidentally. You may escape the police for sometime even after the order from the court, but the planet catches you exactly in the same fraction of second as soon of the order from the divine court is released.
dattaswami
04-30-2012, 09:04 PM
In fact the results of deeds of any human being are mainly postponed after the death to the upper world. The results of all your deeds are not given in this world especially when you are in the human life which is very rare. The main aim of this very rare human life is that you should recognize the God and obtain His grace before the end of this human life. This human life is mainly meant for such effort (Saadhana) and therefore this world is called as Karma Loka. You will not be always disturbed with the enjoyment of fruits of your deeds in this world because the main purpose will not be served in this little precious time of human life. When the student is occupied in the studies in the period of preparation for examination, the principal will not disturb him either by punishments or by encouraging cultural activities. Once the examinations are over there is a long vacation time in which these can be take up.
Similarly there is lot of time after death and therefore the fruits of the deeds are mainly given after the death in a separate world called as Bhoga Loka. The earth is meant for the karma to be done to recognize the human form of the Lord and get guidance and practice it to please God. Therefore a separate time and a separate world (hell & heaven) are meant for this purpose. People who do not know the main aim of human life and the significance of this karma loka are worried for not seeing the results here itself immediately. This is the main aim of creation of hell and heaven separately as the upper worlds. However the results of some deeds are released here itself in case they can activate the soul in the spiritual line. With such aim certain effects of misery to divert the soul to the God and certain effects of happiness as alternative intervals for encouragement are released.
Without understanding the significance of these effects, people either sleep and become lazy in happiness or get worried and feel tensions in misery. When such effects have no use on the spiritual line, the soul is released from the gross body and is pushed to Bhoga Loka and further cycles of animals and birds in a condemned state. Thus the ultimate aim of human life and the ultimate aim of the good and bad results must be realized in the light of the spiritual divine path. This human life is not just for the mechanical deeds and corresponding results like a routine machine.
In that with dealing of the physical mainly. Such as the moon affecting water and with heavenly bodies in some sort of alignment. But I agree with you on the aspect of using it with looking at what can be good or bad.
Althought then you would also need to look at seers. Or those that are into the Cabala. Mystical Arts etc etc. Most Holy books state there were wizards and wtiches upon theearth. Yet how many were classified as such because they were studying astrology and the stars.
dattaswami
04-30-2012, 10:09 PM
In that with dealing of the physical mainly. Such as the moon affecting water and with heavenly bodies in some sort of alignment. But I agree with you on the aspect of using it with looking at what can be good or bad.
Althought then you would also need to look at seers. Or those that are into the Cabala. Mystical Arts etc etc. Most Holy books state there were wizards and wtiches upon theearth. Yet how many were classified as such because they were studying astrology and the stars.
Astrology should be understood in right perspective
Continuous difficulties bore the soul and the attitude of God as the divine father is to make the souls happy and not to bore.
For this purpose He arranged the cycles of the lives with alternative happiness and misery. Unless the soul is a demon, it cannot get continuous difficulties because a demon only does continuous sins. A human being is neither a bad demon nor a good angel. He is a mixture of both (Anistamistam Mishramcha….- Gita). Therefore, continuous problems cannot be accommodated in the cycle of deeds of human beings. Hence, happiness has to come after some period of misery like winter after summer or day after night. In such case the problem of devotion to God during the period of happiness becomes impossible.
Therefore, some clue should be adopted to foresee the misery in the future so that God can be worshipped even during the period of happiness to avoid the misery in future. The knowledge of alternating happiness and misery of the cycle of deeds is sufficient to realize the misery in the future. But for ordinary ignorant human beings such general concept will not give a real psychological effect. Unless an individual case is specified and unless the misery in the future is specifically indicated, the human being will not take up the worship of God with utmost care during happiness. For this purpose only, the subject of Astrology is born. By Astrology an individual can foresee the misery in the future.
Astrology is Jyotisha Shastram, which means the science of light. It is the torchlight to foresee the misery in the future. It shows both misery and happiness in the future. But a human being will be alert only to avoid the misery in the future by taking some action in the present as prevention. If the misery appears after a long time, the human being will again sleep in the present happiness. Therefore, the design of the recycling periods of the nine planets (Dasha) is arranged in a wonderful manner so that you can see some misery even in the next hour. This is done by the system of Dasa – Antardasha – Vidasha – Sukshma Dasha – Prana Dasha etc., among these nine planets some planets are good and some planets are certainly bad for any Zodiac (Raasi) in which one is born.
By these systems of period, sub-periods, sub sub-periods etc., one can find the involvement of a bad planet (intensity may vary) even in the next hour. Based on this system only astrologers can calculate the time of the incident very precisely even up to hours and minutes. Therefore, Astrology helps the human being to foresee the misery in the future and advises to avoid the misery by worship of God and by doing certain specified sacrifice (Daanam). This covers both theoretical and practical devotion continuously through out the life. Therefore, Astrology is justified because the ends justify the means. In fact it is a part of spiritual knowledge because God is also mentioned as the ultimate light (Paramjyoti rupasampadya - Veda, Jyotiridhikaranam of Brahma Sutras). Hence, these torch lights of the planets acting as secondary lights help the human being to worship the main ultimate light (God).
Today the human beings approach astrologers and hear the prophecy for one year. There was no difference between the Satguru (God in Human form) and Astrologer because the Satguru adopts the method of Astrology for ordinary ignorant human beings to create interest in God. In the beginning the interest may be as means but slowly on realizing the taste of God, they may become real devotees. This is the right spirit and direction of our tradition. If you observe today you can find the fate of such well-established divine tradition. The astrologer is not at all a Satguru.
He is just giving the prophecy to collect some money on that day for the prophecy. He also designs the future plan of his work in the year to earn money through the remedies suggested and his prophecy is just the annual financial budget. He sows the seed of fear of future misery in the minds of some rich people so that the future remedies can give some financial benefits to him or to his secret partners who are the priests involved in such remedies. Astrology is a part of the divine philosophy because the planets are the executive authorities of implementing the cycle of deeds based on the constitution spelled by God.
If you insult the astrology, God will also be furious because if a constable is insulted, the state police authority will feel seriously. Astrology is expected to lead the ordinary ignorant human beings into the spiritual path. If the astrologer realizes this truth and behaves accordingly, God will be pleased with him because astrologer will become a servant in the divine mission of the Lord. In such case all the problems of the astrologer will be taken care of by the divine grace and he need not worry about himself any more. The ordinary human souls are always like children who will sit and study only due to fear of cane appearing before their eyes and such cane is the misery in the future indicated by the astrologer. Either devotion or fear (Bhakti or Bhayam) can give fruit. If devotion is impossible the fear is used to develop the devotion at the ground level.
Yet except for that human factor. Wherein the greed of man comes along with an intrepretation. Such as the grifter!
dattaswami
04-30-2012, 11:49 PM
Yet except for that human factor. Wherein the greed of man comes along with an intrepretation. Such as the grifter!
The Sutras written by Jaimini are the fundamental basis of Astrology and also Purva Mimamsa. Jaimini indicates various forms of God for remedy to various human beings according to their qualities. Vishnu (Saturn and Mercury), Lakshmi (Moon and Venus), Shiva (Jupiter), Skanda (Mars), Durga (Rahu) and some village deities (Ketu) are such divine forms mentioned by Jaimini. This shows that he is bringing up the ordinary human beings through cane of fear to the level of devotion.
The Uttara Mimamsa of Vyasa finally concentrates on establishing the unity (Brahman) of these divine forms. Both Jaimini and Vyasa constitute the two gradual steps in the spiritual progress. They are not opposite to each other. They sat as Judges for the debate between Shankara and Mandana Mishra and this shows the correlation between these two steps. Jaimini concentrates on sacrifice (Yajna) and even a large extent of Veda gives stress on sacrifice, which is the donation of prepared food to a deserving guest. The food indicates sacrifice of fruit of work (Karma Phala Tyaga) of the man and also the sacrifice of work (Karma Sansya) of his wife in the process of cooking the food. Hence, it is a complete sacrifice, which is the result of devotion. Devotion is the result of knowledge. Only the service involving sacrifice alone can yield the fruit. This is the spirit of stress on Yajna by Veda.
