Drugs

[spunkloaf]

We need to face it, they're part of our lives. Legal, illegal, what have you. Good for you? Bad for you? Open for discussion.

I'm going to try and open this subject a bit more on this forum. Personally I don't understand why it's harder for society to talk about drugs than sex.

Opiates. Whether you can get it off the street or you doctor gives it to you for your back pain. Who doesn't swipe a few oxy contin caps from grandpa's medicine cabinet now and then?

Alcohol. What better way to lubricate society? Deadly or not, America will not part with this substance.

Marijuana. It's illegal. Why? Because we say so. That's why. So shut the fuck up.

Ecstasy. Also very illegal. Can be very dangerous, because each pill is really a cocktail of drugs, and you never really know exactly what you're taking or in what quantities.

Methamphetamine. Speed is fun. And cheap.

Cocaine. Fun. But speed is funner. And much cheaper.

Mushrooms. More research should be done on the psychological effects of mushrooms. People who have indulged can attest that some strange, rhythmic things happen while on this drug. For instance, two people tripping can finish each other's sentences and know exactly what the other is talking about, while the rest of the world couldn't fathom if it tried to.

Acid. See: Mushrooms.

Tobacco. A truly pointless yet curiously satisfying drug. Apparently also extremely addictive, and deadly. But still very legal.


I could continue but we'll briefly stop here for questions, comments, juice and doughnuts.

[Captain Obvious]

Keep all current illegal drugs illegal.

[GRUMPY]

We need to face it, they're part of our lives. Legal, illegal, what have you. Good for you? Bad for you? Open for discussion.

I'm going to try and open this subject a bit more on this forum. Personally I don't understand why it's harder for society to talk about drugs than sex.

Opiates. Whether you can get it off the street or you doctor gives it to you for your back pain. Who doesn't swipe a few oxy contin caps from grandpa's medicine cabinet now and then?

Alcohol. What better way to lubricate society? Deadly or not, America will not part with this substance.

Marijuana. It's illegal. Why? Because we say so. That's why. So shut the fuck up.

Ecstasy. Also very illegal. Can be very dangerous, because each pill is really a cocktail of drugs, and you never really know exactly what you're taking or in what quantities.

Methamphetamine. Speed is fun. And cheap.

Cocaine. Fun. But speed is funner. And much cheaper.

Mushrooms. More research should be done on the psychological effects of mushrooms. People who have indulged can attest that some strange, rhythmic things happen while on this drug. For instance, two people tripping can finish each other's sentences and know exactly what the other is talking about, while the rest of the world couldn't fathom if it tried to.

Acid. See: Mushrooms.

Tobacco. A truly pointless yet curiously satisfying drug. Apparently also extremely addictive, and deadly. But still very legal.


I could continue but we'll briefly stop here for questions, comments, juice and doughnuts.

to me this is a states issue within the states....but i have never seen a more convincing argument for drug law than your post spunk....nobody has a problem talking about or debating the issue surrounding drugs, that is all in your mind.....do you believe that meth and speed are the same....

[Conley]

do you believe that meth and speed are the same....


they are the same.

[Conley]

i'm not in favor of making either one illegal, but if you had to choose one or the other based on just logic you'd have to outlaw alcohol before outlawing marijuana.

[GRUMPY]

i'm not in favor of making either one illegal, but if you had to choose one or the other based on just logic you'd have to outlaw alcohol before outlawing marijuana.

what logic might that be....make the argument....

[Mister D]

i'm not in favor of making either one illegal, but if you had to choose one or the other based on just logic you'd have to outlaw alcohol before outlawing marijuana.

what logic might that be....make the argument....


I'd imagine the argument will be that alcohol is significantly worse for your health (when abused) and that it causes more social problems. But i can't speak for Conley. Speak up Conley!

[Conley]

hehe, yes basically even if you allow for the difference in consumption due to marijuana being illegal, alcohol is far more damaging short and long term, causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care. i say legalize pot and tax it just like tobacco and booze.

[Conley]

also legalize and tax gambling. prostitution too. :)

[Captain Obvious]

Alcohol isn't going to be banned, they tried that already.

It's too ingrained (pun intended) in history and tradition. And commercialism.

Pot is the line in the sand as far as I'm concerned. I strongly oppose the legalization of recreational drug use for a number of reasons, the biggest one is that the average dufus isn't responsible enough to deal with that kind of addiction.

