Rapture: future promise or myth.

[wingrider]

I would venture that most posters here have heard of the Christian concept of a Rapture, so this thread is to get the different views on the subject and your reasons for your belief in your stance.


personally mine is pretrib and I will expand on this as others have posted.

[Captain Obvious]

Lies. All lies.

[wingrider]

Rapture — believers meet Christ in the air
Second Coming — Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to meet the believers on earth
Rapture — Mount of Olives is unchanged
Second Coming — Mount of Olives is divided, forming a valley east of Jerusalem
Rapture — living believers obtain glorified bodies
Second Coming — living believers remain in same bodies
Rapture — believers go to heaven
Second Coming — glorified believers come from heaven, earthly believers stay on earth
Rapture — world left unjudged and living in sin
Second Coming — world is judged and righteousness is established
Rapture — depicts deliverance of the Church from wrath
Second Coming — depicts deliverance of believers who endured wrath
Rapture — no signs precede it
Second Coming — many signs precede it
Rapture — revealed only in New Testament
Second Coming — revealed in both Old and New Testaments
Rapture — deals with only the saved
Second Coming — deals with both the saved and unsaved
Rapture — Satan remains free
Second Coming — Satan is bound and thrown into the Abyss
Since the Rapture and Second Coming clearly are different events that do not occur at the same time, this would rule out a Post-Tribulation Rapture scenario

[wingrider]

Lies. All lies. that is all you have to say?? what no explanation as to why you feel it is lies, just a blanket statement? why should I take you seriously then?

[Conley]

Rapture — believers meet Christ in the air
Second Coming — Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to meet the believers on earth
Rapture — Mount of Olives is unchanged
Second Coming — Mount of Olives is divided, forming a valley east of Jerusalem
Rapture — living believers obtain glorified bodies
Second Coming — living believers remain in same bodies
Rapture — believers go to heaven
Second Coming — glorified believers come from heaven, earthly believers stay on earth
Rapture — world left unjudged and living in sin
Second Coming — world is judged and righteousness is established
Rapture — depicts deliverance of the Church from wrath
Second Coming — depicts deliverance of believers who endured wrath
Rapture — no signs precede it
Second Coming — many signs precede it
Rapture — revealed only in New Testament
Second Coming — revealed in both Old and New Testaments
Rapture — deals with only the saved
Second Coming — deals with both the saved and unsaved
Rapture — Satan remains free
Second Coming — Satan is bound and thrown into the Abyss

Since the Rapture and Second Coming clearly are different events that do not occur at the same time, this would rule out a Post-Tribulation Rapture scenario

Are these ten different possibilities, ten steps in the process, or something else? I don't understand the list.

[wingrider]

these are ten differences between the second coming of christ and the rapture, it depicts the rapture as Christ coming in the air for the saints ( believers) and his second coming when he sets up his kingdom and imprisons satan.

[Captain Obvious]

that is all you have to say?? what no explanation as to why you feel it is lies, just a blanket statement? why should I take you seriously then?

Not much more to add on the subject. I believe it's all bullshit. Complete, unadulterated bullshit.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[wingrider]

Not much more to add on the subject. I believe it's all bullshit. Complete, unadulterated bullshit.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. so you base your statement on personal opinion. it would be good if you could explain how you arrived at that opinion, what was the moment that you came to this conclusion? what was the caterist that formed it.? come on man work wth me here . I just want to understand why you think as you do.

[Captain Obvious]

so you base your statement on personal opinion. it would be good if you could explain how you arrived at that opinion, what was the moment that you came to this conclusion? what was the caterist that formed it.? come on man work wth me here . I just want to understand why you think as you do.

Same way people who believe this shit do - it's all based on personal opinion.

Everyone is presented with the same certain information and we can either say "yeah, I believe that" or "no fucking way that's true". I guess an "I'm really not sure" is an option also, but you asked and I responded - I think it's all bullshit. Lies actually, stories manufactured to give the masses something to think about.

[wingrider]

Same way people who believe this shit do - it's all based on personal opinion.

Everyone is presented with the same certain information and we can either say "yeah, I believe that" or "no fucking way that's true". I guess an "I'm really not sure" is an option also, but you asked and I responded - I think it's all bullshit. Lies actually, stories manufactured to give the masses something to think about.

the bible is 30 percent prophecy, Jesus fulfilled 300 prophecys in his 1st advent,, the rest will be fulfiled during his 2nd adent, the rapture of the church ( believers) is just one of them. Now if you are not a bible believer then of course none of this will mean anything to you, and that is your choice,, but I ma curious if dont belive what the bible clearly teaches, then why are you responding to a thread that is bible based on the prophecies concerning the rapture of the church? if it is just to detract, then say so, if it is to present an arguement either for or against the premise then I am all ears and willing to read what you have to say on the subject.