Without understanding it, people give importance to knowledge and devotion. Almost all Veda is concentrating on Yajna. If Yajna is nothing, why Veda has given so much importance by covering it to a very large extent? The followers of Jaimini gave importance to mere sacrifice without God. Mere social service without God is of very little use since it gives only temporary heaven. Hence, Jaimini joined the sacrifice with devotion to divine forms.
D-Swammi.....what can you tell me about the Journey of Soul? Are you familiar with the Wheel of Samsara or the Wheel of Awagawan? Also you are aware that Astrology changed with the Gregorian Calendar.....correct?
dattaswami
05-02-2012, 07:28 AM
D-Swammi.....what can you tell me about the Journey of Soul? Are you familiar with the Wheel of Samsara or the Wheel of Awagawan? Also you are aware that Astrology changed with the Gregorian Calendar.....correct?
The human being is entangled in the cycle of deeds called as karma chakra. The thought in the mind is the seed, which grows and generates action. The action certainly gives its result. Even if you escape the result of your action in this world you cannot escape from it in the upper world. In fact the result in the upper world is very severe due to the compounded interest due to the delay in getting the result. Therefore blessed are those who are punished in this world itself. Jesus says “It is better to punish yourself for your sin in this world itself than to fall into eternal hell”.
The punishment reduces the thought (which caused the deed) to the state of a tiny seedling. However the punishment cannot destroy the thought completely. The thought exists in a very minute called the state of subconsciousness. Even you are not aware of your subconscious thought. When the soul comes from hell to the earth and enters a new human body, the child contains all the qualities or thoughts of previous births, hidden in the subconscious state. Therefore the child is unaware of anything and appears to be the most innocent and sacred. In the child the thoughts are like seeds that have not germinated. Whatever may be the external atmosphere in which the child grows; those strong thoughts will certainly germinate and grow up to be tender plants if not strong trees. But if the external atmosphere is favorable, the strong thoughts become trees, and weak thoughts will become plants. These germinated thoughts will result in corresponding actions. The actions will give their own fruits whether here or there.
The fruits are the punishments, which will again reduce the thoughts to seeds. This is the cycle of the deeds. When it is said that you are enjoying the fruit of the action of your previous birth, it has to be understood in the context of this cycle. The action of your previous birth was punished in hell and has reduced your thought to the form of a seed. In this birth the seed grows and results in its corresponding action. Such action can give you its result in this world if you are captured here itself. The judicial system in this world also functions under the direction of the Lord only. If you have escaped the judicial system in this world, it too is by the will of Lord alone. The Lord might have judged your case and might have given you a chance of transformation. Sometimes you are punished wrongly in a case. Do not abuse the court or God. Perhaps you are punished for some other sin. Do not think that you have escaped a punishment that you deserve just because the court finds you ‘not guilty’. Perhaps God is directing you for a severe punishment in hell, which cannot be provided by the court here. Therefore do not think that you have fooled the court or that the deity of justice is blind with a cloth tied on her eyes. Even this court is functioning according to the will of the Lord because the Lord governs everybody and everything in this world. Therefore do not blame God or do not say that God does not exist if some criminal escapes punishment of human courts.
Destroying the Seed
Now the main point is how to escape from this cycle? You cannot escape from this cycle by preventing the deed or punishment. If you are tied with a rope, you will not do the deed as long as you are tied. You will do the deed as soon as you are released from the rope. You may escape the result of your deed here by someone’s recommendations, but you cannot escape from it in hell. The only way to stop this cycle is to destroy the thought which is the initiating seed of this cycle. How to destroy it?
The seed is a thought which is a living property (sentient property) or a property of life. If it were an inert property like light or heat, it could be prevented by physical methods. Only knowledge, which is another living property, can destroy this thought. Only a diamond can cut another diamond. The wrong knowledge, which generates this sin, is dangerous. Ignorance, which is zero, is better than wrong knowledge, which is minus (negative). Therefore only righteous knowledge can destroy wrong thoughts. You can differentiate the right knowledge from the wrong knowledge through careful, patient analysis and discrimination. The knowledge of God alone can create devotion in your mind and develop it. Thus by knowledge alone can you get rid of this cycle and attain and please God. Shankara says “Jnanat eva tu kaivalyam”, which means that knowledge alone can give salvation. Jesus preached the same spiritual knowledge throughout His life.
D-Swammi.....I understand the Buddhist rendition. But could you please answer the questions. Without going into cycles and or karmic deeds. And thanks for responding back. I will get to your other Threads too. :wink:
gophangover
05-02-2012, 08:41 AM
The three wise men that came to Jesus' birth, followed a star using astrology and astronomy.
dattaswami
05-02-2012, 10:19 AM
In that with dealing of the physical mainly. Such as the moon affecting water and with heavenly bodies in some sort of alignment. But I agree with you on the aspect of using it with looking at what can be good or bad.
Althought then you would also need to look at seers. Or those that are into the Cabala. Mystical Arts etc etc. Most Holy books state there were wizards and wtiches upon theearth. Yet how many were classified as such because they were studying astrology and the stars.
Some people ask from where Satan came and from what source he got his power? The answer is that the same producer and director of the movie, who appointed one actor as hero has appointed another as the villain. The villain is also remunerated like the hero. Sometimes the producer-cum-director can enter the movie in the role of a hero and such a role is called as the human incarnation of the Lord. The villain opposes the hero in the cinema. The hero wins over the villain, giving a good message to the spectators. But remember that the hero, who is the producer, has remunerated the villain and also directed every action of the villain as the director of the whole picture.
Considering the Journey of Soul is already at the state of human consciousness.....do you accept that soul must live so many laqs in each birth sign? regardless of the karma debt from the previous birth. Good or Evil making no difference?
dattaswami
05-02-2012, 10:28 AM
Considering the Journey of Soul is already at the state of human consciousness.....do you accept that soul must live so many laqs in each birth sign? regardless of the karma debt from the previous birth. Good or Evil making no difference?
The soul is one in the sense of its basic form as inert energy, which is the material of this entire Universe. In that sense, the soul is inert energy and the soul is never taken in that basic sense. The soul is taken as pure awareness, which is the special work form of inert energy.
In such case the souls are many even though you may argue that every soul is pure awareness only. In this sense the soul is limited to the human body and the awareness is absent in the gap existing between human bodies. The awareness is absent even in some parts of the body like hair and nails. The awareness is discontinuous. Suppose you have taken the lump of iron, which consists of atoms of iron having the same matter and atomic structure. We say that there are many iron atoms in the lump of iron because there is gap between the atoms.
You cannot say that the entire lump is one single atom of iron. You cannot say that the entire lump of iron is only one single item, which is inert energy because the matter present in all the atoms is only basic energy. The space between atoms can be also considered as subtle form of energy and thus the entire lump of iron is a single homogeneous lump of inert energy only. The word atom stands for a particle of the matter and not energy. Similarly, the soul is fixed in the sense of pure awareness and therefore a single unit of homogeneous soul consisting of all the human beings cannot be achieved, which is against to the practical experience (Anubhava Pramanam).
In the above example the matter and the atomic structure are common in all the atoms. But in the case of souls only the awareness is common but not the qualities, which are different structures of awareness. When God charges the soul like Krishna, He charged only the awareness in the body of Krishna and not the basic form of inert energy of the soul so that He can charge the entire Universe which is only different forms of the basic inert energy. If this is accepted, the entertainment of God from the Universe is violated because the scene of entertainment is always different from the seer.