From a freedom to kill yourself standpoint, I could care less if you decide to ruin your life by using drugs. What I'm more concerned with are the many innocent lives that are affected by irresponsible drug use. Communities, families, crime victims.

Legalize pot and the liberal whack crowd will be teeing up the next step.

[Captain Obvious]

also legalize and tax gambling. prostitution too. :)


Gambling is already legal to a great extent.

I agree with prostitution. If a consenting adult is willing to perform sex acts for money with another consenting adult who is willing to pay for it, that's their business. Not mine, not yours, not the gubmints.

edit: aside from the gubmints interest in taxing the revenue obtained by said whore.

[Conley]

legalizing pot is not going to lead to the legalization of heroin (or sane people demanding it)

that's the same kind of hysteria you get from people who think all guns should be banned too

there's a difference between a revolver and an assault rifle

[Captain Obvious]

legalizing pot is not going to lead to the legalization of heroin (or sane people demanding it)

that's the same kind of hysteria you get from people who think all guns should be banned too

there's a difference between a revolver and an assault rifle


In a vacuum that would be a fair and rational statement.

However our society isn't a vacuum and the trend is sharply moving away from individual responsibility, ethics, family and community and more toward freeloading, handouts, irresponsibility and unethical behavior behind the facade of personal freedom.

This is why I call it the line in the sand. That line has to be drawn somewhere, that's where I want it.

[Conley]

hmm...well that is a very good point about the current state of our society. well put.

if that really is the case, and if the trend can't be reversed then this society is doomed and whether or not pot gets legalized won't make much of a difference in my opinion.

are you anticipating giant class action lawsuits against big pot like there were against fast food and big tobacco?

[Captain Obvious]

hmm...well that is a very good point about the current state of our society. well put.

if that really is the case, and if the trend can't be reversed then this society is doomed and whether or not pot gets legalized won't make much of a difference in my opinion.

are you anticipating giant class action lawsuits against big pot like there were against fast food and big tobacco?


"Big Pot" - sounds like a rapper moniker.

;D ;D ;D

[Conley]

or what i poop in ;D

[spunkloaf]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.

[Captain Obvious]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.


The average citizen is an idiot, that's obvious.

But as far as I'm concerned, personal freedom stops where it criminally encroaches on my personal freedoms. As I said earlier, if you want to waste your life away by doing drugs, that's your bizness - but irresponsible drug use results in far more victims than the idiot who's killing himself, and that's why drug laws are necessary. Not to stop users from killing themselves so much but to protect everyone else around them.

[spunkloaf]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.


The average citizen is an idiot, that's obvious.

But as far as I'm concerned, personal freedom stops where it criminally encroaches on my personal freedoms. As I said earlier, if you want to waste your life away by doing drugs, that's your bizness - but irresponsible drug use results in far more victims than the idiot who's killing himself, and that's why drug laws are necessary. Not to stop users from killing themselves so much but to protect everyone else around them.


You're referring to drunk driving. But alcohol is legal. In what other ways can an impaired person kill other people while on illegal drugs?

[Mister D]

I tried heroin twice and it was the best feeling I think I've ever had in my life. I was oblivious and I enjoyed that. Of course I was desperately unhappy at the time. What I'm getting at is that some drugs can do nothing but destroy people. You drink some beers and smoke a joint with your boys or by yourself. Cool. I drink alone all the time. But you don't snort a few lines of heroin to kick back and relax. I remember playing chess with my buddy and within 10 minutes we had drifted off into our own worlds. We were still both at the table but I was looking off at the wall while was looking passed me. I'm not sure how long that lasted.

[Conley]

Interesting experiences...if you don't have a needle hang up and inject heroin directly I think you're dancing with the devil. I don't doubt that it feels like heaven. I once got a good apartment because the previous owner had OD'd and died so no one else wanted it :(

I get a euphoria with drinking and have my own demons involving it, don't think I could ever handle anything more than that in terms of highs and lows.

[Captain Obvious]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.


The average citizen is an idiot, that's obvious.

But as far as I'm concerned, personal freedom stops where it criminally encroaches on my personal freedoms. As I said earlier, if you want to waste your life away by doing drugs, that's your bizness - but irresponsible drug use results in far more victims than the idiot who's killing himself, and that's why drug laws are necessary. Not to stop users from killing themselves so much but to protect everyone else around them.