[Mister D]

Wing, he chooses not to believe. The conversation should really end there.

[wingrider]

yep you are right ... but if he feels that way he should not have responded in the first place..

[Captain Obvious]

the bible is 30 percent prophecy, Jesus fulfilled 300 prophecys in his 1st advent,, the rest will be fulfiled during his 2nd adent, the rapture of the church ( believers) is just one of them. Now if you are not a bible believer then of course none of this will mean anything to you, and that is your choice,, but I ma curious if dont belive what the bible clearly teaches, then why are you responding to a thread that is bible based on the prophecies concerning the rapture of the church? if it is just to detract, then say so, if it is to present an arguement either for or against the premise then I am all ears and willing to read what you have to say on the subject.

I believe there are hints of accuracy and actual historical fact in the Bible, but I also believe that the majority of it is manufactured fables.

I look to current radical Islamists, notice how they lie to their people, how they lie about what their book tells them in respect to their actions, they distort and lie to make it seem like they're acting in the will of their god and prophets. These radical Islamists were not much different than those who were responsible for much of what is in the bible, IMHO and they "tailored" it to their own personal, political whims.

But I do think that there are hints and sound bites of actual history and fact in there.

To answer your second question, the OP asked for my opinion and I gave it. That's how these things work, no? Now I'm not going to trash your thread with my bullshit opinions, that's not my intent but you keep asking me so I'll reply. I generally avoid these kinds of threads for this purpose - I'm opinionated and my opinions differ from many and are at times disruptive to the discussion.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Wing, he chooses not to believe. The conversation should really end there.

As if it were a choice...once the shroud of doubt has been lifted Mister D, there's no going back...definitely not because of faith.

[gophangover]

The word "rapture" isn't in the bible. The Protestants first coined the term.

The Maya, Zuni and Hopi believe in a rapture of sorts. Seven more months to go.

In the bible it says that no one knows the day nor the hour, but there will be many signs. Earthquakes in diverse places, famine, pestilence, wars and rumors of wars. "When the fig tree blooms, you know that summer is nigh. And all things will be complete within one generation." It's been 64 years since it bloomed.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Doomsday aficionados sure are a gullible lot.

[wingrider]

The word "rapture" isn't in the bible. The Protestants first coined the term.

The Maya, Zuni and Hopi believe in a rapture of sorts. Seven more months to go.

In the bible it says that no one knows the day nor the hour, but there will be many signs. Earthquakes in diverse places, famine, pestilence, wars and rumors of wars. "When the fig tree blooms, you know that summer is nigh. And all things will be complete within one generation." It's been 64 years since it bloomed.
actually it is ,, for example:

The Bible Teaches About a Rapture
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/1%20Thessalonians%204.17) speaks of an event called "the Rapture", Latin "rapio," Greek "harpazo," which means "to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out." "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Paul states that the concept of the Rapture is meant to encourage believers during this Age (1 Thes. 4:18 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/1%20Thes.%204.18)). Other references on the Rapture are Jn. 14:1-14 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Jn.%2014.1-14); I Cor. 15:51-58 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/I%20Cor.%2015.51-58); and 1 Thes. 4:13-18 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/1%20Thes.%204.13-18).These bedrock statements about the Bible and its interpretation provide the foundation in which to analyze the following reasons for why I believe the Bible teaches a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.

[Peter1469]

Doomsday aficionados sure are a gullible lot.
:smiley:

[wingrider]

I believe there are hints of accuracy and actual historical fact in the Bible, but I also believe that the majority of it is manufactured fables.

I look to current radical Islamists, notice how they lie to their people, how they lie about what their book tells them in respect to their actions, they distort and lie to make it seem like they're acting in the will of their god and prophets. These radical Islamists were not much different than those who were responsible for much of what is in the bible, IMHO and they "tailored" it to their own personal, political whims.

But I do think that there are hints and sound bites of actual history and fact in there.

To answer your second question, the OP asked for my opinion and I gave it. That's how these things work, no? Now I'm not going to trash your thread with my bullshit opinions, that's not my intent but you keep asking me so I'll reply. I generally avoid these kinds of threads for this purpose - I'm opinionated and my opinions differ from many and are at times disruptive to the discussion. sorry but according to D i am to drop any conversation with you concerning this subject..