The single homogeneous awareness in all the human beings is in qualitative sense but not in the sense of quantitative continuity. The gold is one and the same in two different jewels. Since gold is one and the same, if one jewel is purchased the other jewel must have been purchased by you without paying the cost of the other jewel, if your concept is true. You must know that the gold is same qualitatively in both the jewels but there is no quantitative continuity of gold in both the jewels.
dattaswami
05-02-2012, 10:31 AM
What is soul or Atman or causal body? Is it the awareness present in the nervous system? Or is it the inert energy present in the brain? The concept of I exists in both. The egoism ‘I’ exists as a pulse in the brain in the inert energy and the same pulse exists in nervous system being experienced. If you say that the soul is awareness, it is born every day and it dies every day. This is the soul from one angle, which is mentioned by Gita (Athachainam Nityajatam…). Please note that this view is mentioned as an angle and is never condemned by Gita. From another angle, it is the inert energy present in the brain, which is eternal as mentioned in Gita (Ajo Nityah…). Awareness in the nervous system is in the form of work. Inert energy in the brain is in the form of energy.
In one angle the soul is specific work and in another angle soul is inert energy. Energy and work are inter-convertible and both are the same entity in different forms. Therefore, essentially it does not matter, whether you take the soul as work or energy. According to science even the matter is a form of energy only. Therefore, the gross body, which exists in deep sleep, is as good as the inert energy in brain or as good as the awareness in the basic sense in the nervous system. The gross body made of matter, the subtle body made of pulses (whether in the state of inert energy or in the state of awareness) and the causal body which is the inert energy in the brain or awareness in the nervous system are one and the same and come under one category called as creation.
The condensed energy is matter. Work is another form of the same energy. A scientist does not distinguish these three states. These three are the different forms of creation and creation is different from creator. Your analysis of these three states is of no use because you are dancing only in the same medium of creation with out touching the creator. Creation itself is work. It is work of the God. The working material is energy or matter or both. Energy and matter are also different works of God only. God is unimaginable and the work is imaginable. The link between work and God is again unimaginable. The link between a person and work is imaginable because both person and work are imaginable. Thus, there is no example in this world to imagine the God or to imagine the link with His work. Only the work is imaginable through which you can be sure of the existence of God. Thus, this wonderful Universe, which is the work of the God, proves the existence of God but the analysis of Universe neither gives any information about God nor any information about the link of Universe with God. The Universe indicates the existence of God but neither gives the information of God nor the experience of God.
After realising the existence of God, you can experience God through some item of the creation into which God entered. The best item of the Universe is the human being through which you can experience God and also clarify your doubts with God directly. If God exist in every human being, every human being should clarify your doubts. In fact since you are also one of the human beings and since God is in yourself also, you should clarify your own doubts, which means that you should not get any doubt and therefore no human being should have any doubt. Therefore, God enters into a specific human being only like Krishna or Jesus etc., who can alone clarify all your doubts and through whom alone you can experience God.
That doesnt answer the questions I asked, my friend. We can skip past that part of the basic concepts of soul and atoms. :wink:
dattaswami
05-02-2012, 10:43 AM
Considering the Journey of Soul is already at the state of human consciousness.....do you accept that soul must live so many laqs in each birth sign? regardless of the karma debt from the previous birth. Good or Evil making no difference?
Soul is in its basic form is energy only. This energy is eternal unless God wishes to destroy that energy also. Soul takes a body here after exhausting its life in energetic body in the upperworld. Thus souls comes back and forth.
Soul is in its basic form is energy only. This energy is eternal unless God wishes to destroy that energy also. Soul takes a body here after exhausting its life in energetic body in the upperworld. Thus souls comes back and forth.
Ah I see that you do. Birth and rebirth. Thanks
Perhaps soul has to experience those rebirths even if being evil. Or just good. This would still be part of Journey of Soul.
annata
05-02-2012, 03:35 PM
will have to read thru this. welcome dattaswami, i am bhodi, but not advanced
will have to read thru this. welcome dattaswami, i am bhodi, but not advanced
Yes, Annata and please help with the Communication with our friend as you are familiar with the specific terminology. I am sure you can provide some insight as well. :smiley:
annata
05-02-2012, 04:05 PM
Yes, Annata and please help with the Communication with our friend as you are familiar with the specific terminology. I am sure you can provide some insight as well. :smiley:
not sure, I am thinking this is Hindu -Buddhism grew out of Hindu(commonalitry of India) - but it's not god based. some of what I read i understand -some is not in my minds data base.
Why I said I must read it more carefully, not too familiar with Hindu; Jainism,,,,a little bit moreso
Buddhism (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Buddhism) and Jainism (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Jainism) are two branches of the Shramana (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Shramana) tradition that still exist today. Jainism has historically been largely confined to India (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/India), whereas Buddhism flourished beyond the borders of its country of origin where it declined during the Middle Ages (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Middle_Ages). Mahavira and Gautama Buddha were contemporaries and according to the Pali scriptures Gautama Buddha was aware of Mahavira's existence as well as his community of monks. Jainism and Buddhism share many features including much of the same terminology. There is no doubt that there was a mutual influence and reception of both religions although Jainism does appear to be an older spiritual tradition out of which Buddhism may have grown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Jainism
I agree it is out of the Hindu Stance. he did say Buddhism in one of earlier threads. As i have mentioned something to him concerning the Vedas and the Upanioshads. Yet the Journey of Soul or the Wheel Of Samsara or Awagawan should be familiar to D-Swammi. What I was trying to get him to look at was that Soul may be there for the purpose of the lesson in Birth and rebirth. Hence living a previous lifetime as Evil. Yet was meant to for the growth and development of the final product of the Soul-form.
dattaswami
05-02-2012, 11:50 PM
I agree it is out of the Hindu Stance. he did say Buddhism in one of earlier threads. As i have mentioned something to him concerning the Vedas and the Upanioshads. Yet the Journey of Soul or the Wheel Of Samsara or Awagawan should be familiar to D-Swammi. What I was trying to get him to look at was that Soul may be there for the purpose of the lesson in Birth and rebirth. Hence living a previous lifetime as Evil. Yet was meant to for the growth and development of the final product of the Soul-form.
The souls is given opportunity in this world to please God through service to Him. God comes to this world in human form and preaches the souls the divine knowledge. Thus souls are provided with this chance of hearing the divine knowledge and to practice it here itself. In this earth only the soul can do practical service or karma or action. God created this world for His entertainment. He is entertained the most when His created souls love Him. The love to God is proved by service to Him. God comes to this world in human form. When souls do not listen the divine knowledge and indulge in eating, drinking and only sex such souls will enter animal kingdom.
Some souls do social service without any concept of God such souls after death go to temporary heaven and falls back to this earth after the exhaustion of results of good deeds. The souls which do sins , after death go to hell and get the punishment to reduce their mentality. In all the aspects the souls are trained here as well as there to reduce its selfishness and attachment. Thus souls are being trained to realise the truth The truth is the God Himself.
D-Swammi.....What you describe is for the Physical Planes. Moreover if one has already reached self realization. There is only the Planes of the pure soul in the ascension to God-Realization.
Who created Evil? Or is it misintrepreted. Meaning more of the Negative or the Kal which comes from the Creator, God, or Supreme Being. There being two energies manifesting itself outward into all planes and the planes within planes. AKA: Realms. That which was created, All things would experience the Energies of the Creator. Animate and Inanimate.
Moreover once soul has already passed the forms of the Animal Kindom in describing other creatures outside of humanity. Soul would not revert Back to a lesser form of existence in the world of the Physical. Nor would it revert back down to some form of plant life. Soul is to experience all forms of manifestations of the Creator. Soul cannnot know Evil by studying evil. It can know Of Evil. Until living as such, it cannot even begin to understand any concepts as to the reason why for it. As it is the Creators purpose to let soul Choose, be given a choice, be given free will.
gophangover
05-03-2012, 10:10 AM
D-Swammi.....What you describe is for the Physical Planes. Moreover if one has already reached self realization. There is only the Planes of the pure soul in the ascension to God-Realization.