You're referring to drunk driving. But alcohol is legal. In what other ways can an impaired person kill other people while on illegal drugs?


I wasn't referring to DUI.

Societal decay, broken families, crime, poverty, the cost of "rehabilitating" these people (who do you think pays for that?).

[Mister D]

Interesting experiences...if you don't have a needle hang up and inject heroin directly I think you're dancing with the devil. I don't doubt that it feels like heaven. I once got a good apartment because the previous owner had OD'd and died so no one else wanted it :(

I get a euphoria with drinking and have my own demons involving it, don't think I could ever handle anything more than that in terms of highs and lows.


I'm afraid of needles so I would never voluntarily do that. It would have to a medical issue.

The guy died in the apartment!? ??? :o No thanks. I don't believe in ghosts but that's still creepy.

[Conley]

Interesting experiences...if you don't have a needle hang up and inject heroin directly I think you're dancing with the devil. I don't doubt that it feels like heaven. I once got a good apartment because the previous owner had OD'd and died so no one else wanted it :(

I get a euphoria with drinking and have my own demons involving it, don't think I could ever handle anything more than that in terms of highs and lows.


I'm afraid of needles so I would never voluntarily do that. It would have to a medical issue.

The guy died in the apartment!? ??? :o No thanks. I don't believe in ghosts but that's still creepy.


It was creepy as hell, I slept with the door open the first few weeks.

I needed a place badly and didn't have any money...there were no other takers so I got a deal.

You do what you have to to get by, it's the American Way ;)

[spunkloaf]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.


The average citizen is an idiot, that's obvious.

But as far as I'm concerned, personal freedom stops where it criminally encroaches on my personal freedoms. As I said earlier, if you want to waste your life away by doing drugs, that's your bizness - but irresponsible drug use results in far more victims than the idiot who's killing himself, and that's why drug laws are necessary. Not to stop users from killing themselves so much but to protect everyone else around them.


You're referring to drunk driving. But alcohol is legal. In what other ways can an impaired person kill other people while on illegal drugs?


I wasn't referring to DUI.

Societal decay, broken families, crime, poverty, the cost of "rehabilitating" these people (who do you think pays for that?).


Societal decay is caused by Justin Bieber, not drugs. I come from a broken family, and it has nothing to do with illegal drugs. Crime? Drugs are classified as illegal. Doing illegal things results in a crime, so you can't really list that as an excuse to frown upon drugs. It's not fair. Poverty is not caused by drugs, and I agree we are wasting way too much money on jailing millions of non-violent drug offenders.

You are indoctrinated with anti- drug propaganda. That is largely motivated not by personal experience, but by ads from Partnership for a Drug Free America. which is sponsored by the alcohol industry.

:drinkupbitchesuo1:

[Mister D]

Interesting experiences...if you don't have a needle hang up and inject heroin directly I think you're dancing with the devil. I don't doubt that it feels like heaven. I once got a good apartment because the previous owner had OD'd and died so no one else wanted it :(

I get a euphoria with drinking and have my own demons involving it, don't think I could ever handle anything more than that in terms of highs and lows.


I'm afraid of needles so I would never voluntarily do that. It would have to a medical issue.

The guy died in the apartment!? ??? :o No thanks. I don't believe in ghosts but that's still creepy.


It was creepy as hell, I slept with the door open the first few weeks.

I needed a place badly and didn't have any money...there were no other takers so I got a deal.

You do what you have to to get by, it's the American Way ;)


When you put it that way, yeah. I'll take a roof over my head with creepiness rather than no roof at all.

[Captain Obvious]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.


The average citizen is an idiot, that's obvious.

But as far as I'm concerned, personal freedom stops where it criminally encroaches on my personal freedoms. As I said earlier, if you want to waste your life away by doing drugs, that's your bizness - but irresponsible drug use results in far more victims than the idiot who's killing himself, and that's why drug laws are necessary. Not to stop users from killing themselves so much but to protect everyone else around them.


You're referring to drunk driving. But alcohol is legal. In what other ways can an impaired person kill other people while on illegal drugs?


I wasn't referring to DUI.

Societal decay, broken families, crime, poverty, the cost of "rehabilitating" these people (who do you think pays for that?).