[Mister D]

As if it were a choice...once the shroud of doubt has been lifted Mister D, there's no going back...definitely not because of faith.

Of course it's a choice. How else would you describe it?

[Conley]

I think that's an interesting question.

[wingrider]

I think that's an interesting question.

which question is that CL.. ? I lost track /

[Conley]

which question is that CL.. ? I lost track /

How to describe faith and why some believe it is a choice while others do not.

[gophangover]

Doomsday aficionados sure are a gullible lot.

Yeah, tell that to the Haitians, especially the half million that died. You can tell it to the those that died in the tsunami in the south Pacific. Oh, and don't forget to tell the Japanese that died last year.

Atheists are the blind leading the blind. Eventually they all fall in a hole.

The suns energy is finite, there WILL be a doomsday.

Everyone has a doomsday taking their last breath.

[wingrider]

How to describe faith and why some believe it is a choice while others do not. that nis just it CL faith in Christ is just that .. A choice..

[gophangover]

that nis just it CL faith in Christ is just that .. A choice..

If you went to an Islamic country, and someone told you that if you didn't believe in Mohamed, you would go to hell, would you believe them? Well for the Muslims that were raised to believe that, from the time they are born, being told that if they don't except Jesus as the Christ, it's not a choice any more than you choosing to believe Mohamed. God made the choice for you to be born into a Christian society, and God chose to make all of the Muslims to be born in an Islamic society. But on the last day, all will stand before God, and God will ask each person if they except the truth. Those that reject the truth will not be aloud to be with the truth. Very few except the truth on earth, because they are so brainwashed into the dogma of the religion they were raised in. Most go through life saying, "My God is better than your god." Then they have to stand in front of God and justify their ignorance on the last day. What do you think a person will say to God, when God says, "I made the Muslims to be Muslim, and I made the Jews to be Jews, and I made the Christians to be Christian. So how can your God be better than their God, when you worship me and they worship me?"
What comes from God, belongs to God. The devils work is futile.

[wingrider]

just one difference here I can see,,


Jesus Christ,,

[HogRancher]

I recommend that readers not interpret the Bible literally.

[wingrider]

I recommend that readers not interpret the Bible literally. I recommend that you learn what a Christian is and what the Bible teaches about faith.. now do you have an opinion on the Rapture theory ? if not TATA

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Of course it's a choice. How else would you describe it?

It's the other way around, in order to have faith in an omnipotent supernatural all knowing being - "choice" is a prerequisite, not believing in an omnipotent supernatural all knowing being because no proof whatsoever has ever been presented to prove such an existence ever existed in the first place on the other hand isn't necessarily a choice but instead just your plain ole everyday run of the mill common sense.

[wingrider]

It's the other way around, in order to have faith in an omnipotent supernatural all knowing being - "choice" is a prerequisite, not believing in an omnipotent supernatural all knowing being because no proof whatsoever has ever been presented to prove such an existence ever existed in the first place on the other hand isn't necessarily a choice but instead just your plain ole everyday run of the mill common sense. so what is your opinion of the rapture? is it Pre trib, post trib or mid trib?

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Yeah, tell that to the Haitians, especially the half million that died. You can tell it to the those that died in the tsunami in the south Pacific. Oh, and don't forget to tell the Japanese that died last year.

Atheists are the blind leading the blind. Eventually they all fall in a hole.

The suns energy is finite, there WILL be a doomsday.

Everyone has a doomsday taking their last breath.


Earthquakes or plenty of other natural disasters have been going on since before human beings evolved into human beings. I've spent a lot of time in Haiti, hell my room was the 2nd story window on the right of the columns at the Presidential Palace in 1994-95 - Haiti had nil to none with regards infrastructure, any natural disaster was going to be a catastrophe.

The Pacific is riddled with large teutonic plates, shifting - grinding - moving in the path of the least resistance - our Eastern seaboard has it's share as well, albeit smaller they're at times just as deadly.

Or the Pompeiians - Hawaiians in 1960 - Indonesians in 1883 - AD 79 - Chinese in 1976 - Syrians in 1138...

[Vilifier of Zombies]

so what is your opinion of the rapture? is it Pre trib, post trib or mid trib?

Thessalonians? It's hocus-pocus nonsense, like much of the bible.

[wingrider]

sure , but what is the reason for the increase in the amount and the intensity of these disasters? what is it in your opinion that is casuing al the havoc in the world, ie Global warming , deadly tornadoes, volcanic increases, earthquakes, etc... are these events trying to warn us of something or what? I have my opinion but it is bibical based so I ask you for a more secualr opinion. are these the prelude to the Rapture or are they a prelude to something else?