Who created Evil? Or is it misintrepreted. Meaning more of the Negative or the Kal which comes from the Creator, God, or Supreme Being. There being two energies manifesting itself outward into all planes and the planes within planes. AKA: Realms. That which was created, All things would experience the Energies of the Creator. Animate and Inanimate.
Moreover once soul has already passed the forms of the Animal Kindom in describing other creatures outside of humanity. Soul would not revert Back to a lesser form of existence in the world of the Physical. Nor would it revert back down to some form of plant life. Soul is to experience all forms of manifestations of the Creator. Soul cannnot know Evil by studying evil. It can know Of Evil. Until living as such, it cannot even begin to understand any concepts as to the reason why for it. As it is the Creators purpose to let soul Choose, be given a choice, be given free will.
I'm very impressed with your awareness of reality.
dattaswami
05-03-2012, 08:22 PM
Who created Evil? Or is it misintrepreted. .
People often get the doubt about the creation of bad in this world apart from good. Let us come to the original point. Again, another doubt comes that the creation of bad directly or indirectly spoils the souls and hence, it is objectionable. This objection is also ruled out because the process of examination of the souls is essential for giving the divine fruit. Unless the attraction to bad exists, there is no meaning of examination. The teacher always advises the students to concentrate on studies without going to cinema. Those who concentrated on studies resisting that attraction are rewarded. You cannot say that all the cinema theaters in the city should be destroyed so that the disturbance of concentration can be avoided. The theatre exists in the city to give entertainment to the retired public. Therefore, the aspect of the entertainment of the retired public cannot contradict the aspect of concentration of students on studies. You should not bring the retired public and the students on one line.
Similarly, you should not bring God and souls on one line. Moreover, unless the theatre exists, there is no meaning in the aspect of concentration on studies resisting the side attractions. If the side attraction is absent, where is the concept of concentration and where is the concept of examination? Such situation leads to meaningless dormant inactivity and lack of spirit of competition, which again bores the students themselves. Then, the students themselves will raise objection. Hence, the bad is created for the sake of the souls only.
God derives the entertainment from both good and bad and such entertainment is not wrong since bad is not created primarily for the sake of such entertainment only. The entertainment is only secondary since the creation of bad was not done at all for His entertainment. You need not object such entertainment of God when it is not the primary purpose. You cannot say that the founder of a college is responsible for the suicide of a student on failing in the examination. You say that if the founder has not established the college, this incident should not have happened and therefore, the founder is criminal and should be punished!
dattaswami
05-03-2012, 08:23 PM
Soul would not revert Back to a lesser form of existence in the world of the Physical. l.
God is loving every soul and is helping every soul in this world. He never hates any soul. The punishment in the hell is also to reduce madness of materialism of the soul. Suppose, one son becomes mad, the father will take him to the doctor and admits him in the mental hospital where shock treatments are given. Can you say that the father is angry with the son? Similarly, the hell is for the last sort of trial to transform the soul. The madness is never cured and the son has to be retained in the hospital only forever.
Same is the concept of the permanent hell. These souls cannot be brought into this world because they will bring Chaos in this world, just like the mad son cannot be brought out of the hospital into the society. Some souls are born as birds, animals etc., Here also only the love of God reflects. As a human being the soul was always interested in eating, drinking and sex only. The soul never turned to God. In such case there is no use of the intelligence of the human category, which is meant for analysis of truth. Therefore, the soul is placed in the cycle of animals, which are also happy like the human beings in eating, drinking and sex only. The human being may think that he may loose his beautiful wife and may have to live with a she-buffalo if he is born as he-buffalo. But the point is that when the soul is born as he-buffalo, the she-buffalo is as beautiful as the present ‘Miss world’!.
The grass will be as tasty as the sweet dish in the meals today. The soul cannot estimate the happiness of the animal while remaining in the human body. The same happiness is received by the souls in all types of bodies from eating, drinking and sex. What ever he desired, that is given to him by God without any disturbance. In the human life the spiritual knowledge is often disturbing him in achieving the continuous happiness from eating, drinking and sex. Therefore, God favored the soul by such animal-birth and this is not punishing the soul.
This means God is helping even His enemies. A father will never harm his issue even if it opposes him. He wants always the happiness of the child continuously. The devoted souls want to be with God and derive the divine bliss constantly. God provides opportunity for such devotees also to make them happy constantly by guiding them in achieving the real and highest devotion to Him. Therefore, you can see the same love of God on a devoted soul staying in His abode as an angel and also on a he-buffalo enjoying with the she-buffalo in a mud pond. Both are continuously happy in their own fields! At last God provided what ever the child desired. Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel. When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul. Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.
dattaswami
05-03-2012, 08:24 PM
As it is the Creators purpose to let soul Choose, be given a choice, be given free will.
This world of humanity is based on full freedom and absence of any forcible destiny. Here, you are free to do any type of work and no destiny forces you to do any specific work as said in the Gita (Na kartrutvam...). The concept of destiny exists only in the link of the specific work and the specific fruit. You have full freedom to put your finger in fire or water. No destiny forces you to put your finger in fire or water. The destiny lies only in the link between a specific work and corresponding specific fruit. It is destined that the fire burns your finger and the water keeps your finger cool. The destiny is not in the selection of the work.
You have put your finger in the fire due to ignorance or ego. After burning the finger, you may say that you have put the finger in the fire due to the destiny. God has destined the specific system, which links every action with a specific fruit. After putting your finger, God is not ordering the fire to burn it. The subsequent fruit for a specific work is already destined. God or the destiny does not interfere with the choice of your selection of a specific work. Even the so called past destiny does not interfere with your works. The composition of your psychology is fixed based on your past deeds. Thus, work is responsible for the will and the will is the generator of the work. Since the composition of your psychology is already based on your past deeds and is fixed, you can treat that as destiny and in such case, destiny is guiding everything.
The psychology is a specific pattern of ideas generated by the past deeds and it is called as ‘Samskara’. An idea can be changed by knowledge. Samskara is a fixed concept and the right knowledge is a group of right concepts. You have the opportunity of hearing the right knowledge since God comes to this world quite often in human form. You have the freedom to hear such divine knowledge or not to hear. You have also freedom to practice the knowledge or leave it without practice. At every step, the basic freedom is given. This human world is also the right place for testing the devotees and here also, the full freedom is protected. You are totally free to sacrifice anything or not to sacrifice anything even if God desires for it. God does not force you or threaten you or wash your brain in your sacrifice since such sacrifice is not real. God is pleased only with the real sacrifice done by the soul in the atmosphere of total freedom.
In the examination hall, you are totally free to answer the question paper to any extent or even to return the white paper without writing even a word. God preaches the total concept and in the stage of implementation of it, God does not influence your mind in any way. After teaching all the right knowledge through the Gita, Krishna said that the decision to fight or not is totally left to Arjuna (yathechchasi…). The basic reason is that God is not in need of anything from anybody. The sacrifice is not to satisfy God but only to uplift you. The sacrifice proves your real attachment to God and such real attachment is not in the benefit of God but it is only in your benefit. Krishna asked for the special gem from Satrajit, the father of Satyabhama. Krishna is not in need of that gem. He is the creator of that gem. Even without the help of that gem, He can create wealth. He can even stop the power of the gem to create the wealth. Krishna asked the gem from Satrajit because Satrajit cannot maintain it and will fall in trouble.
Only for the welfare of Satrajit, He asked him for that gem. But, Satrajit thought that Krishna asked that gem for His personal benefit and thereby, for His personal satisfaction. Such misunderstanding made Satrajit to refuse the gem.