Societal decay is caused by Justin Bieber, not drugs. I come from a broken family, and it has nothing to do with illegal drugs. Crime? Drugs are classified as illegal. Doing illegal things results in a crime, so you can't really list that as an excuse to frown upon drugs. It's not fair. Poverty is not caused by drugs, and I agree we are wasting way too much money on jailing millions of non-violent drug offenders.

You are indoctrinated with anti- drug propaganda. That is largely motivated not by personal experience, but by ads from Partnership for a Drug Free America. which is sponsored by the alcohol industry.

:drinkupbitchesuo1:


So since you come from a broken family not influenced by drugs, all broken families are not caused by drugs?

http://rogercostello.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/cognitive-error-acting-on-only-what-is-immediately-seen/

[Mister D]

Captain busted out the logic on yo' ass! .

http://www.ohsnap.ca/img/thumbnails/oh-snap.jpg

[Conley]

Captain: If the average doofus is not smart enough to handle recreational drugs, what is that saying about society? Why do the rest of us responsible people have to let that affect us?


Conley: Heroin is one thing I have not tried in abundance. One time I tried snorting it and it just made me puke and gave me this weird, deep itchy headache. It felt like there was a mosquito biting my brain stem. People I have talked to say shooting it is the way to go, but I don't do needles.


The way I look at it, people are going to have fun no matter how bad it is. If the U.S. government managed to eliminate all drugs on their list, people would just start huffing household chemicals. Starting fluid sure is fun. And cheap. But it's more deadly than many drugs, and you can buy it everywhere. Isn't it funny you can start your car with the same stuff they used to anesthetize people with decades ago?

In a way criminalization sort of shelters the drug world The prices stay relatively cheap because there's no tax. If drugs were treated like porn, you know-- legal but taboo, that would be heavenly but people would feel the effect of the tax.


The average citizen is an idiot, that's obvious.

But as far as I'm concerned, personal freedom stops where it criminally encroaches on my personal freedoms. As I said earlier, if you want to waste your life away by doing drugs, that's your bizness - but irresponsible drug use results in far more victims than the idiot who's killing himself, and that's why drug laws are necessary. Not to stop users from killing themselves so much but to protect everyone else around them.


You're referring to drunk driving. But alcohol is legal. In what other ways can an impaired person kill other people while on illegal drugs?


I wasn't referring to DUI.

Societal decay, broken families, crime, poverty, the cost of "rehabilitating" these people (who do you think pays for that?).


Societal decay is caused by Justin Bieber, not drugs. I come from a broken family, and it has nothing to do with illegal drugs. Crime? Drugs are classified as illegal. Doing illegal things results in a crime, so you can't really list that as an excuse to frown upon drugs. It's not fair. Poverty is not caused by drugs, and I agree we are wasting way too much money on jailing millions of non-violent drug offenders.

You are indoctrinated with anti- drug propaganda. That is largely motivated not by personal experience, but by ads from Partnership for a Drug Free America. which is sponsored by the alcohol industry.

:drinkupbitchesuo1:


So since you come from a broken family not influenced by drugs, all broken families are not caused by drugs?

http://rogercostello.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/cognitive-error-acting-on-only-what-is-immediately-seen/


what about the rest of his points?

the booze industry contributes millions to keep pot illegal and fight state propositions

[spunkloaf]

D, that was not logic. That was a hyperlink to a thoughtful article about cognitive error, which has nothing to do with the cause of broken families.

You guys treat drugs like they break people. Drugs are the DEVIL!

http://www.thespiannet.com/actresses/B/bates_kathy/wb.jpg

The opposite is true. Broken people use drugs. Drugs only become a problem when people can't moderate themselves. Life in moderation. People need to be taught about drugs, and moderation should be the number one lesson.

[Captain Obvious]

what about the rest of his points?

They were dismissed.


the booze industry contributes millions to keep pot illegal and fight state propositions


If we could get the booze industry to police illegal immigration, you may be on to something.

[Conley]

come on captain, at least try to debate your side rather than just posting a link and changing the subject to the illegals ;)

[Captain Obvious]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot

[Mister D]

D, that was not logic. That was a hyperlink to a thoughtful article about cognitive error, which has nothing to do with the cause of broken families.

You guys treat drugs like they break people. Drugs are the DEVIL!

http://www.thespiannet.com/actresses/B/bates_kathy/wb.jpg

The opposite is true. Broken people use drugs. Drugs only become a problem when people can't moderate themselves. Life in moderation. People need to be taught about drugs, and moderation should be the number one lesson.