[wingrider]

Thessalonians? It's hocus-pocus nonsense, like much of the bible.
not just thessalonians but numerous other refferences,, funny you as a non beleiever in scripture should know about Thessalonians though.

[gophangover]

It's the other way around, in order to have faith in an omnipotent supernatural all knowing being - "choice" is a prerequisite, not believing in an omnipotent supernatural all knowing being because no proof whatsoever has ever been presented to prove such an existence ever existed in the first place on the other hand isn't necessarily a choice but instead just your plain ole everyday run of the mill common sense.

Common sense, ok. History Channel just showed that one sun flare could wipe out all the electrical power on the planet for at least five years. That would destroy every economy in the world. The world would send the world back to the stone age. Gangs in the cities would kill half the population in their cities, just taking what they want, in less than a month. No more groceries, no more water.

Common sense tells me that, that is a doomsday. Common sense tells a caveman that, he's getting his life back. In other words the primitive tribes would survive. But it would surely be a doomsday for many. Common sense would tell a lot of people to say a prayer. But some would spark up a fatty and say, "Far out man!" So common sense seems to be a perspective. But in the end, we all end up at the same point.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Common sense, ok. History Channel just showed that one sun flare could wipe out all the electrical power on the planet for at least five years. That would destroy every economy in the world. The world would send the world back to the stone age. Gangs in the cities would kill half the population in their cities, just taking what they want, in less than a month. No more groceries, no more water.

Could of, would of, should of...Or we might have the perseverance as a population to overcome something as trivial having to rebuild the power grid. Point is, it's not written in stone what would happen "IF!," just hearsay and innuendos - damn sure not Doomsday 2012.

Besides, that's worst case scenario, I've heard the same stuff before and I've heard of altering opinions that are less pessimistic.


Common sense tells me that, that is a doomsday. Common sense tells a caveman that, he's getting his life back. In other words the primitive tribes would survive. But it would surely be a doomsday for many. Common sense would tell a lot of people to say a prayer. But some would spark up a fatty and say, "Far out man!" So common sense seems to be a perspective. But in the end, we all end up at the same point.


That hasn't happened - it's not common sense - it's a guess at best.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

not just thessalonians but numerous other refferences,, funny you as a non beleiever in scripture should know about Thessalonians though.

Doesn't matter, I don't put too much faith in what the Bible says, especially the New Testament.

I spent a lot of undergrad time at a private college run by Benedictine Monks, every semester I'd take at least two religious philosophy classes - because the Monks were very engaging teachers, they know more about other religions than a lot of those who've been practitioners of 'em their entire lives, usually the deal was one class was primarily scripture based and the other philosophical in nature.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

sure , but what is the reason for the increase in the amount and the intensity of these disasters? what is it in your opinion that is casuing al the havoc in the world, ie Global warming , deadly tornadoes, volcanic increases, earthquakes, etc... are these events trying to warn us of something or what? I have my opinion but it is bibical based so I ask you for a more secualr opinion. are these the prelude to the Rapture or are they a prelude to something else?

Performance enhancing pharmaceuticals?

I just made the point that natural disasters have happened since before we'd evolved into human beings.

You can't possibly think we've encountered something as severe as what happened to the Earth sixty five million years ago?

[gophangover]

Could of, would of, should of...Or we might have the perseverance as a population to overcome something as trivial having to rebuild the power grid. Point is, it's not written in stone what would happen "IF!," just hearsay and innuendos - damn sure not Doomsday 2012.

Besides, that's worst case scenario, I've heard the same stuff before and I've heard of altering opinions that are less pessimistic.





That hasn't happened - it's not common sense - it's a guess at best.

Hey everybody, the zombie lost his common sense. Where could it be? When and where did you see it last?
You do know that 80 to 90% of life on this planet has been wiped out at least five times in the past, don't you? Do you think it's a best guess that it will happen again? Or is it your best guess that humanity is invincible?

Just how do you think the world is going to rebuild all those transformers on the electrical grid, without any electricity to run the factories that build the parts needed to fix them? My common sense tells me that it would take at least a hundred years to get back to modern civilization. Common sense may tell the survivors that it's not smart to go back to the way things are now. It might be just the enema the world needs.

Doesn't Revelations say, that the next time the world will be destroyed by fire?

[wingrider]

Hey everybody, the zombie lost his common sense. Where could it be? When and where did you see it last?
You do know that 80 to 90% of life on this planet has been wiped out at least five times in the past, don't you? Do you think it's a best guess that it will happen again? Or is it your best guess that humanity is invincible?