People often get the doubt about the creation of bad in this world apart from good. Let us come to the original point. Again, another doubt comes that the creation of bad directly or indirectly spoils the souls and hence, it is objectionable. This objection is also ruled out because the process of examination of the souls is essential for giving the divine fruit. Unless the attraction to bad exists, there is no meaning of examination. The teacher always advises the students to concentrate on studies without going to cinema. Those who concentrated on studies resisting that attraction are rewarded. You cannot say that all the cinema theaters in the city should be destroyed so that the disturbance of concentration can be avoided. The theatre exists in the city to give entertainment to the retired public. Therefore, the aspect of the entertainment of the retired public cannot contradict the aspect of concentration of students on studies. You should not bring the retired public and the students on one line.
Similarly, you should not bring God and souls on one line. Moreover, unless the theatre exists, there is no meaning in the aspect of concentration on studies resisting the side attractions. If the side attraction is absent, where is the concept of concentration and where is the concept of examination? Such situation leads to meaningless dormant inactivity and lack of spirit of competition, which again bores the students themselves. Then, the students themselves will raise objection. Hence, the bad is created for the sake of the souls only.
God derives the entertainment from both good and bad and such entertainment is not wrong since bad is not created primarily for the sake of such entertainment only. The entertainment is only secondary since the creation of bad was not done at all for His entertainment. You need not object such entertainment of God when it is not the primary purpose. You cannot say that the founder of a college is responsible for the suicide of a student on failing in the examination. You say that if the founder has not established the college, this incident should not have happened and therefore, the founder is criminal and should be punished!
I would agree with you that they do not fully comprehend that Journey of Soul. Still soul is one in the same as the creator. Made of the same cloth. And soul always hears the Bani. Now whether the Soul undertands or comprehends that which it is hearing.....is another matter. Soul and the creator are made of the same thing. Which also includes the two energies of the creator.
Yet before the Soul of Man existed.....there still was those two distinct energies of the Creator. None may know what was created when if one could say the creator Slept or dreamed a little dream.
Moreover those that are Chelas and or those seeking that truth with all that they are.....would become aware of the Tree of Knowledge. Which is not tied to the physical universe.
God is loving every soul and is helping every soul in this world. He never hates any soul. The punishment in the hell is also to reduce madness of materialism of the soul. Suppose, one son becomes mad, the father will take him to the doctor and admits him in the mental hospital where shock treatments are given. Can you say that the father is angry with the son? Similarly, the hell is for the last sort of trial to transform the soul. The madness is never cured and the son has to be retained in the hospital only forever.
Same is the concept of the permanent hell. These souls cannot be brought into this world because they will bring Chaos in this world, just like the mad son cannot be brought out of the hospital into the society. Some souls are born as birds, animals etc., Here also only the love of God reflects. As a human being the soul was always interested in eating, drinking and sex only. The soul never turned to God. In such case there is no use of the intelligence of the human category, which is meant for analysis of truth. Therefore, the soul is placed in the cycle of animals, which are also happy like the human beings in eating, drinking and sex only. The human being may think that he may loose his beautiful wife and may have to live with a she-buffalo if he is born as he-buffalo. But the point is that when the soul is born as he-buffalo, the she-buffalo is as beautiful as the present ‘Miss world’!.
The grass will be as tasty as the sweet dish in the meals today. The soul cannot estimate the happiness of the animal while remaining in the human body. The same happiness is received by the souls in all types of bodies from eating, drinking and sex. What ever he desired, that is given to him by God without any disturbance. In the human life the spiritual knowledge is often disturbing him in achieving the continuous happiness from eating, drinking and sex. Therefore, God favored the soul by such animal-birth and this is not punishing the soul.
This means God is helping even His enemies. A father will never harm his issue even if it opposes him. He wants always the happiness of the child continuously. The devoted souls want to be with God and derive the divine bliss constantly. God provides opportunity for such devotees also to make them happy constantly by guiding them in achieving the real and highest devotion to Him. Therefore, you can see the same love of God on a devoted soul staying in His abode as an angel and also on a he-buffalo enjoying with the she-buffalo in a mud pond. Both are continuously happy in their own fields! At last God provided what ever the child desired. Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel. When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul. Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.
The creator has never destoyed any soul form that it has created. In Journey of Soul.....you are looking at the concept thru the physical sense. As again anything over the Ethereal Plane is that of Soul. This place you describe is of the Kal. The Negative aspect and energy of the Creator. On this Plane the Ruler is Kal Niranjan with that seat upon which exits the format you describe. Yet that is not purpose of Kal Niranjan. Some souls will not ascend above and beyond this point.
Only few ever become part of that Nature within The Tree of Knowledge. Being God realized and returning to the creator. Or even becoming a Co-worker for the creator. AKA what the West calls Angels and Demons.
Moreover Evil is beyond that of eating and drinking and sexual appetites.
It is believed that there were Words of Power. Words that could destroy and create. How can soul ever have contol over such as these if the Journey does not bring it to the God Realization. The Answer is.....it can't!
dattaswami
05-03-2012, 09:28 PM
I would agree with you that they do not fully comprehend that Journey of Soul. Still soul is one in the same as the creator. Made of the same cloth. And soul always hears the Bani. Now whether the Soul undertands or comprehends that which it is hearing.....is another matter. Soul and the creator are made of the same thing. Which also includes the two energies of the creator.
Yet before the Soul of Man existed.....there still was those two distinct energies of the Creator. None may know what was created when if one could say the creator Slept or dreamed a little dream.
Moreover those that are Chelas and or those seeking that truth with all that they are.....would become aware of the Tree of Knowledge. Which is not tied to the physical universe.
God generated the world and that God is both designer (Nimitta) and material cause (Upadanam) of the world.
If God is the material cause, a portion of God must have been modified into the world and in such case God is a little lesser than what He was. This is impossible (Purnamevaavashishyate…..Veda). If God remained the same even after the creation, the world should have been totally unreal because the material in the world must be unreal since it was not supplied from God. In such case there is no entertainment for God from the non-existent world. Even for God world has to exist for the sake of entertainment with real material in it.
In such case if the bloody soul says that the world is non-existent for it, it is highly mock, since the soul itself is a part of the creation. Thanks to science for the investigation of robot by which it is clearly proved that the pure awareness is simply a special work form of the inert energy working in a special technology. This helped a lot to understand that the pure awareness is only an item of the creation and not the creator beyond the space.
To remove this contradiction neither we can accept the real modification of God nor accept a separate independently existing material of the world, which is not generated from God. The followers of Ramanuja mocked at the concept of Shankara on this point that said that God is the material cause of the world. In order to avoid such criticism, Shankara has already told that God is the material cause through His power called as Maya. Hence, the power of God (Maya) is modified and not the original God.
The solar energy captured by the photochemical cell is modified into electrical energy and this does not mean that the sun is modified into electricity. Therefore, the third item (power of God) is now created as the meaning of the word Maya. The power of God is also wonderful and is also a permanently unimaginable item like God, which is beyond space and can never be analyzed by the science.
The follower of Ramanuja is again mocked by the followers of Madhva (along with the followers of Shankara also) who objected the modification of power of God. When the modification of power of God is treated as body of God by Ramanuja, the modification of the body of God is also equally objectionable like the modification of God directly. Ramanuja treated the modification product of the power of God as the body of God. In such case, the changes in the inert world and the sins of the souls also affect the body of God since Ramanuja treated souls also as a part of the body. In order to avoid all this criticism totally, Madhva treated the material of the world as a separate independent item like mud and God is treated as only the pot maker (designer). This ended the criticism finally and the process of creation is explained well without any objection to all the devotees.
God generated the world and that God is both designer (Nimitta) and material cause (Upadanam) of the world.
If God is the material cause, a portion of God must have been modified into the world and in such case God is a little lesser than what He was. This is impossible (Purnamevaavashishyate…..Veda). If God remained the same even after the creation, the world should have been totally unreal because the material in the world must be unreal since it was not supplied from God. In such case there is no entertainment for God from the non-existent world. Even for God world has to exist for the sake of entertainment with real material in it.