It depends on the drug, Spunk. Heroin and cocaine have ruined many lives. If we are talking about booze and pot, sure. Teach moderation. I agree that America is way too puritanical about this stuff.

[Mister D]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot


True. Alcohol is firmly rooted in western culture.

[Mister D]

Don't anyone get the idea that I frown on all drug use. I don't.

[spunkloaf]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot



I hit the nail on the head with my interpretation of America's attitude towards marijuana, didn't I?



Marijuana. It's illegal. Why? Because we say so. That's why. So shut the fuck up.


It seems that marijuana has also laid its roots down in our culture. They are not as deep as alcohol's. It will be interesting to see if the marijuana plant can prosper under the choking shade of the alcohol tree.

(That was a metaphor.)

[Mister D]

It will be interesting to see if the marijuana plant can prosper under the choking shade of the alcohol tree.

The man a freakin' poet... :'(

[GRUMPY]

do you believe that meth and speed are the same....


they are the same.

both right and wrong.....

[Captain Obvious]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot


True. Alcohol is firmly rooted in western culture.


In many cultures including the BC era.

I don't have anything against pot per se, it's just where I draw that line in the sand right now.

If pot were legalized at this point, it would be on the OK side.

It can and will be argued, doesn't matter to me but I firmly believe that legalizing pot opens the door to the next "legalize this" wave of social deterioration.

[spunkloaf]

do you believe that meth and speed are the same....


they are the same.

both right and wrong.....


You see? Drug education. It begins.

[Conley]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot


ok, and that's a decent point...gives me an idea for a new thread

[GRUMPY]

hehe, yes basically even if you allow for the difference in consumption due to marijuana being illegal, alcohol is far more damaging short and long term, causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care. i say legalize pot and tax it just like tobacco and booze.

now you are just making things up because clearly you have no idea as to the impact of marijuana should it be abused as broadly as alcohol.....but interesting in one breath you state that alcohol is "causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care" and in the next you propose legalizing another intoxicant the long term societal impact of which you cannot possibly know other than that it will not be good.....further i would point out to you that marijuana is broadly decriminalized already.....do you realize that in this post the most intelligent thing that you have contributed is "hehe".....

[spunkloaf]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot


True. Alcohol is firmly rooted in western culture.


In many cultures including the BC era.

I don't have anything against pot per se, it's just where I draw that line in the sand right now.

If pot were legalized at this point, it would be on the OK side.

It can and will be argued, doesn't matter to me but I firmly believe that legalizing pot opens the door to the next "legalize this" wave of social deterioration.


Now this is a discussion.

If other drugs were legalized in the coming decades, so what? The sooner we realize that criminalizing substances is only attacking a symptom and not the disease, the better off we are. The "disease" refers exactly to what you mentioned earlier: the common everyday American doofus. Educate that damn doofus. Introduce that doofus to some life-enriching experiences. The doofus may let go of the bottle, joint or needle.

[Captain Obvious]

I made a point earlier. Alcohol is rooted in tradition, industry and social acceptance. Yes there are social consequences with it, but it's not going anywhere.

Hence my "draw the line" concept.

Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot


True. Alcohol is firmly rooted in western culture.


In many cultures including the BC era.

I don't have anything against pot per se, it's just where I draw that line in the sand right now.

If pot were legalized at this point, it would be on the OK side.

It can and will be argued, doesn't matter to me but I firmly believe that legalizing pot opens the door to the next "legalize this" wave of social deterioration.


Now this is a discussion.

If other drugs were legalized in the coming decades, so what? The sooner we realize that criminalizing substances is only attacking a symptom and not the disease, the better off we are. The "disease" refers exactly to what you mentioned earlier: the common everyday American doofus. Educate that damn doofus. Introduce that doofus to some life-enriching experiences. The doofus may let go of the bottle, joint or needle.


Alcohol <=== [LINE] ===> pot

Learn it, know it, live it.

[Conley]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.