Just how do you think the world is going to rebuild all those transformers on the electrical grid, without any electricity to run the factories that build the parts needed to fix them? My common sense tells me that it would take at least a hundred years to get back to modern civilization. Common sense may tell the survivors that it's not smart to go back to the way things are now. It might be just the enema the world needs.

Doesn't Revelations say, that the next time the world will be destroyed by fire?

yes it does..

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Hey everybody, the zombie lost his common sense. Where could it be? When and where did you see it last?
You do know that 80 to 90% of life on this planet has been wiped out at least five times in the past, don't you? Do you think it's a best guess that it will happen again? Or is it your best guess that humanity is invincible?

Over a span of how many millions of years? You go ahead and wait for it...like that's the reason for your well being, your existence - then insert religion into the debate on a thread titled "Rapture," as if it's always been something devine and not mother nature running it's course.


Just how do you think the world is going to rebuild all those transformers on the electrical grid, without any electricity to run the factories that build the parts needed to fix them? My common sense tells me that it would take at least a hundred years to get back to modern civilization. Common sense may tell the survivors that it's not smart to go back to the way things are now. It might be just the enema the world needs.

You're back to worst case scenario, okay, it's not like we'd be completely without power, lack the ability or the resources to rebuild/wind those transformers - a handful of nuclear submarines could power a whole hell of a lot - surely you don't think they'd be affected by solar flares? Also, some places already have systems in place that're not as susceptible to solar flare damage - would it take years to rebuild our power grid if were completely wiped out? Yes - would it be the end of the world - no.

[wingrider]

if you so not believe in the rapture or the bible or prophecy,, why are you even in this thread? is it just to throw dirt , detract or derail? seems like that is the case,

[Vilifier of Zombies]

if you so not believe in the rapture or the bible or prophecy,, why are you even in this thread? is it just to throw dirt , detract or derail? seems like that is the case,

What're you saying, that this thread is only for those who believe in it? If it is then that's just silly...that's the same as saying it's okay to post on this thread so long as you don't have a differing opinion.

[wingrider]

What're you saying, that this thread is only for those who believe in it? If it is then that's just silly...that's the same as saying it's okay to post on this thread so long as you don't have a differing opinion. nope not at all.. but it would be good if you could form an opinion that was backed by something other than your own bias.. if you don't believe in a rapture or the bible or prophecy then what are you using for a source to back up your statements? I am open to discussion just as long as it is logical, and source backed opinion. everything else is off the table as far as I am concerned,

[Vilifier of Zombies]

nope not at all.. but it would be good if you could form an opinion that was backed by something other than your own bias.. if you don't believe in a rapture or the bible or prophecy then what are you using for a source to back up your statements? I am open to discussion just as long as it is logical, and source backed opinion. everything else is off the table as far as I am concerned,

Well wingrider, I've already pointed out that I've taken a lot of religious philosophy classes, it's not like I'm not gonna add to the discussion of Rapture, otherwise what's the point of posting posts or even taking all those classes...(?)

I haven't mocked anyone for their religious beliefs - as well as I really haven't even stated my own, that and other than this little distraction, I've kept my posts relevant to the topic of thread or the flow of the discussion.

I'm sure I could find a plethora of information out there to counter the fans of Doomsday but it's not really all that necessary, unless the discussion turns more specific then I'll be happy to post the data, even if it turns out to be data on the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event.

[gophangover]

if you so not believe in the rapture or the bible or prophecy,, why are you even in this thread? is it just to throw dirt , detract or derail? seems like that is the case,

It throws common sense out the window to think that life is just a freak accident called "nature". The marble we live on is just a freak of "nature" in the whole solar system. All the diversity of the life on earth is just billions of freak accidents. The trillions of universal laws that make everything the way it is, is just more freaks. The fact that 80% of everything is just empty space. The atoms that make up your body, all in perfect order, doing what they are supposed to do, 24/7 for your whole life, empty freaking space. All those different atoms, making up different cells that make different organs, veins, arteries, muscles, tendons, they're all just accidents of "nature".

Na, there's no way that many freak accidents could continually happen. There has to be a super brain that thought this all up. It has to be a super energy that makes it continue. It has to be that super consciousness that keeps stupid humans from blowing this world into space dust. Otherwise North Korea, or Pakistan, or India, or China, or Russia, or especially America, would have already done it so we could all go see THEIR god.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Let's see how you'll tackle that response wingrider...