In such case if the bloody soul says that the world is non-existent for it, it is highly mock, since the soul itself is a part of the creation. Thanks to science for the investigation of robot by which it is clearly proved that the pure awareness is simply a special work form of the inert energy working in a special technology. This helped a lot to understand that the pure awareness is only an item of the creation and not the creator beyond the space.
To remove this contradiction neither we can accept the real modification of God nor accept a separate independently existing material of the world, which is not generated from God. The followers of Ramanuja mocked at the concept of Shankara on this point that said that God is the material cause of the world. In order to avoid such criticism, Shankara has already told that God is the material cause through His power called as Maya. Hence, the power of God (Maya) is modified and not the original God.
The solar energy captured by the photochemical cell is modified into electrical energy and this does not mean that the sun is modified into electricity. Therefore, the third item (power of God) is now created as the meaning of the word Maya. The power of God is also wonderful and is also a permanently unimaginable item like God, which is beyond space and can never be analyzed by the science.
The follower of Ramanuja is again mocked by the followers of Madhva (along with the followers of Shankara also) who objected the modification of power of God. When the modification of power of God is treated as body of God by Ramanuja, the modification of the body of God is also equally objectionable like the modification of God directly. Ramanuja treated the modification product of the power of God as the body of God. In such case, the changes in the inert world and the sins of the souls also affect the body of God since Ramanuja treated souls also as a part of the body. In order to avoid all this criticism totally, Madhva treated the material of the world as a separate independent item like mud and God is treated as only the pot maker (designer). This ended the criticism finally and the process of creation is explained well without any objection to all the devotees.
While Journey is Soul is looked at with humanity. Thats not to say that the creator did not create other souls. Albeit that life still having souls. Then again that which comes forth out of the manifestation of the negative or life created does not necessarily mean it was ever created to have a soul. Or that creation even has to be of the exact Physical universe as we know it. Where you speak of stars, suns, moons.
As we have leaned that the Astral Plane looks and is almost Identical to the Physical Plane. That the sheath that which covers soul at this point is also identical to the one that covers soul in the physical.
That which you describe as entertainment. Are the Immutable Laws of the Creator.
dattaswami
05-04-2012, 09:53 PM
That which you describe as entertainment. Are the Immutable Laws of the Creator.
Some people criticize that God is enjoying the creation by entertaining Himself while the souls are troubled with problems and the blame God with sadism. The entertainment of God is not at all the sadism. Sadism is based on two points. One is: that the sadism is exhibited in reality in the world and not in the imaginary world. For God, this world is imaginary and not real. However, the sadism in the imaginary world may also show the attitude towards sadism in the mind. Even that point is ruled out because the second point for the sadism is: that a sadist enjoys by torturing some innocent person without justified reason. Here in the case of God, the problem of the soul in the world is based on its own actions and the punishment is given based on perfect justice. Hence, the point of sadism cannot be attributed to God even in mind. Moreover, the soul is not concerned with the entertainment of God because the soul is not punished on any unjust reason.
If the soul follows the rules of God in the justice, no problem can be seen by the soul. A rich person started a college for entertainment or to escape the income tax on his wealth. This point is unnecessary for the student as long as the college is running on the rules of University. The student has scope to argue against the management provided any type of injustice takes place in teaching or in the examinations. As long as the academic program is perfectly implemented, the student has no scope of argument against the original intention of the management in starting the college. Only a student, who is not perfectly following the academic schedule, will bother about such irrelevant points to mask his own defects.
If some body still argues on this point due to foolishness, the only answer is that God is the supreme most boss and there is no body to argue with Him. If an ant comments on the driver of car, such comment is not even heard by the driver! Since you do not know all the actions of a soul from its childhood, you should not say that a particular soul is good and yet is punished without justice. Neither you are capable of noting all the actions of a soul nor you are capable of judging the action in depth. Shankara established the nature of the world as unreal by itself and is felt real as long as the world exists based on God. Such unreal world is imaginary. The dream cannot be real without its basic material, which is the soul or awareness.
Similarly, a pot without mud and a chain without gold are unreal and they are imaginary or illusory. But the world is imaginary to God only and not to your self. If you say that the world is imaginary for your self also and try to do sins, you will have to undergo all the punishments and you must feel the punishments also as imaginary like your sins! Your sins and their punishments are within the realm of the world only and hence both must be imaginary!
dattaswami
05-04-2012, 09:54 PM
The creator has never destoyed any soul form that it has created. In Journey of Soul.....you are looking at the concept thru the physical sense. As again anything over the Ethereal Plane is that of Soul. This place you describe is of the Kal. The Negative aspect and energy of the Creator. On this Plane the Ruler is Kal Niranjan with that seat upon which exits the format you describe. Yet that is not purpose of Kal Niranjan. Some souls will not ascend above and beyond this point.
Only few ever become part of that Nature within The Tree of Knowledge. Being God realized and returning to the creator. Or even becoming a Co-worker for the creator. AKA what the West calls Angels and Demons.
Moreover Evil is beyond that of eating and drinking and sexual appetites.
It is believed that there were Words of Power. Words that could destroy and create. How can soul ever have contol over such as these if the Journey does not bring it to the God Realization. The Answer is.....it can't!
God acts as Father as well as the teacher (Guru) in the case of any soul. Since God created the soul, He is the Father. But at the same time He is the teacher who trains every soul to come up in the spiritual path. Generally in the world the father is different since teacher is separate. But here in the case of any soul the real Father and the real teacher is only one and that is God. Therefore, God is always kind as Father and is strict and harsh as teacher. But the harshness of the teacher is apparent only and in reality the harshness is kindness only. Hence, basically God is always kind. God appears harsh as the teacher and appears kind as Father.
Since, the teacher is basically kind even in his harsh attitude also, God is always kind in reality or in the basic sense. The souls have done continuous sins and continuous good deeds and if the results are to be given based on the same sequence and span of time, there will be continuous punishments for long time and continuous happiness for another span of long time. Then it will be summer for one year and winter for one year. But the kindest God has re-arranged our results in such manner so that our human life is made with alternative good and bad results so that there will be summer for two months and winter for two months so that the two years are made with alternative couple of months of summer and winter. Neither summer nor winter bores with continuity and both summer and winter with the span of one year each gets exhausted.
The punishments are used to remove the ignorance and happiness is given as an interval between punishments. The punishments are also selected in such a way so that their intensity is suitable to the frequency of requirement for the transformation in the life again and again. This means that a particular soul requires a particular punishment of a specified intensity suitable to the degree of ignorance of the soul and based on the same, the duration of the punishment also varies from one soul to the other. According to the requirement, a suitable portion from the result of the sin is cut like a piece from a large cake. The size of the piece depends on the requirement of the nature of the soul. The sizes of the pieces of the salt (bad result) and sweet (Good result) cakes depend upon the duration of treatment and interval required by the nature of the soul.
The salt cake is a medicine for the ignorance and the sweet cake is the food during the treatment for the patient-soul. The left over cakes are used for the external hell and heaven in the upper world. Whatever may be the place (hell or heaven or earth), the punishments are given for the treatment of ignorance only. In the earth the punishments are used as medicines but in the hell the punishments are used as the final surgery for removing the ignorance. In any case only the kindness of God is always reflected. Thus, God can be seen as Father or Teacher or Doctor giving medicines or surgeon doing operation and in all angles only the kindness is reflected always. He is always working constantly to uplift every soul. God works as Teacher, Doctor and Surgeon and at the same time the God with an attitude of the Father also observes the possible limit up to which the soul can withstand the treatment.
Once the limit is reached, God will regain the attitude of Father withdrawing Himself from the attitude of Teacher or Doctor or Surgeon and as a Father He starts giving the food of happiness for some time. Remember that He is using the bad and good results of the deeds of the soul only in every action to uplift the soul.
The deeds are done by the soul in a free atmosphere and God has no trace of interference and the same time all this treatment and food arranged alternatively makes the life cycle quite interesting to the soul without boring since continuity of anything is absent. Otherwise the soul would have got bored and the Samskara (strong feeling) of boring should have followed the soul and the soul must have developed repulsion to this world as soon as it is born in this world.