[spunkloaf]

hehe, yes basically even if you allow for the difference in consumption due to marijuana being illegal, alcohol is far more damaging short and long term, causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care. i say legalize pot and tax it just like tobacco and booze.

now you are just making things up because clearly you have no idea as to the impact of marijuana should it be abused as broadly as alcohol.....but interesting in one breath you state that alcohol is "causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care" and in the next you propose legalizing another intoxicant the long term societal impact of which you cannot possibly know other than that it will not be good.....further i would point out to you that marijuana is broadly decriminalized already.....do you realize that in this post the most intelligent thing that you have contributed is "hehe".....


I think you bring up a good point. Booze can really fuck you up. Pot can really get you high, possibly make you pass out. Mix the two and you get REALLY super fucked up. And your point of this story is that you can't trust people who get that fucked up. That brings us back to the question of where the problem actually is: in the drugs, or in the person?

My biggest and loudest point is that criminalization is not helping anything, it's only making a big chore out of trying to handle all these drug users. Even if the expensive war on drugs has made an impact on societal behavior, it has been minimal, and there's no evidence to suggest it has done really anything at all--other than overpopulating and incapacitating our jail systems.

[spunkloaf]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...

[Conley]

hehe, yes basically even if you allow for the difference in consumption due to marijuana being illegal, alcohol is far more damaging short and long term, causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care. i say legalize pot and tax it just like tobacco and booze.

now you are just making things up because clearly you have no idea as to the impact of marijuana should it be abused as broadly as alcohol.....but interesting in one breath you state that alcohol is "causing death across the country and at great cost to our society both in terms of law enforcement and health care" and in the next you propose legalizing another intoxicant the long term societal impact of which you cannot possibly know other than that it will not be good.....further i would point out to you that marijuana is broadly decriminalized already.....do you realize that in this post the most intelligent thing that you have contributed is "hehe".....


I think you bring up a good point. Booze can really fuck you up. Pot can really get you high, possibly make you pass out. Mix the two and you get REALLY super fucked up. And your point of this story is that you can't trust people who get that fucked up. That brings us back to the question of where the problem actually is: in the drugs, or in the person?

My biggest and loudest point is that criminalization is not helping anything, it's only making a big chore out of trying to handle all these drug users. Even if the expensive war on drugs has made an impact on societal behavior, it has been minimal, and there's no evidence to suggest it has done really anything at all--other than overpopulating and incapacitating our jail systems.

not quite true

it has done what it was intended to do, increase military spending exponentially and develop a whole new industry of corporations -- prisons for profit -- who get their money directly from our taxes via government contracts.

[Captain Obvious]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


More reason to put down the bong.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/declaration-independence-paper

[spunkloaf]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


More reason to put down the bong.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/declaration-independence-paper


Because monticello.org says "As far as we know, this is not true." I'm enlightened, thank you.

[Captain Obvious]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


More reason to put down the bong.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/declaration-independence-paper


Because monticello.org says "As far as we know, this is not true." I'm enlightened, thank you.


Good.

Now go forth and prosper with the newly acquired knowledge that I have provided to you.

[Conley]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?

[Captain Obvious]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?


They did love banging them some slave women.

[spunkloaf]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


More reason to put down the bong.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/declaration-independence-paper


Because monticello.org says "As far as we know, this is not true." I'm enlightened, thank you.


Good.

Now go forth and prosper with the newly acquired knowledge that I have provided to you.


Well....that sounds like great idea! YEAH! I'll go right to it. That's right, sir. Right to it indeed! Here I go!





http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/smoke/smiley-smoking-bong.gif

:D ;)

[spunkloaf]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?


I'm not sure why I pointed out just now what we do not know.

[Mister D]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?


I think he means that since it wasn't used as an intoxicant it's immaterial. Not sure though.

[Conley]

good enough...i think we all know enough about the fathers to know they weren't perfect citizens

[spunkloaf]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?


I think he means that since it wasn't used as an intoxicant it's immaterial. Not sure though.


Nothing's material that can't be intoxicant. I'm smoking my television right now. I just shot up on chopped liver.

(I'm kidding. KIDDING, I tell you!)

[Mister D]

Not sure what the whole snuff thing was about. I can't imagine that that was a pleasant experience.

[spunkloaf]

good enough...i think we all know enough about the fathers to know they weren't perfect citizens


Otherwise they would have foreseen this debate on drugs and decided to use the damn animal skin parchment instead.

[Mister D]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?


I think he means that since it wasn't used as an intoxicant it's immaterial. Not sure though.


Nothing's material that can't be intoxicant. I'm smoking my television right now. I just shot up on chopped liver.