[wingrider]

Gop is right on the money there has to be a creator, given that to be the case, wouldn't it be logical to think that he also gave us his " blueprint" for what he expects from his creation, and also tell us how it wil all end, the bible tells us that we are created in his image, it also tells us that he devised a plan back at the beginning that he would reconcile Man to himself. The rapture is simply a part of that plan, it is a transforming of our physical self into an imortal body that knows no corruption , Adams body was like that before he disobeyed and brought sin into the world.

[gophangover]

Gop is right on the money there has to be a creator, given that to be the case, wouldn't it be logical to think that he also gave us his " blueprint" for what he expects from his creation, and also tell us how it wil all end, the bible tells us that we are created in his image, it also tells us that he devised a plan back at the beginning that he would reconcile Man to himself. The rapture is simply a part of that plan, it is a transforming of our physical self into an imortal body that knows no corruption , Adams body was like that before he disobeyed and brought sin into the world.

"God's original plan was to hangout in a garden with some naked vegetarians."

[gophangover]

Could of, would of, should of...Or we might have the perseverance as a population to overcome something as trivial having to rebuild the power grid. Point is, it's not written in stone what would happen "IF!," just hearsay and innuendos - damn sure not Doomsday 2012.

Besides, that's worst case scenario, I've heard the same stuff before and I've heard of altering opinions that are less pessimistic.




That hasn't happened - it's not common sense - it's a guess at best.

Severe Space Weather--Social and Economic ImpactsJanuary 21, 2009: Did you know a solar flare can make your toilet stop working?
That's the surprising conclusion of a NASA-funded study by the National Academy of Sciences entitled Severe Space Weather Events—Understanding Societal and Economic Impacts. In the 132-page report, experts detailed what might happen to our modern, high-tech society in the event of a "super solar flare" followed by an extreme geomagnetic storm. They found that almost nothing is immune from space weather—not even the water in your bathroom.

The problem begins with the electric power grid. "Electric power is modern society's cornerstone technology on which virtually all other infrastructures and services depend," the report notes. Yet it is particularly vulnerable to bad space weather. Ground currents induced during geomagnetic storms can actually melt the copper windings of transformers at the heart of many power distribution systems. Sprawling power lines act like antennas, picking up the currents and spreading the problem over a wide area. The most famous geomagnetic power outage happened during a space storm in March 1989 when six million people in Quebec lost power for 9 hours

According to the report, power grids may be more vulnerable than ever. The problem is interconnectedness. In recent years, utilities have joined grids together to allow long-distance transmission of low-cost power to areas of sudden demand. On a hot summer day in California, for instance, people in Los Angeles might be running their air conditioners on power routed from Oregon. It makes economic sense—but not necessarily geomagnetic sense. Interconnectedness makes the system susceptible to wide-ranging "cascade failures." To estimate the scale of such a failure, report co-author John Kappenmann of the Metatech Corporation looked at the great geomagnetic storm of May 1921, which produced ground currents as much as ten times stronger than the 1989 Quebec storm, and modeled its effect on the modern power grid. He found more than 350 transformers at risk of permanent damage and 130 million people without power. The loss of electricity would ripple across the social infrastructure with "water distribution affected within several hours; perishable foods and medications lost in 12-24 hours; loss of heating/air conditioning, sewage disposal, phone service, fuel re-supply and so on."


"The concept of interdependency," the report notes, "is evident in the unavailability of water due to long-term outage of electric power--and the inability to restart an electric generator without water on site."

http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2010/02/05/05feb_sdo_resources/collapse_strip2.jpg (http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2009/01/21/21jan_severespaceweather_resources/collapse.jpg)Above: What if the May 1921 superstorm occurred today? A US map of vulnerable transformers with areas of probable system collapse encircled. A state-by-state map of transformer vulnerability is also available: click here (http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2009/01/21/21jan_severespaceweather_resources/transformermap.jpg). Credit: National Academy of Sciences.


The strongest geomagnetic storm on record is the Carrington Event of August-September 1859, named after British astronomer Richard Carrington who witnessed the instigating solar flare with his unaided eye while he was projecting an image of the sun on a white screen. Geomagnetic activity triggered by the explosion electrified telegraph lines, shocking technicians and setting their telegraph papers on fire; Northern Lights spread as far south as Cuba and Hawaii; auroras over the Rocky Mountains were so bright, the glow woke campers who began preparing breakfast because they thought it was morning. Best estimates rank the Carrington Event as 50% or more stronger than the superstorm of May 1921.
"A contemporary repetition of the Carrington Event would cause … extensive social and economic disruptions," the report warns. Power outages would be accompanied by radio blackouts and satellite malfunctions; telecommunications, GPS navigation, banking and finance, and transportation would all be affected. Some problems would correct themselves with the fading of the storm: radio and GPS transmissions could come back online fairly quickly. Other problems would be lasting: a burnt-out multi-ton transformer, for instance, can take weeks or months to repair. The total economic impact in the first year alone could reach $2 trillion, some 20 times greater than the costs of a Hurricane Katrina or, to use a timelier example, a few TARPs.