Some people criticize that God is enjoying the creation by entertaining Himself while the souls are troubled with problems and the blame God with sadism. The entertainment of God is not at all the sadism. Sadism is based on two points. One is: that the sadism is exhibited in reality in the world and not in the imaginary world. For God, this world is imaginary and not real. However, the sadism in the imaginary world may also show the attitude towards sadism in the mind. Even that point is ruled out because the second point for the sadism is: that a sadist enjoys by torturing some innocent person without justified reason. Here in the case of God, the problem of the soul in the world is based on its own actions and the punishment is given based on perfect justice. Hence, the point of sadism cannot be attributed to God even in mind. Moreover, the soul is not concerned with the entertainment of God because the soul is not punished on any unjust reason.
If the soul follows the rules of God in the justice, no problem can be seen by the soul. A rich person started a college for entertainment or to escape the income tax on his wealth. This point is unnecessary for the student as long as the college is running on the rules of University. The student has scope to argue against the management provided any type of injustice takes place in teaching or in the examinations. As long as the academic program is perfectly implemented, the student has no scope of argument against the original intention of the management in starting the college. Only a student, who is not perfectly following the academic schedule, will bother about such irrelevant points to mask his own defects.
If some body still argues on this point due to foolishness, the only answer is that God is the supreme most boss and there is no body to argue with Him. If an ant comments on the driver of car, such comment is not even heard by the driver! Since you do not know all the actions of a soul from its childhood, you should not say that a particular soul is good and yet is punished without justice. Neither you are capable of noting all the actions of a soul nor you are capable of judging the action in depth. Shankara established the nature of the world as unreal by itself and is felt real as long as the world exists based on God. Such unreal world is imaginary. The dream cannot be real without its basic material, which is the soul or awareness.
Similarly, a pot without mud and a chain without gold are unreal and they are imaginary or illusory. But the world is imaginary to God only and not to your self. If you say that the world is imaginary for your self also and try to do sins, you will have to undergo all the punishments and you must feel the punishments also as imaginary like your sins! Your sins and their punishments are within the realm of the world only and hence both must be imaginary!
This is being self realized upon the path. Experience teaches spirtual unfolment. When speaking of the Law of Attitudes, the Law of States of Being: the power of imagination rules over the will in the actions in this universe. Yet this is only in the physical universe. Not with that of the plane of Soul the 5th plane and above.
Tamas- the guna of darkness,destruction,ignorance, death, and inertia. Must be experienced in soul form but only in the the planes Under the Atman Sarap. As this is still of the Kal and that of the Universal Mind Power. That of Praabdh ( Prarabdh )- Fate Karma which has been earned in one or more previous lives, and upon which this present life is based must be met and paid for by the individual.
Soul cannot escape the Wheel of 84 until reaching Jivan Mukti/ Moksha or that of Liberation and or salvation to be able to travel to and fro. Which would be during it's present lifetime. The point is that soul regardless of becoming self realized in this lifetime or a previous one. Is not the concern of the Almight as that soul must experience both energies emanating outward from the creator. In order to ascend to the higher planes of soul. The Soul must be developed completely.
dattaswami
05-04-2012, 11:30 PM
Soul cannot escape the Wheel of 84 until reaching Jivan Mukti/ Moksha or that of Liberation and or salvation to be able to travel to and fro. Which would be during it's present lifetime. The point is that soul regardless of becoming self realized in this lifetime or a previous one. Is not the concern of the Almight as that soul must experience both energies emanating outward from the creator. In order to ascend to the higher planes of soul. The Soul must be developed completely.
Real Liberation & Salvation
This physical world, which consists of the inert objects like Sun, Moon, Stars
Air, Earth etc., is not the world, which is binding you and this is not
The world from which you have to attain the liberation or salvation
If you get salvation from this physical world it is called the death
Death is not the salvation since even after death you are bound by the bonds
The bonds are not with the physical world but they are with your family members
It is this family that constitutes your entire world from which you must be salvated
The physical world is real and it is unreal for the creator only and not for you
You are a part and parcel of this world and if you say that this world is unreal
You too become unreal, your unreal world is your own family, which is created
By yourself only and why this is unreal?
If you analyse, these bonds did not exist
Before this birth and do not exist after this birth and hence are not existing
During this birth also, Sankara told that temporary is always unreal
Therefore, Gita emphasizes for the detachment from these worldly bonds
Jesus goes one step further and advises you even to hate these family bonds
This is surprising but if you analyse, I should say, He is absolutely correct
If you analyse deeply, these family members deserve your hatred and not love
The reason is that these family members were very vehement enemies to you
In the previous birth you stole their hard earned property and fought with them
Now they have come to collect their wealth from you along with the
Compound interest, they are in the form of wife and children and you are bound
To pay them according to the force of Karma Chakra i.e., associated with Kala Chakra
Payment of loans is Karma Chakra and payment in this birth is Kala Chakra
The same is said “Runanubandha Rupena Pasu Patni Sutalayaah”
The three strongest bonds are with money, wife and children and these three
Are called as “Eeshanaas”, which are the stainless steel chains, which never
Corrode, the secret in the force of these three bonds is only the force of Karma
The Karma is the payment of the loans with interest and for that you have to earn
Therefore, you are forced by Karma to earn the money and that is the spontaneous
Attraction to the money, the Karma is dragging you to earn the money so that
You can pay to your enemies who are surrounding you for the collection of loans
Thus these three bonds are inter related and amalgamated by the force of Karma
These enemies are in the mask of friendship and love with you and you do not
Remember your previous birth, which is again due to the force of karma only
If you remember the previous birth and that enmity you will not repay the loan
Therefore, by the force of Karma Chakra only you do not remember previous birth
These enemies can collect their money only under the mask of love and friendship
These enemies are collecting their money in the form of work and also money
The mother repays the loan by doing work like bathing and clothing the children
Such sacrifice of work by the mother is coming under Karma Sanyasa
The father repays the money by giving his hard earned property to the children
And this repayment of direct wealth comes under Karma Phala Tyaga.
But these enemies are not satisfied with simple repayment of their loans
If a thief steals your money and if you catch him will you leave him
Just by taking your money? You will torture him and then only leave
Similarly, you have stolen their property and you tortured them
Therefore, they have caught the thief in this birth and collect their money
Apart from that they will torture you by dragging you down from the Lord
If you progress in your spiritual path and reach and please the Lord
You are saved permanently and attain eternal happiness here and there
Now these enemies obstruct your spiritual path and drag you back
From that Eternal divine benefit and due to that you will fall in this world-cycle
In this cycle, which is the permanent hell, you are tortured forever
By this, their vengeance is subsided and they stand around you even
In your last minutes so that you will be attracted by them then also
And you will not remember the Lord even in the last minute
This is the reason why all your family members reach you even before your death
They reach you when they hear that you are seriously ill, they are very alert
But you fool! You are not alert about them and remember them only even on the
Death bed! Is your this world not really unreal? You analyse the fact
I say this family world is the most unreal world because these bonds are not only
Unreal according to the analysis of Sankara, but also they are the bonds
Of enmity and so must be hated according to the Holy Jesus
You are thinking the enemy as your friend! How unreal is this bond?
First you come out of this unreal world created by you due to your past deeds
People say often that the world is unreal, yes! It is absolutely unreal
But the world is not this physical world created by the Lord
The unreal world is your family created by yourself due to your past karma
Similarly, your religion is another broader unreal world created by you
Your fellow religious people obstruct you from entering Universal spirituality
Because they are your enemies in the mask of friendship in this birth
You harmed them spiritually in the previous birth and therefore they have come
Now here as your friends belonging to the same religion and revenge upon you
When you come out of these two worlds, which are well and river
You will enter the Universal Spirituality, which is the infinite ocean
Some people try to get detachment from the family bonds
Without the attachment to the Lord, they can detach from the family
By attaining self through self-analysis but in this case they can get rid of
The worries and misery by attaining the self, which is pure awareness
Such detachment without attachment to the Lord is not permanent.