(I'm kidding. KIDDING, I tell you!)


While live is high in essential vitamins it is also high in cholesterol. Careful, Spunk.

[spunkloaf]

Not sure what the whole snuff thing was about. I can't imagine that that was a pleasant experience.


Snuff? You mean chewing? I regards to chewing, some drugs are simply designed to be fads.

[Captain Obvious]

interestingly, marijuana was a common crop and plenty acceptable across all of western culture until the paper industry and dupont specifically decided to push for it to become illegal.


The founding fathers grew hemp. The Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper. No evidence that they smoked it...


So we don't know if they smoked or not...Point being?


I think he means that since it wasn't used as an intoxicant it's immaterial. Not sure though.


Nothing's material that can't be intoxicant. I'm smoking my television right now. I just shot up on chopped liver.

(I'm kidding. KIDDING, I tell you!)


Denis Leary - Drugs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68vv1sIyaMs#noexternalembed)

[Captain Obvious]

Youtube fucking blows.

[Mister D]

Not sure what the whole snuff thing was about. I can't imagine that that was a pleasant experience.


Snuff? You mean chewing? I regards to chewing, some drugs are simply designed to be fads.


I chew tobacco from time to time. That's quite satisfying. Puts hair on your chest too. Southern Pride preferably but Red Man will do. I don't like snuff though. It tastes like chemicals to me. Anyway, I mean the fine tobacco people used to snort back in the day.

[Conley]

dang you crazy fellas will snort anything ;)

i did use to enjoy dip / chaw / chew back in my younger days...

[spunkloaf]

Not sure what the whole snuff thing was about. I can't imagine that that was a pleasant experience.


Snuff? You mean chewing? I regards to chewing, some drugs are simply designed to be fads.


I chew tobacco from time to time. That's quite satisfying. Puts hair on your chest too. Southern Pride preferably but Red Man will do. I don't like snuff though. It tastes like chemicals to me. Anyway, I mean the fine tobacco people used to snort back in the day.


I tried chewing a couple times. The fiberglass gave me a rude rash inside my lip. It wasn't enjoyable for me, and by that time in my rebellion I was smoking cigarettes anyways so I didn't need the nicotine. My boss keeps a can of chew in his desk. He's the urban cowboy type though. I have a female cousin who chews. She got it from her dad, he died when she was young. Thinking of a woman chewing gives you the image that she must be disgusting. Probably fat and ugly, and maybe masculine. She is not though. Not at all.

[Mister D]

dang you crazy fellas will snort anything ;)

i did use to enjoy dip / chaw / chew back in my younger days...


When I was in my early teens I bought "snuff" (Skoal) and tried to snort it. :D I thought that's what you were supposed to do! The snuff you snort is old school.

[Conley]

:D

i was wondering wtf you were talking about ;)

understandable as you don't chew 'chew' either...

[Captain Obvious]

Uh oh - ADMIN's here, shhhh.

[Conley]

freakin mods >:( >:( >:(

[spunkloaf]

I don't get it. Would ADMIN censor this thread for real or are you just playing around?

[Conley]

I don't get it. Would ADMIN censor this thread for real or are you just playing around?


you know me spunk -- i was just messing around, causing trouble

[Mister D]

:D

i was wondering wtf you were talking about ;)

understandable as you don't chew 'chew' either...


You don't chew snuff (e.g. Skoal) but you do chew long leaf tobacco. Granted, you don't chew it like bubble gum unless your ready for a very unpleasant experience.

[Conley]

dang you crazy fellas will snort anything ;)

i did use to enjoy dip / chaw / chew back in my younger days...


When I was in my early teens I bought "snuff" (Skoal) and tried to snort it. :D I thought that's what you were supposed to do! The snuff you snort is old school.


case in point

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-110625-sniffing1-cannon.photoblog900.jpg


http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/25/6944055-could-you-stuff-this-much-tobacco-in-your-nose

:o :o :o

[spunkloaf]

I don't get it. Would ADMIN censor this thread for real or are you just playing around?


you know me spunk -- i was just messing around, causing trouble


lol kinda thought so but then the discussion stopped so it made me wonder. lol lollerskates roflcopter. (I actually did not laugh, out loud nor internally. I'm just in a ridiculous mood. Isn't it funny how easy it is to type something, and it loses it's meaning?)