What's the solution? The report ends with a call for infrastructure designed to better withstand geomagnetic disturbances, improved GPS codes and frequencies, and improvements in space weather forecasting. Reliable forecasting is key. If utility and satellite operators know a storm is coming, they can take measures to reduce damage—e.g., disconnecting wires, shielding vulnerable electronics, powering down critical hardware. A few hours without power is better than a few weeks.
NASA has deployed a fleet of spacecraft to study the sun and its eruptions. The Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO), the twin STEREO probes, ACE, Wind and others are on duty 24/7. NASA physicists use data from these missions to understand the underlying physics of flares and geomagnetic storms; personnel at NOAA's Space Weather Prediction Center use the findings, in turn, to hone their forecasts.
At the moment, no one knows when the next super solar storm will erupt. It could be 100 years away or just 100 days. It's something to think about the next time you flush.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/21jan_severespaceweather/

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Gop is right on the money there has to be a creator, given that to be the case, wouldn't it be logical to think that he also gave us his " blueprint" for what he expects from his creation, and also tell us how it wil all end, the bible tells us that we are created in his image, it also tells us that he devised a plan back at the beginning that he would reconcile Man to himself. The rapture is simply a part of that plan, it is a transforming of our physical self into an imortal body that knows no corruption , Adams body was like that before he disobeyed and brought sin into the world.

That's his opinion, even if you agree with it - it doesn't make it "right on the money."

All it would take is one "freak accident," not a whole bunch anyways, the rest is just second guessing compounded with faith.

Religion and logic do not go hand in hand, as well as who's to say your religion is the right religion? Maybe the Buddhists or Daoists got it right and all you fellas are the fail?

[wingrider]

That's his opinion, even if you agree with it - it doesn't make it "right on the money."

All it would take is one "freak accident," not a whole bunch anyways, the rest is just second guessing compounded with faith.

Religion and logic do not go hand in hand, as well as who's to say your religion is the right religion? Maybe the Buddhists or Daoists got it right and all you fellas are the fail? then I still lose nothing..
.
lets see if you have the guts to watch a video and do it with an open mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2in2mENbuE&feature=relmfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcCZc0MyU4k&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RycPJC03QI&feature=relmfu

[wingrider]

approx 30 minutes long for all three vids..

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Severe Space Weather--....

Even if the power grid is off line for a year or more it's not the end of the world - maybe as you know it, but not the end - definitely nothing to do with religion or superstition.

[wingrider]

Even if the power grid is off line for a year or more it's not the end of the world - maybe as you know it, but not the end - definitely nothing to do with religion or superstition.
can you prove that God won't bring this about.? no of course not..

did you watch the videos? or are you going to dismiss them?

[Vilifier of Zombies]

then I still lose nothing..

Nor do you gain anything.


lets see if you have the guts to watch a video and do it with an open mind.

Sorry buddy, I'm not gonna spend my Monday afternoon watching religious YouTubes, perhaps you could summarize?

[Vilifier of Zombies]

can you prove that God won't bring this about.? no of course not..

did you watch the videos? or are you going to dismiss them?

Nor can you prove God is pulling the levers behind the magic curtain - what's your point?

How about you just summarize what was on the YouTubes instead?

[wingrider]

I could but He does a better job at it than I can . He is an expert, while I am an ametuer. I figure if you want to know something go to an expert in the field,, but of course you won't take 30 minutes out of your day to watch it, it may cange your mind , then again if you don't watch it you cannot debunk the information.. so don't watch it.. it just tells me volumes about your bias.

[wingrider]

Nor can you prove God is pulling the levers behind the magic curtain - what's your point?

How about you just summarize what was on the YouTubes instead? I would tell you but you would just dismiss it or belittle it.. so why waste by time typing it in.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

I could but He does a better job at it than I can . He is an expert, while I am an ametuer. I figure if you want to know something go to an expert in the field,, but of course you won't take 30 minutes out of your day to watch it, it may cange your mind , then again if you don't watch it you cannot debunk the information.. so don't watch it.. it just tells me volumes about your bias.

You should - spending a half an hour enduring religious rants on a Monday afternoon is not my cup of tea, it has nothing to do with bias but instead preference.