The attachment to the self is not as strong as the bond with the Lord
Therefore, such people who get only peace by self achievement cannot
Remain in that state for a long time, bliss is stronger than peace
Because God is stronger than the soul, soul gives peace and God gives bliss
Therefore, detachment from the family by attachment with the Lord alone
Is real and final, the scholars get attached to the self by analysis
And think that the self it self is the Lord and they feel that they are the Lord.
These pseudo Advaita Scholars are dragged again by the families and
They are insulted by the Maya and they are shown the reality.
The service to be done to the Lord should not be decided by yourself
You are pleased by doing the service to the Lord as per your desire
Your desire and your pleasure should not be the final goal of the mission
You must do that service, which is desired by the Lord and which pleases Him
His desire and His pleasure should be the final goal of your service
Mere service is not important but the service required by Him is important
Some devotees serve this society to uplift all the human beings
Such social service cannot please the Lord unless He wishes so, without His wish
If you serve the society, that is only to fulfil your desire for the fame
Sankara condemned this concept of social service i.e., Loka Sevaka Matam.
The Lord knows when, whom and where to uplift in this entire world
Whether it is His mission or His personal service, His desire is important
Even in His personal service the angle in which He desires is important
If His hand is paining, what is the use of pressing His legs?
Therefore, at every step the desire, direction and final pleasing of the Lord
Is the only essence and goal of the entire spiritual effort
The Lord alone can protect you and not this world, social service indicates
Your love on your fellow human beings, who constitute a bigger family only.
You have to sacrifice everybody, everything and even every concept for that
He tests you by asking that thing only, which you cannot sacrifice
He always attacks your strongest bond and conducts the test
One test is sufficient because if you can break your strongest bond for the
Sake of the Lord, all the other bonds, which are weaker need not be tested
The sacrifice of strongest bond with any thing other than the Lord alone
Can prove that you have the strongest bond with the Lord only.
You have to cross the family bonds and even the bond with your life
As told by Jesus, Krishna says that you have to cross even Dharma or Justice
For the sake of the Lord because as the protector of justice, He is greater than
The protected justice “Sarva Dharman …” is said in Gita.
Thus Datta conducts only one test and gives you the final report
You will always try to sacrifice all the weak bonds for His sake
Then you claim that you can sacrifice everything for His sake
The Lord smiles at your talented dramatic action and keeps silent
If you go on still shouting that you are His best devotee, then
He will enter the field and touches your strongest bond or your weakness
You will utterly fail at that point and your mouth is shut forever
D-Swami.....Law of Spirutual Growth: Truth has to be continually rediscovered, to be reformed and transformed. The same truth has to be experienced in ever-new forms.
Mksha.....life is only spirit, and being spirit it has nothing; it has only intelligence with the peculiar ability to percieve,penetrate, surive, have causation, specialization, creativeness, and ethics. Whether right or wrong or good and or evil.
dattaswami
05-05-2012, 01:18 AM
D-Swami.....Law of Spirutual Growth: Truth has to be continually rediscovered, to be reformed and transformed. The same truth has to be experienced in ever-new forms.
Mksha.....life is only spirit, and being spirit it has nothing; it has only intelligence with the peculiar ability to percieve,penetrate, surive, have causation, specialization, creativeness, and ethics. Whether right or wrong or good and or evil.
Simply based on the wish to create the world, you should notdecide that God is awareness. God can do everything, whereas the awarenesscannot do everything. God can wish anything and also can burn anythingsimultaneously.
Awareness can only think anything but cannot burn anything. Ifyou say that God is awareness, since God wished, you have to say that God isfire since He burns anything. God is the source of all items, all qualities andall works in the creation. By the order of God only, a specific item isassociated with a specific quality and corresponding specific work. The fire isan entity. Its quality is heat. Its work is to burn anything. The fire is associatedwith the property of heat and the work of burning only by the will of the Lord.
If God wishes, the fire is no more hot and cannot burn anything. If God wishes,the water gets the property of heat and starts burning everything. You canidentify the entity through the specific property or specific work based on thealready sanction of God. Since God is the creator of all entities, allproperties and all works, God can attain any quality and can do any work. Insuch a case, you have to conclude that God is every item in this creation. TheBrahma Sutra (Ikshateh…) means, thatGod enters the item qualified by awareness. It means that God does not enterinto a non-living being. The awareness is the broad step of the address of Godexisting in the specific medium. This is the basic point where Advaitinsslipped and their basic confusion continued throughout their philosophy.
Eninn.....care to join in?
Lets get back to this Journey of Soul D-Swami.....Astrology, Wheel of Samsara, Wheel of Awagawan. Lets talk about the Causal Plane of Time and how you see such. :wink:
Безбожник
06-21-2012, 07:04 PM
Astrology is Introduction to Philosophy
Actually, the basic concept of astrology indicates that there is the existence of some unimaginable supernatural force that guides this world. Hence, astrology is an introduction for the philosophy. Without taking this basic reality, you misuse the astrology to justify yourself by linking your wrong actions to the planets. The worship of the supernatural and unimaginable planets introduces the worship of unimaginable God. But, this is again misused as the worship of the planet for not giving the bad result for the bad action done by you.
If you worship God, He will preach you the right knowledge, which changes the total destiny. By your worship, God will not protect you from your sins. Therefore, in this world, the destiny is also in your hands only. There is full freedom for you to change your destiny through the right knowledge. Hence, this world of humanity is called as ‘Karma Loka’, which means that your actions decide everything and that your action is based on your psychological pattern only and not by any pre-determined external destiny. The upper worlds are called as ‘Bhoga Lokas’ because there is no freedom to perform any new action and you have no freedom at all, but for enjoying the destined results for your already recorded actions.
‘Pravrutti’ means attachment to worldly bonds. ‘Nivrutti’ is detachment of your worldly bonds for the sake of God. This world is the stage for both pravrutti and nivrutti. Full freedom up to the level of changing your destiny exists here. Your destiny is only your fixed psychological pattern generated from the past deeds and not any other external force. This pattern can be changed by the right knowledge received from God in the form of preacher. Therefore, there is every chance for changing your destiny in this world. Generally, people blame the reason for their bad actions to be some external force called as destiny in which there is no trace of their personal psychological involvement. People say, ‘People say so’. The people cannot be the authority unless the whole subject is perfectly analyzed. Even there are several misinterpretations in books written by ancestral scholars. You should not blindly take the people or the ancient books as authority without analyzing them perfectly. The Gita says that you will laugh at such authorities if you analyze the subject with sharp scientific intelligence (Buddhyaayukto…).
Even if the implementation is impossible, it is better to have the right knowledge, which follows the soul to the next birth so that the practical implementation can be done sometime in the future. This point looks quite good, but there is the practical danger. Just like the cooked food can be attacked by the bacteria in the atmosphere, the right knowledge is also attacked by the worldly attractions and sometimes, the right knowledge may become weaker and weaker and even may finally disappear even in the later part of this life. Therefore, it is better to implement the realized concept as early as possible like eating the cooked food immediately.
Astrology is the origin of western religions, and quite possibly all of the world's religions. Sun worship was quite universal at one time; it's since been either stamped out or transformed into other forms. Jesus is a solar hero, one who represents the immortal sun in its apparent course through the stars - specifically during the Age of Pisces (it's no accident that one of his symbols is a fish), which is now ending as the Age of Aquarius begins. Astrology was once completely interwoven with astronomy and religion, but this has since changed as the allegorical scriptures of ancient Israel separated the content from its origin through the use of symbolic language and the (likely at times purposeful) forgetting by church fathers of these true origins. Suddenly, sun worship was considered "pagan" and something to be eradicated. How sad that uncounted people died so that a competing version of the same nonsense they were believing could take over culturally, first in the Old World and then in the New.
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