That would be the same as me posting a half an hour of a Muslim caliphate bitch, banter, and moaning about whatever topic was being discussed and telling you you have to watch it to debunk it - if I were you at that point I'd then tell me "hell fuck no!, I wouldn't watch that shit if I were that guy getting his eyelids pinned open on Clockwork Orange!"

[Vilifier of Zombies]

I would tell you but you would just dismiss it or belittle it.. so why waste by time typing it in.

It still wouldn't make it fact, thus requiring you to have faith...everyone else, faith isn't a prerequisite.

[wingrider]

You should - spending a half an hour enduring religious rants on a Monday afternoon is not my cup of tea, it has nothing to do with bias but instead preference.

That would be the same as me posting a half an hour of a Muslim caliphate bitch, banter, and moaning about whatever topic was being discussed and telling you you have to watch it to debunk it - if I were you at that point I'd then tell me "hell fuck no!, I wouldn't watch that shit if I were that guy getting his eyelids pinned open on Clockwork Orange!" see, you dismiss it without hearing anything, I will tell ou this guy does not rant and rave or anything of the sort, he simple lays out the facts as found in scripture and lets you make decisions based on those facts, I think you are to biased to even consider other possiblitlites especially when it comes to matters of Christian thought. so why are you even in this thread? I think it is to derail it, and nothing more, you haven't said one thing to make me think differently,

[wingrider]

It still wouldn't make it fact, thus requiring you to have faith...everyone else, faith isn't a prerequisite.

so what are you doing in a thread that deals with christian concepts ? you don't believe, so I can only assume you are here to derail it and trash it.. please leave if that is your goal.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

see, you dismiss it without hearing anything, I will tell ou this guy does not rant and rave or anything of the sort, he simple lays out the facts as found in scripture and lets you make decisions based on those facts, I think you are to biased to even consider other possiblitlites especially when it comes to matters of Christian thought. so why are you even in this thread? I think it is to derail it, and nothing more, you haven't said one thing to make me think differently,

You're confusing bias with preference wingrider.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

so what are you doing in a thread that deals with christian concepts ? you don't believe, so I can only assume you are here to derail it and trash it.. please leave if that is your goal.

Posting my two cents - are we gonna have this circular argument every time someone disagrees with religion? When discussing Rapture/Doomsday, are you insinuating that first you have to believe in it in order to have the ability to form an opinion?

[wingrider]

I am done with you trashing and derailing the thread,, You have tlaked about everything except the premise of the thread, Now I don't care if you don't believe in any form of the rapture concept, that is your choice.. but if you persist in the tactics you have employed here any further I will simple have to appeal to a higher authority..

[gophangover]

Even if the power grid is off line for a year or more it's not the end of the world - maybe as you know it, but not the end - definitely nothing to do with religion or superstition.

For many it will be the end of the world. There are lots of people that die from not having air conditioning even for just a few days. I'm just the messenger, it's the Academy of Scientists that made these predictions. If you claim to be more of an authority than them, then you are being just like the preachers that claim to be an authority on the mind of God.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

I am done with you trashing and derailing the thread,, You have tlaked about everything except the premise of the thread, Now I don't care if you don't believe in any form of the rapture concept, that is your choice.. but if you persist in the tactics you have employed here any further I will simple have to appeal to a higher authority..

Is God your higher authority? How's that gonna work out for you?

My two cents is that it's a non-issue, you posting half hour YouTubes of televangelists is far from saying that it's an issue.

Tactics, not believing in Doomsday, yet still posting on the subject is somehow a tactic - a blunder?

[Mister D]

Mister D prophesied that this conversation would not turn out well. :wink:

[Vilifier of Zombies]

For many it will be the end of the world. There are lots of people that die from not having air conditioning even for just a few days. I'm just the messenger, it's the Academy of Scientists that made these predictions. If you claim to be more of an authority than them, then you are being just like the preachers that claim to be an authority on the mind of God.

We're back to "if," it hasn't been proven that it would.

Sure it's an issue, that it's a known issue - that the Academy of Sciences and even NASA have raised concerns about a "worst case scenario," it doesn't mean that it's written in concrete that it'll be the end of the world, all we know will be lost, and the second coming of Jesus will be at our doorsteps.

In critical areas there's all sorts of mitigation going on right now with regards to solar flares, the Army's Corps of Engineers has had systems in place for decades that can withstand solar flares, hell, the radio in my humvee when I was in the Army could withstand both solar flare damage and EMP's because the technologies to combat both are related.